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Re: Anolis Cuveri

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  • Father Alejandro J. Sanchez Munoz
    Pay special interest to the first eggs that are laid, since
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 1999
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      <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Pay special interest to
      <br>the first eggs that are laid, since they may have been fertilized by
      an
      <br>unrelated male, providing you with at least some genetic variation
      in
      <br>future animals. Given that it's still in the middle of breading season,
      the
      <br>first egg should be laid within days or so.</blockquote>
          Actually, I'm pretty sure any eggs the female would
      lay would not be this same male's. I captured them a couple hundred meters
      apart, in prime habitat (so surely they were many more individuals in between
      these two, in the forest).
      <p>    The female is a youngish individual, so the first
      egg or two that it lays might be... what is it that you call it, "duds"?
      When I collected her, she didn't look obviously pregnant, but that doesn't
      mean she isn't.
      <p>    The guy who took me to the place that day has witnessed
      <i>cuvieri</i>'s
      egg-laying behavior. They lay the egg FIRST and THEN excavate a hole, maneuvering
      the egg on the ground with the tip of the snout while shoveling dirt aside,
      all at the same time.
      <p>    The <i>cristatellus</i> I once saw laying an egg
      made the hole first, then turned around, laid the egg, and covered the
      hole.
      <p>    The female <i>cuvieri</i> I collected at night sleeping
      at the end of a very thin, dangling vine, on a tree by a roadside, about
      7-8 feet from the pavement.
      <br> 
      <blockquote TYPE=CITE>It would be very interesting to hear if you will
      <br>also find that the young will grow into differently colored adults
      (most of
      <br>them green, but some of them brown).</blockquote>
          Yes, and in any case neonates and small juveniles look
      nothing like the adults. They are cream colored, with brown and black blotches.
      Those I've seen stay close to (and even on) the ground in their natural
      habitat, avoiding the adults.
      <p>    If you ever get any newborns, take them out of of
      the parents' tank faster than you can say "<i>Anolis cuvieri</i>". The
      only value parents lay on their offspring comes in calories.
      <p>In Domino,
      <br>    Father Sánchez</html>
    • Zainal L. Haberham
      ... Ah, that s a pity then... When I ... Indeed. The guy who took me to the place that day has witnessed ... OK...interesting what you write about cuvieri. Is
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 1999
        At 08:53 01/09/1999 -0400, you wrote:
        > Actually, I'm pretty sure any eggs the female would lay would not be
        >this same male's. I captured them a couple hundred meters apart, in prime
        >habitat (so surely they were many more individuals in between these two, in
        >the forest). The female is a youngish individual, so the first egg or
        >two that it lays might be... what is it that you call it, "duds"?

        Ah, that's a pity then...

        When I
        >collected her, she didn't look obviously pregnant, but that doesn't mean
        >she isn't.

        Indeed.

        The guy who took me to the place that day has witnessed
        >cuvieri's egg-laying behavior. They lay the egg FIRST and THEN excavate a
        >hole, maneuvering the egg on the ground with the tip of the snout while
        >shoveling dirt aside, all at the same time. The cristatellus I once saw
        >laying an egg made the hole first, then turned around, laid the egg, and
        >covered the hole.

        OK...interesting what you write about cuvieri. Is this from a single
        observation, or would this be normal for them? Equestris and baleatus do it
        like cristatellus. (Actually, equestris I have captured on film....the egg
        laying sequence is on one of the pix of A. equestris thomasi on the ACG site.
        BTW, father S�nchez and others with special interest in giant anoles...I
        have put links to pictures of other (Cuban, mainly) giants among the
        pictures. Included are some interesting luteogularis ssp., as well as three
        of the four recognized Chamaeleolis sp.

        > Yes, and in any case neonates and small juveniles look nothing like the
        >adults. They are cream colored, with brown and black blotches. Those I've
        >seen stay close to (and even on) the ground in their natural habitat,
        >avoiding the adults.

        Yes indeed...George Gorman and Juan Riv�ro once sent a juvenile female to
        Leo somewhere in the 50s or 60s, and Leo published this ontogenetic color
        change with color pictures, in an Austrian hobbyist journal. Gorman
        actually once made a reference to that paper in a scientific journal, which
        is a rare occasion...

        If you ever get any newborns, take them out of of
        >the parents' tank faster than you can say "Anolis cuvieri". The only value
        >parents lay on their offspring comes in calories.

        Interesting that you mention that...Robin Andrews (I think) once tested
        that with the animals in Riv�ro's greenhouse. Cuvieri were offered anoles
        on a stick, either unrelated species or cuvieri young. In those cases, the
        cuvieri refused to eat their own young, but rapidly ate the others (again,
        Jarrod, this is what may happen to your leachi if you don't take it out).
        Andrews suspected that the striking color pattern of the young prevented
        the adults from eating them.
        Gorman later reacted on that paper, and stated that the coloration of the
        young is probably just cryptic (in most giant anoles, the young are colored
        far more cryptical than the adults), and that Andrews' observations (which
        weren't statistically verified) were probably just coincidence.
        From personal experience, I can confirm that at least equestris reacts on
        few prey so vigorously as on their own young (and similar-sized anoles),
        and if they spot them before you do, there is no way on earth that you can
        save them.
        --------------
        Zainal L. Haberham
        Anolis Contact Group (ACG) web guy
        NL-1092KE87 Amsterdam, the Netherlands

        E-mail: z.l.haberham@...
        palardis@...

        Anolis equestris site:
        http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4489/anolis.htm
        ACG information site: http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/drongo/177/anole.htm
        ---------------
      • Father Alejandro J. Sanchez Munoz
        OK...interesting what you write about cuvieri. Is this from a
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1, 1999
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          <blockquote TYPE=CITE>OK...interesting what you write about cuvieri. Is
          this from a single
          <br>observation, or would this be normal for them?</blockquote>
              My friend has watched the event a couple of times.
          <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Equestris and baleatus do it
          <br>like cristatellus. (Actually, equestris I have captured on film....the
          egg
          <br>laying sequence is on one of the pix of A. equestris thomasi on the
          ACG site.
          <br>BTW, father Sánchez and others with special interest in giant
          anoles...I
          <br>have put links to pictures of other (Cuban, mainly) giants among the
          <br>pictures. Included are some interesting luteogularis ssp., as well
          as three
          <br>of the four recognized Chamaeleolis sp.</blockquote>
              Yes, I saw them. Nice pictures.
          <blockquote TYPE=CITE> 
          <br>Interesting that you mention that...Robin Andrews (I think) once tested
          <br>that with the animals in Rivéro's greenhouse. Cuvieri were offered
          anoles
          <br>on a stick, either unrelated species or cuvieri young. In those cases,
          the
          <br>cuvieri refused to eat their own young, but rapidly ate the others
          (again,
          <br>Jarrod, this is what may happen to your leachi if you don't take it
          out).
          <br>Andrews suspected that the striking color pattern of the young prevented
          <br>the adults from eating them.
          <br>Gorman later reacted on that paper, and stated that the coloration
          of the
          <br>young is probably just cryptic (in most giant anoles, the young are
          colored
          <br>far more cryptical than the adults), and that Andrews' observations
          (which
          <br>weren't statistically verified) were probably just coincidence.</blockquote>
              I also have a feeling that that was mere coincidence.
          The neonates are next to impossible to see unless they move. It is easier
          to spot an adult against a background of green (and THAT'S difficult) than
          it is to spot a neonate against a background of leaf-litter.
          <p>    I must say that I never fed juveniles to my former
          pet <i>cuvieri</i>, so I'm not a witness to the fact, but wouldn't doubt
          that at least occassionally they turn cannibalistic.
          <p>Father Sánchez</html>
        • Molly4616@xxx.xxx
          Thanks for all the useful info everyone. I don t think I will take a chance with the young:) How deep of a hole will they dig? The female ate for the 1st
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 1, 1999
            Thanks for all the useful info everyone. I don't think I will take a
            chance with the young:) How deep of a hole will they dig? The female ate
            for the 1st time i've seen yesterday. The male isn't eating that I know of
            yet but I don't see them all day. The female is much more energetic than the
            male though. I took them to the vet they were both fine except the male did
            have a type of nematode in that bump on his chin. He gave me a dose of
            antibiotics and had me give it to the anoles. He was afraid they would bite
            him:) I'll keep everyone updated on them. Thanks a lot
            Jarrod Beers
          • Father Alejandro J. Sanchez Munoz
            How deep of a hole will they dig?    
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 2, 1999
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              <blockquote TYPE=CITE>How deep of a hole will they dig?</blockquote>
                  Just a few inches deep.
              <blockquote TYPE=CITE>The female ate
              <br>for the 1st time i've seen yesterday.  The male isn't eating that
              I know of
              <br>yet but I don't see them all day.  The female is much more energetic
              than the
              <br>male though.</blockquote>
                  Giant anoles spend most of their time doing absolutely
              nothing but moving their eyes. For as long as you don't see the male loosing
              any weight, you can safely assume is eating.
              <p>    Remember to give privacy to you anoles. That would
              entice to eat, too.
              <p>Father Sánchez</html>
            • Zainal L. Haberham
              ... Another trick: feed them just after lights out. Newly caught anoles tend to bee too shy to eat during lights on, probably because they fear the risk is too
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 2, 1999
                At 08:51 02/09/99 -0400, you wrote:
                > Giant anoles spend most of their time doing absolutely nothing but
                >moving their eyes. For as long as you don't see the male loosing any
                >weight, you can safely assume is eating. Remember to give privacy to
                >you anoles. That would entice to eat, too.

                Another trick: feed them just after lights out. Newly caught anoles tend to
                bee too shy to eat during lights on, probably because they fear the risk is
                too great that they are seen and caught again. However, in the dark (or in
                severely subdued light) they feel safer, and eat.


                Zainal L. Haberham
                Dept. Laboratory Animal Science, div. anaesthesiology
                Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Utrecht University
                PO Box 80.166, NL-3508TD, Utrecht, The Netherlands.
                E-mail: haberham@.../palardis@...
                Private: NL-1092KE\87, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

                http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/drongo/177/pix.htm
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