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odd SIDS in bahorucoensis

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  • Zainal L. Haberham
    Damn... This week I moved the baby bahorucoensis tank to a better lit area. Today, both animals died, without any signs announcing this. Yesterday both were
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 4, 1998
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      Damn...
      This week I moved the baby bahorucoensis tank to a better lit area. Today,
      both animals died, without any signs announcing this. Yesterday both were
      eating and active, today they just dropped dead. Weird & spooky.

      I'm a bit lost as what may be the cause of this. The brighter light,
      stressing them out (as they are forest-floor dwellers)? The cold
      temperatures we had lately (meaning that their night temps were 20 C, and
      maybe this should have been higher?). The moving of the tank?

      Hmm....
      Any ideas?
      Zainal L. Haberham, Anole hobbyist & neuro-electrophysiologist
      Majubastraat 87, NL-1092 KE Amsterdam, The Netherlands
      E-mail: palardis@...
      Knight anole home page: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4489/anolis.htm
      Please use the following address when sending large attachments:
      haberham@...
    • Andreas Hungerbuehler
      ... Hi Zainal I m sorry for you about the lost of your bahorucoensis. It s quite possible that the reason of this accident has been the brighter lite in your
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 5, 1998
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        >From: "Zainal L. Haberham" <palardis@...>
        >
        >Damn...
        >This week I moved the baby bahorucoensis tank to a better lit area. Today,
        >both animals died, without any signs announcing this. Yesterday both were
        >eating and active, today they just dropped dead. Weird & spooky.
        >
        >I'm a bit lost as what may be the cause of this. The brighter light,
        >stressing them out (as they are forest-floor dwellers)? The cold
        >temperatures we had lately (meaning that their night temps were 20 C, and
        >maybe this should have been higher?). The moving of the tank?
        >
        >Hmm....
        >Any ideas?
        >Zainal L. Haberham, Anole hobbyist & neuro-electrophysiologist
        >Majubastraat 87, NL-1092 KE Amsterdam, The Netherlands
        >E-mail: palardis@...
        >Knight anole home page: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4489/anolis.htm
        >Please use the following address when sending large attachments:
        >haberham@...
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        Hi Zainal

        I'm sorry for you about the lost of your bahorucoensis. It's quite possible
        that the reason of this accident has been the brighter lite in your tank.
        I've made similar experiences about my own bahorucoensis. I've got
        different animals: CB's from the Zoo in Zurich. And wild captives from
        Cuba. Especialy the CB's where extremely shy if the brightness in the tank
        was to high. Because of this i covered the tank partialy with a normal
        sheet of paper for getting shadier parts. The animals reactet immediately
        and explicit less shy than before.
        The "stress factor" anyway it's a big problem with about te bahorucoensis.
        Once, by a hair i lost a female by spraying the terrarium. At the moment
        witch the water reached her, she reactet verry panicaly and at the end she
        feld on to the ground and twitched like in cramps around. But i had verry
        luck and she recovered her after a few minutes. I detected that the reason
        of this violent reaction was the temperature of the water. Till there i
        always used room temperatured water ( and the temerature in my terrarium
        room is always around 25�C ). But in the spraying distance of about 30cm,
        the animales sense this as verry cold. Now i always preheat the water on
        40�C (!) for all the animals. Especialy the bahorucoensis react now quite
        relaxed when spraying them. But other Anoles and Phelsumes do also. Al of
        them don't run away anymore when i'm showering the terrariums. The
        allisonis even realy enjoy it to sit in the warm "rain".

        I hope this is a little help for you.

        Andi Hungerb�hler
      • Thomas Lakowitz
        ... I ve heard of peolple holding an Agalychnis-frog in their open palm. The frog jumps away and when it lands its dead. Some kind of stress has been suggested
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 5, 1998
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          >Damn...
          >This week I moved the baby bahorucoensis tank to a better lit area. Today,
          >both animals died, without any signs announcing this. Yesterday both were
          >eating and active, today they just dropped dead. Weird & spooky.


          I've heard of peolple holding an Agalychnis-frog in their open palm. The frog jumps away and when it lands its dead. Some kind of stress has been suggested to explain this. Maybe they experienced it as a stressful experience although you didn't see it as that.
          >
          >I'm a bit lost as what may be the cause of this. The brighter light,
          >stressing them out (as they are forest-floor dwellers)? The cold
          >temperatures we had lately (meaning that their night temps were 20 C, and
          >maybe this should have been higher?). The moving of the tank?


          Maybe the combination worked in a stressful way.

          I myself killed a baby garmani this weekend. As it jumped out of the hatchling box and crlawled under my foot as I was kneeling down. I lifted myself in the most upward direction but just as I moved I felt something under my foot being squeezed. Of course there wasn't much to do...

          /Thomas
        • Johanson Jens
          Hi Z. Are you sure that you mailed the correct adress. I have a major host-look-up-failure when I try to visit the site i.e. the server is not just down. /Jens
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 1998
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            Hi Z.

            Are you sure that you mailed the correct adress. I have a major
            host-look-up-failure when I try to visit the site i.e. the server is not
            just down.

            /Jens


            The website is at
            http://www.anole.nlights.net The address for sending in pics etc. is
            anole@....
          • Zainal L. Haberham
            ... frog jumps away and when it lands its dead. Some kind of stress has been suggested to explain this. Maybe they experienced it as a stressful experience
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 6, 1998
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              At 10:16 05/10/1998 +0100, you wrote:
              >From: "Thomas Lakowitz" <anolis@...>
              >I've heard of peolple holding an Agalychnis-frog in their open palm. The
              frog jumps away and when it lands its dead. Some kind of stress has been
              suggested to explain this. Maybe they experienced it as a stressful
              experience although you didn't see it as that.

              Yes, frogs seem very peculiar in that. This guy I know went to Surinam
              (he's the same guy who brought back the A. nitens that Axel now has), and
              some of the frogs he wanted to take pics of, instantly died when he put
              them on a tree trunk. Heart attack or something.

              >I myself killed a baby garmani this weekend. As it jumped out of the
              hatchling box and crlawled under my foot as I was kneeling down. I lifted
              myself in the most upward direction but just as I moved I felt something
              under my foot being squeezed. Of course there wasn't much to do...

              Yikes. I accidentally stood on a Phelsuma baby once, and I know how bad
              that feels.

              Later,
              Z.


              Zainal L. Haberham, Anole hobbyist & neuro-electrophysiologist
              Majubastraat 87, NL-1092 KE Amsterdam, The Netherlands
              E-mail: palardis@...
              Knight anole home page: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4489/anolis.htm
            • Zainal L. Haberham
              ... This might be it....coming to think of it, the last time I sprayed them I may very well have used cold tap water , and over the last few days the water
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 6, 1998
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                At 10:37 05/10/1998 +0200, you wrote:
                >From: Andreas Hungerbuehler <andreas.hungerbuehler@...>
                >Hi Zainal
                >luck and she recovered her after a few minutes. I detected that the reason
                >of this violent reaction was the temperature of the water. Till there i
                >always used room temperatured water ( and the temerature in my terrarium
                >room is always around 25�C ). But in the spraying distance of about 30cm,
                >the animales sense this as verry cold.

                This might be it....coming to think of it, the last time I sprayed them I
                may very well have used cold tap water , and over the last few days the
                water temperature has dropped significantly. And of course, being so small,
                those babies might very well have been temperature shocked. Dang! I can
                kick myself for being this stupid.

                Now i always preheat the water on
                >40�C (!) for all the animals. Especialy the bahorucoensis react now quite
                >relaxed when spraying them. But other Anoles and Phelsumes do also.

                Just out of curiosity, which other species do you have? I take it you are
                new to the list (welcome, BTW!), so you may not know this, but list member
                Bryan Kemp has opened a web site where you can deposit pictures, care
                sheets, et cetera. So, by all means check it out! The website is at
                http://www.anole.nlights.net The address for sending in pics etc. is
                anole@....

                Al of
                >them don't run away anymore when i'm showering the terrariums. The
                >allisonis even realy enjoy it to sit in the warm "rain".
                >
                >I hope this is a little help for you.

                Yes, it is. Now I'll go kick myself some more.

                Later,
                Z.



                Zainal L. Haberham, Anole hobbyist & neuro-electrophysiologist
                Majubastraat 87, NL-1092 KE Amsterdam, The Netherlands
                E-mail: palardis@...
                Knight anole home page: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4489/anolis.htm
              • Thomas Lakowitz
                ... I met the author of the book on Geckos, Herman Seufer, a few years ago and he told me oabout some gecko living in Bolivia in the leaflitter that would die
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 6, 1998
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                  >Yes, frogs seem very peculiar in that. This guy I know went to Surinam
                  >(he's the same guy who brought back the A. nitens that Axel now has), and
                  >some of the frogs he wanted to take pics of, instantly died when he put
                  >them on a tree trunk. Heart attack or something.


                  I met the author of the book on Geckos, Herman Seufer, a few years ago and he told me oabout some gecko living in Bolivia in the leaflitter that would die if photographed... I never saw any gecko while visiting the jungles there and he never told me what genus it would be...
                  >
                  >>I myself killed a baby garmani this weekend. As it jumped out of the
                  >hatchling box and crlawled under my foot as I was kneeling down. I lifted
                  >myself in the most upward direction but just as I moved I felt something
                  >under my foot being squeezed. Of course there wasn't much to do...
                  >
                  >Yikes. I accidentally stood on a Phelsuma baby once, and I know how bad
                  >that feels.


                  Makes you feel to BIG to handle such creatures :-)

                  /Thomas
                • Thomas Lakowitz
                  ... They live close to the forest floor. I remember living in the rainforest as it rained (every second day) and the water seemd pretty cool as it passed
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 6, 1998
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                    >This might be it....coming to think of it, the last time I sprayed them I
                    >may very well have used cold tap water , and over the last few days the
                    >water temperature has dropped significantly. And of course, being so small,
                    >those babies might very well have been temperature shocked. Dang! I can
                    >kick myself for being this stupid.


                    They live close to the forest floor. I remember living in the rainforest as it rained (every second day) and the water seemd pretty cool as it passed through all the leaves on its way down(ok, not tap water temp., but a little cooler than tropical temp.). Actually it had to rain for about half an hour before the rain broke through the canopy ! Think about that for a while. That's how dense those forests are.


                    /Thomas
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