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11538Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • opetha
    Oct 4, 2006
      Hello Bradford

      OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
      ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
      psychological type.

      Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
      into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
      behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
      that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
      Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
      unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
      because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
      and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
      this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
      types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
      all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
      even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

      [I hope this comes out well in the post....]


      These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
      Jung says of your THINKING type:

      "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
      glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
      THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
      presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
      Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
      [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
      exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
      dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
      another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
      explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
      ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
      has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
      theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
      everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
      left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
      just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
      psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
      retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
      much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
      reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
      methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
      by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
      vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
      bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
      sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
      indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

      This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
      one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
      The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
      it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
      much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
      metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
      you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
      Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
      integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

      You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
      hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
      shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
      defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
      against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
      are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
      to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
      talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
      and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
      term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
      other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
      empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
      opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
      unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
      conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
      i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
      conscious complexes).

      A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
      shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
      an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
      NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
      consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
      himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
      him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
      than you want to heal, is this not so?

      Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
      thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
      IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
      before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
      the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
      extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
      true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
      its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
      that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
      cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

      I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
      equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
      natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
      symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
      These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
      and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
      linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
      sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
      provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
      scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
      school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
      and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
      glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
      SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
      baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

      I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
      might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
      the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
      of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
      advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
      because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
      not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
      affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
      too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
      rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
      emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
      I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

      With love,

      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
      > <snip>
      > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
      > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
      > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
      > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
      > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
      > > synchroncity.
      > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
      > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
      > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
      > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
      > hodgepodge.
      > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
      > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
      > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
      > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
      > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
      > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
      > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
      > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
      > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
      And I
      > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
      > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
      > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
      > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
      > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
      > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
      > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
      > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
      > Steve
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