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Re: Lovemygreen

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  • isaacsfate
    Hi Lovemygreen: When I called you immature, I meant in reasoning ability. But I hope you realize that I consider most of the people in this club
    Message 1 of 6476 , Aug 2, 2000
      Hi Lovemygreen:<br><br>When I called you
      immature, I meant in reasoning ability. But I hope you
      realize that I consider most of the people in this club
      mentally immature compared to me. This includes most of
      the animal rights people in here too. You are of
      course welcome to be here, despite your simplicity. You
      shouldn't get mad just because I point that out. I, on the
      other hand, have been kicked out of this club more
      times than I can count, so we could extend from that
      that I am much less welcome than you are. <br><br>That
      aside, I will address your last message. I appreciate
      your taking the time to verbalize where you feel we
      disagree this time. I am amazed that you are sticking to
      your original platform of moral reasoning even after I
      aptly countered it. Look, you are still saying that ALL
      humans are useful to society, and NO humans are. Fine,
      so you think a drunk person is useful. Fine, you
      think a pig is not (though despite your agricultural
      background it literally frightens me that you don't think
      pigs have the capacity to feel affection). But are you
      saying you cannot think of any other examples that YOU
      would feel violate your generalizations? You are saying
      that no human on earth is useless, and no animal is
      useful? Don't you realize how ridiculous this sounds? And
      on top of that, you still have not even started to
      defend your basis for saying that usefulness to society
      is a reasonable scale in which to judge who has
      rights and who doesn't? <br><br>If you read my last
      message again, I was not advocating freeing all the
      livestock. Cows do not know how to live in the wild, as they
      have been domesticated by years of breeding.
      Therefore, it would be our responsibility to take care of
      them in animal sanctuaries until they died of old age.
      Our society is still making reparations for human
      slavery- reparations must always follow institutionalized
      exploitation. Not to make them is irresponsible. And here
      again, it literally frightens me that you, who seem to
      have experience around farm animals, think a cow is
      better off slaughtered than cared for until old age in a
      enriched environment, even if old age might be sometimes
      accompanied by disease and pain. <br><br>Honestly, listen to
      yourself. In the course of your last message alone, you
      claimed that pigs cannot feel or show affection, and that
      the most merciful treatment for a cow is to kill her
      instead of taking care of her and giving her enriched
      surroundings for her whole life. Can you possibly feel these
      things? If so, the half tongue-in-cheek generalizations I
      made against animal science majors are more realistic
      than even I could have thought possible in my worse
      dreams... this is really terrifying!<br><br>Isaac
    • whitewolf2025
      Here s a new debate topic - animal rights v. animal welfare. Excuse me if it s already been taken. I m just bored and need something to do. Personally, I
      Message 6476 of 6476 , Feb 6, 2002
        Here's a new debate topic - animal rights v.
        animal welfare. Excuse me if it's already been taken.
        I'm just bored and need something to do. Personally,
        I support animal welfare. I think groups like PETA
        and HSUS definately need to sort out some problems -
        don't think I that I think adopting animals and
        everything is wrong, because I adopted a dog from our local
        shelter last Feb., but look at the statistics (found from
        <a href=http://littlegems.hypermart.net/1/ARA.html target=new>http://littlegems.hypermart.net/1/ARA.html</a>) - PETA sent Rodney Coronado's "support
        committee", the guy who bombed the animal research place,
        $45,200, which is 15 times as much as they donate to
        animal shelters every year. Less than .03% ($5,000)of
        PETA's $13.4 million dollar budget was given to shelter
        spay/neuter programs in the US. 90% of PETA's donation money
        was spent on it's new satellite offices in Germany.
        HSUS does not operate a single shelter, even though
        they have a 40 million dollar budget.That's enough to
        operate at least one good shelter in every state, plus
        they'd have enough money left over to feed, spay,
        neuter, and save the lives of thousands of dogs and cats
        every year. But they did manage to pay it's president
        and vice president a combined amount of $446,882.
        Something seems a little fishy, maybe they're really not
        devoted to animal rights, just lots of $?<br>Whitewolf
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