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This Week's Show: Martin Carriere, Carrying the Chalice Forward

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  • Rick Osmon
    A Proud Sponsor of the Atlantic Conference Hello Loopers! In this issue: This Week s Show: Martin Carriere, Carrying the Chalice Forward Op/Ed: A reader s
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 3, 2008
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      A Proud Sponsor of the Atlantic Conference


      Hello Loopers! 


      In this issue:


      This Week's Show:   Martin Carriere, Carrying the Chalice Forward


      Op/Ed:  A reader's response


      This Day in History1775 - American Revolutionary War: George Washington takes command of the Continental Army at Cambridge, Massachusetts.


      Possum Holler News


      Other news:  Exploding Asteroid Theory Strengthened by New Evidence Located in Ohio, Indiana



      Events: Send your organization's events to  oz@...



      Last week's show:   Live from Bergen, Norway. Well, that was the title...



      Next week's show:  More run up to the Atlantic Conference


      Site of the week  Henson's Heritage







      This Week's Show:   Martin Carriere, Carrying the Chalice Forward



      First in the Atlantic Conference Speaker Series == Mr. Carriere is a Native North American who will enlighten us regarding the ancient connections across the Atlantic. "The sacred healing events and teachings of many of our families have created a tapestry of shrines and grottos from one coast to the other."
      I hope you can give a listen this week: Thursday at 9 PM EDT




      Op/Ed:   A reader's response


      Dear Oz,
      The diffusion database has changed enough toward our so-called position to warrant some objective  rather than simply interpretive conclusions about which paradigm here is correct.
      Matters of interpretation, in scholarly circles occasionally contend with matters of policy, both scholarly group policy and  overarching governmental policy.
      When the policy is supported  or certified by illegal and invasive behavior-enough, there is often a main threat seen as coming from dissidents, either to an elite group having some  Mega-cultural power or authority, or to more than one.
      Both the reasons for our ideas-only threat to others and someone or others' illegal and invasive responses need to be documented as part of the ordinary ongoing  shift or change of paradigm, which is just beginning to change.
      The idea that Carthage contacted  the New World  about 360-320 BC is indicated  by a main, several times copied,  Classical literary-historical text, as well as by coins databases and inscriptions.
      The database here is better than an interpretive matter, but not good enough to be pier-reviewed, clearly.
      But its objective reality-possibly status may be mitigated in a pier-review sense by a fact or a system that is not just about scholarly re-interpretations.
      This is what Farley meant by using the title, "Plain Sight."
      I had a high-school pal who would indicated that something was clearly good and genuine, by saying, "It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer,'
      This usually means, "In plain sight as true."
      But pier-review is supposed to adjudicate, only for publication, what is ether probable or "Reasonably possible.''
      That from Cadez-Huelva text, copied or partly copied and further interpreted by several Classical period scholars must clearly be re-interpreted, and the coins and inscriptions database must be interpreted anew and checked by a pier reviewer, before reasonable publication.
      Right now, the subject-itself of any  related-submitted  paper would not "Go" with any American pier reviewer, which is patently not-rational or ok anymore, objectively but not in a USA scholarly sense. This ceases to be merely an interpretive issue, unless the pier reviewer is in a very unlikely for now manner, interpreting the usefulness, for all other USA scholars the  subject itself.
      We think that the possibility of the 4th century BC Carthaginian contact with South America at least, is better than merely 'Interpretable" now. But not much, since its subject matter is also itself, widely banned as ok to published about by regular university employed scholars..
      You point out that the Sasquatch database seems even more controversial, and has been or become part of a set of academic threats, including shunning-avoidance,  and threats of censure,  against a tenured PHD scholar who has interpreted his databases as probably real also.
      There is a partial-remedial for scholars promoting the genuineness of many of these subjects, which includes an "Ancient Mysteries" label and a "Big-Deal TV look at"-and then a well-selling book or books, But these categorizations, in the USA,  insure a partial to most-of-it  shut-down for the scholar-involved's regular career.
      You also state that the main criticisms,  proposals to Censure, etc. have come mostly from scholars regularly using other, not-closely-related database-ing systems.
      Fingerhut, publishing in 1994, wrote a critical, long monograph essay on all scholars he could find then writing about diffusion beyond, "Same Continent interactions."
      He declared one such database-only! as reasonable and "Minimally-probable." This was the Whittall-Mcglone database [1989-91] on Eurasian materials, dating about 300-700 AD, and being found in several cavite sites in So. Colorado. Subsequent to this publication,  a shift in dating of some of these materials was proposed by DH Kelley and by some diffusionists, with their using  dating from a new then Pattinnation dating technique being experimented  with by an ASU Dept, Anthropology scholar.  
      This Pattinnation dating technique was rejected as useful formally by a committee of U of A-LTRR and ASU investigators, and by the proposing-scholar himself, by 1994. The erroneous dates continued to be promoted and used by two diffusionist-workers, until last year.
      Fingerhut [1994] also found that only one main, very-well- reputated scholar, David Humiston Kelley, had regularly and in a non-one-time basis published  positively about Trans-Continental, mostly Trans-Oceanic Diffusion, before Columbus, but actually before about 1412 AD-when Bristol traders began to interact with the western Atlantic. This finding by Fingerhut was in error.  About 7 main tenured University-employed scholars had published positively and substantively on trans-Atlantic diffusion.  
      Fingerhut then labeled Kelley a, "Rogue Scholar,'' writing a short essay included in his monograph describing Kelley's allegedly "Rogue" behaviors, and about why and how such scholars go, "Rogue." 
      Fingerhut was later Censured for publishing this set of labels-descriptions. Normally, Censures are not proposed for just writing about, publishing about a seen as very unlikely or wrong idea.   
      ! was involved in looking into the Pattinnation technique, not due to being part of any committee, but due to my having become interested, for the first time, in the diffusion controversy-in 1992, and being asked to by Bill Mcglone. I talked extensively to two U of A-LTRR scholars, both of whom I knew, about their negative findings-and reported back to Bill, and to Jim Whittall and Mike McLaughlin. I also talked to Kelley, who was my PHD Thesis director, and to whom I was talking about three times a week on long distance phone contacts, about the Rogue-labeling controversy, which had gone on before Fingerhut's publication.    
      We believe we need to further differentiate between matters of interpretation and more significant scholarly positions re. controversial History and Archeology,  which may involve more "Objective" conditions, such as 1. political correctness; 2. the use of the label, "Ancient Mysteries;" 3. required by USA, but not by most foreign, graduate schools; 4. "Required positions," such as the anti-diffusionist dictum of Samuel Elliot Morrison; and finally, ''Politically-allowed subjects of investigation."
      Dr. John-and Genny Molloy,
      Tucson, AZ.


      This section is for you, the audience. You are welcome to contribute to it either as a letter to the editor or an editorial. Submit your "stuff" to




      This Day in History


      324 - Battle of Adrianople Constantine I defeats Licinius, who flees to Byzantium. 987 - Hugh Capet is crowned King of France, the first of the Capetian dynasty which ruled France till the French Revolution in 1792. 1250 - Louis IX of France is captured by Baibars' Mamluk army at the Battle of Fariskur while he is in Egypt conducting the Seventh Crusade; he later has to ransom himself. 1608 - Québec City founded by Samuel de Champlain. 1754 - French and Indian War: George Washington surrenders Fort Necessity to French forces. 1767 - Pitcairn Island is discovered by Midshipman Robert Pitcairn on an expeditionary voyage commanded by Philip Carteret. 1767 - Norway's oldest newspaper still in print, Adresseavisen, is founded (first edition published this date). 1775 - American Revolutionary War: George Washington takes command of the Continental Army at Cambridge, Massachusetts. 1778 - American Revolutionary War: British forces massacre 360 men, women and children in the Wyoming Valley massacre.


      Possum Holler News:

        Home safe and sound from our Scandinavian adventure. It felt like we'd been in the air since 1986.


      Had a series of great visits with friends old and new. Visited some of Norway's finest museums and historical sites and saw one of the glaciers. Of course, it rained most of the time we were in Bergen, but that was expected. It's Bergen.


      Conducted a long interview with one of the Kommune officials at Bergen regarding the histroy of Bergen, Norse incursions to North America, and attitudes of scholars, but the recording was too poor to air, so I'll talk from notes at some future time..


      Oh, and it's raining at Possum Holler again. A major State highway north of here was cut through by the last round. Hopefully, this round will be less intense.



      Other news: 

      Exploding Asteroid Theory Strengthened by New Evidence Located in Ohio, Indiana

      Archaeologists to demonstrate ancient brewing - 5 days agoLast summer two Irish archaeologists proposed a theory which made worldwide headlines. They suggested that one of the most common archaeological monuments in the Irish landscape may have been used... 5,000-year-old jewellery workshop uncovered in Cyprus - 5 days agoArchaeologists have uncovered was appears to have been a jewellery workshop during excavations at the 5,000-year old Souskiou-Laona settlement (Cyprus). According to the Antiquities Department, a dens... Exciting find at an ancient Scottish homestead - 5 days agoArchaeologists and volunteers working at a Perthshire forest (Scotland) claim to have uncovered a 'very exciting' find. Excavations have revealed a stone entrance to the Black Spout enclosure,... Paris is 3,000 years older than first thought - 5 days agoParis has long been known to be a very old city but its history as a settlement has just been extended by more than 3,000 years. An archaeological dig moves... Neolithic burial site unearthed on the Isle of Man - 5 days ago

      Events: Send your organization's events to  oz@...


      The Atlantic Conference

       AKHA Meeting at Marilyn Michael’s home, July 20th

      Tony Prather: The Strange Case of Jonathan Swift and the Real Long John Silver. A Powerpoint Presentation.

      A local researcher presents his case for lost silver mines in Meade and Hardin County, Kentucky.


      AEGEAN      July 26th   2 PM   Falls of the Ohio

                  Out of the Aegean mystical past comes stories of  the man-eating Minotaur, of the great Battle of Troy, of a fabled Trojan Horse, of the murder of King Agamemnon and even of the legend of Atlantis.

       How much is legend, how much true? Was Plato’s account of Atlantis based on an actual civilization?

       Archaeologists unearth evidence of incredible early civilizations—on the island of Crete, in Turkey, and on the Greek mainland. 

                On one island that was almost totally destroyed, an archaeologist thinks he’s found the fabled Atlantis.

                This film takes us on a dazzling voyage over waves that surely also swept over the very origins of western culture.

       WARNER’s News of the World


      This program short will be presented sometime in the fall:

      The Point of Beginning

      At a point in Ohio, the survey of America began after the Lewis and Clark expedition. This little-know fact has great historical importance. We will see the marker and review the story of how it made possible for individuals to own property.


      Upcoming Conferences of Interest

      AAPS (Ancient  Artifact Preservation Society) Conference.  October 23—26, Marquette, MI.

      Focus: Bringing together diverse pieces of ancient America. This is the conference where Jim Michael presented the past three years. Lee & Joy Pennington, who presented films the last two years, will be presenting again this year. www.aaapf.org







      Last week's show


      Live from Bergen, Norway


      Oops, I didn't make it due to some technical problems. But Vince, William, Judi, and Frode made a good show anyway and Norway, though not Bergen, was represented (thanks Frode!)





      Next week's show:   More run up to the Atlantic Conference




      Site of the week:  Henson's Heritage







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