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Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Radical theory of first Americans places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago

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  • Larry Hancock
    Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can t it  be both? ... From: Ted Sojka Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Radical
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 19 9:58 AM
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      Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't it  be both?

      --- On Mon, 3/19/12, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:

      From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Radical theory of first Americans places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 11:19 AM

       


      Martin,
      I believe some of the links that were if recent messages talked about back and forth traffic on the East coast.  There is some good reading in the messages and on the links in them.
      Ted
      On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:36 AM, martincarriere@... wrote:

       


      These one way passage theories are nice yet by excluding the indigenous understanding of the history of the world, which goes a lot further back than 20,000 years, the theories are euro-biased. The indigenous understanding for many is that our families left from the Americas over the ice bridge following their food supplies that were migrating close to 40,000 years ago to merge with the neanderthal peoples creating the cro-magnan evolution. This little discussed understanding is more supportable than any of these later theories of the european families coming here to invent their ancestors.

      Love and blessings to all,
      Martin Carriere


    • bigalemc2
      It always amazes me how rarely we all view new developments and new discoveries in terms of the continuum of our collective understanding. These Delmarva
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 19 12:19 PM
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        It always amazes me how rarely we all view new developments and new discoveries in terms of the continuum of our collective understanding.  These Delmarva findings are not the final word, just as the previous state of affairs was not.  At all times 'modern' man for some idiotic seems to think, "Now we know it all," while in reality we are only just a bit further along the continuum.  We can pick up our marker and move it another millimeter along the way, the way which stretches so far out into the future.  Our knowledge of the past is a work in progress.  We didn't know all the day before these discoveries were made, we don't know it all now, and we won't know it all twenty years from now.

        At the same time, it is thoroughly enjoyable to see, when evidence supporting our own piecing together of the past - especially when it shows the establishment mumbo jumbo pap-for-the-masses crap for the b.s. that it is.

        The arkies will be dragged, kicking and screaming, one freaking piece of evidence at a time, into our perspective.  We do not think we know it all.  We only accept more evidence than the arkies do, and that has given us a bigger - and more complete - picture of the past, even if it is not the whole picture.  It is good when "I told you so" moments come along, mostly because it affirms our superior intelligence (I do mean that literally!).  Superior intelligence means better discernment and better assembling of the facts at hand, so we should not run around with false modesty - particularly when an event makes the less intelligent arkies have to further update their gestalt.

        It is very significant that new discoveries move the gestalt closer to our POV, while year after year their POV is shown to be more and more inadequate - even as they adapt their POV and pretend that they knew it all along.  Even their new POVs are inadequate!  At every stage of the game, their POV has to keep changing, while ours stands in one spot while the evidence moves ever nearer.

        Superior intelligence does mean better discernment and better assembling, and we should all be proud and happy that we were able to see the bigger picture long ago.  Yes, watching their slow agonizing progress and their so-often wrong turns is a pain - because if we were in their collective shoes we would all have moved the understanding forward so much faster.

        So, pat yourselves on the back every time one of these moments comes along that moves the overall understanding another inch toward our POV.

        Steve Garcia
      • William Conner
        Steve: Archaeology as it is done by American professionals is a joke.  While in some fields of study the professionals work at the highest level of inquiry,
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 20 4:44 PM
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          Steve:
           
          Archaeology as it is done by American professionals is a joke.  While in some fields of study the professionals work at the highest level of inquiry, our pros are stuck in the muck of the old "none before Columbus" bull....  No one knows this better than I do, because I became the beneficiary of their fear of crossing the "none before" line.  And I was invited and encouraged by some of them to lead the investigation of Ohio's prehistoric iron furnaces.  So I
          can't be too upset about their behavior.  However, I do wish someone would cross this line and work with me at the site where I found the world's only cast iron hand axe.  This site is a low first terrace above the North Fork of Paint Creek just outside of Chillicothe, Ohio, and could be swept away by a flood. 
           
          William Conner 
          Author of "Iron Age America: Before Columbus" 


          From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, March 19, 2012 3:19:54 PM
          Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Radical theory of first Americans places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago

           

          It always amazes me how rarely we all view new developments and new discoveries in terms of the continuum of our collective understanding.  These Delmarva findings are not the final word, just as the previous state of affairs was not.  At all times 'modern' man for some idiotic seems to think, "Now we know it all," while in reality we are only just a bit further along the continuum.  We can pick up our marker and move it another millimeter along the way, the way which stretches so far out into the future.  Our knowledge of the past is a work in progress.  We didn't know all the day before these discoveries were made, we don't know it all now, and we won't know it all twenty years from now.

          At the same time, it is thoroughly enjoyable to see, when evidence supporting our own piecing together of the past - especially when it shows the establishment mumbo jumbo pap-for-the-masses crap for the b.s. that it is.

          The arkies will be dragged, kicking and screaming, one freaking piece of evidence at a time, into our perspective.  We do not think we know it all.  We only accept more evidence than the arkies do, and that has given us a bigger - and more complete - picture of the past, even if it is not the whole picture.  It is good when "I told you so" moments come along, mostly because it affirms our superior intelligence (I do mean that literally!).  Superior intelligence means better discernment and better assembling of the facts at hand, so we should not run around with false modesty - particularly when an event makes the less intelligent arkies have to further update their gestalt.

          It is very significant that new discoveries move the gestalt closer to our POV, while year after year their POV is shown to be more and more inadequate - even as they adapt their POV and pretend that they knew it all along.  Even their new POVs are inadequate!  At every stage of the game, their POV has to keep changi! ng, while ours stands in one spot while the evidence moves ever nearer.

          Superior intelligence does mean better discernment and better assembling, and we should all be proud and happy that we were able to see the bigger picture long ago.  Yes, watching their slow agonizing progress and their so-often wrong turns is a pain - because if we were in their collective shoes we would all have moved the understanding forward so much faster.

          So, pat yourselves on the back every time one of these moments comes along that moves the overall understanding another inch toward our POV.

          Steve Garcia

        • Rick O
          Yes, William, finding an artifact that is of an undeniable nature is not something the Columbus First crowd wants to do themselves. The irony (pun fully
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 22 5:55 AM
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            Yes, William, finding an artifact that is of an undeniable nature is not something the Columbus First crowd wants to do themselves. The irony (pun fully intended) is that a dozen or so artifacts or other types of evidence (DNA, skeletal, linguistic, scripts, technologies, burial practices, collateral species, etc.) all coincide fairly well for at least a half dozen waves of migration. And, as Martin pointed out, the waves washed both ways.

            Perhaps one day the public outcry will be too loud for the naysayers to override it.


            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, William Conner <conner6343@...> wrote:
            >
            > Steve:
            >
            > Archaeology as it is done by American professionals is a joke.  While in some
            > fields of study the professionals work at the highest level of inquiry, our pros
            > are stuck in the muck of the old "none before Columbus" bull....  No one knows
            > this better than I do, because I became the beneficiary of their fear of
            > crossing the "none before" line.  And I was invited and encouraged by some of
            > them to lead the investigation of Ohio's prehistoric iron furnaces.  So I
            >
            > can't be too upset about their behavior.  However, I do wish someone would cross
            > this line and work with me at the site where I found the world's only cast iron
            > hand axe.  This site is a low first terrace above the North Fork of Paint Creek
            > just outside of Chillicothe, Ohio, and could be swept away by a flood. 
            >
            >
            > William Conner 
            > Author of "Iron Age America: Before Columbus" 
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: bigalemc2 puppet@...
            > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Mon, March 19, 2012 3:19:54 PM
            > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Radical theory of first Americans
            > places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago
            >
            >  
            > It always amazes me how rarely we all view new developments and new discoveries
            > in terms of the continuum of our collective understanding.  These Delmarva
            > findings are not the final word, just as the previous state of affairs was not. 
            > At all times 'modern' man for some idiotic seems to think, "Now we know it all,"
            > while in reality we are only just a bit further along the continuum.  We can
            > pick up our marker and move it another millimeter along the way, the way which
            > stretches so far out into the future.  Our knowledge of the past is a work in
            > progress.  We didn't know all the day before these discoveries were made, we
            > don't know it all now, and we won't know it all twenty years from now.
            >
            > At the same time, it is thoroughly enjoyable to see, when evidence supporting
            > our own piecing together of the past - especially when it shows the
            > establishment mumbo jumbo pap-for-the-masses crap for the b.s. that it is.
            >
            > The arkies will be dragged, kicking and screaming, one freaking piece of
            > evidence at a time, into our perspective.  We do not think we know it all.  We
            > only accept more evidence than the arkies do, and that has given us a bigger -
            > and more complete - picture of the past, even if it is not the whole picture. 
            > It is good when "I told you so" moments come along, mostly because it affirms
            > our superior intelligence (I do mean that literally!).  Superior intelligence
            > means better discernment and better assembling of the facts at hand, so we
            > should not run around with false modesty - particularly when an event makes the
            > less intelligent arkies have to further update their gestalt.
            >
            > It is very significant that new discoveries move the gestalt closer to our POV,
            > while year after year their POV is shown to be more and more inadequate - even
            > as they adapt their POV and pretend that they knew it all along.  Even their new
            > POVs are inadequate!  At every stage of the game, their POV has to keep changi!
            > ng, while ours stands in one spot while the evidence moves ever nearer.
            >
            > Superior intelligence does mean better discernment and better assembling, and we
            > should all be proud and happy that we were able to see the bigger picture long
            > ago.  Yes, watching their slow agonizing progress and their so-often wrong turns
            > is a pain - because if we were in their collective shoes we would all have moved
            > the understanding forward so much faster.
            >
            > So, pat yourselves on the back every time one of these moments comes along that
            > moves the overall understanding another inch toward our POV.
            >
            > Steve Garcia
            >
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