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Re: Batchelder, George Alexander

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  • Susan English
    Vince and all, A really terrific message here, fine comments, and moving summation, Vince. I was unable to enter the many interesting-looking web sites to
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 4, 2007
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      Vince and all,

      A really terrific message here, fine comments, and moving summation,
      Vince. I was unable to enter the many interesting-looking web sites
      to study further your fine post, even after pasting the full links
      into my browser. I hear this happening also at other sites.

      Mike in China is probably backlogged with posts and his own research
      for the PI site, but MinnesotaStan, Pam G., or someone else from this
      site experienced with YahooGroups perhaps can let us know how to
      insert viable web links into messages. I know Pam was a computer
      programmer when she lived in Illinois, had created a wonderful
      personal Ancient Waterways web site a few years ago when I was just
      learning to use email and needed a few tips.

      By appearances, Steve's AncientVikings web site seems to be
      through a more modern Yahoogroup service, doesn't have the same
      problems I have seen at PI, William's Thor/Ohio Rock site and the
      Ancient Waterways Society.

      Another thing I want to mention here. If members are writing posts of
      any great length, I suggest frequently scanning, pasting, and
      inserting research links and work into an email to yourself or a WP
      page. Or, writing/responding to posts from more stable screens, then
      transferring the saved messages into the Posts. I do know that if you
      write a post to any site, then refer back to another message or clikc
      to another web site or without minimizing it, the entire screen is
      erased and unretrievable. Same too if bounced out of the network, as
      we with dial-up very well know! Others write that they have lost
      many messages, then had to repeat whatever remnants they could
      recall, at 'half-steam', or when early AM Alzheimers sets in. Anyone
      having more helpful comments about these matters for newcomers
      entering these group web sites, it would be much appreciated.

      Vince, perhaps you would like to resubmit the web links, or put them
      back into the content of the whole Message you sent, once we find out
      how to do so properly. Little doubt the well-documented article with
      early historic writing that many may not have seen before, will make
      a fine link of us to refer to (i.e., Post # _____) at this or other
      sites. Our friend and old viking research pioneer Marion Dahm was a
      Dane, and is singing the hallellujia chorus over the mention of the
      Danish explorer. He was always telling everyone their European and
      Native American blood lines were connected to viking global
      seafaring. But the Danish one was for him.

      Yes, thank goodness we are retraveling ancient "international waters"
      with different hearts, minds, attitudes, reexamining, getting to the
      roots, and heart of who we human beings really are. It is becoming
      clearer to me every day that I am working with courageous and unique
      groups of explorers...pioneers into unknown territory. Thanks to
      these web sites, as long as we have electritity in which to
      correspond between our 'travels', we are not paddling alone.

      Thanks again for stimulating my heart and mind. Looking forward to
      reading the links. Have been clicking into links from Mike
      White's "Re: Inca lands post".

      Jamie, when the season warms and you find it fitting, please let me
      know when I and perhaps others may meet some of you in Tennessee--to
      get to know the waterways, terraine, provide support of the
      landowners involved (if they wish), and start delving more deeply
      together into the very ancient human and paleontological past of the
      Americas. I live on a stipend under the poverty line, but am a flea
      market vendor when necessary and can stretch a dollare as far as
      anyone...Best that I camp, and will provide an open soup pot for any
      of you to commune and sup with me, at any time. And keep the wildlife
      from interrupting my sleep.

      Even if the area is a post-glacial drainage or dump site, it is where
      all the 'evidence' washed, and thus, still significant. And, along
      high ground above centuries-long raging run-off areas are unexplored,
      intact areas with truths maybe beyond our most outstretched beliefs.
      When we can roll away the boulders that have kept such things hidden,
      until wise ones come who are fit and able to climb to such
      understandings.

      Exploring Great Lakes-Mississippi Riverways, joining you along your
      ancient waterway, M. Susan English
      http://hometown.aol.com/suzenglish/myhomepage/profile.html

      PreColumbian Incriptions message link (see Home Page guidelines, then
      click Messages):
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/
      ___________________________________________
      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Vince"
      <v_barrows@...> wrote:
      >
      > The following source is dated to 1870, and provides an interesting
      > bit of information about the earliest European arrivals. I go on to
      > describe a similarity between royal crests used at the Cahokia
      Mounds
      > and in early British heraldic emblems. As suggested by
      > This information shared by the Secretary of the Dakota Territory in
      > 1870 has a lot of good information, but also includes racist slurs
      > against the native Americans, calling theim "Savages". Please
      replace
      > this word in you minds eye with "countrymen".
      > I found a very excellent source entitled:
      > Batchelder, George Alexander. A Sketch of the History and Resources
      of
      > Dakota Territory. 71 pp. Map. 1870.
      > And here is a part of this, typed here for your review:
      > "The earliest historical record which we have of these Indians of
      > North America, is found among the Icelandic and Danish authorites,
      > wherein it is claimed that in the year 986, Eric Rauda, emigarated
      > from Iceland to Greenland, and formed a settlement of Northmen. No
      > mention is made, however, by these adventurous Northmen, of the
      > appearance of natives on the shore of North America until 1004 when
      > Thorwald, the son of Eric, Earl of Norway, while sailing along the
      > coast between Newfoundland and Greenland, discovered three canoes
      upon
      > the beach, and under each canoe three esquimaux, called by the
      > Northmen, Skroelings, A contest ensued, and eight of the nine
      natives
      > were killed. The ninth fled into the back ground of the bay and soon
      > returned with a vast number of his people, whereupon the party of
      the
      > Northmen retreated to the vessels and set sail to the southward,
      > Throwald being fatally wounded by an arrow. In 1005, Throstein, the
      > Brother of Thorwald, set sail for the new found land, with his wife,
      > Gudrida, the first white woman known in history as having visited
      the
      > shores of America, and who three years after her arrival gave birth
      to
      > the first child of European descent born in the New World.
      > In 1007, Thronfin, a wealthy personage, descended from Danish,
      > Norwegian, Swedish, Irish, and Scottish ancestors, arrived off the
      > coast of New England, near Mount Hope Bay, with two ships and 140
      men
      > and women. Here they discovered fields covered with wheat growing
      > wild, and they were visited by great numbers of natives in canoes,
      who
      > were described as a sallow-colored, ill looking race of people, with
      > long hair, large eyes, and broad cheeks. In 1011, a quarrel was
      > incited by Frydesia, daughter of Eric, which proved fatal to a large
      > number of the colonists. From this period the Nrothmen appear to
      have
      > become estranged and lawless, and amalgamated with the wild natives
      of
      > the country. In 1026, Gudleif, and Icelandic navigator, who was
      driven
      > upon this unknown shore, was seized, with his crew, by the natives,
      > and carried into the interior, where they were accosted by a
      venerable
      > chief speaking their own language, who inquired after certain
      > individuals in Noway.
      > The natives were described at that date of a red color, and very
      cruel
      > to strangers.
      > From this period we hear nor more of this northern colony until 1059
      > when a Saxon priest, named Jon, who was sent out as a missionary to
      > the colonists, arrived and was murdered by the heathens.
      > In 1121, the Bishop of Greenland undertook the same voyage, for the
      > same purpose, but othe his success and fate are undetermined by
      > history. From this period until the date of discovery of America by
      > Columbus in 1492, there is no historical mention of the early
      > colonists or natives of North America.
      > In the early part of the fourteenth century, according to numerous
      and
      > accredited authorities, Prince Madoc, or Madawe, from North Wales,
      Set
      > sail with ten ships and a large colony of his countrymen, who are
      > supposed to have landed somewhere on the coast of North America.
      None
      > of the colonists have ever returned to their own country. The best
      > authorities have been only able to trace them to the mouth of the
      > Mississippi river; but according to the history and poetry of their
      > own country, this colony settled somewhere in the interior of North
      > America, where the descendants may yet remain, intermingled with the
      > savage tribes."
      >
      > The "Pi-A-Sa" seems to show that even around Cahokia Mounds
      depictions
      > of mythic creatures on rock faces indicate an even earlier invasion
      > from Europeans. The expert on Mide birchbark scrolls, Selwyn
      Dudeney,
      > even agrees that the British lion from around 1100-1340 has a
      similar
      > appearance to Mishipizheu. These symbolic heraldic crests were
      painted
      > on the rock faces very early on and serve to indicate a Kings
      > crest.Many if not all of the tablet forms also convey a royal
      lineage,
      > as shown by the similarity to the Luba Lukasa, and to the Australian
      > Churingas. The Native Americans fought with bravery and heroism to
      > defend their lands against invaders.
      >
      > Below is a summary of my research into Materials that indicate the
      > possible origin of the Piasa.
      >
      > Etching on this artifact does represent Mishipizheu
      > http://www.city. north-bay. on.ca/lavase/ 97FRS611. HTM
      >
      > Agawa Bay, Upper Peninsula Michigan petroglyph of Mishipizheu (water
      > panther)
      > http://www.kayakwik i.org/index. php/Agawa_ Bay
      >
      > Piasa, Marquette Journal 1673, Mishipizheu
      > http://www2. ic.edu/cochran/ ClassPages/ 205Spring03/
      Downs/TheLegendo
      > fthePiasa. html
      >
      > Winnebago War Club, Two Mishipizheu
      > http://130.91. 80.97:591/ PDFs/5-4/ An%20Unusual. pdf
      >
      > "Two Lenape Stone Masks from Pennsylvania and New Jersey." Museum of
      > the American Indian, Heye Foundation, Indian Notes, and Monographs,
      > Miscellaneous Series 3. New York, 1920.
      >
      > Henry II (1133 † 1189), son of previous, king of England, duke of
      > Normandy, count of Anjou
      > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Armorial_ of_Plantagenet
      >
      > Richard (1209 † 1272), earl of Cornwall, then king of the Romans,
      son
      > of John Lackland, king of England
      > Arms of the counts of Poitiers (see Richard Lionheart above), with a
      > brisure.
      > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Armorial_ of_Plantagenet
      >
      > Spiro Mounds Shell Cup, theoretically, depicting circles of Cahokia
      > Mounds Woodhenge
      > Philip Phillips and James A. Brown, Pre-Columbian Shell Engravings
      > from the Craig Mound at Spiro, Oklahoma, 2 vols. (Cambridge: Harvard
      > University, Peabody Museum Press, 1978.
      >
      > (Photo by J. G. Braecklein, 1936)
      > Theoretically, cached for safety after victory at Cahokia Mounds.
      > http://www.mississi ppian-artifacts. com/html/ spiro.html
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tournament_(medieval)
      >
      > Their lands have been squandered away from them unjustly in 1000
      > years, due to small pox, countless wars, broken treaties, and
      > "National Sacrifice" zones where nearly 1000 nukes were "tested"
      > directly adjacent to their reservations. Even The John Wayne died
      from
      > exposure to nuclear fallout when he was on an indian reservation,
      > along with half the crew of the movie that was filmed there. That is
      > documented in one film called "The Dragon the Slew St. George."
      Today,
      > we may be continuing the count down to nuclear annihilation of the
      > human race. What else will the USA do with its over 50 thousand
      nukes,
      > and the other countries do with their massive 30 thousand plus
      stockpiles.
      >
      > time will tell, so lets live.
      > Vince
      >
    • Vincent Barrows
      Hi Susan; Thanks for the quick responses and here is the post, revised with corrected links. The following source is dated to 1870, and provides an interesting
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Susan;
        Thanks for the quick responses and here is the post, revised with corrected links.
        The following source is dated to 1870, and provides an interesting bit of information about the earliest European arrivals. I go on to describe a similarity between royal crests used at the Cahokia Mounds and in early British heraldic emblems. As suggested by Dewdney, the piasa resembles the british lion.
        This was written in 1870 by the Secretary of the Dakota Territory in 1870 and has a lot of related info, but also includes racist slurs against the native Americans, calling them "Savages". Please replace this word in you minds eye with "countrymen".
        I found a very excellent source entitled:
        Batchelder, George Alexander. A Sketch of the History and Resources of
        Dakota Territory. 71 pp. Map. 1870.
        And here is a part of this, typed here for your review:
        "The earliest historical record which we have of these Indians of
        North America, is found among the Icelandic and Danish authorites,
        wherein it is claimed that in the year 986, Eric Rauda, emigarated
        from Iceland to Greenland, and formed a settlement of Northmen. No
        mention is made, however, by these adventurous Northmen, of the
        appearance of natives on the shore of North America until 1004 when
        Thorwald, the son of Eric, Earl of Norway, while sailing along the
        coast between Newfoundland and Greenland, discovered three canoes upon
        the beach, and under each canoe three esquimaux, called by the
        Northmen, Skroelings, A contest ensued, and eight of the nine natives
        were killed. The ninth fled into the back ground of the bay and soon
        returned with a vast number of his people, whereupon the party of the
        Northmen retreated to the vessels and set sail to the southward,
        Thorwald being fatally wounded by an arrow. In 1005, Throstein, the
        Brother of Thorwald, set sail for the new found land, with his wife,
        Gudrida, the first white woman known in history as having visited the
        shores of America, and who three years after her arrival gave birth to
        the first child of European descent born in the New World.
        In 1007, Thornfin, a wealthy personage, descended from Danish,
        Norwegian, Swedish, Irish, and Scottish ancestors, arrived off the
        coast of New England, near Mount Hope Bay, with two ships and 140 men
        and women. Here they discovered fields covered with wheat growing
        wild, and they were visited by great numbers of natives in canoes, who
        were described as a sallow-colored, ill looking race of people, with
        long hair, large eyes, and broad cheeks. In 1011, a quarrel was
        incited by Frydesia, daughter of Eric, which proved fatal to a large
        number of the colonists. From this period the Northmen appear to have
        become estranged and lawless, and amalgamated with the wild natives of
        the country. In 1026, Gudleif, and Icelandic navigator, who was driven
        upon this unknown shore, was seized, with his crew, by the natives,
        and carried into the interior, where they were accosted by a venerable
        chief speaking their own language, who inquired after certain
        individuals in Norway.
        The natives were described at that date of a red color, and very cruel
        to strangers.
        From this period we hear nor more of this northern colony until 1059
        when a Saxon priest, named Jon, who was sent out as a missionary to
        the colonists, arrived and was murdered by the heathens.
        In 1121, the Bishop of Greenland undertook the same voyage, for the
        same purpose, but both his success and fate are undetermined by
        history. From this period until the date of discovery of America by
        Columbus in 1492, there is no historical mention of the early
        colonists or natives of North America.
        In the early part of the fourteenth century, according to numerous and
        accredited authorities, Prince Madoc, or Madawe, from North Wales, Set
        sail with ten ships and a large colony of his countrymen, who are
        supposed to have landed somewhere on the coast of North America. None
        of the colonists have ever returned to their own country. The best
        authorities have been only able to trace them to the mouth of the
        Mississippi river; but according to the history and poetry of their
        own country, this colony settled somewhere in the interior of North America, where the descendants may yet remain, intermingled with the
        savage tribes."
         
        The "Pi-A-Sa" seems to show that even around Cahokia Mounds depictions
        of mythic creatures on rock faces indicate an even earlier invasion
        from Europeans. The expert on Mide birchbark scrolls, Selwyn Dudeney,
        even agrees that the British lion from around 1100-1340 has a similar
        appearance to Mishipizheu. These symbolic heraldic crests were painted on the rock faces very early on and serve to indicate a Kings crest. Many if not all of the tablet forms also convey a royal lineage, as shown by the similarity to the Luba Lukasa, and to the Australian Churingas.  The Native Americans fought with bravery and heroism to defend their lands against invaders.
         
        Below is a summary of my research into Materials that indicate the
        possible origin of the Piasa.
         
        Etching on this artifact does represent Mishipizheu
         
        Agawa Bay, Upper Peninsula Michigan petroglyph of Mishipizheu (water
        panther)
         
        Piasa, Marquette Journal 1673, Mishipizheu
         
        Winnebago War Club, Two Mishipizheu
         
        "Two Lenape Stone Masks from Pennsylvania and New Jersey." Museum of
        the American Indian, Heye Foundation, Indian Notes, and Monographs,
        Miscellaneous Series 3. New York, 1920.
         
        Henry II (1133 † 1189), son of previous, king of England, duke of
        Normandy, count of Anjou
         
        Richard (1209 † 1272), earl of Cornwall, then king of the Romans, son
        of John Lackland, king of England
        Arms of the counts of Poitiers (see Richard Lionheart above), with a
        brisure.
         
        Spiro Mounds Shell Cup, theoretically, depicting circles of Cahokia
        Mounds Woodhenge
        Philip Phillips and James A. Brown, Pre-Columbian Shell Engravings
        from the Craig Mound at Spiro, Oklahoma, 2 vols. (Cambridge: Harvard University, Peabody Museum Press, 1978.
         
        (Photo by J. G. Braecklein, 1936)
        Theoretically, maces cached for safety after victory at Cahokia Mounds.
         
         
        Their lands have been squandered away from them unjustly in 1000 years, due to small pox, countless wars, broken treaties, and "National Sacrifice" zones where nearly 1000 nukes were "tested" directly adjacent to their reservations. Even The John Wayne died from exposure to nuclear fallout when he was on an indian reservation, along with half the crew of the movie that was filmed there. That is documented in one film called "The Dragon the Slew St. George." Today, we may be continuing the count down to nuclear annihilation of the human race. What else will the USA do with its over 50 thousand nukes, and the other countries do with their massive 30 thousand plus stockpiles.
         
        time will tell, so lets live.
        Vince


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