14110Re: I don't see it.
- Sep 3, 2007
"Then please, imagine again the significance of these aspects of the present moon that resides out there in the cosmos in all its
brilliant luminosity, and see if you can see what I see. See if you see a ploy or not. - Steve"
Considering my very own experiences with the moon that sits out yonder, the simple request to consider as real, images formed by materialist means, should raise suspicion of falling under the forces of 'the ploy'.
These which are first photographs, then relayed through the internet via a humming (electric) computer could be known to definitely exist within Ahriman's reach. And so also, any contemplation regarding them a bearing witness to a supersensible reality. Thus again, vulnerability to 'a ploy'.
I think it's important to underline that much of what we wish to discuss 'openly', falls under the domain of the 'unspeakable'.
And there's a point worth noting in this, in that once the 'unspeakable' is raised onto the level of the collective soul fabric through speech, it becomes vulnerable to the illusory forces which lure the ego astray....
Steiner was very much conscious of this, and carried himself amidst 'it' magesticaly..
...Please forgive my past 'flighty' treatment of Anthroposophy, in the context that what I have in the past studied I have not properly retained to be able to refer back on it NOW, with authority, but I do know with some certainty to make a connection between the stages of the moon and the Parsival/Grail story.
In the past, what I studied served to deepen my soul forces; I held no ambition to act as a mouthpeice on behalf of Anthroposophy and this seemed important at the time, to keep outside interests at bay of my tender soul.. I was deeply involved in serious, individual soul development.
--- In email@example.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
> You know Carol, I always get the sense that you are trying to put me
> in my place with regard to anthroposophy and my apparently shallow
> interpretations. But it is important to know that I take
> anthroposophy into my organism in the form of thoughts, and let
> these thoughts about the living content of spiritual science work
> its way into the more sentiently subtle aspects. So, the living
> concept of the real existence of the Eighth Sphere is experienced as
> more than an abstraction.
> For me, writing on an internet list is where I can attempt to be as
> precise and efficient in my communication as possible. This is for
> the obvious reasons of time, and wanting to convey a message that
> can be read easily, and allows time for the inputs that we all want
> to make as a sharing of ideas across-the-board on the subjects of
> spiritual science, Rudolf Steiner, and other importnt issues.
> Thus, as a thinker I have studied spiritual science for twenty years
> now (1987-2007), and I read "World History in the Light of
> Anthroposophy" first, which I believe has been important to start
> with, as this was the public lecture course that Steiner gave at the
> time of the Christmas Conference of 1923/1924. So, thinking about
> spiritual science has been my intense activity over the course of
> this time. Not being clairvoyant, but only aspiring to work out of
> the ordinary mind of the oh-so human human, I have sought to make my
> progress in this work. And I do feel that it works, even to the
> point wherein the thinker that I am has penetrated into real
> supersensible substance. In fact, I know that I have, being the
> only one who really knows the force behind the words that I try to
> convey. If there was not the force of sincerity behind these words,
> could they ever have been written? Nobody who studies spiritual
> science could be characterized as shallow, superficial, or lacking
> in morality.
> For certainly moral imaginations can be found through and through
> this discourse on the Eighth Sphere, and the occult movement that
> seeks to make it their prized possession when the earth sphere comes
> to an end. So imagine what a torso would look like on Jupiter; just
> a torso that once contained a stomach, with no arms legs or head
> attached to it. And then imagine what a seven-headed beast with ten
> horns would look like, rhather than the profound and glorious image
> of Man Himself; glorious in all Its threefoldness.
> Then please, imagine again the significance of these aspects of the
> present moon that resides out there in the cosmos in all its
> brilliant luminosity, and see if you can see what I see. See if you
> see a ploy or not. - Steve
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "carol" organicethics@
> > It's not that I'm being inconvenienced, it's that I'm being pulled
> > many directions these days and not much energy and quiet time to
> > too many diverse outward responsibilities and inner
> > Steve wrote:
> > "And that is why the shadow exists around the physical Moon,
> rather than
> > the moon being fixed and luminous continuously. It is the Eighth
> > in its outward dimension that is visible as the so-called "phases
> of the
> > moon", which is nothing more than a product of clever ahrimanic
> > designed to obscure the true facts about this subject matter."
> > Through this statement, it would appear that you yourself have
> > victim to a clever Ahrimanic ploy to attach the 8th sphere to the
> > present heavenly body- moon. That is, it's etheric body and visible
> > shadow.
> > Through doing this, you attribute too much density to the 8th
> > (even though you point to the moon's etheric body), of which it's
> > subtance surely surrounds and penetrates us all, here on earth.
> You have
> > in a certain sense, given an animated caracter to the 8th sphere,
> > which is 'fantanstic' in quality, thus allowing the true volatile
> > a much 'safer' hidden haven.
> > Through proper spiritual investigation, you could discover this.
> > "The inner dimension is as previously described; the ability to
> > cultivate the organ of the old moon clairvoyance, which is quite
> easy to
> > do, in fact. And once one is in the realm of the ES a cult-like
> > is invoked due to the nature of the realm, and all that it took to
> > there by the aspirant. You see, only the aspirant into this realm
> > explain the karma of soul that brings them to this place."
> > From Steiner's point of reference, as he stood viewing the eigth
> > he was much more grounded that his contemporaries doing the same,
> > far more able to describe it using MORAL imaginatioons. Gee, I
> > why. It can't be such an easy thing to do, nor can one easily
> label the
> > ability to naviguate this dimension, a simple and risk free
> > "And it only makes sense that it would be the responsibility of
> > spiritual science to make it as clear and comprehensible as
> > Yes, and that's very nice example of internalised 'protestantism'
> if I
> > may say so.
> > But of course, at the same time, it seems that Anthroposophy's
> > science proves the only place where this subject can be justifiably
> > elaborated (in the open), though not that it would prove an easy
> > C.
> > --- In email@example.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "carol" organicethics@
> > > > This difficulty in pinpointing the 8th sphere illustrates to
> me an
> > > > ultimate 'ploy' put in place. It has everyone flip flopping
> > > > moral occult experience and clear day experience and having
> them get
> > > > mixed together.
> > > >
> > > > ...Personally, I find that this tendency has to overcome and
> > > > attention should direct itself toward the domain of the
> thinking 'I
> > > am'
> > > > experience; Christ can be know and where Sorat needs to be
> > > > discovered and Christianized.
> > > >
> > > > Same old same old, it seems.
> > >
> > > It sounds to me like you're being inconvenienced by this
> subject. I
> > > said in the beginning that it was complex. The Eighth Sphere has
> > > pinpointed with exactitude, so the only difficulty seems to be
> one of
> > > trying to understand the concept, function and purpose for the
> > > Sphere coming into being.
> > >
> > > First of all, there would be no 8th sphere at all if it weren't
> > the
> > > need to separate the 3rd sphere from the earth sphere still
> > > to it, thus allowing the 4th sphere to arise independent of the
> > > Moon. In order for this to happen, Jehova as the Seventh Sun
> > > goes with the Old Moon rather than the Sun, and thus has the
> power to
> > > effect the necessary neutralization of the Old Moon needed for
> > > disengagement of the Earth. This neutralization takes the
> > > form of mineralization, which is passed over to the Earth and
> the 4th
> > > sphere is formed as Earth-evolution.
> > >
> > > The Eighth Sphere is formed when Lucifer and Ahriman, as retarded
> > > spirits from the Old Moon evolution, are able to take some of the
> > > mineral substance away from the Spirits of Form who are
> > for
> > > transferring it to the Earth.
> > >
> > > Now, at the same time that the transfer is taking place from the
> > > to the Earth, all that exists on Earth is transferred to the
> Moon. And
> > > it is this transfer, from Earth to Moon, that creates the present
> > super-
> > > hardened and indestructible condition of the physical Moon.
> > >
> > > So, in seeing that the Old Moon was effectively sealed off and
> > > incapable of receiving back the mineral substance that they had
> > > sequestered for themselves, Lucifer and Ahriman had no choice
> but to
> > > put the mineral substance on the etheric body of the Moon. And
> that is
> > > why the shadow exists around the physical Moon, rather than the
> > > being fixed and luminous continuously. It is the Eighth Sphere
> in its
> > > outward dimension that is visible as the so-called "phases of the
> > > moon", which is nothing more than a product of clever ahrimanic
> > > thinking designed to obscure the true facts about this subject
> > >
> > > The inner dimension is as previously described; the ability to
> > > cultivate the organ of the old moon clairvoyance, which is quite
> > > to do, in fact. And once one is in the realm of the ES a cult-
> > > secrecy is invoked due to the nature of the realm, and all that
> > took
> > > to get there by the aspirant. You see, only the aspirant into
> > > realm can explain the karma of soul that brings them to this
> > >
> > > For normal humanity, evolving as mineralized humans for whom the
> ES is
> > > not only invisible, but also quite unknown and incompatible, it
> > becomes
> > > a matter of holding onto the precious mineral substance that
> makes up
> > > our head and the limbs that give us movement. And it is this that
> > > expresses the human being most; as the crowning achievement of
> > > creation. It is the Universal Human that the occultists want to
> > > down and destroy.
> > >
> > > So, this is an idea of the situation at hand, and why it seems
> to me
> > > that bringing the occult movement into the 20th century is
> > > And it only makes sense that it would be the responsibility of
> > > spiritual science to make it as clear and comprehensible as
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>