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more on ancient Aztalan Mounds and origin of name

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  • Susan
    Interesting, ambiguous paragraph about Aztalan s origins from the current Aztalan Mounds Calendar of Events. The state park is located west of Madison,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 7 11:04 AM
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      Interesting,  ambiguous paragraph about Aztalan's  origins from the current Aztalan Mounds Calendar of Events.  The state park is located west of Madison, Wisconsin. a must-see if in that area of Wisconsin but if you really want to hear some side-stepping or double-talk, go on a $2 tour of the museum and grounds.
      At least this brochure now acknowledges "possible Mexican influence". 
      I tacked this message to a thread of posts re: Latham and Hyer mentioned a few years ago at this site on this subject. 

      ..." Sunday August 17, 2:00pm: The site of Aztalan at Aztalan State Park was named by Nathanial Hyer in 1837 for the place the Aztec people of Mexico identified as their original homeland. Although the site has nothing to do with the Aztecs, some scholars believe that the broader culture, the Mississippian, had contacts with ancient Mexican societies. In honor of the name and possible Mexican influence, the Friends of Aztalan State Park have once again invited the spectacular Aztec dancers of the Ballet Folklorico de Mexico to perform at Aztalan State Park. The event itself is free but is being used as fund raiser for the planned new visitor's center at the park, so donations will be gladly accepted. A Wisconsin state park vehicle sticker is required but can be purchased at the park." 


      Susan English -- from my iPad

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
      > Sent by a non-member observer who does not have Posting privileges,
      > this seems to be the origin of the name Aztalan to the once-pyramid
      > shaped mound. Suggests perhaps too names such as Tyranena Park
      > (recently Tyranena Brewery!). I have seen various spellings of Tyranena
      > when exploring shorelines, seas, and deep ceynote caves in the Yucatan
      > Peninsula, near the Tulum ruins. (I am invited to a possibly week long
      > birthday party on 12-12-12 at the Tulum ruins via friends I met from
      > all over the world when helping with the 2012 Prophets Conference in
      > Cancun last winter. Travel prices will likely be dirt 'cheap' because of
      > public fear of 12-21-2012 disasters :)
      > Also in the following twp links is the first mention I have seen of
      > "Aztalan brick" and details indicating that most of what remain today
      > are reconstructions. Fortunately, articles and web sites as the
      > following, plus surveys, reports of professional investigations by
      > multi-disciplinary teams of archaelogist, geologists, and others working
      > together will continue to get to larger, more comprehensive truths and
      > layers upon layers of culture often within many sites along significant
      > ancient waterways. Over thousands rather than hundreds of years in
      > time. Such as the Miami Circle-Bay of Biscayne...and Aztalan. One of
      > the sites shows photos of the Princess Mound, remains, and further
      > complications surrounding this site. I continue to be indebted to Jim
      > Stevens for his letter and will keep it close to me. Thank you Steve
      > Steigerwald. Please feel free to post here as I am only an infrequent
      > visitor to Aztlalan and know only what I hear, see, find on the Internet
      > in making interconnections with people, places and resources which may
      > shed light onto not just the more recent historic past, but very ancient
      > past. Which to me seems at least as navigatable, and sometimes
      > astoundingly remarkable when considering surveys and evidences of
      > brilliant mathematical patterns, alignments, and design that links
      > 'heaven and earth' to that of humankind.
      > From Wisconsin Geneological Trails group:
      > http://genealogytrails.com/wis/jefferson/Aztalan.html
      > and from
      > the Friends of Aztalan State Park group:
      > http://www.orgsites.com/wi/aztalan/_pgg9.php3
      > (Steve Steigerwald-is
      > the latter one of your links?)
      > In '1836, N. F. Hyer committed the first rough survey of the site,
      > publishing the discovery in the Milwaukie Advertiser of January 1837.
      > According to Lapham:
      > "The name Aztalan was given to this place by Mr. Hyer, because,
      > according to Humboldt, the Aztecs, or ancient inhabitants of Mexico, had
      > a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which
      > they called Aztalan; and the possibility that these may have been
      > remains of their occupancy, suggested the idea of restoring the name. It
      > is made up of two Mexican words, atl, water, and an, near; and the
      > country was probably so named from its proximity to large bodies of
      > water. Hence the natural inference that the country about these great
      > lakes was the ancient residence of the Aztecs."
      > and from the second account:
      > Nathaniel F. Hyer gave the name "Aztalan" to the site the pioneers
      > called the "Ancient City." The truncated pyramidal mounds within a
      > stockade on the banks of the Crawfish River seemed to be the site
      > described in an Aztec legend. Reported by Baron Alexander von Humboldt,
      > an early student of Indian antiquities, the legend said the Aztecs had
      > come from a land by flowing waters far to the north of their Mexican
      > home.
      > Hyer wrote that "We are determined to preserve these ruins from being
      > ruined." However, in 1838, President Martin Van Buren refused a request
      > by Massachusetts statesman Edward Everett to withdraw the site from
      > public sale, and the site was sold for $22. In the following years, the
      > surface was plowed, the mounds were leveled for easier farming, pottery
      > shards and "Aztalan brick" were hauled away by the wagonload to fill in
      > potholes in township roads, and souvenir hunters took numerous
      > artifacts.
      > Anyone visiting the site now needs to consider the possibilites again of
      > layers of peoples visiting, dwelling, constructing these sites, as well
      > as the admirable reconstruction and preservation efforts. Aside from
      > the physical empirical evidence, I listen too, to the legends, and look
      > to the maps, terraine and signs where ancient and early historic
      > waterways once interconnected many peoples from distances near and far.
      > Susan .... "The human mind is designed to be empowered by age rather
      > than enfeebled by it" (glad we are empowering our minds together within
      > associations such as this, folks)
      > > http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/Antiquities/antiqHome.html#TOC
      > > AS
      > > BY
      > > I. A. LAPHAM
      > > WASHINGTON D.C.
      > > JUNE 1855 from Chapter 3, Section 2 - ANCIENT WORKS AT AND IN THE
      > > VICINITY OF AZTALAN: ....The only ancient work resembling this in its
      > > general features heretofore described, is that of Tuloom [Tulum] in
      > > Yucatan, of which an account is given by Mr. Stephens, and quoted by
      > Mr.
      > > Squier1 . This is an inclosure of about the same dimensions, and
      > bounded
      > > on the east by the sea; it consists of a loose stone wall, with
      > > watch-towers at the two west corners, corresponding with the two large
      > > pyramidal mounds at Aztalan, except that they are placed on the
      > walls...
      > > [see Stephens description]
      > > ..... Do not these facts warrant the suggestion that the people of
      > > Aztalan, in Wisconsin, were a different people, in many respects, from
      > > those who erected the animal-shaped mounds? This location may possibly
      > > have been occupied by a colony of Mexicans; since we know that
      > colonies
      > > were sometimes sent out by that singular people.1 1 Squier's
      > > Nicaragua, Vol. II.
      > >
      > > I realize these texts were written 150 years ago and considerably more
      > > scientific data has been added to the larger historical and
      > > archaelogical records since then. Yet I have long wondered why
      > > frequent, long-term, likely two way diffusion-(via travel, trade,
      > > genetic, etc.) by the mound/pyramid builders between the Mississippi
      > > Riverways and Aztalan/the Yucatan and beyond is considered a stretch
      > of
      > > the imagination and/or lacking substantiative evidence. I'd be more
      > > surprised--and it seems to me an insulting, undermining of the
      > cultures
      > > and peoples---to believe that no contact took place between these vast
      > > regions and cultural groups. Especially taking into consideration the
      > > proficient abilities of watercraft construction and navigation by
      > > ancient, aboriginal peoples living/navigating along interconnecting
      > > water routes within and between the Americas. And pondering countless
      > > reasons human beings the world 'round have always needed, wanted, even
      > > curiously desired to travel beyond ones boundaries, clan, and 'own
      > > comfortable kind'.
      > >
      > > Nevertheless, I am grateful folks from this group are making such
      > > inquiries and inter-/intra-continental travels. It is also great to
      > see
      > > fairly frequent, incoming members to our group. Please keep posting
      > > about ancient or significant waterways nearest your home, or your
      > > family's places of origin ...
      > >
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