Re: The Prince of Wales in 1170-1190 Madoc/Madog
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Perhaps it is a good time to bring this up again, I have yet found a a maternal link to this so called prince. There is a Madoc that was an heir much later who could have made such a claim as a claimant, although I am not even aware that he ever did in all his living days.
I can only assume that this is a modern projection for I have yet seen an anglo saxon chat that even includes a Madoc or Madog in it.
Perhaps one of the latter day Princes will include maybe one spoken of in the long list of heirs uttered... But even if the record exists online it wouldn't seem to include a non apparent trans-Atlantic Prince or even an heir... Perhaps this is merely a trans-Atlantic title only possible in a land not of their own but welcome nevertheless as a claimant which would have granted passage and apparently a sense of settlement.
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I'm not sure what you've got here. Did Oconostota make some statement about Moon-eyed people and Madoc? This pedigree link you listed was for Madoc (Madog ab Howel Velyn, son of Howel Velyn) born about 1206 and lived in the south end of Wales in Glamorgan. Madoc (Madog ab Owain Gwynedd, son of Owain Gwynedd) was the one who supposedly fled to North America, lived in 1170 in northeast Wales in Gwynedd. Granted, there is only about 130 miles difference between those locales. Madoc may have been a very common first name in those centuries in Wales. So the time, the locale, and the parentage don't look like a proper connection between the Madog ab Howel Velyn and Madog ab Owain Gwynedd.
Thanks for the post anyway, as it would be interesting to see what Oconostota said about Moon-eyed people.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, quarefremeruntgentes7@... wrote:
> Jeff here, following up on an old thread.
> While I disagree with various points raised by Alan Wilson and Baird Blackett, as a member of the Welsh diaspora, I still have a natural interest in many aspects of their work.
> Disagreements aside, I remember multiple occasions, beginning in late 2005, when I followed a friend's suggestion to research new studies of Arthurian history. My friend specifically referred to the discovery of a Tomb of King Arthur. After repeated attempts on my part, I do not remember any internet search engines ever connecting me to any site relating to Alan Wilson's and Baram Blackett's studies.
> It was only this month that I finally followed this 2011 thread to some YouTube videos mentioning Prince Madoc, and then followed a link to Wilson's and Blackett's site.
> I am not sure why these sites were so difficult to track down, although I suppose my query terms might have been too vague.
> Jeff Lewin
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Rick O" <ozman@...>
> Sender: email@example.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:29:55
> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Reply-To: email@example.com
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: The Prince of Wales in 1170-1190 Madoc/Madog
> For a little more in depth study of Prince Madoc, look up the works of
> Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett. Madoc was an oft used name in ancient
> Wales and the Kumric language is full of pitfalls of nuance. There seems
> to be a disparity also between "Historical" Madoc/Madog and the dates
> assigned by medieval chroniclers. That disparity is about 600 years.
> According to Wilson's interpretation of the Kumric, Madog made 2 round
> trip voyages. About two years ago, a shipwreck was discovered /
> investigated off the south shore of Wales that contained 29 copper and 3
> tin "bun" ingots, a really good ratio to make bronze. To me, that is
> clear evidence that Wales was likely a trans-shipment point for both
> Cornish tin and Michigan copper.
> When we get caught up in dates and names and claims of one nation or
> leader over another, we tend to lose perspective of the "why". Trade and
> commerce was almost always the reason. Occasionally, a better life was
> the reason. According to Wilson and Blackett, that was the case in 565.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "james m clark jr"
> <jameyboy@> wrote:
> > Before comming across carnavals theories of diffusion a simular story
> was found at Valdosta State Musuem in 2002 burried in the authors online
> book that contains over 6000 pages on a verity of topics besides
> transAtlantic theories which has been updated and I haven't had time to
> browse yet other than not recalling the term moon eyed people.
> > http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/EtowahMounds.html
> > Regarding "Madoc" and a Cherokee Chief's [sorry I don't recall the
> Chief's name] statement that is said to be burried in the archives of
> the state of Georgia that I'd yet to have found evident, for these
> sources seem to be elsuive once again as if it's privliged only to some
> sacred order or society of control freeks although it was in Georgia
> Fort Hawkins was established as the main trading post for the Ohio for a
> > The Cherokee Chief that sopposedly gives an acount regarding the
> friends of the Cherokee, other wise known as the blue eyed people is
> said at the time was a heavy drinker who gives the account that seems to
> be widely spread among English and perhaps Scottish. Not only is it it
> the Mandan the Blue eyed people are also said to be desendants of the
> Yuchi also who had homes of plaster walls and floors at the former Yuchi
> Town which now is Uncle Sams Fort Benning Georgia. In 1776 the Federal
> Government even had a flag promoting Yuchi Town but ironically the
> Federal Government never reconized the Yuchi peoples as a nation.
> > Wales 1170 - 1190 AD - Prince Madog Ab Owain Gwynedd
> > Prince Madog sailed from Abergwili in Wales in 1170 with 10 ships and
> settled near Mobile, Alabama. He had returned a year earlier with his
> discovery and saw the journey as an escape from the constant battles
> between his 18 brothers and sisters. After some battles with the
> Cheyenne, they built forts resembling their Dolwyddelan Castle and
> integrated with a tribe called Mandans. They retained their dialect and
> built villages with streets and squares. They existed till 1837 when
> they were wiped out by a smallpox epidemic introduced by traders.
> > http://www.carnaval.com/columbus/diffusion.htm
> > jmcjr
> > tip:
> > If you have Adobe Acrobat 9 you can save the link as a pdf an compare
> it with any other document and editoral notes and other editorsal tools
> used to edit a document in most cases will pop up if they have not been
> removed. It is quit revealing when seaching deveopmental phases.
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