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Re: New Madrid Fault; Illinois quake

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  • bigalemc2
    Okay - This is fairly authoritative, but I am doing this off the top of my head. Susan, the New Madrid Quake was not ONE quake, but a series of at least
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 20, 2008
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      Okay -

      This is fairly authoritative, but I am doing this off the top of my head.

      Susan, the New Madrid 'Quake' was not ONE quake, but a series of at least THREE (USGS says 3) quakes 8.0 and above, with about 2,000 or more fore and after shocks.  The first struck on December 16, 1811, epicentered in NE Arkansas, by the Missouri bootheel.  There were actually TWO pretty equal ones on this date.  The other big ones occurred in January 23 and February 7, 1812.   All were at between at least 7.8 and as high as 8.3 on the Richter Scale.

      One source I read - the best I've ever seen, though not academically approved - said that there were actually FIVE quakes.  It was titled The Earthquake America Forgot - 2,000 Temblors in Five Months.  (A LOT of the book can be read at that link.)

      Unique features of these quakes:
      • "Sand blows" - literally geysers of sand blowing out of the ground.  The remnants are still quite visible on the landscape.
      • Yawing fissures actually did open up - and some reportedly DID swallow up people.  One fissure was between a farmhouse and its outhouse, and miraculously left both intact.
      • Mists/fogs came up from below.  Refugees had a hell of a time getting out of the area.
      • The Mississippi River literally ran backward for a while, after a portion of the river bottom swelled up, forcing the river to backtrack and then find a new route around the swell.
      • Flooding was extensive. also hindering refugees.
      • A new lake was formed, Reelfoot Lake, in Kentucky.  Actually many new ponds were formed, while other ones emptied due to rising ground.
      • Quite a few river boats were swamped, by river banks slumping into the Mississippi and creating mini-tsunamis.  This happened over a total length, of the Mississippi and even the Ohio River, of about maybe 150 miles in extent.  Other boats were actually sunk.
      • Houses fell into the Mississippi at New Madrid.
      • Two of the 8.0+ quakes were actually in Arkansas
      • Chimneys were toppled as far away as Chicago and Cincinnati.
      • Church bells rung from the shock waves as far away as Boston and Montreal and Charleston, SC
      People here might appreciate this much more than most - here are eyewitness accounts, which I have only just begun to read.  It is much better to have accounts from the time than later summaries or re-tellings.
      Eyewitness Accounts of the New Madrid Earthquakes 
      Ha!  This is great!  I found an account of the first steam riverboat on the Ohio-Mississippi system, and it was actually designed by Robert Fulton - and this was its first trip down the Mississippi!  Wow. 
      New Madrid 1811-1812 First Steamboat, Quakes, Comet
      I hope that titillates people a bit. . .

      . . . . Steve
    • bigalemc2
      Most of you probably know by now, but the Illinois quake was along the Wabash Valley Fault Line. This is along the Wabash River, which forms the lower 1/3 of
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 20, 2008
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        Most of you probably know by now, but the Illinois quake was along the Wabash Valley Fault Line.  This is along the Wabash River, which forms the lower 1/3 of the Illinois-Indiana border.

        As explained much better than is often done on CNN, with great maps, the Wabash Valley system appears to be an extension of the New Madrid system, but no fault lines were shown mapped across the center of southern Illinois.  Both systems have fault lines running SW-to-NE.

        The epicenter was about 26 miles SW of Vincennes, Indiana, and 6 miles east of Bone Gap, IL.  I've never heard of Bone Gap.  Olney is 22 miles NNW of the epicenter.

        . . . . Steve


        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
        All,
         
         Ancient Waterways member and engineer Vince Barrows from Illinois near St. Louis sent the following response to host Mike White at the PreColumbian Inscriptions site yesterday (see other posts at this excellent epigraphy group):
         http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/108\06
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10\806

        Does anyone know if the earthquake was along the Madrid fault?

        Rick Osman and his wife felt the quake in SW Indiana; my son and his wife did too near Chicago. And several people emailed to ask how the 5.3 affected Burrows Cave excavations near Olney. Wayne had said in an earlier phone conversation they are waiting for flood levels to subside before proceeding further. John White of Midwest Epigraphic Society emailed also on Friday that Wayne May was heading for Ohio to speak (yesterday) before one of the groups there.

      • Rick Osmon
        The Wabash Fault Zone is a hodgepodge of intersecting fault lines. I ve talked to several geology majors and none could explain how this occurred. Yes, the
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 21, 2008
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          The Wabash Fault Zone is a hodgepodge of intersecting fault lines. I've talked to several geology majors and none could explain how this occurred. Yes, the largest is right along the river. The zone extends to intersect the main fault and one of the secondary faults of New Madrid, under far western Kentucky,  and towards central Indiana.

          The only similar fault system I've been able to identify is under the southern end of the Arabian Peninsula and is also similar in its level of activity.

          Both areas are known for natural gas deposits and I've often wondered if the multiple fault lines are the result of a collapse of the gas dome after a major venting. Geologists usually attribute the "sand blows" or  "sand volcanoes " to seismic events, but a venting might have the same effect. The photo in the link is also close to the North Sea gas dome.

          There is also the question of: If petroleum was formed from diatoms, why is it always below the limestone dome? I think these things are probably all closely related, but I'm not the geologist.

          Oz


          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
          >
          > Most of you probably know by now, but the Illinois quake was along the
          > Wabash Valley Fault Line. This is along the Wabash River, which forms
          > the lower 1/3 of the Illinois-Indiana border.
          >
          > As explained much better than is often done on CNN, with great maps, the
          > Wabash Valley system appears to be an extension of the New Madrid
          > system, but no fault lines were shown mapped across the center of
          > southern Illinois. Both systems have fault lines running SW-to-NE.
          >
          > The epicenter was about 26 miles SW of Vincennes, Indiana, and 6 miles
          > east of Bone Gap, IL. I've never heard of Bone Gap. Olney is 22 miles
          > NNW of the epicenter.
          >
          > . . . . Steve
          >
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan"
          > beldingenglish@ wrote:
          > All,
          >
          > Ancient Waterways member and engineer Vince Barrows from Illinois near
          > St. Louis sent the following response to host Mike White at the
          > PreColumbian Inscriptions site yesterday (see other posts at this
          > excellent epigraphy group):
          >
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/108\
          > \06
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10\\
          > 806
          >
          > Does anyone know if the earthquake was along the Madrid fault?
          >
          > Rick Osman and his wife felt the quake in SW Indiana; my son and his
          > wife did too near Chicago. And several people emailed to ask how the 5.3
          > affected Burrows Cave excavations near Olney. Wayne had said in an
          > earlier phone conversation they are waiting for flood levels to subside
          > before proceeding further. John White of Midwest Epigraphic Society
          > emailed also on Friday that Wayne May was heading for Ohio to speak
          > (yesterday) before one of the groups there.
          >
        • bigalemc2
          Rick - Cool info. Thanks! I can t remember if I ve mentioned Thomas Gold. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold) He had a theory about the formation
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 21, 2008
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            Rick -

            Cool info. Thanks!

            I can't remember if I've mentioned Thomas Gold. (See
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold) He had a theory about the
            formation of oil that is at complete odds with the prevailing
            paradigm. I think it holds water - and oil, too.

            Gold asserted that oil is actually formed down in the mantle and has
            nothing at all to do with Permian swamps and decaying vegetation. He
            says that at the temps and pressures way down there, there are
            microbes that digest hydrocarbons, and that their byproducts are
            petroleum. He said that the fact that microbes are found
            in the oil is because the microbes were digesting the hydrocarbons.

            The paradigm about salt domes, which we all learned in school, has
            long since been found to be incorrect, as oil is found in many
            different formations. (All the gloom and doom about oil running out
            has been repeated several times in the relatively short history of
            petroleum. Discoveries in new kinds of formations have extended the
            known reserves over and over.)

            Gold's theory of oil being formed in the Deep Biosphere also means
            that, since the swamps are not the source (if he was correct), that
            oil is not a finite, non-replenishable resource. This is actually
            supported by the fact that depleted oil fields have been known to
            "somehow" replenish - to have more oil show up later, after the fields
            are emptied. The main stream explanation for this is that the oil
            seeps in from neighboring sources, laterally.

            Though Gold was a member in very good stead in the National Academy of
            Sciences, on this issue he was thought to be a kook of sorts. Having
            read his book, I think he is onto something.

            Time will tell if Gold was correct or not. I present it here to open
            minds a bit, and as a possible answer to Risk's question.

            The fact that the oil was UNDER the domes does suggest that the
            petroleum came from below and was trapped in its upward rise, does it
            not?

            The Wikipedia article on Gold explains all this very concisely, and
            presents the opposition arguments, also.

            . . . . Steve


            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Osmon"
            <ozman@...> wrote:
            >
            > The Wabash Fault Zone is a hodgepodge of intersecting fault lines.
            I've
            > talked to several geology majors and none could explain how this
            > occurred. Yes, the largest is right along the river. The zone extends
            to
            > intersect the main fault and one of the secondary faults of New
            Madrid,
            > under far western Kentucky, and towards central Indiana.
            >
            > The only similar fault system I've been able to identify is under the
            > southern end of the Arabian Peninsula and is also similar in its level
            > of activity.
            >
            > Both areas are known for natural gas deposits and I've often wondered
            if
            > the multiple fault lines are the result of a collapse of the gas dome
            > after a major venting. Geologists usually attribute the "sand blows"
            or
            > "sand volcanoes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_volcano> " to
            > seismic events, but a venting might have the same effect. The photo in
            > the link is also close to the North Sea gas dome.
            >
            > There is also the question of: If petroleum was formed from diatoms,
            why
            > is it always below the limestone dome? I think these things are
            probably
            > all closely related, but I'm not the geologist.
            >
            > Oz
          • Vincent Barrows
            Another 4.2 magnitude quake occurred today at 12:31 in illinois. Attached is a graph of the quakes from the last month. The the graph shows that the magnitude
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 25, 2008
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              Another 4.2 magnitude quake occurred today at 12:31 in illinois.
              Attached is a graph of the quakes from the last month. The the graph shows that the magnitude of the quakes is increasing around the world.
              Vince

              bigalemc2 <puppet@...> wrote:
              Most of you probably know by now, but the Illinois quake was along the Wabash Valley Fault Line.  This is along the Wabash River, which forms the lower 1/3 of the Illinois-Indiana border.

              As explained much better than is often done on CNN, with great maps, the Wabash Valley system appears to be an extension of the New Madrid system, but no fault lines were shown mapped across the center of southern Illinois.  Both systems have fault lines running SW-to-NE.

              The epicenter was about 26 miles SW of Vincennes, Indiana, and 6 miles east of Bone Gap, IL.  I've never heard of Bone Gap.  Olney is 22 miles NNW of the epicenter.

              . . . . Steve


              --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@ ...> wrote:
              All,
               
               Ancient Waterways member and engineer Vince Barrows from Illinois near St. Louis sent the following response to host Mike White at the PreColumbian Inscriptions site yesterday (see other posts at this excellent epigraphy group):
               http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Precolumbian_ Inscriptions/ message/108\ 06
              http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Precolumbian_ Inscriptions/ message/10\ 806

              Does anyone know if the earthquake was along the Madrid fault?

              Rick Osman and his wife felt the quake in SW Indiana; my son and his wife did too near Chicago. And several people emailed to ask how the 5.3 affected Burrows Cave excavations near Olney. Wayne had said in an earlier phone conversation they are waiting for flood levels to subside before proceeding further. John White of Midwest Epigraphic Society emailed also on Friday that Wayne May was heading for Ohio to speak (yesterday) before one of the groups there.



              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

            • Chris Patenaude
              Rick, im inna rush, gotta scoot. But Google THIS!! ah ah! Petroleum oil is NOT a fossil substance. Russian and many American geologists are beginning to stand
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 28, 2008
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                Rick, im inna rush, gotta scoot.
                But Google THIS!! ah ah!
                Petroleum oil is NOT a fossil substance. Russian and
                many American geologists are beginning to stand up
                against a brick wall of American scientific dogma
                (same as diffusionists battle against collegiate
                Historians) but with proof that oil is a mineral,
                earth-derived, geo-created substance, not an organic
                residue. It is not endless, but not nearly so 'finite'
                as a 'non-renewable' resource, as once thought. The
                earth is busy, somewhere, making more right now as we
                speak. I'm not clear at all about the details,
                however.

                Now COAL is organic. But not Petrol, according to
                cutting edge technology (American POV) but having well
                established acceptance in Russian science circles.
                Can anyone surf for that?

                Whizzin out the door...
                -c
                --- Rick Osmon <ozman@...> wrote:

                > The Wabash Fault Zone is a hodgepodge of
                > intersecting fault lines. I've
                > talked to several geology majors and none could
                > explain how this
                > occurred. Yes, the largest is right along the river.
                > The zone extends to
                > intersect the main fault and one of the secondary
                > faults of New Madrid,
                > under far western Kentucky, and towards central
                > Indiana.
                >
                > The only similar fault system I've been able to
                > identify is under the
                > southern end of the Arabian Peninsula and is also
                > similar in its level
                > of activity.
                >
                > Both areas are known for natural gas deposits and
                > I've often wondered if
                > the multiple fault lines are the result of a
                > collapse of the gas dome
                > after a major venting. Geologists usually attribute
                > the "sand blows" or
                > "sand volcanoes
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_volcano> " to
                > seismic events, but a venting might have the same
                > effect. The photo in
                > the link is also close to the North Sea gas dome.
                >
                > There is also the question of: If petroleum was
                > formed from diatoms, why
                > is it always below the limestone dome? I think these
                > things are probably
                > all closely related, but I'm not the geologist.
                >
                > Oz
                >
                >
                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                > "bigalemc2"
                > <puppet@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Most of you probably know by now, but the Illinois
                > quake was along the
                > > Wabash Valley Fault Line. This is along the
                > Wabash River, which forms
                > > the lower 1/3 of the Illinois-Indiana border.
                > >
                > > As explained much better than is often done on
                > CNN, with great maps,
                > the
                > > Wabash Valley system appears to be an extension of
                > the New Madrid
                > > system, but no fault lines were shown mapped
                > across the center of
                > > southern Illinois. Both systems have fault lines
                > running SW-to-NE.
                > >
                > > The epicenter was about 26 miles SW of Vincennes,
                > Indiana, and 6 miles
                > > east of Bone Gap, IL. I've never heard of Bone
                > Gap. Olney is 22
                > miles
                > > NNW of the epicenter.
                > >
                > > . . . . Steve
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                > "Susan"
                > > beldingenglish@ wrote:
                > > All,
                > >
                > > Ancient Waterways member and engineer Vince
                > Barrows from Illinois
                > near
                > > St. Louis sent the following response to host
                > Mike White at the
                > > PreColumbian Inscriptions site yesterday (see
                > other posts at this
                > > excellent epigraphy group):
                > >
                > >
                >
                http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/108\
                > \
                > > \06
                > >
                >
                http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10\\
                > \
                > > 806
                > >
                > > Does anyone know if the earthquake was along the
                > Madrid fault?
                > >
                > > Rick Osman and his wife felt the quake in SW
                > Indiana; my son and his
                > > wife did too near Chicago. And several people
                > emailed to ask how the
                > 5.3
                > > affected Burrows Cave excavations near Olney.
                > Wayne had said in an
                > > earlier phone conversation they are waiting for
                > flood levels to
                > subside
                > > before proceeding further. John White of Midwest
                > Epigraphic Society
                > > emailed also on Friday that Wayne May was heading
                > for Ohio to speak
                > > (yesterday) before one of the groups there.
                > >
                >
                >



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              • bigalemc2
                Chris - Hi. It seems you are talking about the abiogenic theory of oil. See message #530 below. I was excited about it and am into it as much as you seem to
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 28, 2008
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                  Chris -

                  Hi.  It seems you are talking about the abiogenic theory of oil.  See message #530 below.  I was excited about it and am into it as much as you seem to be.

                  I would love it if your comment about a lot of scientists being behind it were true.  I haven't yet found anything but scorn at the theory, at least in U.S. circles.  Whatever you have found, point me to it.

                  BTW, this is for the most part an off-topic post, as was my own for the most part.  I was rsponding to a comment by Rick about oil being UNDER domes.  If you want to carry this discussion via email, my address is shown.  (I assume others won't want this cluttering up the forum.)

                  In the meantime, I can recommend Thomas Gold's The Deep, Hot Biosphere .

                  Steve

                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Rick, im inna rush, gotta scoot.
                  > But Google THIS!! ah ah!
                  > Petroleum oil is NOT a fossil substance. Russian and
                  > many American geologists are beginning to stand up
                  > against a brick wall of American scientific dogma
                  > (same as diffusionists battle against collegiate
                  > Historians) but with proof that oil is a mineral,
                  > earth-derived, geo-created substance, not an organic
                  > residue. It is not endless, but not nearly so 'finite'
                  > as a 'non-renewable' resource, as once thought. The
                  > earth is busy, somewhere, making more right now as we
                  > speak. I'm not clear at all about the details,
                  > however.
                  >
                  > Now COAL is organic. But not Petrol, according to
                  > cutting edge technology (American POV) but having well
                  > established acceptance in Russian science circles.
                  > Can anyone surf for that?
                  >
                  > Whizzin out the door...
                  > -c

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