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Re: Monks Mound

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  • Susan
    Vince, Rick, and All, Despite current inactivity of the group, thanks Rick for continuing announcement about Oopa Loopa Cafe. Being on the road for some time
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 10, 2008
      Vince, Rick, and All,

      Despite current inactivity of the group, thanks Rick for continuing
      announcement about Oopa Loopa Cafe. Being on the road for some time
      volunteering with Red Cross and paid traveling nurse assignment, I've
      missed all programs since the conference. Looking forward to hearing
      the Michael Cremo program; many are amazed you have been able to book
      such varied, interesting, oftentimes renowned speakers to your weekly
      radio programs.

      Vince, thanks for keeping this site up to day with your latestt notes
      and link re: the effects upon the professional community in lieu of
      your and others' continuing work at Cahokia and Monks Mound. I only
      briefly visited the area off-season years ago on a day Pam Giese from
      this group also happened to be there. The grounds are so vast neither
      of us knew the other was there. Pam, are you living in England now?

      Rick, I need to contact you about obtaining a copy of Vince Burrow's
      very professionally done, yet impromptu talk and Powerpoint (?)
      presentation on Cahokia at the Ohio conference. Members here should
      know know that, by the end of the talk, there was was standing room
      only. Several attending the lecture in the other room are also
      interested in viewing my copy soon as it gets here.

      I need to re-visit Cahokia sometime, was hoping in the very near
      future one of our affiliate organizations would host a conference,
      symposium or preferably, small, earthy and informal field trips,
      perhaps campfire "study group" on Cahokia and nearby ancient
      waterways/diffusion. If I can get down there, I shall phone ahead,
      perhaps bring down writer-researcher David Hoffman and others to meet
      for a possible personal tour, mini "Ancient Waterways Society" open
      meeting. Anyone else is welcome; I am always available for relevant
      mini-meetings anywhere. Will serve whomever comes to homemade soup,
      bread, dessert--campfire style within the context of the nearest
      natural setting campground.

      Rick,
      A mini meeting down in Indiana might be fun too; I hear you live near
      that cave I took a boat ride through in total blackness...everything
      in there was albino. Just like the nearby albino squirrels that are
      famous in Olney, Illinois near the supposed Burrows Cave.
      Would be a fun long weekend, informal camping deal. I'd flea makret
      a day ahead for travel money and set up camp, food. You can do tour
      directing and help lead campfire talks to whoever shows up. Doesn't
      have to be a big group nor bear anyone expenses beyond travel costs.

      Whereever one, two people or a dozen amicable and noncompetitive
      persons are gathered....this makes a fine meeting. And progresses our
      globally-oriented, ecologically sound diffusion work in times which
      call for increasing haste to synergize our work.

      I suggest a profound book which might call to you, from the 80's:
      Apache-descendant, Ken Carey's "Return of the Bird Tribes". Perhaps
      you may find yourself in such quantum realms. I've no doubt many
      within our small ancient waterways group are in many ways affiliated
      with the return of teaching, leadaership and wisdom of these
      descendants.

      SisterSuz, Future Wise Elders of America

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Vincent Barrows
      <v_barrows@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Rick;
      > Thanks for talking with me again, and great show as always. The
      monks Mound response from the professional community is located here:
      >
      http://virtual.parkland.edu/ias/member_com/announcements/announcements
      .htm
      >
      > Here is a copy and paste of their specific repsonse.
      >
      > My Notes on the Monk's Mound Discussions at the Annual
      Conference: Paula Cross of IHPA was given the opportunity to address
      the IAS Board at our meeting of 14 September and she graciously
      accepted the charge. First, she noted that IHPA's slump stabilization
      plan was carefully worked out over a period of several years. This
      observation was well documented in the Saturday morning presentations
      as was the need for such a plan. Secondly, she observed that
      no "permitting" requirements had been violated and that in
      fact "permitting" did not apply to government agencies working on
      government land. Instead there is a protocol of "approval" that is
      required and that IHPA was very careful to comply with the protocol.
      Thirdly, her only concession to the voiced concerns of some Board
      members was that she allowed as how, from the perspective of IHPA,
      greater prior communication with the IAS would have been useful.
      Because Paula appeared to work hard at not directly responding to
      > questions about a re-established Cahokia Committee, I suggested
      that in the future IHPA offer a brief summary of planned events at
      the IAS annual meetings. She indicated that it was not within the
      range of her job description to provide such communications and that
      maybe we should talk to Anne Hacker of IHPA. Mark Wagner inquired
      when a final publication of results could be expected and the
      response was, "In a year of two." When no answer was extended to the
      question of where the material was to be published, I suggested that
      we offer a dedicated volume of IA in 2009 as a publication vehicle.
      The operational or field decisions regarding control over the
      activity of the hoe operator and how much and which of the
      undisturbed mound fill to remove remained glossed with the assertion
      that, "We had someone there all of the time keeping an eye on the
      mechanical excavation." The response to the question of whether this
      was at times only Dr. Kidder's graduate student volunteer
      > was, "Yes." The determination of not screening the undisturbed
      matrix was explained by the statement that "Â…over 90% of what was
      removed was material that had been deposited during previous mound
      slump repair activities." Apparently all of the material removed from
      the mound has been isolated and stockpiled, although there is no plan
      to screen it. It does appear that the geotechnic run-up to the
      ultimate choice of strategy of repair was well crafted. Also after
      the hoe work was completed, the hand work and data collection
      proceeded in accordance with IHPA published standards. At the
      Saturday morning paper session there was some further discussion of
      the Cahokia Committee. While Paula Cross did not contribute, Fellows
      Mark Esarey and John Kelly were pressed very hard by colleagues
      bearing concerns over the slump stabilization strategy and
      methodology. On balance, Kelly noted that if we, or anybody, wanted
      to know what was happening at Cahokia, we should join the
      > Cahokia Museum Society. However, the IAS's discussions and issues
      are with IHPA and not the project contractor and it is not clear
      whether this was an agency position statement or a personal, visceral
      response. Actually, as nearly as I could determine, IHPA really did
      not directly respond to questions and thoughts regarding re-
      establishing the Cahokia Committee. Questions were somehow just re-
      directed and thereby avoided. On review, my conclusion is that IHPA
      is opposed to the concept of the Cahokia Committee and would not
      willingly participate in its installation or respond to its
      recommendations. In fairness, as several Fellows have noted to me, no
      state or federal agency would willingly endorse an external oversight
      committee. I don't know how the IAS could compel IHPA's acquiescence
      to such a committee's presence. Given the current relatively
      apolitical posture of the IAS, it seems to me that participation
      would be entirely at IHPA' s pleasure and discretion. Lastly,
      > in all truthfulness, the IAS, as a voluntary association, is
      likely not capable of adequately and correctly assuming such
      responsibilities. Just look at the situation with our standing
      committees and their need to be recreated almost every time they are
      called to action. Let me state in conclusion that I fail to see how
      the IAS could force the IHPA (or IDOT, or IDNR, or the Shawnee
      National Forest, or the COE) to accept an external, archaeological
      oversight committee. I think that such a feat is theoretically
      possible, but it would require concerted political activity for which
      the organization has, in my perception, neither the heart, patience,
      nor skill. Our Board is continuing its discussions of the situation
      and will likely have a proposal available for comment in the near
      future. Stelle, President
      >
      > ---
      >
      > Incidentally, my review of the fiasco was recently published in
      the Wotanging Ikche, on Nanews.org in the Dec 15th issue.
      >
      > Thank you;
      > VInce Barrows
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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