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Re: Iron smelting in Ohio

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  • trayloroo
    Thank you. I am trying to recall one of the pioneers in this area, he built himself a little airplane. He wrote a book on this subject. I have heard him
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 17, 2012
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      Thank you. I am trying to recall one of the pioneers in this area, he built himself a little airplane. He wrote a book on this subject. I have heard him speak, in Salt Lake City it seems. We corresponded some. A prince of a fellow, personable, very generous.

      In his area of finds, he had evidence that suggested the normal river banks then were up ... near the stones. Today, there it is hard to imagine the riverbank near the holes. So; was the whole-maker after a hole ... and ignorant of the iron?

      The compass technology probably preceded the holes by 1,000 plus years. It is my understanding of the Vikings they used the stars for navigation, not the compass.

      Are these holes found in Europe? Or, are they unique to America?

      Thanks again,

      Cal

      ==============================

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wmsmithrock1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Cal
      > After I take the archaeoligest to the triangle stone hole in Ohio to assure all material in the hole is properly collected in order to date the potential material at the bottom of the hole I must keep it undercover. If you google (mooring stone holes) you can spend a day looking at peoples speculations. I have visited many and logged their location, depth, size, position on the stone and the stones effect on a compass which is an indicator of the amount of iron orr or magnatite in the base stone. The 20 I looked at in Minn. and N Dakota for the most part have had visitors who contaminacted the area in some cases by putting compound in the hole. I have only documented the ones I have researched, however I am aware of over 200 reported from the east coast, through the St. Larance or Hudson Bay all the way to Daluth Minn. and into the heart land near Minn. South Dakota and North Dakota. I am sure others are attempting to plot many of these holes and some day we will see the path very clear, however if no academic supports the speculated age nothing will come from the research.
      >
      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, C TRAYLOR <trayloroo@> wrote:
      > >
      > > --
      > > That snake probably had a similar shock .... you were biggest
      > > rock-mover he ever saw ...
      > >
      > > We keep talking about these triangular holes; I have never seen one. Could
      > > we start including dimensions of a side, and deep?
      > >
      > > Also, I suggest the archives should have such information with a GPS
      > > ... If not the GPS on this blog, then hopefully GPS is in your private
      > > collection? Even a Google GPS is pretty good, you can do that from your
      > > desk at home.
      > >
      > > Cal
      > >
      > > ====================
      > >
      >
    • william smith
      Cal   I think the person you are talking about is Marion Dahm. After he passed most of his serious field work was picked up by Steve Hilgren. Steves web site
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 17, 2012
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        Cal
          I think the person you are talking about is Marion Dahm. After he passed most of his serious field work was picked up by Steve Hilgren. Steves web site (Ancient American Vikings) has photos of Dahm when they were working together. I think Rick Ozman has the airplane you mentioned.
          As for the magnetic compass, it was first used in China in 300 BC as a trick item. Over the years it wa developed as a navigational aid and this technology went to Arabia. In the 11 century the magnetic compass was used in conjunction with a sun dial to measure magnetic declination at mid day to determine longitude. This combination of sun dial and compass was technology the Arabians only shared with Henry the Navigator in Portugal.
          Christopher Columbus had a magnetic compass when he sailed on each of his 4 journeys. He failed to adjust his compass to componsate for magnetic variance and thus ended up 940 miles south of his destination.
          To my knowledge the Vikings did not use the magnetic compass. They used a seer stone to aid in locating the sun on cloudy days. They used a lunar compass by observing the position of the moon at mid day each day. They built their ships with 30 oar locks (15 on each side) in order to create a window for the moons position each day.
          I suggest you visit Steves site to get the best information on the stone holes.

        --- On Sat, 11/17/12, trayloroo <trayloroo@...> wrote:

        From: trayloroo <trayloroo@...>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Iron smelting in Ohio
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 4:13 PM

         
        Thank you. I am trying to recall one of the pioneers in this area, he built himself a little airplane. He wrote a book on this subject. I have heard him speak, in Salt Lake City it seems. We corresponded some. A prince of a fellow, personable, very generous.

        In his area of finds, he had evidence that suggested the normal river banks then were up ... near the stones. Today, there it is hard to imagine the riverbank near the holes. So; was the whole-maker after a hole ... and ignorant of the iron?

        The compass technology probably preceded the holes by 1,000 plus years. It is my understanding of the Vikings they used the stars for navigation, not the compass.

        Are these holes found in Europe? Or, are they unique to America?

        Thanks again,

        Cal

        ==============================

        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wmsmithrock1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Cal
        > After I take the archaeoligest to the triangle stone hole in Ohio to assure all material in the hole is properly collected in order to date the potential material at the bottom of the hole I must keep it undercover. If you google (mooring stone holes) you can spend a day looking at peoples speculations. I have visited many and logged their location, depth, size, position on the stone and the stones effect on a compass which is an indicator of the amount of iron orr or magnatite in the base stone. The 20 I looked at in Minn. and N Dakota for the most part have had visitors who contaminacted the area in some cases by putting compound in the hole. I have only documented the ones I have researched, however I am aware of over 200 reported from the east coast, through the St. Larance or Hudson Bay all the way to Daluth Minn. and into the heart land near Minn. South Dakota and North Dakota. I am sure others are attempting to plot many of these holes and some day we will see the path very clear, however if no academic supports the speculated age nothing will come from the research.
        >
        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, C TRAYLOR <trayloroo@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --
        > > That snake probably had a similar shock .... you were biggest
        > > rock-mover he ever saw ...
        > >
        > > We keep talking about these triangular holes; I have never seen one. Could
        > > we start including dimensions of a side, and deep?
        > >
        > > Also, I suggest the archives should have such information with a GPS
        > > ... If not the GPS on this blog, then hopefully GPS is in your private
        > > collection? Even a Google GPS is pretty good, you can do that from your
        > > desk at home.
        > >
        > > Cal
        > >
        > > ====================
        > >
        >

      • kbs2244
        There is some evidence of prehistoric (meaning before the white man) iron smelting in Ohio. Since the Indians occupying the area at the time of the white man
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 18, 2012
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          There is some evidence of "prehistoric" (meaning before the white man) iron smelting in Ohio.
          Since the Indians occupying the area at the time of the white man invasion knew nothing about how to make metal from ore it seems somewhat obvious that someone before them did.

          https://sites.google.com/site/americasmysteriousfurnaces/

          http://ironageamerica.blogspot.com/#!

          http://www.daysknob.com/Iron.htm

          http://www.archaeologyfieldwork.com/AFW/Message/Topic/3189/Discussion/update-possible-prehistoric-iron-smelting-in-ohio
        • Bill
          A group of Europeans in about 50 BC seem to have arrived on American shores with metal working knowledge. The evidence that supports this is shakey, however it
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
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            A group of Europeans in about 50 BC seem to have arrived on American shores with metal working knowledge. The evidence that supports this is shakey, however it is best described in the Book of Mormon. Other support for this is the copper points and metal artifacts found at the bottom of the mounds at Ft. Ancient, Ohio. Some of these items are in the Ohio State archives and identified as mushroons by the archaeoligest. (flat circular disk with a bronze rod through its center)
            The oldest dated village where mounds and other items of food storage seems to be located is at Poverty Point La. Their is a lot of data and artifacts that indicate the 98% pure copper in northern Mich. found its way to Europe 3000 years ago.

            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "kbs2244" <kbs2244@...> wrote:
            >
            > There is some evidence of "prehistoric" (meaning before the white man) iron smelting in Ohio.
            > Since the Indians occupying the area at the time of the white man invasion knew nothing about how to make metal from ore it seems somewhat obvious that someone before them did.
            >
            > https://sites.google.com/site/americasmysteriousfurnaces/
            >
            > http://ironageamerica.blogspot.com/#!
            >
            > http://www.daysknob.com/Iron.htm
            >
            > http://www.archaeologyfieldwork.com/AFW/Message/Topic/3189/Discussion/update-possible-prehistoric-iron-smelting-in-ohio
            >
          • William Conner
            William Smith: Yes I also wish you had a camera with you when you found that rock pile.   I have found  small amounts of bog ore at Spruce Hill in
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
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              William Smith:
               
              Yes I also wish you had a camera with you when you found that rock pile.   I have found  small amounts of bog ore at Spruce Hill in southwestern Ross County, Ohio. This is discussed in detail in my book "Iron Age America: Before Columbus."   Buy a copy online, read about Spruce Hill and its evidence of prehistoric furnaces.  Your ridge may well be another example of a site with one or more hilltop furnaces.   I also have an "Iron Age America" bog with some color photos.
               
              William Conner  


              From: Bill <wmsmithrock1@...>
              To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, November 17, 2012 12:01:47 PM
              Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Iron smelting in Ohio

               

              In Adams county Ohio on top of a ridge just north of the Ohio River near Manchester is a small stone rock pile which may at one time been a smelting furnace at one time. I wish I had a camera with me so I could show photos to Mr W Conner. Now that the folage is down and I plan to make a trip soon to do some archaeology work on a triangle stone hole near this area I may get a chance to find this stone pile. It is not next to any ground which would be farmable, however it is on the old bison migration trail (Hopewell Road) which was likely used by all travelers of the Ohio River before roads. If you all have any reccomendations please advise. The reason I remember it so well is because when I first found it (25 years ago) I removed one stone and observed the largest copper head snake I had ever seen.

            • william smith
              William Conner   I have read much of your great work. I was most impressed when you found the casting of the ax. I think you and Wayne May were going to look
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
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                William Conner
                  I have read much of your great work. I was most impressed when you found the casting of the ax. I think you and Wayne May were going to look at a stone structure on my farm in Adams county about 6 years ago. I am sure you have seen the 500 lb. large stone which is called the Ohio Rock. Some say it was a mold for hammer fusing copper inside to fabricate a large sun dial. I have found metal artifacts near the site, however most seem to be late 1800s and related to early farming in this area. One piece looks like the vertical portion of a treasure chest strap. I had a lab in Cinn. look at it and the report indicated it dates to at least 100 years old because of the large size of the carbon molicules. They also stated it may be over 500 years old because most iron over 100 years old has large carbon molicules and it is almost impossable to date iron older than 100 years.
                  The farm is on the very south end of the Hopewell road near the three islands in the Ohio at Manchester. This road goes in a straight line from Manchester to Chillacothie and then on to Newark. A total of 100 miles. Brad Lepper wrote the book about the Hopewell Road. After he wrote his book I sent him an email about how the short leg Bison used to migrate from Kentucky into Ohio. The early indians would contain these bison in the hopewell road with 2 ft. walls on each side. Many spear points the size used in atalads can and have been found on this road. I call it the killing field. Excuse the spelling and hope to see you at one of your talks in the area.
                William

                --- On Mon, 11/19/12, William Conner <conner6343@...> wrote:

                From: William Conner <conner6343@...>
                Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Iron smelting in Ohio
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, November 19, 2012, 3:57 PM

                 
                William Smith:
                 
                Yes I also wish you had a camera with you when you found that rock pile.   I have found  small amounts of bog ore at Spruce Hill in southwestern Ross County, Ohio. This is discussed in detail in my book "Iron Age America: Before Columbus."   Buy a copy online, read about Spruce Hill and its evidence of prehistoric furnaces.  Your ridge may well be another example of a site with one or more hilltop furnaces.   I also have an "Iron Age America" bog with some color photos.
                 
                William Conner  


                From: Bill <wmsmithrock1@...>
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, November 17, 2012 12:01:47 PM
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Iron smelting in Ohio

                 
                In Adams county Ohio on top of a ridge just north of the Ohio River near Manchester is a small stone rock pile which may at one time been a smelting furnace at one time. I wish I had a camera with me so I could show photos to Mr W Conner. Now that the folage is down and I plan to make a trip soon to do some archaeology work on a triangle stone hole near this area I may get a chance to find this stone pile. It is not next to any ground which would be farmable, however it is on the old bison migration trail (Hopewell Road) which was likely used by all travelers of the Ohio River before roads. If you all have any reccomendations please advise. The reason I remember it so well is because when I first found it (25 years ago) I removed one stone and observed the largest copper head snake I had ever seen.

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