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Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"

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  • Mark Bennett
    It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody and he certainly
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 16, 2012
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      It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
      the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody and
      he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
      about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
      long story about being “forced” into eating a corned beef by Jesse Lansky
      and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
      rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30’s,40’s) was
      to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
      (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and have
      the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark

      > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for being an
      > Italian impersonating a Native American.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@...
      > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
      > To: Ancient Waterways Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
      > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
      >
      > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
      > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
      > blogtalkradio.com .
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...>
      > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
      > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
      > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
      >
      > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
      > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
      > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
      > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
      > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
      > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
      > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
      > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
      > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
      > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
      > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
      > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
      > was so dark.
      >
      > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
      > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
      > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
      >
      > be well,
      > jamey
      >
      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
      > quarefremeruntgentes7@... wrote:
      >>
      >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although I
      >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
      >>
      >> Jeff
      >>
      >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have no
      >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
      >>
      >>
      >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
      >>
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...>
      >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
      >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
      >>
      >> Thanks again Ted,
      >>
      >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
      >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
      >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
      >>
      >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
      >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
      >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
      >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
      >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had enough
      >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may take
      >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
      >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo! Groups.
      >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than we
      >> currently realize.
      >>
      >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
      >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris is
      >> costly.
      >>
      >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
      >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
      >>
      >> Read more:
      >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
      >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
      >>
      >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
      >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
      >>
      >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
      >>
      >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply regarding
      >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
      >>
      >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to short
      >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98% more
      >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
      >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime I
      >> forget I'm not.
      >>
      >> be well,
      >> jamey
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@>
      >> wrote:
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
      >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
      >> Hudson
      >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
      >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
      >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and what
      >> > they had to say.
      >> >
      >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom, adorned
      >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
      >> photo
      >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably an
      >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
      >> >
      >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
      >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
      >> >
      >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
      >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most ancient
      >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
      >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake up
      >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
      >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must be
      >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
      >> models
      >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get the
      >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion on
      >> > this site.
      >> >
      >> > ted
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • james m clark jr
      I could be wrong but I don t think Gary was ever in doubt Ted. Jeff seems to be either addressing me or how crazy it can get in a public groups in general
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 16, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        I could be wrong but I don't think Gary was ever in doubt Ted.
        Jeff seems to be either addressing me or how crazy it can get in a public groups in general perhaps. The Google group Jeff brought up was one of the first groups I started in. It's no different in Yahoo! public groups. I'm quit frank in either public or private groups myself it makes no difference. Although the posers are sought out like yellow jackets swarming around pear trees at harvest time they will evenually go away but not before invited to Native 2 Native 2 from Google alt. Native if it's no one but Little Red Hawk I will count it as a blessing but the last I heard he needed a pc... which isn't the case as it was in 2002 03 04. Yahoo! Chat is like google groups it will be there forever and not used much anywhere except perhaps at Native 2 Native 2.

        be well,
        jamey



        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:
        >
        > Gary is anything but a pretend native, but a competent writer and
        > scholar. He gained his ideas from teaching in many places where
        > native wisdom is not dead, and getting to know natives as persons,
        > culture, and religion. He realized that what was being taught in
        > schools was killing their cultures. He quotes an Alaskan Secretary of
        > education who announces that it is his goal to do just that among the
        > North Slope tribes! This book is for the rest of us non natives.
        > While he is not a Farley Mowatt type writer, with great stories and
        > insights, his work is a good wake up call to all of us.
        > On Apr 15, 2012, at 1:07 AM, james m clark jr wrote:
        >
        > > Thanks again Ted,
        > >
        > > Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
        > > review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
        > > and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
        > >
        > > Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
        > > would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
        > > April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
        > > members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
        > > isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had
        > > enough criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
        > > may take some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully
        > > Susan Stan & Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options
        > > at Yahoo! Groups. This will enhances group particapation greatly I
        > > think sooner than we currently realize.
        > >
        > > Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
        > > effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris
        > > is costly.
        > >
        > > Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
        > > relace pricey perfume ingredient
        > >
        > > Read more:
        > > http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo
        > > \
        > > und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-
        > > article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
        > >
        > > Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
        > > Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
        > >
        > > http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
        > >
        > > posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
        > > regarding the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
        > > prefer it
        > >
        > > Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to
        > > short stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
        > > 98% more active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I
        > > am not a ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
        > > Sometime I forget I'm not.
        > >
        > > be well,
        > > jamey
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
        > > <tedsojka@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
        > > > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
        > > Hudson
        > > > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
        > > > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
        > > > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and what
        > > > they had to say.
        > > >
        > > > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom, adorned
        > > > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
        > > photo
        > > > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably
        > > an
        > > > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
        > > >
        > > > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
        > > > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
        > > >
        > > > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
        > > > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most ancient
        > > > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
        > > > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake
        > > up
        > > > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
        > > > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must
        > > be
        > > > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
        > > models
        > > > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get the
        > > > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion on
        > > > this site.
        > > >
        > > > ted
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • james m clark jr
        ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty. COME AND GET IT!! Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia Georgia
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 16, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
          COME AND GET IT!!

          Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak Tree if I recall the archives correctly.

          be well,
          jamey

          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett" <mlbennett@...> wrote:
          >
          > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
          > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody and
          > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
          > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
          > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by Jesse Lansky
          > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
          > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30's,40's) was
          > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
          > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and have
          > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark
          >
          > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for being an
          > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
          > >
          > > Jeff
          > >
          > >
          > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@...
          > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
          > > To: Ancient Waterways Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
          > >
          > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
          > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
          > > blogtalkradio.com .
          > >
          > > Jeff
          > >
          > >
          > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...>
          > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
          > > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
          > >
          > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
          > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
          > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
          > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
          > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
          > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
          > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
          > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
          > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
          > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
          > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
          > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
          > > was so dark.
          > >
          > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
          > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
          > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
          > >
          > > be well,
          > > jamey
          > >
          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
          > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
          > >>
          > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although I
          > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
          > >>
          > >> Jeff
          > >>
          > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have no
          > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          > >>
          > >> -----Original Message-----
          > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
          > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
          > >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
          > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
          > >>
          > >> Thanks again Ted,
          > >>
          > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
          > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
          > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
          > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
          > >>
          > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
          > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
          > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
          > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
          > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had enough
          > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may take
          > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
          > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo! Groups.
          > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than we
          > >> currently realize.
          > >>
          > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
          > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris is
          > >> costly.
          > >>
          > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
          > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
          > >>
          > >> Read more:
          > >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
          > >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
          > >>
          > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
          > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
          > >>
          > >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
          > >>
          > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply regarding
          > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
          > >>
          > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to short
          > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98% more
          > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
          > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime I
          > >> forget I'm not.
          > >>
          > >> be well,
          > >> jamey
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@>
          > >> wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
          > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
          > >> Hudson
          > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
          > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
          > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and what
          > >> > they had to say.
          > >> >
          > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom, adorned
          > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
          > >> photo
          > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably an
          > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
          > >> >
          > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
          > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
          > >> >
          > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
          > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most ancient
          > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
          > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake up
          > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
          > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must be
          > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
          > >> models
          > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get the
          > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion on
          > >> > this site.
          > >> >
          > >> > ted
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> ------------------------------------
          > >>
          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Mark Bennett
          It was a corned beef sandwich and probably from one of the best deli s in LA. Mark
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 16, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            It was a corned beef sandwich and probably from one of the best deli's in
            LA. Mark



            > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
            > COME AND GET IT!!
            >
            > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia
            > Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard was
            > alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water mill
            > or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak Tree if I
            > recall the archives correctly.
            >
            > be well,
            > jamey
            >
            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
            > <mlbennett@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
            >> the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody
            >> and
            >> he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
            >> about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
            >> long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by Jesse
            >> Lansky
            >> and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
            >> rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30's,40's)
            >> was
            >> to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
            >> (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and
            >> have
            >> the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark
            >>
            >> > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for
            >> being an
            >> > Italian impersonating a Native American.
            >> >
            >> > Jeff
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
            >> >
            >> > -----Original Message-----
            >> > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@...
            >> > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
            >> > To: Ancient Waterways
            >> Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
            >> > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
            >> >
            >> > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
            >> > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
            >> > blogtalkradio.com .
            >> >
            >> > Jeff
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
            >> >
            >> > -----Original Message-----
            >> > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...>
            >> > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
            >> > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
            >> > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
            >> >
            >> > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
            >> > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
            >> > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
            >> > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
            >> > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
            >> > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
            >> > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
            >> > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
            >> > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
            >> > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
            >> > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
            >> > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
            >> > was so dark.
            >> >
            >> > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
            >> > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
            >> > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
            >> >
            >> > be well,
            >> > jamey
            >> >
            >> > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
            >> > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although
            >> I
            >> >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
            >> >>
            >> >> Jeff
            >> >>
            >> >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have
            >> no
            >> >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
            >> >>
            >> >> -----Original Message-----
            >> >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
            >> >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
            >> >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
            >> >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            >> >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
            >> >>
            >> >> Thanks again Ted,
            >> >>
            >> >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
            >> >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
            >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
            >> >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
            >> >>
            >> >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
            >> >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
            >> >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
            >> >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
            >> >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had
            >> enough
            >> >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may
            >> take
            >> >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
            >> >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo!
            >> Groups.
            >> >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than
            >> we
            >> >> currently realize.
            >> >>
            >> >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
            >> >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris
            >> is
            >> >> costly.
            >> >>
            >> >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
            >> >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
            >> >>
            >> >> Read more:
            >> >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
            >> >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
            >> >>
            >> >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
            >> >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
            >> >>
            >> >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
            >> >>
            >> >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
            >> regarding
            >> >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
            >> >>
            >> >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to
            >> short
            >> >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98%
            >> more
            >> >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
            >> >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime
            >> I
            >> >> forget I'm not.
            >> >>
            >> >> be well,
            >> >> jamey
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
            >> <tedsojka@>
            >> >> wrote:
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
            >> >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
            >> >> Hudson
            >> >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
            >> >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
            >> >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and
            >> what
            >> >> > they had to say.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
            >> adorned
            >> >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
            >> >> photo
            >> >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably
            >> an
            >> >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
            >> >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
            >> >> >
            >> >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
            >> >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
            >> ancient
            >> >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
            >> >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake
            >> up
            >> >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
            >> >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must
            >> be
            >> >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
            >> >> models
            >> >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get
            >> the
            >> >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion
            >> on
            >> >> > this site.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > ted
            >> >> >
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> ------------------------------------
            >> >>
            >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >> >
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >> >
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
          • james m clark jr
            aarrr!! BurnHEART/Bernard Sorry about Mark, AWS, ... and you to Leola Dolee L.A. has walmart subs in their deli s now? ...mmm mmm Vegan corn beef sub please!!
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 17, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              aarrr!! BurnHEART/Bernard
              Sorry about Mark, AWS,
              ... and you to Leola Dolee



              L.A. has walmart subs in their deli's now?
              ...mmm mmm Vegan corn beef sub please!!
              Hold the Tofu! Speaking of Tofu has anybody
              beside me tried to flame broil a Hebrew National
              hotdog... Reminded me of abraham & Daniel escaping
              the firey furnace.

              Examples of YahooGroup! Apps avalible for Yahoo Groups throughout post. What this would means for AWS members. Once moderators enable an application this would enable members to become a grouplet. Become a grouplet to whatever degree you want. These grouplet applcations as far as I know are applied only to Yahoo Groups! Online site or link

              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/grouplets/subscriptions

              And perhaps depending on applied apps is more like academic setting
              As you can see if you visit link or the AWS Homepage -- above Chat there it is right above it in Group Labs (Beta)-- Applications -- There are no apps currently at AWS. They have to be activated by group moderator In fact in 45 public & private groups 1 group only one had used only one app and had deleted that one and enabled it again the very next day. Other than that 15 years of yahoo groups have been cought in the digital dustben like staring lab rats. And the tools to make them stable was just a click away, unapplied unseen hidden and hanging on by a thread.

              Applications have been here for years at YahooGroups! Way before cell phone craze and multimedia apps

              could we use a:

              How To (Instructions) Enable group members to share "how
              to" guides

              This is an app. I didn't need to create a folder last year.
              In fact regarding secure issues & attachments there is an additional app for photos a total of 3 links to add photo at AWS. If applied to AWS this could be used for family, events, lectures, tours, sites,
              and yes there are 2 app for Maps a people map and location map and even a RSVP App for events or a created event that tracks how many folks are planning on atending an event. And all these tools and more could be at every AWS members disposal.

              The more you share as a grouplet the better the group can function is an idea to many have ignored. This would make group moderatation a whole lot easier and promote group responiblity and task managagement. Although AWS is a public group grouplet information is not disclosed to the general public.

              Reviews
              Enable your group to share reviews of restaurants, local businesses and services, electronics, movies, music, and more. Or create your own AWS review application.


              AWS has elected to be a Public Outlet to Ancient Waterways Society composed of AWS Members collectively as a body of International colleges from a verity of backgrounds and first nation peoples for the general public.

              People Map
              The People Map provides an easy way for group members to
              share where they're from and can also be used to create a dynamic
              address book for the group or to create group specific profiles.

              Places Map
              A great way for group members to share information about
              places that are relevant to the group. You can customize the map to make it about a specific type of place (e.g. restaurants or dog parks or tourist attractions) or leave it open to anything.


              Hold the Swiss...oh!!
              Hold the PASTRAMI Ohh No!! BLOOD SAUSAGE sandwish please.. No!!!
              Don't get me wrong I would love to try some really good corn beef.
              Irish family lives in FLa. Jewish family are proud to be... from the Father Land? Humm Stockholm Syndrome posers Some want in... some want out.

              Anywho... I have a good idea of where to look on the East Coast.
              West Coast: Los Angeles 34.0522° N, 118.2428° W
              East Coast: Conyers Ga 33.6675° N, 84.0178° W

              Conyers is about 25m just outside of Atlanta

              ...as a side order I'll take the Red no.40 Jello
              with cherry peppers & turkey bacon and a small bowl
              of your best broccoli soup! It's a Kosher thing...
              What's that... is the pink slime okay by me?
              Your the pre-cooked sandwich maker... suprise me.
              Yes! Freshly graded cheddar please. I expect the
              best in L.A. sub shops.

              Dude this a Fallout 3 New Vasas mod in L.A RPG's!!
              It's hard to imagine good corn beef at a sub slop
              at the chowhound chow all-day-long but if you insist
              that it is so good Jews & Muslims can eat here in peace
              ...okay perhaps not all that.

              I'd rather take my chances in the Resturant
              captial of the South in Conyers Georgia with once an
              excellent Ladino sub shop ... I wished!! It was a
              pressed tuna on toasted whole wheat sub is a Kosher fav.
              altough my first was made at the Frontera Mex-Mex Grill.
              Make them myself now. There is a local favorite Mexican
              eatery in Macon: Tacos La Playita noted for excellent casadia's wonderful serloin steak burritos and the best ever guacamole.

              If the Counry Kitchen buffet is still an all you can eat buffet
              for 8 to 10 bucks this place is unbelievable. Perhsps
              a non Kosher affiliation but when good health ratings
              are high and large sellection of fine fresh baked goods, dishes
              casseroles. Main course including Blackened Baked Alaskian Cod
              perhaps the best on ice on the entire East Coast. If
              it's not in Conyers it's not a Country Kitchen. An excelent
              stop for passerbys clubs, schools to bussiness lunchin.

              Biker Clubs & perhaps Societies can make request to the american spirit tv show to request touring suggestion segments you would like see. Warm Spings Georgia was the latest episode here in the southeast est

              American Spirit TV:
              LinkedIN
              Facebook
              Youtube

              be well,
              jamey

              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett" <mlbennett@...> wrote:
              >
              > It was a corned beef sandwich and probably from one of the best deli's in
              > LA. Mark
              >
              >
              >
              > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
              > > COME AND GET IT!!
              > >
              > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia
              > > Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard was
              > > alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water mill
              > > or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak Tree if I
              > > recall the archives correctly.
              > >
              > > be well,
              > > jamey
              > >
              > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
              > > <mlbennett@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
              > >> the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody
              > >> and
              > >> he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
              > >> about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
              > >> long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by Jesse
              > >> Lansky
              > >> and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
              > >> rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30's,40's)
              > >> was
              > >> to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
              > >> (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and
              > >> have
              > >> the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark
              > >>
              > >> > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for
              > >> being an
              > >> > Italian impersonating a Native American.
              > >> >
              > >> > Jeff
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
              > >> >
              > >> > -----Original Message-----
              > >> > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
              > >> > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
              > >> > To: Ancient Waterways
              > >> Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
              > >> > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
              > >> >
              > >> > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
              > >> > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
              > >> > blogtalkradio.com .
              > >> >
              > >> > Jeff
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
              > >> >
              > >> > -----Original Message-----
              > >> > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
              > >> > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
              > >> > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
              > >> > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
              > >> >
              > >> > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
              > >> > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
              > >> > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
              > >> > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
              > >> > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
              > >> > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
              > >> > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
              > >> > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
              > >> > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
              > >> > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
              > >> > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
              > >> > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
              > >> > was so dark.
              > >> >
              > >> > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
              > >> > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
              > >> > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
              > >> >
              > >> > be well,
              > >> > jamey
              > >> >
              > >> > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
              > >> > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
              > >> >>
              > >> >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although
              > >> I
              > >> >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Jeff
              > >> >>
              > >> >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have
              > >> no
              > >> >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
              > >> >>
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
              > >> >>
              > >> >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
              > >> >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
              > >> >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
              > >> >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > >> >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Thanks again Ted,
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
              > >> >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
              > >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
              > >> >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
              > >> >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
              > >> >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
              > >> >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
              > >> >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had
              > >> enough
              > >> >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may
              > >> take
              > >> >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
              > >> >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo!
              > >> Groups.
              > >> >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than
              > >> we
              > >> >> currently realize.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
              > >> >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris
              > >> is
              > >> >> costly.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
              > >> >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Read more:
              > >> >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
              > >> >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
              > >> >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
              > >> >>
              > >> >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
              > >> regarding
              > >> >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to
              > >> short
              > >> >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98%
              > >> more
              > >> >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
              > >> >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime
              > >> I
              > >> >> forget I'm not.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> be well,
              > >> >> jamey
              > >> >>
              > >> >>
              > >> >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
              > >> <tedsojka@>
              > >> >> wrote:
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
              > >> >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
              > >> >> Hudson
              > >> >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
              > >> >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
              > >> >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and
              > >> what
              > >> >> > they had to say.
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
              > >> adorned
              > >> >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
              > >> >> photo
              > >> >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably
              > >> an
              > >> >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
              > >> >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
              > >> >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
              > >> ancient
              > >> >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
              > >> >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake
              > >> up
              > >> >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
              > >> >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must
              > >> be
              > >> >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
              > >> >> models
              > >> >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get
              > >> the
              > >> >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion
              > >> on
              > >> >> > this site.
              > >> >> >
              > >> >> > ted
              > >> >> >
              > >> >>
              > >> >>
              > >> >>
              > >> >>
              > >> >> ------------------------------------
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >> >>
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > ------------------------------------
              > >> >
              > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > ------------------------------------
              > >> >
              > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • charles bruns
              send me all you want.  alot depends on if you are hungry.  chb From: james m clark jr To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com Sent:
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 17, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                send me all you want.  alot depends on if you are hungry.  chb

                From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"

                 
                ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                COME AND GET IT!!

                Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak Tree if I recall the archives correctly.

                be well,
                jamey

                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett" <mlbennett@...> wrote:
                >
                > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
                > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody and
                > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
                > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
                > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by Jesse Lansky
                > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
                > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30's,40's) was
                > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
                > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and have
                > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark
                >
                > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for being an
                > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                > >
                > > Jeff
                > >
                > >
                > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@...
                > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                > > To: Ancient Waterways Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                > >
                > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
                > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                > > blogtalkradio.com .
                > >
                > > Jeff
                > >
                > >
                > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...>
                > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                > > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                > >
                > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                > > was so dark.
                > >
                > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
                > >
                > > be well,
                > > jamey
                > >
                > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                > >>
                > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although I
                > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                > >>
                > >> Jeff
                > >>
                > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have no
                > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                > >>
                > >> -----Original Message-----
                > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                > >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                > >>
                > >> Thanks again Ted,
                > >>
                > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
                > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                > >>
                > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
                > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
                > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
                > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
                > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had enough
                > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may take
                > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
                > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo! Groups.
                > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than we
                > >> currently realize.
                > >>
                > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
                > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris is
                > >> costly.
                > >>
                > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
                > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                > >>
                > >> Read more:
                > >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
                > >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
                > >>
                > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
                > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                > >>
                > >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                > >>
                > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply regarding
                > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
                > >>
                > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to short
                > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98% more
                > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
                > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime I
                > >> forget I'm not.
                > >>
                > >> be well,
                > >> jamey
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@>
                > >> wrote:
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
                > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
                > >> Hudson
                > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
                > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
                > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and what
                > >> > they had to say.
                > >> >
                > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom, adorned
                > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
                > >> photo
                > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably an
                > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                > >> >
                > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                > >> >
                > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
                > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most ancient
                > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
                > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake up
                > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
                > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must be
                > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
                > >> models
                > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get the
                > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion on
                > >> > this site.
                > >> >
                > >> > ted
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> ------------------------------------
                > >>
                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >



              • james m clark jr
                I hear ya Charlie, AWS could have it s own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way. We could call
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 17, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I hear ya Charlie,

                  AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.

                  We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund


                  For Sale
                  Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.

                  I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County Georgia.
                  They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members

                  min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.

                  Give Away
                  Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members, this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.

                  be well,
                  jamey


                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > send me all you want.  alot depends on if you are hungry.  chb
                  >
                  >
                  > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                  > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                  > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                  > COME AND GET IT!!
                  >
                  > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                  >
                  > be well,
                  > jamey
                  >
                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett" <mlbennett@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double check on
                  > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes Cody and
                  > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost immediately,
                  > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me to a
                  > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by Jesse Lansky
                  > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I keep
                  > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula (30's,40's) was
                  > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the Mexicans
                  > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes) and have
                  > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed. Mark
                  > >
                  > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued for being an
                  > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jeff
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                  > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                  > > > To: Ancient Waterways Society<ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about "internet
                  > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                  > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                  > > >
                  > > > Jeff
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                  > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                  > > > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                  > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                  > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                  > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                  > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                  > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                  > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                  > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                  > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                  > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                  > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                  > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                  > > > was so dark.
                  > > >
                  > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                  > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                  > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the word.
                  > > >
                  > > > be well,
                  > > > jamey
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned, although I
                  > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Jeff
                  > > >>
                  > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I have no
                  > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                  > > >>
                  > > >> -----Original Message-----
                  > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                  > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                  > > >> To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers abstrat
                  > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                  > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                  > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought this
                  > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of Slumber Event
                  > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only produced 2
                  > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov. Scott. Joe
                  > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has had enough
                  > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it may take
                  > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan Stan &
                  > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at Yahoo! Groups.
                  > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner than we
                  > > >> currently realize.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide wont be
                  > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although ambergris is
                  > > >> costly.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery could
                  > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Read more:
                  > > >> http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-vomit-fo\
                  > > >> und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc9KNuJD
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at Ancient
                  > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                  > > >>
                  > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply regarding
                  > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't prefer it
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due to short
                  > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly 98% more
                  > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am not a
                  > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be. Sometime I
                  > > >> forget I'm not.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> be well,
                  > > >> jamey
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@>
                  > > >> wrote:
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by Gary
                  > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky, ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska, Montana,
                  > > >> Hudson
                  > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my town for
                  > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people here in
                  > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met and what
                  > > >> > they had to say.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom, adorned
                  > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a fine old
                  > > >> photo
                  > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them, probably an
                  > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                  > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul, and that
                  > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most ancient
                  > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As the
                  > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be a wake up
                  > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed word
                  > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says it must be
                  > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work, using
                  > > >> models
                  > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you get the
                  > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for discussion on
                  > > >> > this site.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > ted
                  > > >> >
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> ------------------------------------
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Rick O
                  Marbles were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher. Most of the clay and
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                    this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.

                    Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                    30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                    spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                    crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                    cranium.

                    These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                    found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                    Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                    the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?

                    Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                    Scott Wolter.



                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                    <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                    >
                    > jmcjr
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                    jameyboy@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I hear ya Charlie,
                    > >
                    > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                    despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                    > >
                    > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > For Sale
                    > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                    can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                    of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                    > >
                    > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                    Georgia.
                    > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                    early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                    may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                    AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                    > >
                    > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                    > >
                    > > Give Away
                    > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                    to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                    entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                    this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                    > >
                    > > be well,
                    > > jamey
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                    <charbruns@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                    > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                    > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                    > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                    > > >
                    > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                    Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                    was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                    mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                    Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                    > > >
                    > > > be well,
                    > > > jamey
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                    <mlbennett@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                    check on
                    > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                    Cody and
                    > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                    immediately,
                    > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                    to a
                    > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                    Jesse Lansky
                    > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                    keep
                    > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                    (30's,40's) was
                    > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                    Mexicans
                    > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                    and have
                    > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                    Mark
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                    for being an
                    > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Jeff
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                    > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                    > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                    Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                    Wisdom"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                    "internet
                    > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                    > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Jeff
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                    > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                    > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                    Wisdom"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                    > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                    > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                    > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                    > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                    > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                    > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                    > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                    > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                    > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                    > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                    > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                    > > > > > was so dark.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                    > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                    > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                    word.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > be well,
                    > > > > > jamey
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                    although I
                    > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Jeff
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                    have no
                    > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                    > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                    > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                    Wisdom"
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                    abstrat
                    > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                    > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                    > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                    this
                    > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                    Slumber Event
                    > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                    produced 2
                    > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                    Scott. Joe
                    > > > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has
                    had enough
                    > > > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
                    may take
                    > > > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan
                    Stan &
                    > > > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at
                    Yahoo! Groups.
                    > > > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner
                    than we
                    > > > > >> currently realize.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide
                    wont be
                    > > > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although
                    ambergris is
                    > > > > >> costly.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery
                    could
                    > > > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Read more:
                    > > > > >>
                    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-\
                    vomit-fo\
                    > > > > >>
                    und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc\
                    9KNuJD
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at
                    Ancient
                    > > > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
                    regarding
                    > > > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
                    prefer it
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due
                    to short
                    > > > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
                    98% more
                    > > > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am
                    not a
                    > > > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
                    Sometime I
                    > > > > >> forget I'm not.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> be well,
                    > > > > >> jamey
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
                    <tedsojka@>
                    > > > > >> wrote:
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by
                    Gary
                    > > > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky,
                    ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska,
                    Montana,
                    > > > > >> Hudson
                    > > > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my
                    town for
                    > > > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people
                    here in
                    > > > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met
                    and what
                    > > > > >> > they had to say.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
                    adorned
                    > > > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a
                    fine old
                    > > > > >> photo
                    > > > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them,
                    probably an
                    > > > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                    > > > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul,
                    and that
                    > > > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
                    ancient
                    > > > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As
                    the
                    > > > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be
                    a wake up
                    > > > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed
                    word
                    > > > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says
                    it must be
                    > > > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work,
                    using
                    > > > > >> models
                    > > > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you
                    get the
                    > > > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for
                    discussion on
                    > > > > >> > this site.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > ted
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> ------------------------------------
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Deb Twigg
                    Actually, SRAC (waverly, ny) has tons of these in all sizes and shapes... Very few are a marble size...many are closer to a tennis ball size, some even
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Actually, SRAC (waverly, ny) has tons of these in all sizes and shapes... Very few are a marble size...many are closer to a tennis ball size, some even softball sized. We also have the discoidals and the other flattened "game pieces", as well as bolo stones...which clearly were flung as a weapon or hunting stone after being tied onto a leather strap... My point is that the round balls range into sizes that doubtfully were easy to be used with a slingshot .. And a perfectly round stone takes a long time to make to be used when another unworked pebble many times would do...For that reason I would think that rolling was the obvious reason for the worked sphere shape as well as the discoidals  (which are also always made of hard stone too and usually banged up)- for whatever purpose, gaming or anything else a round shape can be used for...

                      Just another opinion!

                      Deb Twigg
                      Executive Director
                      SRAC
                      607-727-3111

                      On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:15 AM, "Rick O" <ozman@...> wrote:

                       

                      "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                      this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.

                      Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                      30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                      spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                      crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                      cranium.

                      These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                      found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                      Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                      the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?

                      Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                      Scott Wolter.

                      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                      <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                      >
                      > jmcjr
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                      jameyboy@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I hear ya Charlie,
                      > >
                      > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                      despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                      > >
                      > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > For Sale
                      > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                      can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                      of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                      > >
                      > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                      Georgia.
                      > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                      early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                      may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                      AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                      > >
                      > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                      > >
                      > > Give Away
                      > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                      to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                      entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                      this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                      > >
                      > > be well,
                      > > jamey
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                      <charbruns@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                      > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                      > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                      > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                      > > >
                      > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                      Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                      was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                      mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                      Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                      > > >
                      > > > be well,
                      > > > jamey
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                      <mlbennett@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                      check on
                      > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                      Cody and
                      > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                      immediately,
                      > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                      to a
                      > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                      Jesse Lansky
                      > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                      keep
                      > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                      (30's,40's) was
                      > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                      Mexicans
                      > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                      and have
                      > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                      Mark
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                      for being an
                      > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Jeff
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                      > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                      > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                      Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                      Wisdom"
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                      "internet
                      > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                      > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Jeff
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                      > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                      > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                      Wisdom"
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                      > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                      > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                      > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                      > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                      > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                      > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                      > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                      > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                      > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                      > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                      > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                      > > > > > was so dark.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                      > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                      > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                      word.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > be well,
                      > > > > > jamey
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                      although I
                      > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Jeff
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                      have no
                      > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                      > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                      > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                      Wisdom"
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                      abstrat
                      > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                      > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                      > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                      this
                      > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                      Slumber Event
                      > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                      produced 2
                      > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                      Scott. Joe
                      > > > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has
                      had enough
                      > > > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
                      may take
                      > > > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan
                      Stan &
                      > > > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at
                      Yahoo! Groups.
                      > > > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner
                      than we
                      > > > > >> currently realize.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide
                      wont be
                      > > > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although
                      ambergris is
                      > > > > >> costly.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery
                      could
                      > > > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Read more:
                      > > > > >>
                      http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-\
                      vomit-fo\
                      > > > > >>
                      und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc\
                      9KNuJD
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at
                      Ancient
                      > > > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
                      regarding
                      > > > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
                      prefer it
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due
                      to short
                      > > > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
                      98% more
                      > > > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am
                      not a
                      > > > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
                      Sometime I
                      > > > > >> forget I'm not.
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> be well,
                      > > > > >> jamey
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
                      <tedsojka@>
                      > > > > >> wrote:
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by
                      Gary
                      > > > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky,
                      ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska,
                      Montana,
                      > > > > >> Hudson
                      > > > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my
                      town for
                      > > > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people
                      here in
                      > > > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met
                      and what
                      > > > > >> > they had to say.
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
                      adorned
                      > > > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a
                      fine old
                      > > > > >> photo
                      > > > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them,
                      probably an
                      > > > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                      > > > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul,
                      and that
                      > > > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
                      ancient
                      > > > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As
                      the
                      > > > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be
                      a wake up
                      > > > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed
                      word
                      > > > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says
                      it must be
                      > > > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work,
                      using
                      > > > > >> models
                      > > > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you
                      get the
                      > > > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for
                      discussion on
                      > > > > >> > this site.
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >> > ted
                      > > > > >> >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> ------------------------------------
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >

                      =
                    • Larry Hancock
                      I once read how real marbles were made anciently by placing a small rounded stone in a hole or depressioin in the rock and letting running water fall on it and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I once read how real marbles were made anciently by placing a small rounded stone in a hole or depressioin in the rock and letting running water fall on it and turn it until it was perfectly rounded.

                        --- On Thu, 4/19/12, Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...> wrote:

                        From: Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...>
                        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                        To: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 9:35 AM

                         

                        Actually, SRAC (waverly, ny) has tons of these in all sizes and shapes... Very few are a marble size...many are closer to a tennis ball size, some even softball sized. We also have the discoidals and the other flattened "game pieces", as well as bolo stones...which clearly were flung as a weapon or hunting stone after being tied onto a leather strap... My point is that the round balls range into sizes that doubtfully were easy to be used with a slingshot .. And a perfectly round stone takes a long time to make to be used when another unworked pebble many times would do...For that reason I would think that rolling was the obvious reason for the worked sphere shape as well as the discoidals  (which are also always made of hard stone too and usually banged up)- for whatever purpose, gaming or anything else a round shape can be used for...

                        Just another opinion!

                        Deb Twigg
                        Executive Director
                        SRAC
                        607-727-3111

                        On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:15 AM, "Rick O" <ozman@...> wrote:

                         

                        "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                        this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.

                        Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                        30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                        spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                        crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                        cranium.

                        These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                        found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                        Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                        the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?

                        Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                        Scott Wolter.

                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                        <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                        >
                        > jmcjr
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                        jameyboy@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I hear ya Charlie,
                        > >
                        > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                        despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                        > >
                        > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > For Sale
                        > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                        can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                        of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                        > >
                        > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                        Georgia.
                        > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                        early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                        may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                        AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                        > >
                        > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                        > >
                        > > Give Away
                        > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                        to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                        entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                        this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                        > >
                        > > be well,
                        > > jamey
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                        <charbruns@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                        > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                        > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                        > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                        > > >
                        > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                        Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                        was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                        mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                        Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                        > > >
                        > > > be well,
                        > > > jamey
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                        <mlbennett@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                        check on
                        > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                        Cody and
                        > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                        immediately,
                        > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                        to a
                        > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                        Jesse Lansky
                        > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                        keep
                        > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                        (30's,40's) was
                        > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                        Mexicans
                        > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                        and have
                        > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                        Mark
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                        for being an
                        > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Jeff
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                        > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                        > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                        Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                        Wisdom"
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                        "internet
                        > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                        > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Jeff
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                        > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                        > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                        Wisdom"
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                        > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                        > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                        > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                        > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                        > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                        > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                        > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                        > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                        > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                        > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                        > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                        > > > > > was so dark.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                        > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                        > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                        word.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > be well,
                        > > > > > jamey
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                        although I
                        > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Jeff
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                        have no
                        > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                        > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                        > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                        Wisdom"
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                        abstrat
                        > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                        > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                        > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                        this
                        > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                        Slumber Event
                        > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                        produced 2
                        > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                        Scott. Joe
                        > > > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has
                        had enough
                        > > > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
                        may take
                        > > > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan
                        Stan &
                        > > > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at
                        Yahoo! Groups.
                        > > > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner
                        than we
                        > > > > >> currently realize.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide
                        wont be
                        > > > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although
                        ambergris is
                        > > > > >> costly.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery
                        could
                        > > > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Read more:
                        > > > > >>
                        http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-\
                        vomit-fo\
                        > > > > >>
                        und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc\
                        9KNuJD
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at
                        Ancient
                        > > > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
                        regarding
                        > > > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
                        prefer it
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due
                        to short
                        > > > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
                        98% more
                        > > > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am
                        not a
                        > > > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
                        Sometime I
                        > > > > >> forget I'm not.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> be well,
                        > > > > >> jamey
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
                        <tedsojka@>
                        > > > > >> wrote:
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by
                        Gary
                        > > > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky,
                        ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska,
                        Montana,
                        > > > > >> Hudson
                        > > > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my
                        town for
                        > > > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people
                        here in
                        > > > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met
                        and what
                        > > > > >> > they had to say.
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
                        adorned
                        > > > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a
                        fine old
                        > > > > >> photo
                        > > > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them,
                        probably an
                        > > > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                        > > > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul,
                        and that
                        > > > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
                        ancient
                        > > > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As
                        the
                        > > > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be
                        a wake up
                        > > > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed
                        word
                        > > > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says
                        it must be
                        > > > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work,
                        using
                        > > > > >> models
                        > > > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you
                        get the
                        > > > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for
                        discussion on
                        > > > > >> > this site.
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >> > ted
                        > > > > >> >
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> ------------------------------------
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >

                        =
                      • Deb Twigg
                        Neat! Deb Twigg Executive Director SRAC 607-727-3111 www.SRACenter.org
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Neat!

                          Deb Twigg
                          Executive Director
                          SRAC
                          607-727-3111

                          On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Larry Hancock <hancocklarry40@...> wrote:

                           

                          I once read how real marbles were made anciently by placing a small rounded stone in a hole or depressioin in the rock and letting running water fall on it and turn it until it was perfectly rounded.

                          --- On Thu, 4/19/12, Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...> wrote:

                          From: Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...>
                          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                          To: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 9:35 AM

                           

                          Actually, SRAC (waverly, ny) has tons of these in all sizes and shapes... Very few are a marble size...many are closer to a tennis ball size, some even softball sized. We also have the discoidals and the other flattened "game pieces", as well as bolo stones...which clearly were flung as a weapon or hunting stone after being tied onto a leather strap... My point is that the round balls range into sizes that doubtfully were easy to be used with a slingshot .. And a perfectly round stone takes a long time to make to be used when another unworked pebble many times would do...For that reason I would think that rolling was the obvious reason for the worked sphere shape as well as the discoidals  (which are also always made of hard stone too and usually banged up)- for whatever purpose, gaming or anything else a round shape can be used for...

                          Just another opinion!

                          Deb Twigg
                          Executive Director
                          SRAC
                          607-727-3111

                          On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:15 AM, "Rick O" <ozman@...> wrote:

                           

                          "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                          this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.

                          Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                          30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                          spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                          crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                          cranium.

                          These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                          found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                          Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                          the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?

                          Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                          Scott Wolter.

                          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                          <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                          >
                          > jmcjr
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                          jameyboy@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I hear ya Charlie,
                          > >
                          > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                          despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                          > >
                          > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > For Sale
                          > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                          can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                          of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                          > >
                          > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                          Georgia.
                          > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                          early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                          may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                          AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                          > >
                          > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                          > >
                          > > Give Away
                          > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                          to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                          entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                          this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                          > >
                          > > be well,
                          > > jamey
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                          <charbruns@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                          > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                          > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                          > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                          > > >
                          > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                          Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                          was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                          mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                          Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                          > > >
                          > > > be well,
                          > > > jamey
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                          <mlbennett@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                          check on
                          > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                          Cody and
                          > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                          immediately,
                          > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                          to a
                          > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                          Jesse Lansky
                          > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                          keep
                          > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                          (30's,40's) was
                          > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                          Mexicans
                          > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                          and have
                          > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                          Mark
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                          for being an
                          > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Jeff
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                          > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                          > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                          Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                          Wisdom"
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                          "internet
                          > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                          > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Jeff
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                          > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                          > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                          Wisdom"
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                          > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                          > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                          > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                          > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                          > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                          > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                          > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                          > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                          > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                          > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                          > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                          > > > > > was so dark.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                          > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                          > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                          word.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > be well,
                          > > > > > jamey
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                          although I
                          > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> Jeff
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                          have no
                          > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                          > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                          > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                          Wisdom"
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                          abstrat
                          > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                          > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                          > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                          > > > > >>
                          > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                          this
                          > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                          Slumber Event
                          > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                          produced 2
                          > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                          Scott. Joe
                          > > > > >>

                        • james m clark jr
                          If Im not mistaken Larry mon, it seems it may have been our Sting Stone Stan (Min.Stan) who may have brought this up last year regarding these marbles that
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
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                            If Im not mistaken Larry mon, it seems it may have been our Sting Stone Stan (Min.Stan) who may have brought this up last year regarding these marbles that somewhat favor turtle eggs but smaller or around the subject of Klerksdorp spheres also.

                            be well,
                            jamey mon

                            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hancock <hancocklarry40@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I once read how real marbles were made anciently by placing a small rounded stone in a hole or depressioin in the rock and letting running water fall on it and turn it until it was perfectly rounded.
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 4/19/12, Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                            > To: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Cc: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 9:35 AM
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >  
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Actually, SRAC (waverly, ny) has tons of these in all sizes and shapes... Very few are a marble size...many are closer to a tennis ball size, some even softball sized. We also have the discoidals and the other flattened "game pieces", as well as bolo stones...which clearly were flung as a weapon or hunting stone after being tied onto a leather strap... My point is that the round balls range into sizes that doubtfully were easy to be used with a slingshot .. And a perfectly round stone takes a long time to make to be used when another unworked pebble many times would do...For that reason I would think that rolling was the obvious reason for the worked sphere shape as well as the discoidals  (which are also always made of hard stone too and usually banged up)- for whatever purpose, gaming or anything else a round shape can be used for...
                            > Just another opinion!
                            >
                            > Deb TwiggExecutive DirectorSRAC607-727-3111www.SRACenter.org
                            > On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:15 AM, "Rick O" <ozman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                            >
                            > this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                            >
                            > 30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                            >
                            > spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                            >
                            > crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                            >
                            > cranium.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                            >
                            > found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                            >
                            > Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                            >
                            > the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                            >
                            > Scott Wolter.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                            >
                            > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > jmcjr
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                            >
                            > jameyboy@ wrote:
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > I hear ya Charlie,
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                            >
                            > despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > For Sale
                            >
                            > > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                            >
                            > can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                            >
                            > of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                            >
                            > Georgia.
                            >
                            > > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                            >
                            > early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                            >
                            > may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                            >
                            > AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > Give Away
                            >
                            > > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                            >
                            > to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                            >
                            > entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                            >
                            > this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > be well,
                            >
                            > > > jamey
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                            >
                            > <charbruns@> wrote:
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                            >
                            > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                            >
                            > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                            >
                            > > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                            >
                            > Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                            >
                            > was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                            >
                            > mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                            >
                            > Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > be well,
                            >
                            > > > > jamey
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                            >
                            > <mlbennett@> wrote:
                            >
                            > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                            >
                            > check on
                            >
                            > > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                            >
                            > Cody and
                            >
                            > > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                            >
                            > immediately,
                            >
                            > > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                            >
                            > to a
                            >
                            > > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                            >
                            > Jesse Lansky
                            >
                            > > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                            >
                            > keep
                            >
                            > > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                            >
                            > (30's,40's) was
                            >
                            > > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                            >
                            > Mexicans
                            >
                            > > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                            >
                            > and have
                            >
                            > > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                            >
                            > Mark
                            >
                            > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                            >
                            > for being an
                            >
                            > > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Jeff
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            >
                            > > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                            >
                            > > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                            >
                            > > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                            >
                            > Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                            >
                            > Wisdom"
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                            >
                            > "internet
                            >
                            > > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                            >
                            > > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Jeff
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            >
                            > > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                            >
                            > > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                            >
                            > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                            >
                            > Wisdom"
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                            >
                            > > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                            >
                            > > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                            >
                            > > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                            >
                            > > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                            >
                            > > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                            >
                            > > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                            >
                            > > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                            >
                            > > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                            >
                            > > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                            >
                            > > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                            >
                            > > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                            >
                            > > > > > > was so dark.
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                            >
                            > > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                            >
                            > > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                            >
                            > word.
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > be well,
                            >
                            > > > > > > jamey
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                            >
                            > > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                            >
                            > although I
                            >
                            > > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Jeff
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                            >
                            > have no
                            >
                            > > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                            >
                            > > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                            >
                            > > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                            >
                            > Wisdom"
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                            >
                            > abstrat
                            >
                            > > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                            >
                            > > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                            >
                            > > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                            >
                            > this
                            >
                            > > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                            >
                            > Slumber Event
                            >
                            > > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                            >
                            > produced 2
                            >
                            > > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                            >
                            > Scott. Joe
                            >
                            > > > > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has
                            >
                            > had enough
                            >
                            > > > > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
                            >
                            > may take
                            >
                            > > > > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan
                            >
                            > Stan &
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups.
                            >
                            > > > > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner
                            >
                            > than we
                            >
                            > > > > > >> currently realize.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide
                            >
                            > wont be
                            >
                            > > > > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although
                            >
                            > ambergris is
                            >
                            > > > > > >> costly.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery
                            >
                            > could
                            >
                            > > > > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Read more:
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-\
                            >
                            > vomit-fo\
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc\
                            >
                            > 9KNuJD
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at
                            >
                            > Ancient
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
                            >
                            > regarding
                            >
                            > > > > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
                            >
                            > prefer it
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due
                            >
                            > to short
                            >
                            > > > > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
                            >
                            > 98% more
                            >
                            > > > > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am
                            >
                            > not a
                            >
                            > > > > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
                            >
                            > Sometime I
                            >
                            > > > > > >> forget I'm not.
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> be well,
                            >
                            > > > > > >> jamey
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
                            >
                            > <tedsojka@>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> wrote:
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by
                            >
                            > Gary
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky,
                            >
                            > ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska,
                            >
                            > Montana,
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Hudson
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my
                            >
                            > town for
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people
                            >
                            > here in
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met
                            >
                            > and what
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > they had to say.
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
                            >
                            > adorned
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a
                            >
                            > fine old
                            >
                            > > > > > >> photo
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them,
                            >
                            > probably an
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul,
                            >
                            > and that
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
                            >
                            > ancient
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As
                            >
                            > the
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be
                            >
                            > a wake up
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed
                            >
                            > word
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says
                            >
                            > it must be
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work,
                            >
                            > using
                            >
                            > > > > > >> models
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you
                            >
                            > get the
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for
                            >
                            > discussion on
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > this site.
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >> > ted
                            >
                            > > > > > >> >
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > > > > > >>
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > =
                            >
                          • james m clark jr
                            I only have 8 out of 109 Oz Only one clay the rest marble No quartz marbles recovered. Can t recall how many of those It wasn t many something like 89 marble
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 19, 2012
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                              I only have 8 out of 109 Oz
                              Only one clay the rest marble
                              No quartz marbles recovered.
                              Can't recall how many of those
                              It wasn't many something like

                              89 marble
                              14 quartz
                              7 clay

                              or whatever I said at AWS sometime
                              back.

                              Cousin kept one I suppose I had given
                              a few away that were marble and struck
                              one with a solid blow one I must of
                              thought was quartz split it about center
                              as man tring to dive a 8p nail with
                              a forceful intenton of sinking it in
                              2 licks. 1 tiny chip was missing as
                              I eye-balled it some more to see how
                              off centered I was which was barely
                              noticable from the halves... as I said
                              before this stone had a core in the
                              center. Never seen nothing like it.
                              Pit on one half the core in the other
                              dead center as far as I could tell.

                              When my brother had first shown me
                              these marbles and he told me where he
                              had found them at being on a horse ranch
                              I had assume that they may have been
                              some type of gall stone until I seen
                              the clay ones in the fish tank I really
                              had no interest in them.

                              If these babies were a projectile these
                              bad boy wasn't intended to rattle some
                              brains...damn Yuchi blow gun perhap?

                              be well,
                              jamey







                              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Rick O" <ozman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > "Marbles" were more for playing head games and it is a bit ironic that
                              > this comes in a thread that also mentions kosher vs non-kosher.
                              >
                              > Most of the clay and stone "marbles" found in NA sites are about 27 to
                              > 30 mm in diameter. Some are heavily damaged. In order for the hard
                              > spheres to become so heavily damaged, they had to either have been
                              > crunched by farm implements or had to hit something very hard, like a
                              > cranium.
                              >
                              > These objects are almost certainly missiles for slings. When they are
                              > found in any other part of the world, that is the immediate presumption.
                              > Yet, when found in a Native American site, we jump to children's toys as
                              > the presumption. What is wrong with this picture?
                              >
                              > Jamie, I would very much like the opportunity to run a few of these past
                              > Scott Wolter.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                              > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > ...was at 103 dropped to 101 now at 88 AWS members within a day.
                              > >
                              > > jmcjr
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                              > jameyboy@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I hear ya Charlie,
                              > > >
                              > > > AWS could have it's own Barter System or fund raiser. Personally I
                              > despize the term handout. Being greatful goes either way.
                              > > >
                              > > > We could call it the AWS Keep Charlie out of the Corn Beef Cans Fund
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > For Sale
                              > > > Create an easy way for people to buy and sell from each other. You
                              > can choose to customize the application to make it about a specific type
                              > of item (e.g. bicycles or tickets or ) or leave it open to anything.
                              > > >
                              > > > I have 8 clay marble & marble marbles found in Monroe County
                              > Georgia.
                              > > > They could have been made for Creek Cherokee East Africans or for
                              > early settlement childern around the Treaty of Indian Springs. If some
                              > may recall these are of the 109 I use to have and was going to give to
                              > AWS members... which ironiclly currently is at 101 members
                              > > >
                              > > > min. Value is estimated at $200.00 each.
                              > > >
                              > > > Give Away
                              > > > Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated
                              > to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else
                              > entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members,
                              > this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away.
                              > > >
                              > > > be well,
                              > > > jamey
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
                              > <charbruns@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > send me all you want. alot depends on if you are hungry. chb
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                              > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:59 PM
                              > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native Wisdom"
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ... one thing is for certian canned corn beef is nasty.
                              > > > > COME AND GET IT!!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Burnheat family aka Bernard family were among earlest settlers in
                              > Senoia Georgia following the Indian Springs Treaty. Sim Clower Burnard
                              > was alotted 20,000 acers here and following the Civil War built a water
                              > mill or grist mill on Bear Creek and laid to rest under a nearby Oak
                              > Tree if I recall the archives correctly.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > be well,
                              > > > > jamey
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bennett"
                              > <mlbennett@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > It was very interesting to read what you wrote. After a double
                              > check on
                              > > > > > the internet I agree with you. I once spent a day with Iron Eyes
                              > Cody and
                              > > > > > he certainly played the Native American. He asked, almost
                              > immediately,
                              > > > > > about my ethnicity. When I told him I was Jewish he subjected me
                              > to a
                              > > > > > long story about being "forced" into eating a corned beef by
                              > Jesse Lansky
                              > > > > > and how it was totally disguising. Since reading this post I
                              > keep
                              > > > > > rethinking that day. The traditional Hollywood formula
                              > (30's,40's) was
                              > > > > > to have Anglos play the cowboys, Italians and Jews play the
                              > Mexicans
                              > > > > > (you can spot a Brooklyn gesture among some in the crowd scenes)
                              > and have
                              > > > > > the Mexicans play the Indians with the real Indians unemployed.
                              > Mark
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > > In a related case, I have heard that Iron Eyes Cody was sued
                              > for being an
                              > > > > > > Italian impersonating a Native American.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Jeff
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > > > > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@
                              > > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:22:46
                              > > > > > > To: Ancient Waterways
                              > Societyancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                              > Wisdom"
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Hello, Mr. Clark. Consider asking Brenda Golden about
                              > "internet
                              > > > > > > pretendians." She did an hour long program about them on
                              > > > > > > blogtalkradio.com .
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Jeff
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > > > > From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                              > > > > > > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:57:58
                              > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                              > Wisdom"
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I'm not sure I'd use intrude. It seems very differnt
                              > > > > > > now than it use to be. I'm not sure if it's because
                              > > > > > > I'm older or if natural youthfulness has actually
                              > > > > > > grown up just a tad bit. Trust is a hard thing to come
                              > > > > > > by in righting wrongs. Being a non native as you are
                              > > > > > > and not knowing your great great grandmother isn't
                              > > > > > > stange. I knew my great grandmother but not as the
                              > > > > > > older grandkids did. Being that kid was strange. And
                              > > > > > > my grandfather I'll never forget when I was 5 he came in
                              > > > > > > the house and shut the door when I realized suddenly it
                              > > > > > > was only him and I in the living room. I knew him very
                              > > > > > > well, yet it never donged on me to ever ask him why he
                              > > > > > > was so dark.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > can't say that I've ever come across "pretendian" before;
                              > > > > > > not that I can recall of. Is this in a slanguage dictionary
                              > > > > > > yet? Seems there would be at least 2 or 3 meaning for the
                              > word.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > be well,
                              > > > > > > jamey
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com,
                              > > > > > > quarefremeruntgentes7@ wrote:
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> I am wondering about the Native Google group you mentioned,
                              > although I
                              > > > > > >> would not want to intrude, being a non-native.*
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Jeff
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> *My great-great grandmother was a Native American, however, I
                              > have no
                              > > > > > >> inclination to be a pretendian --Jeff.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
                              > > > > > >> From: "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@>
                              > > > > > >> Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:07:41
                              > > > > > >> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >> Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: "Learning Native
                              > Wisdom"
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Thanks again Ted,
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Currently I am seeking permission to use Hilery B Bookers
                              > abstrat
                              > > > > > >> review for Learning Native Wisdom at:
                              > > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native2native2
                              > > > > > >> and in a Native 2 timeline sometime later.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Gary's book was first published online on April 22. I thought
                              > this
                              > > > > > >> would be an excellant opener prior to Awakening Day of
                              > Slumber Event
                              > > > > > >> April 22 at Native 2. So far pronmotinal skills has only
                              > produced 2
                              > > > > > >> members and I have yet to inviite Joe Wakins or Fla. Gov.
                              > Scott. Joe
                              > > > > > >> isn't the newsgroup type and Gov. Scott more than likely has
                              > had enough
                              > > > > > >> criticism. More than likey this will be a yearly atempt so it
                              > may take
                              > > > > > >> some time to incline an ear in the long run. Hopefully Susan
                              > Stan &
                              > > > > > >> Vince will give the AWS group most of the App options at
                              > Yahoo! Groups.
                              > > > > > >> This will enhances group particapation greatly I think sooner
                              > than we
                              > > > > > >> currently realize.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Hopefully the Inuit/NANA & other coastal natives worldwide
                              > wont be
                              > > > > > >> effected much right away by the pefuming industry although
                              > ambergris is
                              > > > > > >> costly.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Subsitute for ambergris -- or whale vomit -- found; Discovery
                              > could
                              > > > > > >> relace pricey perfume ingredient
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Read more:
                              > > > > > >>
                              > http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/subsitute-ambergris-whale-\
                              > vomit-fo\
                              > > > > > >>
                              > und-discovery-relace-pricey-perfume-ingredient-article-1.1058714#ixzz1rc\
                              > 9KNuJD
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Jeff also sent an email to Sitting Owl and Oz besides me at
                              > Ancient
                              > > > > > >> Waterways somewhat as a heads up or alert.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/a-difficult-choice-on-water/
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> posted this at American Indian Injustice along with my reply
                              > regarding
                              > > > > > >> the Dine 5 days later. Not accustom to email and I don't
                              > prefer it
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Not sure why he didn't send it to you also Ted... perhaps due
                              > to short
                              > > > > > >> stay... at any rate, AWS is currently at 101 which is roughly
                              > 98% more
                              > > > > > >> active than Native 2. Perhaps I don't state enough that I am
                              > not a
                              > > > > > >> ligit AWS member and perhaps not as welcome as I use to be.
                              > Sometime I
                              > > > > > >> forget I'm not.
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> be well,
                              > > > > > >> jamey
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
                              > <tedsojka@>
                              > > > > > >> wrote:
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > There is a great book called "Learning Native Wisdom", by
                              > Gary
                              > > > > > >> > Holthaus, University Press of Kentucky,
                              > ISBN978-0-8131-2487-2
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > Gary has spent a life, learning from others in Alaska,
                              > Montana,
                              > > > > > >> Hudson
                              > > > > > >> > Bay area, and about anywhere he has gone. He visited my
                              > town for
                              > > > > > >> > three months this past Winter. He met many local people
                              > here in
                              > > > > > >> > Northeast Iowa, and wrote some reflections on those he met
                              > and what
                              > > > > > >> > they had to say.
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > At the Library here I picked up the book on Native Wisdom,
                              > adorned
                              > > > > > >> > with photos of native fisherman in aluminum boats and a
                              > fine old
                              > > > > > >> photo
                              > > > > > >> > of a traditional fishing net being mended by one of them,
                              > probably an
                              > > > > > >> > Edwin S Curtis photo or contemporay.
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > The subtitle is , "What traditional cultures teach us about
                              > > > > > >> > Subsistence, Sustainability, and Spirituality"
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > It is wonderful story about education for the long haul,
                              > and that
                              > > > > > >> > among the Innuit is many thousands of years. I think most
                              > ancient
                              > > > > > >> > waterways people would have a good read with this book. As
                              > the
                              > > > > > >> > culture we have ignores global warning signs, this might be
                              > a wake up
                              > > > > > >> > call on how we can weather this coming event. The hackneyed
                              > word
                              > > > > > >> > "sustainable" is part of the answer. bit Mr. Holthaus says
                              > it must be
                              > > > > > >> > part of the culture and its beliefs, before ti will work,
                              > using
                              > > > > > >> models
                              > > > > > >> > that have been around for thousands of years. If any of you
                              > get the
                              > > > > > >> > book from your library it would make a good topic for
                              > discussion on
                              > > > > > >> > this site.
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >> > ted
                              > > > > > >> >
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> ------------------------------------
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > > >>
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • minnesotastan@yahoo.com
                              If Im not mistaken Larry mon, it seems it may have been our Sting Stone Stan (Min.Stan) who may have brought this up last year regarding these marbles that
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 28, 2012
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                                " If Im not mistaken Larry mon, it seems it may have been our Sting
                                Stone Stan (Min.Stan) who may have brought this up last year regarding
                                these marbles that somewhat favor turtle eggs but smaller or around the
                                subject of Klerksdorp spheres also."

                                "I once read how real marbles were made anciently by placing a small
                                rounded stone in a hole or depressioin in the rock and letting running
                                water fall on it and turn it until it was perfectly rounded."

                                I don't remember having commenting on that topic in the past.
                                Near-perfect spheres can certainly be created by water tumbling a rock
                                in a depression (just find a river with some holes in the underlying
                                bedrock or holes at the base of cascades and look in the bottom). But
                                that kind of process takes forever. I'm sure ancient people would have
                                "harvested" such spheres for various purposes, but can't conceive of
                                them placing stones there in an effort to create spheres.

                                Just my opinion.
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