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Oops wrong Barrows' link in letter to Steigerwald & Stevens++ @ Aztalan

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  • Susan
    Steve Stegerwald, Jim Stevens and all, My apologize for having inserted an incorrect link for Vince Barrows... If you forward our AWS hopes and strengths in
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 8, 2008
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      Steve Stegerwald, Jim Stevens and all,
      My apologize for having inserted an incorrect link for Vince Barrows...
      If you forward our AWS hopes and strengths in behalf of the Offering Stone to others, please also include this dedicated researcher's links:
      ... Vince Barrows'  Historiography of Cahokia From the Earliest times to European Arrival
      Thank you for all of your efforts down there at Aztalan.  Perhaps we can some day set up a small gathering w/AWS members at Aztalan in lieu of an Ancient Waterways/Ancient Earthworks Society meeting or weekend.  Last AES gatherings in Madison were at Tom Solberg's home and  excellent teaching tour of Madison area Effigy Mounds by researcher, Larry Johns  who I know to be a close friend, possibly former grad student of Jim Scherz from the UW School of Civil & Environmental Engineering.
      Not trying to speak for AWS members, but for the group as I
      understand them, in this special regard....
      Susan English

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
      > All,
      > Some of you who have been members for while remember the Offering Stone
      > which was thought to be removed as a prank, or stolen from the Aztalan
      > Mounds sometime soon after
      > the 'Independence Day' weekend last year. Correspondence between
      > myself/this group, Steve Steigerwald of Aztalan, and Jim Stevens is
      > below. Please see moving appeal at the bottom of this page from Native
      > keeper of the stone, Jim Stevens.
      > Today I am sending a follow up inquiry and relaying more support to
      > their efforts by including a few experiences and sites I have come to
      > be aware of from this Ancient Waterways society of friends, some of
      > you specifically, below:
      > Dear Steve Stegerwald and Jim Stevens,
      > I am co-host of the Ancient Waterways Society, a 40+ member group of
      > cooperative, dedicated rsearchers and explorers which includes several
      > Native American/ First Nations members from across the continent. You
      > and I had exchanged emails several months ago after the tragic July
      > incident in relation to the Offering Stone at Aztalan. Included in your
      > email was Jim Steven's letter, which moved many of us deeply. It is
      > our hope the stone has been returned. I want you, Mr. Stevens and
      > others at Aztalan to know this Offeratory Stone and its sacred
      > surroundings has meaning to many of us at Ancient Waterways, also. When
      > I received your permission by email during the Atlantic Conference in
      > Halifax, I posted your letters w/attachments at our web site. Many
      > sent it on to friends and associates throughout the country. I heard a
      > foot of more snow was forecast today in your neck of the woods toward
      > Madison, so on this snowy day, I hope you will enjoy my efforts to
      > expand a mutual admiration society between Aztalan and we from many
      > parts of the globe, via the little Ancient Waterways Society web group
      > which is sometimes quiet and gives everyone a rest. One from me is
      > coming soon. At least half a dozen of our members had published
      > (and continue) research directly associated with Aztalan and/or the
      > Offering Stone, hence are aware of its ancient history and continuing
      > sacredness. First is host and designer of the Ancient Waterways
      > Society web site, MinnesotaStan, a recently retired physician/professor
      > from UW Madison's School of Medicine whom I met a few years ago at an
      > Ancient Earthworks Society meeting held at that time at the UW Science
      > Bldg. when Tom Solberg was president of the group. Stan has a blog site
      > and travel committments, yet continues to host and oversee our web site.
      > Retired Professor Emeritus of Engineering, Dr. Jim Scherz of the UW
      > Madison, whom you both know, is a recent member but the AWS name came
      > from a 28 page paper he wrote. Last weekend he had printed several hard
      > copies of the paper which he has offered to give free to the first AWS
      > members who ask. I still have two copies. You and Jim Steven might
      > both have his blue-covered paper: "OLD WATER LEVELS & WATERWAYS During
      > the Ancient Copper Mining Era (about 3000 BC to 1000 BC)", by Dr. James
      > P. Scherz, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Of Civil and Environmental Engineering
      > (Surveying and Mapping Section) University of Wisconsin. July, 1999
      > (AWS #656, in part) Jim stopped in Wausau the other day and we inquired
      > of the other whether the Offering Stone had been recovered. Aztalan
      > will always be near and dear to Jim Scherz, his friends, and fellow
      > engineering grad students who continue surveying and outreach projects
      > together throughout Wisconsin and the Midwest. Another AWS member
      > whom I became acquainted with in July through the Ancient Earthworks
      > Societry because of his concerns and inquries about the Offering Stone
      > is retired educator, Ted Sojka ("Soy-ya" as he wrote me last night) of
      > Iowa who has worked decades with Native Earthworks Preservation
      > socieites in Iowa, Ohio and Wisconsin. Two others are Lee and Joy
      > Pennington, retired Univ. of Kentucky professors who reside in
      > Louisville, call Nova Scotia their second home, and are world travelers
      > and film producers: http://www.joleproductions.com/catalog.php
      > <http://www.joleproductions.com/catalog.php> Their 51 minute DVD "The
      > Moundbuilders" is as comprehensive a film as I have seen on the subject
      > and moved myself and others in very deeply-felt ways. Filmed a few years
      > ago, within it is a segment at Aztalan showing the Offering Stone and
      > Jim Scherz next to it. I recall the film referring to the keeper of
      > the stone, and I believe Jim Stevens might also have been on site
      > during the time they spent there. If you'd like to borrow my copy to
      > show it to friends down there, I'd be glad to loan it. And you can have
      > your own little formal Ancient Waterways meeting w/coffee and
      > friends....:) A recent new member to our site from California,
      > author Brad Olsen is probably unaware of the missing Offering Stone had
      > included Aztalan in at least one of his Sacred Places.... books via
      > http://www.cccpublishing.com/ <http://www.cccpublishing.com/> Brad's
      > travels take him across the globe, he has authored hundreds of pages,
      > photos, drawings and illustrations of his own within his books of
      > sacred sites acround the world. The pages of all his books are
      > accessible without cost to online viewers. He refers to the Aztalan
      > mounds and Rock Lake starting on page 282 in Sacred Places of North
      > America, link below. The Illustration/map p. 281 shows where I live
      > (in Wausau) where all of the typing, phone calls, and mini Ancient
      > Waterways cafe mini-meetings with traveling researchers take place.
      > NorthCentral on Brad's map that shows a "crossroads" along the Wisconsin
      > River out t he window from my kitchen, as I write to you, scroll to what
      > he says about Aztalan:
      > http://books.google.com/books?id=l4hTCuby90IC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=azta\
      > lan+sacred+places+offering+stone&source=web&ots=QVgfQ8ENpb&sig=VXyItxFko\
      > qx7Q9lb9o-_MjRSb6Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA282,M\
      > 1
      > <http://books.google.com/books?id=l4hTCuby90IC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=azt\
      > alan+sacred+places+offering+stone&source=web&ots=QVgfQ8ENpb&sig=VXyItxFk\
      > oqx7Q9lb9o-_MjRSb6Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA282,\
      > M1> Another 28 year old Ancient Waterways member who also seems to
      > have lived far longer than his chronological years is engineer Vince
      > Barrows. His sentiments about the Aztalan loss were clear in posts to
      > the site and my mailbox. Vince and his wife met through voluntary
      > preservationist and advocacy work at the Cahokia Mounds, recently
      > relocated from St.Louis to New Orleans. Some hope the broad-reaching
      > genius of his Cahokia efforts are carried to Poverty Point. I shall
      > include Vince's essay on Monks Mound for you to pass to others, and hope
      > you will find time to check out the couple's extensive photos and
      > collection/categorization of stone tablets, articles, symbols, etc. at
      > the top of the home page. It took me awhile to learn to spell
      > 'historiography', but now can quickly Google up via ' Historiography of
      > Cahokia':
      > http://books.google.com/books?id=l4hTCuby90IC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=azta\
      > lan+sacred+places+offering+stone&source=web&ots=QVgfQ8ENpb&sig=VXyItxFko\
      > qx7Q9lb9o-_MjRSb6Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA282,M\
      > 1
      > <http://books.google.com/books?id=l4hTCuby90IC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=azt\
      > alan+sacred+places+offering+stone&source=web&ots=QVgfQ8ENpb&sig=VXyItxFk\
      > oqx7Q9lb9o-_MjRSb6Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA282,\
      > M1> Let me know if any of you down there are interested in more web
      > sites and dedicated work of other AWS members who open hearts and
      > hearth freely, accessibly to researchers and students of many cultures
      > around the world. Until they start posting their own related web links
      > within their YahooGroup Profiles or after the salutations in their
      > Posts and Emails, I will continue to act like a momma momma boasting
      > about the efforts of the fine folks I have come to know at these web
      > sites, fireside circles, and conferences when funds permit.
      > Collaborative efforts continue online into many avenues of research and
      > esoteric teachings of wisdom teachers around the world. More than a few
      > are seeking to not just study, but live some of those avenues of ancient
      > understanding. Similar to the idea behind "international waters". I
      > seek evidence and inner teachings where peaceful, cooperative diffusion
      > of ancient peoples within the Americas took place. And from peoples of
      > many cultures and places who lived brilliantly, cooperatively in
      > harmony with each other and the environment countless centuries and
      > millinnea ago. And left few traces. I look more toward the
      > relationships of how we descendents are treating each other now, sharing
      > hospitality and knowledge from our own ancient wisdomkeepers.... Than I
      > am in what remains as phyical evidence or absence of, that many
      > profoundly spiritual cultures did not leave behind. From my
      > understandings and research in the socio-cultural sciences and
      > meditation in Nature, advanced spiritual human beings who knew this
      > world as the Creation, heaven, needed to re-create very little in the
      > image of mankind. And they were there too, besides all of the other
      > fine cultures who did leave interesting evidence. The old definition
      > of "Wausau" escapes me but pertains to water. Wausau on the cute little
      > map is where I carry forward my end of Ancient Waterways Society
      > intercommunications when not traveling. I am not alone at a crossroads
      > of incoming and outgoing knowledge and friendships in Four Directions,
      > wanting to bring the best of our experiences, strengths and hopes as
      > fearlessly as possible into what looks to be times of an unprecedented
      > nature and profound spiritually scientific and humanitarian global
      > opportunities. Steve and Jim Stevens, feel free to click into Ancient
      > Waterways Society web posts as you feel fit. Many of us are also
      > affiliated with, founders and/or sponsors of an international
      > association of scholarly scientists and dedicated researchers called The
      > Atlantic Conference, which recently had a conference at a university in
      > Nova Scotia. Web site is also below my salutation and has a nice
      > little YouTube video. The 6 DVD set is $65 and if you see yourselves
      > and Aztalan in the wholistic Atlantic Conference picture with the dozens
      > of serious scientists and others and are thinking of attending the one
      > on the NE coast in 2010 (if not sooner), feel free to borrow my or
      > proably Jim Scherz' set. Hope to see you and/or Aztalan represented at
      > the next conference of international researchers. And please keep me
      > and/or the Ancient Waterways members posted on the Offering Stone as
      > well as research projects and activities associated with Aztalan and its
      > surrounding ancient, sacred lands and waterways. M. Susan English
      > Ancient Wateways Society:
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/
      > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/>
      > <http://hometown.aol.com/suzenglish/myhomepage/profile.html> The
      > Atlantic Conference: http://www.atlanticconference.org/
      > <http://www.atlanticconference.org/> BeldingEnglish@...
      > <mailto:BeldingEnglish@... Oopa Loopa Cafe Radio interviews
      > (Thursday PM's): http://www.oopaloopacafe.com/
      > <http://www.oopaloopacafe.com/>
      > In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com , "Susan"
      > beldingenglish@ wrote Sat 16 Aug, 2008...:
      > With permission from Steve Stegerwald to my emailbox at the Atlantic
      > Conference this evening, I am inserting the following
      > correspondence, newest to the oldest. Should the photo not come
      > through, please email me. Rick Osman is standing next to me here at
      > the university in Halifax; the conference attendees representing dozens
      > of states, provinces, nations sang Happy Birthday to him at a dinner
      > overlooking the harbor, ocean....a dinner fit for a king or queen....
      > I had told a few people from Ancient Earthworks Society interested in a
      > group to feel free to join us or follow posts. Oone of that group might
      > also wish to start an Ancient Earthworks Society Yahoo group, too. In
      > the meantime, I have been given permission by the correspondents to
      > submit the following, which many of us believe may help in the return of
      > the missing sacred artifact at Atzalan, near Lake Mills, WI
      > From: Steven Steigerwald aztalan2008@... <mailto:aztalan2008@... :
      > suzenglish@ Date:
      > Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:28 pm
      > Hi,
      > Thanks for the great reply to the offering stone email Isent you. Sorry
      > for the late answer but I am having trouble with my yahoo email so
      > please change my email to aztalan2008@
      > I was able to forward your email to Jim Stevens. I have not been in
      > contact with him over your request for his email address. I hope he has
      > seen fit to contact you if he got your forwarded email. I am very
      > interested in the work you and your friends are doing. We have not found
      > the offering stone yet but some think it may have been a prank as a
      > small stone was left in place of the offering stone. Yes, please send
      > the info on the stone around, that was oked by Jim Stevens. Again sorry
      > for the late reply and thanks for your great reply.
      > Steven Steigerwald For the Aztalan Museum and myself ____________-
      > Aztalan offering stone From: Steven Steigerwald stevensteigerwald@
      > To: suzenglish@ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 3:00 pm
      > AttachmentOfferingStone.jpg
      > Hi, I understand you can contact Dr. Scherz. Would you please forward
      > him this. The "Offering Stone" in the photo with Dr. Scherz was taken
      > from the Aztalan Museum we think the night of 7-8-08. The other
      > attachment is from a Native American about the stone. I am having some
      > trouble with the attachments, hope this works.
      > Thanks Steve Steigerwald
      > From Jim Stevens:
      > It is thought that sometime on the night of July 8, 2008, the stone
      > disappeared from near one of the sacred hills at Aztalan. Around two fe
      > et in diameter, the "Grandfather" was discovered during the 1990s by
      > then caretaker Don Shuler, a man of Mohawk heritage. He found it one day
      > while clearing out some brush just south of the so-called Princess
      > Mound. In this mound was buried sometime in the eleventh or
      > twelfth century a young hunchback woman. In her twenties, she was laid
      > to rest upon a robe of sea-shell discs. When her resting-place was
      > breached early in the twentieth century, her remains were put on display
      > in the Milwaukee Public Museum. When this disgrace was removed through
      > protest by indigenous people, her bones were tossed indiscriminately
      > with others, into a box in the basement of the museum. The discovery of
      > the offering stone was received by traditional Native
      > Americans with respect and homage. The stone was re-sanctified.
      > People of the dominant culture, on the other hand, chose to regard it
      > with suspicion. It was not necessarily a part of Aztalan culture, it was
      > said. In the days leading up to the loss, on the Fourth of July, Aztalan
      > Days were held, a festival focusing on the pioneer town as well as the
      > ancient site. On this day a map was handed out, and it showed the
      > location of the stone. Within four days afterward, the Grandfather was
      > gone. I grieve in the wake of this disrespect, and as a Native
      > American who has for almost forty years attended the Spirit here, I feel
      > personally violated. This is not simply because of the immediate
      > material loss. My larger concern is the enormous disconnection which is
      > habit within the dominant culture. It is not true to perceive two
      > separate things, two separate time-scapes. Turtle Island, our indigenous
      > landscape, did not suddenly go away with the incursion of European
      > culture in this hemisphere. True Spirit is still in this place, and at a
      > sacred site such as Aztalan, traditional ways are still being practiced.
      > There is no rationale of "that was then, this is now." The offering
      > stone serves the same purpose as it always has: it is a focal point of
      > Native prayers. Aztalan has always been a place of Spirit. And a person
      > is not able to make the anthropological distinction, saying that
      > something would be, for example, not culturally "middle-mississippian"
      > (or Aztalan) but "woodland," as if to diminish it, to deny its value. To
      > do so is to not see the arrangement and totality of the sacred hills and
      > their consort objects.
      > The eye is forced to view the holistic quality of the sacred landscape
      > in order to carry an understanding of it. To take this one step
      > further: these hills and stones were placed here at various moments over
      > more than a thousand years. They still have their power as sacred
      > attributes. They are, in that regard, beyond time. And now that a piece
      > of the landscape, in the person of the offering stone, has been removed
      > by some recent misguided soul, once again is the world taken into
      > imbalance. This is a truth one should know.
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