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Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps

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  • Vincent Barrows
    Here is a site to examine sturgeon depictions http://www2.brandonu.ca/library/CJNS/18.2/cjnsv18no2_pg203-232.pdf
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 26, 2013
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      Here is a site to examine sturgeon depictions

      http://www2.brandonu.ca/library/CJNS/18.2/cjnsv18no2_pg203-232.pdf


      From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>;
      To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
      Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 1:04:39 AM

       

      Ted,

      I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the fish traps of the Eastern United States".  

      I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison, WI).  On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group. 

      Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as you have strongly advocated.   I believe many here will appreciate the information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to Ask".

      We at AWS know who to ask.  Thank you, Bill...please keep posting.  And Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.  

      I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives. 

      Susan English, Central Wisconsin

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
      >
      > Here is a site to examine.
      >
      > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-fishweir.html
      >
      > Hope your health is getting better.
      >
      > ted
      > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Ted,
      > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
      > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
      > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
      > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
      > > from various documents.
      > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
      > > interested in my interests.
      > > Bill Frazier
      > >
      > >
      >
    • william smith
      Susan   It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 27, 2013
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        Susan
          It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its most practical use was to process fish. Their are more ancient fish traps in R.I than all of the other states combined. These stone structures still exist on the sea coast as well as in small streams. Many propose this was a process used by native Americans, however study shows it was a common process for fisherman from Europe.
        William
        --- On Wed, 6/26/13, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:

        From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013, 9:05 PM

         
        http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf

        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
        >
        > Ted,
        > I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this
        > beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by
        > archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the
        > fish traps of the Eastern United States".
        > I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon
        > after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan
        > webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison,
        > WI). On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which
        > I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group.
        > Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as
        > you have strongly advocated. I believe many here will appreciate the
        > information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You
        > Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to
        > Ask".
        > We at AWS know who to ask. Thank you, Bill...please keep posting. And
        > Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.
        > I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject
        > heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives.
        >
        > Susan English, Central Wisconsin
        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
        > >
        > > Here is a site to examine.
        > >
        > >
        > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-f\
        > ishweir.html
        > >
        > > Hope your health is getting better.
        > >
        > > ted
        > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Ted,
        > > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
        > > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
        > > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
        > > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
        > > > from various documents.
        > > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
        > > > interested in my interests.
        > > > Bill Frazier
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Susan
        William, Bill and others might have more insight on this, but as to which US state has the most ancient fish weirs, I do not know how one would make an
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 27, 2013
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          William,

          Bill and others might have more insight on this, but as to which US state has the most ancient fish weirs, I do not know how one would make an accurate count over the span of millinnea these were used.   There seems to have been so little information on the subject...as in this research thesis on ancient fish weirs twenty years ago stating little archaelogical data, research studies had been done up to that point.  http://www.lutins.org/thesis/#1.1

          I would suspect means and styles used for seawater fish processing (cod, as your  research on the Newport tower states) in early historic times differed from freshwater stream/lake/river weirs used  in ancient times.   That the latter were used prolifically far back--millinnea ago--within the Americas.  And , as  with ancient earthworks, artifacts, human remains.... countless numbers irretrievably, immeasurably long gone.  Hence the importance of preservationist efdorts and current studies on the subject.
          Thank you.

          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, william smith wrote:
          >
          > Susan
          >   It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its most practical use was to process fish. Their are more ancient fish traps in R.I than all of the other states combined. These stone structures still exist on the sea coast as well as in small streams. Many propose this was a process used by native Americans, however study shows it was a common process for fisherman from Europe.
          > William
          > --- On Wed, 6/26/13, Susan beldingenglish@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Susan beldingenglish@...
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013, 9:05 PM
          >
          > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
          > >
          > > Ted,
          > > I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this
          > > beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by
          > > archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the
          > > fish traps of the Eastern United States".
          > > I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon
          > > after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan
          > > webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison,
          > > WI). On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which
          > > I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group.
          > > Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as
          > > you have strongly advocated. I believe many here will appreciate the
          > > information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You
          > > Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to
          > > Ask".
          > > We at AWS know who to ask. Thank you, Bill...please keep posting. And
          > > Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.
          > > I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject
          > > heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives.
          > >
          > > Susan English, Central Wisconsin
          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Here is a site to examine.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-f\
          > > ishweir.html
          > > >
          > > > Hope your health is getting better.
          > > >
          > > > ted
          > > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Ted,
          > > > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
          > > > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
          > > > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
          > > > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
          > > > > from various documents.
          > > > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
          > > > > interested in my interests.
          > > > > Bill Frazier
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
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