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Re: elephants

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  • Jither
    Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs: either an elephant s or a mamoth s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times,
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 6, 2013
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      Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

       

      It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

       

      And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

       

      -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

       

       

    • Ted Sojka
      Jither The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile. I also was told that long after mammoths were around,
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 6, 2013
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        Jither
        The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   
        ted

        On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:

         

        Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

         

        It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

         

        And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

         

        -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

         

         



      • Larry Hancock
        Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times.  ... From: Ted Sojka
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 6, 2013
        Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times. 

        --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:

        From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
        To: "Jither" <jither@...>
        Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

         

        Jither
        The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   
        ted

        On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:

         

        Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

         

        It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

         

        And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

         

        -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

         

         



      • Jither
        Larry- Why do you say Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named? From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Message 4 of 12 , Apr 7, 2013
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          Larry-   Why do you say Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named?

           

           

          From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
          Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:26 AM
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants [2 Attachments]

           

           

          [Attachment(s) from Larry Hancock included below]

          Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times. 

          --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:


          From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
          To: "Jither" <jither@...>
          Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

           

          Jither

          The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   

          ted

           

          On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:



           

           

          Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

           

          It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

           

          And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

           

          -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

           

           

          Error! Filename not specified.

           

        • Larry Hancock
          Because it looks like an elephant. ... From: Jither Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants To:
          Message 5 of 12 , Apr 7, 2013
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            Because it looks like an elephant.

            --- On Sun, 4/7/13, Jither <jither@...> wrote:

            From: Jither <jither@...>
            Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, April 7, 2013, 7:47 PM

             

            Larry-   Why do you say Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named?

             

             

            From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
            Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:26 AM
            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants [2 Attachments]

             

             

            [Attachment(s) from Larry Hancock included below]

            Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times. 

            --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:


            From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
            Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
            To: "Jither" <jither@...>
            Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

             

            Jither

            The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   

            ted

             

            On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:



             

             

            Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

             

            It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

             

            And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

             

            -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

             

             

            Error! Filename not specified.

             

          • C TRAYLOR
            -- Try this in your search window: pygmy elephant california =========================== * *
            Message 6 of 12 , Apr 7, 2013
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            • Jither
              Oh. You mean it looks like it has a trunk and tusks? Can you find a pic, and paste it into an email (I don’t open attachments- they rarely work for me
              Message 7 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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                Oh.  You mean it looks like it has a trunk and tusks?  Can you find a pic, and paste it into an email (I don’t open attachments-  they rarely work for me when I try).  We have a mountain in Vermont, called Camel’s Hump, but no way does it look like a camel or a camel’s hump.  No one seems to be able to figure out the name.

                 

                I’ve been to and driven by Elephant Hill in So. Royalton, Vt many times and no way does it look like any kind of animal, so I don’t know why you said it’s aptly named.  Nonsensical, to me, at least.  I was thinking perhaps someone found elephant bones there (as in Charlotte, Vt), but you want to insist the hill looks like an elephant.  Jeesh.

                 

                 

                From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
                Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:24 PM
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants

                 

                 

                Because it looks like an elephant.

                --- On Sun, 4/7/13, Jither <jither@...> wrote:


                From: Jither <jither@...>
                Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, April 7, 2013, 7:47 PM

                 

                Larry-   Why do you say Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named?

                 

                 

                From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
                Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:26 AM
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants [2 Attachments]

                 

                 

                [Attachment(s) from Larry Hancock included below]

                Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times. 

                --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:


                From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
                Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
                To: "Jither" <jither@...>
                Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

                 

                Jither

                The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   

                ted

                 

                On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:

                 

                 

                 

                Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

                 

                It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

                 

                And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

                 

                -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

                 

                 

                Error! Filename not specified.

                 

              • Jither
                Thank you!!!! Never heard of these pygmy elephants! I read the Wiki article on them. Seems these California Channel Island pygmy elephants were still
                Message 8 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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                  Thank you!!!!  Never heard of these pygmy elephants!   I read the Wiki article on them.  Seems these California Channel Island pygmy elephants were still living around 10,000 to 11,000 years ago-  indeed, prehistoric.  But historically, could some type of elephant or mammoth been alive in No. America?  That is, even pre-Columbus?  There were northern traders (mainly French) and fishermen (Eng/Irish/Norse) for many years before Columbus came over, in the St Lawrence watershed area, and continuing down the coast of New England;  the Grand Banks, for example, was fished for cod long before Columbus.  So, maybe these European folk sighted elephants?   I still don’t think so, just because the climate would not allow. 

                   

                  Your thoughts?

                   

                   

                  From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C TRAYLOR
                  Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:21 PM
                  To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants

                   

                   



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                • Larry Hancock
                  I posted Google Earth photos originally. Complete elephant from tail to trunk, but legless. The S. Royalton tag is in the middle of the body. ... From: Jither
                  Message 9 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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                    I posted Google Earth photos originally. Complete elephant from tail to trunk, but legless. The S. Royalton tag is in the middle of the body.

                    --- On Mon, 4/8/13, Jither <jither@...> wrote:

                    From: Jither <jither@...>
                    Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, April 8, 2013, 9:40 AM

                     

                    Oh.  You mean it looks like it has a trunk and tusks?  Can you find a pic, and paste it into an email (I don’t open attachments-  they rarely work for me when I try).  We have a mountain in Vermont, called Camel’s Hump, but no way does it look like a camel or a camel’s hump.  No one seems to be able to figure out the name.

                     

                    I’ve been to and driven by Elephant Hill in So. Royalton, Vt many times and no way does it look like any kind of animal, so I don’t know why you said it’s aptly named.  Nonsensical, to me, at least.  I was thinking perhaps someone found elephant bones there (as in Charlotte, Vt), but you want to insist the hill looks like an elephant.  Jeesh.

                     

                     

                    From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
                    Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:24 PM
                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants

                     

                     

                    Because it looks like an elephant.

                    --- On Sun, 4/7/13, Jither <jither@...> wrote:


                    From: Jither <jither@...>
                    Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, April 7, 2013, 7:47 PM

                     

                    Larry-   Why do you say Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named?

                     

                     

                    From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hancock
                    Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:26 AM
                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants [2 Attachments]

                     

                     

                    [Attachment(s) from Larry Hancock included below]

                    Elephant Hill in S. Royalton is aptly named, but I doubt it has anything to do with elephants in ancient times. 

                    --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:


                    From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
                    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants
                    To: "Jither" <jither@...>
                    Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

                     

                    Jither

                    The elephant hill is a place also in Northeast Iowa also, and looks like an elephant in profile.  I also was told that long after mammoths were around, the shape of their hide was made from other animal skins for certain get together-s, and reunions of parts of tribes long separated.   

                    ted

                     

                    On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jither wrote:

                     

                     

                     

                    Regarding elephants in Old America, at least in these (Vermont) environs:  either an elephant’s or a mamoth’s bones were found, I believe in Victorian times, near the RR tracks, in Charlotte, Vermont (just east of Lake Champlain);  age unknown.  Also, there are some curious place names: Elephant Valley/Elephant Hill, in So. Royalton, Vt (home of the Beehive Domes-   another mystery).

                     

                    It’s extremely interesting that any (wild) elephant would be sighted by anyone in historic times in No. America!  Would the temperatures/environment allow for that?  I don’t think so.  Could it possibly be a remnant of a type of elephant that ‘evolved’ over here, to live in what must, for it, have been an impossible climate, and then died out?  If so, there must be remains that could be dated, all over the place!

                     

                    And then there are the remains of the tropical/palm forests that have been dug up in Alaska.  Hmmmm. 

                     

                    -Jither (in Vermont, USA)

                     

                     

                    Error! Filename not specified.

                     

                  • Ted Sojka
                    They are referring to Mammoths and Mastodons in most cases in pre history. One entire group of skeletons is being excavated in Iowa in recent years that was
                    Message 10 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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                      They are referring to Mammoths and Mastodons in most cases in pre history.  One entire group of skeletons is being excavated in Iowa in recent years that was found in the banks of a stream.  One famous finds was found in the banks of the Kickappoo River in Wisconsin and is now a display at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. 

                      Vince Barrow shared a newspaper article of a mammoth bone in Florida near Vero Beach. It had a drawing of a mammoth etched in the bone when it was fresh.  

                      Names have been given to hills and rocks that resemble other things in many places.  

                      PS The pigmy mammoth was also found on Wrangle Island north of Siberia.  Reports say that as the population of them grew, their size was reduced to lack of food.  The large ones died out and the small survived.  National Geographic has some stories on these animals including the ones found in the channel islands along with tools of those who hunted them.   

                      Be well all
                      ted
                      On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Jither wrote:

                       

                      Thank you!!!!  Never heard of these pygmy elephants!   I read the Wiki article on them.  Seems these California Channel Island pygmy elephants were still living around 10,000 to 11,000 years ago-  indeed, prehistoric.  But historically, could some type of elephant or mammoth been alive in No. America?  That is, even pre-Columbus?  There were northern traders (mainly French) and fishermen (Eng/Irish/Norse) for many years before Columbus came over, in the St Lawrence watershed area, and continuing down the coast of New England;  the Grand Banks, for example, was fished for cod long before Columbus.  So, maybe these European folk sighted elephants?   I still don’t think so, just because the climate would not allow. 

                       

                      Your thoughts?

                       

                       

                      From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C TRAYLOR
                      Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:21 PM
                      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: elephants

                       

                       



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                    • Susan
                      Welcome to the new members. What I find most intriguing after reading several articles on the dwarf elephant or mammoth in and around the Channel Islands is
                      Message 11 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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                        Welcome to the new members.

                        What I find most intriguing after reading several articles on the  dwarf elephant or mammoth in and around the Channel Islands is the possibility of its existance 20,000-47,000 + years ago and it alleged abilities as a distance swimmer.  One such article below.  Good comments, and thanks for beinging up this subject again.

                        http://www.mednscience.org/sites/default/files/products/Agenbroad_Mammoths_Humans_0.pdf

                        I like to search the Ancient Waterways archives here as know many members  have taken time to post  thoughtful comments and brought forward previous research subjects as this.  Just under "elephant" alone, for example ---not even including "mastadon" or "mammoth" --- are  thirty-nine posts from this group dating  back to 2007:

                        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/msearch?query=Elephants&pos=30&cnt=10

                        Susan

                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, C TRAYLOR <trayloroo@...> wrote:
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