Re: Underwater Structure in NW Wisconsin Revisited: Almost!
All, I want to briefly acknowledge the new file Vince sent today, Rock Art of Wickes, Missouri1.ppt -A presentation on Rock Art of Wickes, Missouri. My computer crashed a couple of months ago and a Dell phone tech sent and helped install new DVD's, yet still cannot open most files. I'll do so later today when I begom a free 8-Thursday afternoon Basic Computers class at the public library, as never had formal sequential computer coursework. Hopefully can then move into basic classes on digital photos, Powerpoint, etc. Essential with the (online-) 2009 A+C Atlantic Conference coming October 10th-11th and possibly a second weekend included.
I was greatly moved by Herb's post on the NW Wisconsin Underwater Structures revisited. In your opening remark, Herb, I'd bet at least half a dozen members at this group (Kentucky film producers Lee & Joy Pennington included) besides myself agree with you:
"I believe there is more potential for new unexpected discoveries in the Lake Superior country than anywhere else in the country, if not the world: Including both natural and supernatural discoveries!"
Re: http://www.atthecreation.com/ROAD/UNDERWATER.RD.html , when an update had not followed the July, 2007 discovery, I suspected you had been unable to relocate the obscure underwater structure, or something else had taken place. I sympathisize with your encounter and am aware of such things myself, but know scientists who have, too. Such encournters are difficult to talk about, perhaps are in some 'quantum' physical or 'ultradimentional' realm. Believe me, it would be easier if they were 'hallucinations". The story got me to pondering while driving to a Lenten Soup Kitchen last night, and I made a couple of phone call attempts to two or three whom I know will talk about their own experiences. Scherz' computer is kaput again so he has missed weeks of posts, including this one, but he knows of legends and similar encounters...sometimes they are human ones, and "marker trees" seem an indication when sites are protected. But the nonhuman ones, the professor has spoken through the years of similar experiences during underwater work or surveying ancient/sacred sites, especially in wilderness areas.
Fred Rydholm during camp fireside chats year ago has related quite a few. Some far back as when he and a friend (I beleive an Ojibaway) named Indian Jim as young men worked as surveyors and land protectors for Henry Ford, the Silus McCormick family and other members at the pristine wilderness of the still guarded immense 'Huron Mountain Club' lands near Mt. Argon/Huron Mt. between Keweenaw Bay and Marquette, MI.
I don't know Fred as do his hundreds of close friends, but had called him not long ago on the phone about a site farther north of the Lake Michigan underwater 'Stonehenge' site being surveyed by prof. Mark Holley from NMU (where I went to college for a while early 60's). Fred is the only one I could ask about his particular site but he told me it is in his new book, and I still cannot find it. But that site on a peninsula of Lake Huron allegedly stayed untouched by the last 'glacial' or ice movement, and we al need to delve more into this.
So many areas remain yet in and near the Great Lakes, Mississippi riverways and the continent's last remaining wilderness lands between both oceans have barely been touched, much less been explored for millinnea. And I believe we need to be open to the possibilities that two-way traffic, visitors, settlers from many continents took place for perhaps tens out thousands of years or longer. Where such encounters of diverse peoples took place that were 'evolutionary', muutually enhancing of peoples and lands, reverend, inclusive and life-sustaining.........these missing stories, legends, and solid scientific data that have come forth I 'treasure' more than anything material and are probably at the roots of why I am in this work as support person and promoter. 'We' have and are losing more and more those dedicated few who have devoted their heartl and personal resources in enlightening this world in their courageous efforts to delving deeply, wholly, truthfully into the ancient past, things long lost to the legacies that are essential to know in order to re-shape the present, correct erroneous wrong turns in the shaping of our societies as we have been taught.
The phone conversation I had with Fred Rydholm a few weeks ago, he had just gotten back from a medical appointment and said with a laugh that his doctors told him "my cancer is progressing nicely" and given a few weeks or months to live. He is trying hard to stick around for his son's wedding this month (April). Anyone having contact with Fred, or updates, please let this group know. We have spoken about the Ryhdolms, AAPS and previous large and groups in which many peoples and various noncompetitive groups have worked together through the years. Fred was at the 3-day weekend Ancient Waterways Society gathering at the resort along Lake Superior south of Copper Harbor, MI where at least twenty of you and others showed up. Thank goodness for these little ongoing groups, occasional informal gatherings, and larger conferences where more formal research is shared and set permanently into CD's and even TV documentaries.
Re: a bit more about wilderness and/or protected areas again......another fellow I tried to get hold of by phone last night was Frank Joseph who for years was editor of Ancient American Magazine (now a consultant), early books during the 80's I'd read include Atlantis in Wisconsin and Lost Pyramids of Rock Lake. I'd gotten to know him personally at a northside Chicago bookstore and a large A.R. E. Conference in Chicago where he was main speaker re: his underwater photos of the giant ancient stone anomalies underwater off Yonaguni, Japan. Frank's books and the Yonaguni site really piqued my interest in ancient diffusionist research twenty years ago, not too long after the year I'd transported the NB Miq'Mac friend Hunts to a UW anthropology professor for work they were doing together.
But for Herb, here. An early 90's phone converstion with Frank, he told me about encounters he had diving (I believe mentioned in part in one of the above books) in a particular end of Rock Lake (in Lake Mills, a couple of miles from the Aztalan Mounds); other divers I met after that from the Rock Lake Research Association were reluctant to discuss publicly. Frank told me what he had to do in order to be able to revisit, continue diving and photography in that particular area of the eerily murky green waters of Rock Lake.
Ancient Waterways member Pam Giese living now in the UK grew up only a few miles from the legendary Rock Lake. And Steve Stegerwald and Jim Stevens who wrote the moving letter re: the still missing Offerator Stone are from the Rock Lake-Aztalan, where I've no doubt research of more depth may yet be forthcoming ... Pam, Steve S., and Jim Stevens undoubtely not only know more details than I of the scientific research, but just as importantly, the spiritual wisdom and legendary story histories that those close to the lands and waters there carry on in those ancient places.
Herb, no one who has been following for years here your love of the wilderness and all its creations could ever doubt the benevolent motives you have maintained, and shared, especially the 'Ancient Underwater Road?' site you clearly keep protected. The answers, as you know well, are internally enspirited and I've no doubt you will know a nd carry this confidence in your intentions next submersion. Perhaps with a trusted friend who knows and reverences the waters you have long been frequenting and photographing.
Thanks for the update and generosity once again in sharing this with an almost 50 member group plus nonmember followers here.
--- In email@example.com, "herbswoods" <herbswoods@...> wrote:
> Susan, et al,
> I believe there is more potential for new unexpected discoveries in the Lake Superior country than anywhere else in the country, if not the world: Including both natural and supernatural discoveries!
> If one accepts that ancient copper mining took place here (and few would deny it didn't take place), then the possibilities for new finds are almost endless. It might even turn out that the Indians were latecomers. I have been collecting information on sites for years along with historical information, legend and myth. It's very rich and intriguing.
> This summer I must go back and re-locate the underwater "structure" site in NW Wisconsin or whatever it is. The shape of those underwater blocks bear close resemblance to the copper "ingot" posted on the other thread. I must admit I assumed they were stone and they probably are, but I did NOT chip or pound on them to find out for sure what materal they are made of. They cetainly can't be copper, but what if they are? They almost look like the well-arranged cargo of a boat that sunk!
> Last year I did try to reach the underwater site again and a strange happening took place. It was a cool summer and not very good for snorkeling, but I did go there on one occasion to search for it to learn more and get more photos. From the 2007 photos on my webpage you can see the area is thick with submergent aquatic vegetation and visibility is very limited.
> Anyway, I was working my way upstream and came to a narrow defile with strong current full of underwater debris, sunken logs, and fantastically shaped roots eroding out of the bank. It was a dark eerie location as these northern waterways tend to be, full of shadows with cold murky water, deep holes and tangled logjams with hundreds of dangerous places to get caught in and drowned.
> Anyway, I was proceeding along minding my own business when all of a sudden something big rammed me from behind on my upper shoulder. Already I was alone in a very spooky underwater place coming up for air now and then, when something slammed into me. Talk about a shock! I have no clue what it was and only got a glimpse of something dark colored, altho that might have been my own wetsuit I was seeing as I turned my head for an instant. It freaked me out so much that I fled that area as fast as I could and aborted the entire trip. That was the end of my explorations that day and I have not been back since. Needless to say I did not reach the site and did not get additional photos.
> No doubt it was some wild creature whose territory I was invading but what kind I don't know. It didn't bite or scratch me, and it didn't feel hard like a turtle shell, but not soft like a mammal either. Of course, having long known of the old Indian legends of the Great Horned Water Serpent (Mishigenabeg) and the Underwater Copper Tail Lynx (or Bear) (Mishibishi), I had an intant flash in my mind of some evil monster with bulging eyes and a grinning fang filled mouth brimming with razor sharp teeth! Go ahead and laugh, but I was underwater in a wilderness river where no human had probably gone before totally alone without a knife or anything to protect myself! I got the hell out of there fast!
> This is wild country with places nobody ever goes and people have vanished. I'd hate to be one of them...
> Underwater Structure
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Susan" beldingenglish@ wrote:
> > All,
> > There seems no web sites or photographs other than the larger rock
> > structures referred to as the "Bimini Road" that even resemble Herb's
> > ancient underwater structure. Herb's site suggests he still suspects
> > the underwater, flat rectangular stones to be natural rather than
> > manmade, but I am still trying to consider possiblities. Especially my
> > continuing obsession with ancient copper mining.
> > I have been trying to get a longtime friend, David Hoffman to join
> > Ancient Waterways Society for years. He has written articles and given
> > many talks on Old or Ancient Waterways, especially those around northern
> > Wisconsin and Upper Michigan. Years ago he sent me the following web
> > site w/old photograph and wrote that while science explains the
> > anomalous structure as a natural occurrance on the Keweenaw Fault, he
> > knew of an investigator that considered it to be a possible 'ancient'
> > dam. David has been urging me to make the long trek in to check this
> > 'wall' out. Vast tracts of land around Lake Superior are roadless and
> > an old trout fishing friend was lost alone for four days after taking a
> > shortcut to his truck. But the photograph and possibilities are food
> > for thought, anyway. The site, from the photo, looks more 'natural'
> > than does Herb's photo of the underwater structure he hopefully was able
> > to find again after the summer of '07. As the crow flies, I am guessing
> > both very different rock structures to be within 50-100 miles of each
> > other....one vertible, the other horizontal.
> > From The Copper Range Railroad & Copper Country Historical Page, an
> > article titled "The Natural Wall":
> > http://www.copperrange.org/natural.htm
> > <http://www.copperrange.org/natural.htm>
> > MSE