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Re: Aaron to give Angelical Language Workshop

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  • mpam76895
    -- ... what is the focus here; is the language like any other in application? was pondering (sound) wave patterns and analysis. in this, i d have to think
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 6, 2009
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      --
      > >
      > > Aaron Leitch will present an introductory workshop in John Dee's
      > > Angelical. Now, for the first time in four hundred years, the
      > > phonetic keys recorded in Dee's journals have been deciphered, and
      > > the Language can finally be understood in its true form! Aaron's
      > > workshop will outline its basic principals, phonology and even how
      > to
      > > *properly* translate English text into Angelical.
      > >
      > > Bring pen and paper! And forget everything you thought you knew
      > > about Dee's "Enochian" Language!
      >

      >>>>> might you have some notes, morsels or drafts to post? what's the gist of your understanding of the phenomenon?
      what is the focus here; is the language like any other in application?
      was pondering (sound) wave patterns and analysis. in this, i'd have to think correct pronunciation is mandatory - if you're looking into the system('s universe) itself.
      years ago in the news, there was a story about a blind person who could make free calls to anywhere by whistling into the handset, mimicking the tones...


      did you find any applicable significance to the individual (a-phonetic) letter's names?

      recall how the words and names were delivered backwards. this conjunct the idea of anti elements... mirrored symmetry = as within, so without. yet, the multiversal manifestations are actually asymmetical (look at a face). proper term being chiral.
    • Aaron
      ... Sure - check out this link for my essay A Pronunciation Guide to the Angelical Language of Dr. John Dee :
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 9, 2009
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        --- In angelical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com, "mpam76895" <mpam76895@...> wrote:

        > >>>>> might you have some notes, morsels or drafts to post? what's the gist of your understanding of the phenomenon?

        Sure - check out this link for my essay "A Pronunciation Guide to the Angelical Language of Dr. John Dee":

        http://kheph777.tripod.com/art_angelical_pronunciation.pdf

        You can also see the files section of this Group for my Angelical Pronunciation Key as well as my Angelical Keys Cross-Reference- which presents the 48 Calls in their fully corrected form.

        All of these are really just excerpts from my forthcoming book on the subject ("The Angelical Language: The History, Mythology and an Encyclopedic Lexicon of the Tongue of Angels" - in two volumes). In fact, the book just made it through the first major hurtles of the publishing process, so it is now slated to come out sometime next year. In the spring I hope. :)

        I don't approach the subject with any real dogma, per se. I leave it up to the reader to choose whether they believe the Language is truly the Tongue of Angels, or if they believe it is a constructed language - because either way it is a fascinating linguistic subject. :)

        My main contributions to the study are:

        1) I have discovered that Dee's Angelical is pronounced according to the rules of Early Modern English (the language of Shakespeare and King James) - with some inclusions from Old English as well. That discovery led to my second contribution:

        2) I have finally deciphered the pronunciation notes that Dee included with the words in his journals. I am confident that my pronunciations of the words are the closest we've yet seen to what Dee himself heard when he recorded them. And that leads us to:

        3) I have created an entirely new pronunciation key for the language - one that is actually *useful* where it comes to speaking the words out loud. So far, every key I have seen offers pronunciations for the *letters* of the alphabet- which I have never found useful. My key offers phonetic pronunciations for the *syllables* that make up the words.

        And of course, number 4 would be the Angelical Lexicon itself - which is quite massive and comprehensive. It is several times the size of Laycock's Dictionary, without drawing words from later sources like the Golden Dawn or Crowley. Plus, it is an *encyclopedic lexicon*, rather than a simple alphabetical listing of words. Each entry includes the word and its definition, all related words, the sentences in which they are used, Dee's pronunciation notes (with annotations), my own pronunciation notes and even the word written out in Angelical characters. I also include notes for each word that explains the circumstances under which it was received, anything the Angels or Dee had to say about it as well as my own findings.

        > what is the focus here; is the language like any other in application?

        It basically works similar to ancient languages such as Egyptian or Biblical Hebrew. That is- small root words (usually two or three letters in length), with compounding and affixing used to indicate more sophisticated concepts. The use of pronouns is limited and articles (such as "the", "a", etc) are nearly non-existent. The "English Senses" of the words recorded by Dee are poetic elaborations of an otherwise simple text. (I illustrate this in the Angelical Keys Cross-Reference.) If you've ever studied English "translations" of ancient texts- such as the Tao De Ching- you'll have an idea of what I'm saying here. :):)

        > years ago in the news, there was a story about a blind person who could make free calls to anywhere by whistling into the handset, mimicking the tones...
        >

        I could see someone mimicking the tones and making calls without actually dialing. I can't see how that would make the calls free, though... lol

        > did you find any applicable significance to the individual (a-phonetic) letter's names?
        >

        Not as of yet. I do know they are stand-alone words, as many of them appear in the Book of Loagaeth and some other Angelical texts that Dee recorded. However, no translations for them have yet been discovered.

        > recall how the words and names were delivered backwards.

        That is actually something of a myth. The first three Calls were transmitted backward, letter by letter - but Dee finally requested a quicker method of transmission, so the rest of the Calls came in a forward fashion. Plus, the entirety of the Book of Loagaeth came in a forward fashion.

        Dee was told, however, that Angelical properly runs from right to left - after the manner of Hebrew. This is most likely why the first Calls appeared to come "backwards" from our Western perspective.

        LVX
        Aaron
      • Mark Jones
        ... My key offers phonetic ... The English Senses of the words ... applications. You are stressing the point of syntax based language. My perusals into other
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 9, 2009
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          > 1) I have discovered that Dee's Angelical is pronounced
          > according to the rules of Early Modern English (the language
          > of Shakespeare and King James) - with some inclusions from
          > Old English as well. That discovery led to my second
          > contribution:

          >>>>> Thanks for the informative response. I wonder how significant it may be that Dee (et al) were responsible for creating modern english?


          My key offers phonetic
          > pronunciations for the *syllables* that make up the words.

          >>>>>> Finally.

          > And of course, number 4 would be the Angelical Lexicon
          > itself - which is quite massive and comprehensive. It is
          > several times the size of Laycock's Dictionary, without
          > drawing words from later sources like the Golden Dawn or
          > Crowley. Plus, it is an *encyclopedic lexicon*, rather than
          > a simple alphabetical listing of words. Each entry includes
          > the word and its definition, all related words, the
          > sentences in which they are used, Dee's pronunciation
          > notes (with annotations) , my own pronunciation notes and
          > even the word written out in Angelical characters. I also
          > include notes for each word that explains the circumstances
          > under which it was received, anything the Angels or Dee had
          > to say about it as well as my own findings.

          >>>>> Quite a job.

          The "English Senses" of the words
          > recorded by Dee are poetic elaborations of an otherwise
          > simple text. (I illustrate this in the Angelical Keys
          > Cross-Reference. ) If you've ever studied English
          > "translations" of ancient texts- such as the Tao
          > De Ching- you'll have an idea of what I'm saying
          > here. :):)

          >>>>>> Yes. I was referring to other as yet unknown or forgotten
          applications. You are stressing the point of syntax based language. My perusals into other systems, conjuct aether physics,
          makes me speculate other approaches. More along the lines of shall we say, coordinates and trajectories. A kind of informational and or scalar wave transducer. Something akin to Rowe's experiments I guess.
          A general hunch is that the table of nalvage and the elemental king's spirals are informational-ized torsion field generators. The sigil being a counterpoint, not necessarily acting as a ground. But the (resultant, application of) Angelic (linear interpretations) is itself secondary.
          I'm obviously a parsec or 10 from tradition, if not reality. But there may be a way to use the system without syntaxed language. What I'm getting with my fun experiments in 3D programs is it's (possibly) geometry (or conducive digital/Symbolic "structures" in tandem) and modulated scalar flow.
          Perhaps not the Platonics as I at first thought. Although,
          that may be a "missing" primer... one of those things "taken for granted" as we find in other grimoires.


          > I could see someone mimicking the tones and making calls
          > without actually dialing. I can't see how that would
          > make the calls free, though... lol

          >>>> Forgot about that detail! It was in the 70's so perhaps there was a way. If I recall he made them from public pay phones. He was arrested, so he was making some kind of, progress.


          > Not as of yet. I do know they are stand-alone words, as
          > many of them appear in the Book of Loagaeth and some other
          > Angelical texts that Dee recorded. However, no translations
          > for them have yet been discovered.

          >>>>> Tsk. Could be fluff, if not math. But I'd like to fancy that this aspect ties into the ideas above. There's research like S. Tenen's revealing how ancient letters (reflected shapes of) naturally occur within the tetrahedron. Altho, it seems to actually be the torus. Perhaps both and that would be cosmic corroboration. All this research is seemingly more visual and beyond words...but they are modulators.


          > That is actually something of a myth. The first three
          > Calls were transmitted backward, letter by letter - but Dee
          > finally requested a quicker method of transmission, so the
          > rest of the Calls came in a forward fashion. Plus, the
          > entirety of the Book of Loagaeth came in a forward fashion.
          >
          > Dee was told, however, that Angelical properly runs from
          > right to left - after the manner of Hebrew. This is most
          > likely why the first Calls appeared to come
          > "backwards" from our Western perspective.

          >>>> Drat. That trashes another speculation!

          Thanks for your time, Mark
        • jen
          -- A word on Liber Logaeth. When Dee was receiving the last piece of instruction the first part, the final instructions were to write the book backwards. My
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 13, 2009
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            -- A word on Liber Logaeth. When Dee was receiving the last piece of instruction the first part, the final instructions were to write the book backwards. My initial thought was that the book should be written with the last calls given as being first. .... That order applies for other areas as well so its consistent with the information I've picked up already but I hadn't seen where they said it should be worked like hebrew. Is that in Cassaubon? ( I'm not all the way through the book yet because I'm working things ritually as I go )
          • Aaron
            ... Yes - that instruction was given by Galvah as she delivered the final leaf of Loagaeth. Many have assumed this means the last Angelical Call should be
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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              --- In angelical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com, "jen" <jennyksargent@...> wrote:
              >
              > -- A word on Liber Logaeth. When Dee was receiving the last piece of instruction the first part, the final instructions were to write the book backwards. My initial thought was that the book should be written with the last calls given as being first. ....

              Yes - that instruction was given by Galvah as she delivered the final leaf of Loagaeth. Many have assumed this means the last Angelical Call should be first, etc - but in fact She was merely reminding Dee of the instruction to write the book "after the manner of Hebrew"- which had been told to him during the initial transmission of Loagaeth (see the 5 Books of the Mysteries).

              >That order applies for other areas as well so its consistent with the information I've picked up already but I hadn't seen where they said it should be worked like hebrew. Is that in Cassaubon? ( I'm not all the way through the book yet because I'm working things ritually as I go )
              >

              Nope. All but the very last leaf of Loagaeth had been transmitted to Dee earlier - recorded in the 5 Books of the Mysteries. He received the text in English characters in the standard Western (left-to-right) format. However, when he was instructed to create a "perfected copy" of the book, written in Angelical characters, he was told it must be re-written from right-to-left, like a Hebrew Bible.

              I'm at work now, but when I get home I can give you the date of the entry and page reference to Joe Peterson's publication of the journals.

              LVX
              Aaron
            • jen
              ... I have the same book I d appreciate it I m having some really tough struggles with this right now. I found what your talking about in Cassaubon. ( been
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 19, 2009
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                --- In angelical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <kheph777@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In angelical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com, "jen" <jennyksargent@> wrote:
                > >
                > > -- A word on Liber Logaeth. When Dee was receiving the last piece of instruction the first part, the final instructions were to write the book backwards. My initial thought was that the book should be written with the last calls given as being first. ....
                >
                > Yes - that instruction was given by Galvah as she delivered the final leaf of Loagaeth. Many have assumed this means the last Angelical Call should be first, etc - but in fact She was merely reminding Dee of the instruction to write the book "after the manner of Hebrew"- which had been told to him during the initial transmission of Loagaeth (see the 5 Books of the Mysteries).
                >
                > >That order applies for other areas as well so its consistent with the information I've picked up already but I hadn't seen where they said it should be worked like hebrew. Is that in Cassaubon? ( I'm not all the way through the book yet because I'm working things ritually as I go )
                > >
                >
                > Nope. All but the very last leaf of Loagaeth had been transmitted to Dee earlier - recorded in the 5 Books of the Mysteries. He received the text in English characters in the standard Western (left-to-right) format. However, when he was instructed to create a "perfected copy" of the book, written in Angelical characters, he was told it must be re-written from right-to-left, like a Hebrew Bible.
                >
                > I'm at work now, but when I get home I can give you the date of the entry and page reference to Joe Peterson's publication of the journals.
                >
                I have the same book

                I'd appreciate it I'm having some really tough struggles with this right now. I found what your talking about in Cassaubon. ( been reading that quite a bit)
                Two things impress me. First the tone of the book is totally different than the first 5 books second there are huge similarities to the Abramelim logs I've read.

                I don't know If I could show you what I found on the Ensigns of creation it would also make sense for that last entry to be first. on the Liber Logaeth. :-( I have yet to be able to write it so another person can understand it. It makes perfect sense to me.





                I have the 5 books. ( bout worn out too)
              • jen
                - Okay changing the subject a tad. Has there been any work done to work out a master table for the system as whole. I ve seen some indication that this might
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 19, 2009
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                  - Okay changing the subject a tad. Has there been any work done to work out a master table for the system as whole. I've seen some indication that this might exist, but Liber Logaeth doesn't appear to work as such at least not the way I laid it out, nor does that sample table of Enoch in Cassaubon. Doesn't seem to match anything that I've been able to find so far. Its like trying to sort out a ball of yarn a kitten's been playing with for a week.
                • Mark Jones
                  ... From: jen Subject: [angelical_linguistics] Re: Aaron to give Angelical Language Workshop To:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 20, 2009
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                    --- On Fri, 6/19/09, jen <jennyksargent@...> wrote:

                    From: jen <jennyksargent@...>
                    Subject: [angelical_linguistics] Re: Aaron to give Angelical Language Workshop
                    To: angelical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:56 AM

















                    - Okay changing the subject a tad. Has there been any work done to work out a master table for the system as whole. I've seen some indication that this might exist, but Liber Logaeth doesn't appear to work as such at least not the way I laid it out, nor does that sample table of Enoch in Cassaubon. Doesn't seem to match anything that I've been able to find so far. Its like trying to sort out a ball of yarn a kitten's been playing with for a week. 
                    >>>> what are you trying to do? does Anyone work the system as found in most contemporary books!? seems the folks in these enochian forums are trying to devise their own methods, which is fine.
                                 is the idea of "anti elements" an add on or is this in Dee's notes?
                                ------          
                                well, there's one thing i've been meaning to share. try this in whatever way you can confabulate...  now there's bi-location and remote viewing, but this isn't Quite it. and this only applies to sentience/sentient beings with memory.
                                 rather than trying to project yourself to either a location or event Itself - tho you can use either as a primer or focus - try to access the thoughtforms of the event.             example, which does somewhat include projecting to a locale, simply for orientation; ages ago, i used to get wasted in my bedroom while listening to music. i used to sit in a chair in the corner while gazing at black light posters and the like.             you try to re-access the Thoughts/experiences themselves. you can do this and it feels really weird. you try to recapture....the astral wonderings you did...or anyone else's wonderings(!). i think you can pop into other's ritual work. serious altered state work where they really got in the zone.             see what i mean? you are entering into a dream pool or thoughtform. i did this again last night by trying to recapture my Thoughts and Visualizations when i was
                    kid. when you do this you recall all kinds of related memories.             another total freak out is by trying to recapture those Precious moments when you were a toddler. those trippy moments of lucididty....when you are just getting old enough to acquire a stable awareness in ego consciousness. you can sense the sea of collective consciousness...and your momentary lapse out of it into "day", as it were.              in any case, i hope i've the time and discipline to do some recording experimentation with a few calls and letter names. i've got cooledit and simply can't stop thinking of that scene in the movie Contact where they showed how the wave composite's amplitudes (my take) contained information...              ...some of you may know about the work done with hebrew and how the shadow of these letters are (like)....the golden mean spiral wrapping around a torus. this seems like recovered major ancient
                    wisdom, which Dee must've known.              from my perusals, i've found that sanskrit does the same, by removing the horizontal bars from the letters. and the enochian letters are included in this little family tho i didn't see how they fit onto the torus. it seems this latter row is, further out there. a higher order row.              Itzac Bentov related his mystical experiences of seeing both hebrew and sanskrit around the edges of This universe. he didn't mention enochian.              i still kinda thing enochian is one big contrivance. but it's fun to see what we can see... but this is what i meant with the above idea of (re)accessing thougtforms, as to locales and physical events. so mayhaps the calls do something akin to this.
                            

































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                  • jen
                    - ... Answer:::There s a serious conflict of information between a table in Cassaubon and the 5th book. According to the information I ve read the table is
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 23, 2009
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                      > - Okay changing the subject a tad. Has there been any work done to work out a master table for the system as whole. I've seen some indication that this might exist, but Liber Logaeth doesn't appear to work as such at least not the way I laid it out, nor does that sample table of Enoch in Cassaubon. Doesn't seem to match anything that I've been able to find so far. Its like trying to sort out a ball of yarn a kitten's been playing with for a week.
                      > >>>> what are you trying to do? does Anyone work the system as found in most contemporary books!? seems the folks in these enochian forums are trying to devise their own methods, which is fine.

                      Answer:::There's a serious conflict of information between a table in Cassaubon and the 5th book. According to the information I've read the table is supposed to be from the last book but nothing fits right. I think the table is from another source.

                      Answer:::I'm not working the system like anyone else I've heard of. I'm going through it working it ritually as I read through the diaries, evoking every spirit mentioned. But also anything that is inspired by the workings I also do if I can understand how it's derived from the original text.


                      > is the idea of "anti elements" an add on or is this in Dee's notes?

                      Answer::: antielements better explain that one a bit.

                      > ------
                      > well, there's one thing i've been meaning to share. try this in whatever way you can confabulate... now there's bi-location and remote viewing, but this isn't Quite it. and this only applies to sentience/sentient beings with memory.

                      Answer::: interesting idea. I think its happening in the experiements anyway, particularly when I'm reading the diaries. I'll get images, hear speech which is so heavily accented it sounds like a totally different language ( the accent is like a superheavy rural Newfie) and odd and strong odors, a particularly heavy perfume incensey. oily smoke with a heavy amonia stuff like that.



                      > rather than trying to project yourself to either a location or event Itself - tho you can use either as a primer or focus - try to access the thoughtforms of the event. example, which does somewhat include projecting to a locale, simply for orientation; ages ago, i used to get wasted in my bedroom while listening to music. i used to sit in a chair in the corner while gazing at black light posters and the like. you try to re-access the Thoughts/experiences themselves. you can do this and it feels really weird. you try to recapture....the astral wonderings you did...or anyone else's wonderings(!). i think you can pop into other's ritual work. serious altered state work where they really got in the zone. see what i mean?

                      Yes I know exactly what you mean and the best tool for it is online with the photos of the original writing.


                      you are entering into a dream pool or thoughtform. i did this again last night by trying to recapture my Thoughts and Visualizations when i was
                      > kid. when you do this you recall all kinds of related memories. another total freak out is by trying to recapture those Precious moments when you were a toddler. those trippy moments of lucididty....when you are just getting old enough to acquire a stable awareness in ego consciousness. you can sense the sea of collective consciousness...and your momentary lapse out of it into "day", as it were. in any case, i hope i've the time and discipline to do some recording experimentation with a few calls and letter names. i've got cooledit and simply can't stop thinking of that scene in the movie Contact where they showed how the wave composite's amplitudes (my take) contained information... ...some of you may know about the work done with hebrew and how the shadow of these letters are (like)....the golden mean spiral wrapping around a torus. this seems like recovered major ancient
                      > wisdom, which Dee must've known. from my perusals, i've found that sanskrit does the same, by removing the horizontal bars from the letters. and the enochian letters are included in this little family tho i didn't see how they fit onto the torus. it seems this latter row is, further out there. a higher order row.

                      Answer:: I think Enochian is its own thing. I am not convinced that it relates to either Hebrew or Sanskrit. There are parallels but I don't think its identical


                      Itzac Bentov related his mystical experiences of seeing both hebrew and sanskrit around the edges of This universe. he didn't mention enochian. i still kinda thing enochian is one big contrivance. but it's fun to see what we can see... but this is what i meant with the above idea of (re)accessing thougtforms, as to locales and physical events. so mayhaps the calls do something akin to this.

                      Answer::: The letter number combination is somehow very significant to the structure of the universe. That concept is present I know at least in Hebrew and Enochian. I mean the over all concept not the specifics. I think that the alphabet used provides a type of viewer so the appearance will be different but we're looking at the same structure. Thats why I think there's a posiblity that the missing tables can be recovered.

                      The calls I think refer to a master table. They do have context as in human language but I think the basis is something very different maybe something like a giant watchtower table with all the servitors listed out.. But right now thats wild speculation on my part.


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                    • Mark Jones
                      Answer:::I m not working the system like anyone else I ve heard of. I m going through it working it ritually as I read through the diaries, evoking every
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 24, 2009
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                        Answer:::I'm not working the system like anyone else I've heard of. I'm going through it working it ritually as I read through the diaries, evoking every spirit mentioned. But also anything that is inspired by the workings I also do if I can understand how it's derived from the original text. >>>> every spirit! i wonder if anyone approaches this as outlined in Lon Milo's small book enochian world of...?  how you give the various temple openings and calls to contact whoever (or whatever) down the hierarchy.

                         I think that the alphabet used provides a type of viewer so the appearance will be different but we're looking at the same structure. Thats why I think there's a posiblity that the missing tables can be recovered. 
                        >>> i've read that the letters have been dowsed, to "find" that they are like modulators (of Light).
                                 i've trouble with letters like A. it's got that seemingly added (stylish afterthought?) christian like slash making a cross. yet it does remind me of a key. but i saw a table comparing enochian to greek...and it does seem this is where it was ultimately derived (then tweaked). if there's "nothing new under the sun"...




                        The calls I think refer to a master table. They do have context as in human language but I think the basis is something very different maybe something like a giant watchtower table with all the servitors listed out.. But right now thats wild speculation on my part.



                        >>>> it's neat to hear working speculation on this. haven't come across this one. funny tho cause i've simply had the same idea, without any cogitations on the particular matter. it's kinda what i meant about anti elements...which may be a new contrived speculation. but here to, i've hit on the same idea independentaly; tho for me, i look at it as balancing mirror images. as within, so....
                                  don't see much about the table of nalvage. i think it ties in with the sigil. tho it seems to be just another table of basic flows of archetypal energy, it's this vortex thing...in tandem with the spirals of the elemental kings.
                                  i was a bit annoyed finding out that there are actually 2 spirals for each king. is this in Dee's records!? annoyed that i didn't read about it in any of my books that is. otherwise, it's perfect and points toward this idea about balanced flow. so we'd guess other aspects - like the tables - have unmentioned counterparts as well.
                                how's about digital representations of subtle energy flow. you know, like how those psionic devices supposedly worked with only a drawing of the circuitry. if that worked i don't see why a digital/symbolical representation of subtle energy manipulation woouldn't work. then you take this idea with the new headband interphase contraptions you can use to manipulate various program's functions with....
                         
                         ,_._,___





















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                      • jen
                        I think I figured out part of the problem the Tables of Liber Logaeth are not in the 5 books of mystery but are online. I am having quite a bit of difficulty
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 24, 2009
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                          I think I figured out part of the problem the Tables of Liber Logaeth are not in the 5 books of mystery but are online. I am having quite a bit of difficulty orienting where they start though. If anyone knows I'd greatly appreciate some help. I'm trying to reconcile where how the verbal of the 5 books which is nice and clear fits to the tables of 3189, It has left me with a sizable headache LOL

                          I tried posting earlier and yahoo is telling lies.
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