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Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites

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  • TRAYLOROO
    Re the giants ....  Do the Toltec stone heads, Maya area, can they be tied to the giants of this discussion?  Some researchers suggest these stone heads
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2012
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      Re the giants ....  Do the Toltec stone heads, Maya area, can they be tied to the giants of this discussion?  Some researchers suggest these stone heads depict visitors from China.  But, the heads are found closer to the Gulf waters which suggest visitors from the Atlantic side.  And, visitors from the East agrees with Maya Indian oral history, as I recall.
       
      Also, along the coast of Texas in the Victoria area the first pioneers reported the Indians being of giant size who preferred the marsh areas near the Gulf.  These Indians were not friendly.                  
       
      Cal 
       
      ========================
       
      Where are your children tonight? 
      A MUST-SEE VIDEO  click: 
      From: joe white <joe_white@...>
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Pamela Sexton <psexton50@...>
      Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 6:21 PM
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites
       
      yes, we still have the cherokee giants, and cherokee
      little people.  we do not have the funds to explore this dna.
       
      more important is the cherokee/jewish youth gene that is very
      common in our cherokee ladies, and some cherokee gentlemen.
       
      sitting owl
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites

       
      Greetings, all gentlepersons...
      Additional info on the Iroquois origins, for those who might like it:
      I sent the thread about Iroquois migrations to my brother-mentor in Ontario, Canada.
      He is high level, elder status within the Medewiwin Medicine Lodge, and is open to
      answering generalistic questions. He had this to say when I asked him about the thread.
      [bracketed comments mine...cap]

      "All I know about the migration up from South America by the Iroquois was told to me by [one of his Lodge mentors] who passed through the  western door a few years back.

      He was a good friend and we traded back and forth the old way. [in traditional rites and teaching sessions]
       
      The Iroquois lived in the Florida area for a while after coming up from Olmec territories, a place of their roots. [this origin tradition told by the
      Iroquois themselves in Lodge
      ]

      They then traveled up north where they swung East across the Allegheny River.
      At that point, the [to be] Iroquois became engaged in a war with the people on the eastern side of the river, with a farming people of giant stature .
      This war was all through a misunderstanding and it was a bloody one at that.
      The Cherokee took in the farmer-tribe's survivors.
      They are now Cherokee.
      You would know one just to see one as their DNA still carry the magic of huge stature.

      I met one who came to one of the gatherings in 1999 in Australia.
      He was 6 foot 11 inches tall and he let me try on his silver ring so I could tell the story of our meeting and of his great size.
      Just touch your index finger to your ring finger ..... his ring went past the knuckles of all three fingers .... about the size of a big banana. 
      He was like his people .... Gentle Giants.

      The Iroquois traveled east after the war, then north, then back to south central Ontario.
      They do have a snow game that was derived from a far older one.
      The older one is called mud cat. it is a short stick that they slung down a mud trough.
      The winner was the longest distance covered.
      The Snow version of it came much later as they moved north.
      It is called the Snow Snake.
      It looks like a long spear with a bump on the top of the point.
      They still have the Snow Snake races here in the wintertime.

      Any of this help?
      "

      So there you have the inside story from the Native POV, regardless of what
      outside, non-native speculations and theories might generate for chatter.
      My bro told me the Mohawk, especially, will quietly claim without fanfare
      that they are descendants of the Olmec, and say they 'did so' work stone
      before the latest Old World colonists came.

      This might add a bit of twist to the "Maya" controversy in Georgia... ha!
      How would one tell the difference between Olmec and Mayan stone traditions
      and use, when one sprang from the other and co-existed for centuries of
      overlap in real-time? mmmmm.....

      -Chris P


      --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:

      From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:33 PM

      Will (blue Otter),

      Now home on my IPad, I see The link you sent this afternoon for "Holy Grail in America" includes the nine YouTube clips,  and complete History Channel documentary.  On that video you will see fottage of the Copper Harbor, Michigan petroglyphs near member Bob Wheeler's  even older (I believe) petroglyphs on his property. . Member Renoud DeJong has written articles on both sites. Any members still unable  to access  the History Channel documentary may borrow the DVD sent to me compliments of director and producer Andy and Marie Awes who I believe are among those who read Posts at our site from time to time. I know they and Committee Films have at least another documentary en process. 
      Will, re: the Post you sent a couple of weeks ago re: possible Mayan ruins in Georgia, here is another link I saw today on Ancient American Magazine's Facebook site.  Would be very interested in ongoing comments on those Georgia research sites.   Also the "Topper" site. 

      Ancient Walled City, Older Than Egypt's Pyramis, Unearthed Off Georgia Coast" :

      http://www.examiner.com/road-trip-travel-in-atlanta/ancient-walled-city-older-than-egypt-s-pyramids-unearthed-off-georgia-coast
      Susan 
      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote: > > > This would be further verification of what Cherokee traditional elders have long been saying... that we lived alongside them. > > see http://cherokeediscovery.com/history.html
      from http://gma.yahoo.com/mayan-ruins-georgia-archeologist-objects-222330576--abc-news.html
      > The textbooks will tell you that the Mayan people thrived in Central America from about 250 to 900 A.D., building magnificent temples in Guatemala, Honduras, Belize and southern Mexico. > > But could they possibly have left stone ruins in the mountains of North Georgia? Richard Thornton thinks so. He says he's an architect by training, but has been > researching the history of native people in and around Georgia for > years. On Examiner.com, he wrote about an 1,100-year-old archeological site near Georgia's highest mountain, Brasstown Bald, that he said "is possibly the site of the fabled city of Yupaha, which Spanish explorer Hernando de Soto failed to find in 1540." > This might all be fairly arcane stuff, except that an archeologist he cited, Mark Williams of the University of Georgia, took exception. In the comments section after Thornton's piece, he > wrote, "I am the archaeologist Mark Williams mentioned in this article. > This is total and complete bunk. There is no evidence of Maya in > Georgia. Move along now." > > Immediately the story exploded. In comments on Examiner, as well as on > Facebook and in emails, users piled on. One woman called Williams > "completely pompous and arrogant." A man wrote he was "completely > disrespectful to the Public at large." Another said he would urge the > state of Georgia to cut off funding for Williams' academic department at the university. > > All of this left Thornton, who writes often about the Maya for Examiner.com, "dumfounded."
      > > "I actually was giving Williams a plug," he said in an interview with > ABC News. "I've got a regular readership, but this thing just went > viral." > > Thornton, who said he is Georgia Creek Indian by birth, volunteered that doing research about Mesoamerican culture in the U.S. has been a > difficult way to make a living. For nine months before the Examiner > hired him, he said he was so poor he had to live out of a tent. He said he now makes money by writing online and lecturing. > > Some of his conclusions about the Mayan connection to the southern U.S., he said, are based on oral history. There are > place names in Georgia and North Carolina, he said, that are very > similar to Mayan words. And the ruins near Brasstown Bald, he said, > include mounds and irrigation terraces similar to those found at Mayan > settlements in Central America. > > Williams, the doubting archeologist, had many online defenders. "While > there are many, many compelling parallels between Central American and > North American indigenous mythologies," wrote one, "that does not mean > there was direct evidence that the post-Classic Period Collapse Maya > emigrated all the way to Georgia." > Williams stood his ground against Thornton's suggestion that Brasstown > Bald has any Mayan roots. "The sites are certainly those of Native > Americans of prehistoric Georgia," he wrote in an email. "Wild theories > are not new, but the web simply spreads them faster than ever." >
    • Chris Patenaude
      No. The giant race of the upper NE/ New England area were a people of their own, no relation to the ones in Mexico. There are European records from the
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 2, 2012
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        No. The 'giant' race of the upper NE/ "New England" area were a people of their own, no relation to the ones in Mexico. There are European records from the 1600's depicting this Tribe meeting the new colonizers. The early Iroquois migrators met the "giants" already native to the Allegheny regions.
         
        Of a puzzle is why my bracketed comments came out printed in Greek.
        The first one should have been
        )was told to me by [one of his Lodge mentors]...
        The second
        )back and forth the old way. [by traditional rites and teaching sessions]...
        The third
        place of their roots. [this origin tradition told by the Iroquois themselves in Lodge]...
        And the fourth
        )At that point, the [to be] Iroquois...
        -c 
         
         
         
        --- On Thu, 2/2/12, TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...> wrote:

        From: TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...>
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites
        To: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: "Pamela Sexton" <psexton50@...>
        Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 7:39 AM



        Re the giants ....  Do the Toltec stone heads, Maya area, can they be tied to the giants of this discussion?  Some researchers suggest these stone heads depict visitors from China.  But, the heads are found closer to the Gulf waters which suggest visitors from the Atlantic side.  And, visitors from the East agrees with Maya Indian oral history, as I recall.
         
        Also, along the coast of Texas in the Victoria area the first pioneers reported the Indians being of giant size who preferred the marsh areas near the Gulf.  These Indians were not friendly.                  
         
        Cal 
         
        ========================
         
        Where are your children tonight? 
        A MUST-SEE VIDEO  click: 
        From: joe white <joe_white@...>
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Pamela Sexton <psexton50@...>
        Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 6:21 PM
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites
         
        yes, we still have the cherokee giants, and cherokee
        little people.  we do not have the funds to explore this dna.
         
        more important is the cherokee/jewish youth gene that is very
        common in our cherokee ladies, and some cherokee gentlemen.
         
        sitting owl
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:08 PM
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites

         
        Greetings, all gentlepersons...
        Additional info on the Iroquois origins, for those who might like it:
        I sent the thread about Iroquois migrations to my brother-mentor in Ontario, Canada.
        He is high level, elder status within the Medewiwin Medicine Lodge, and is open to
        answering generalistic questions. He had this to say when I asked him about the thread.
        [bracketed comments mine...cap]

        "All I know about the migration up from South America by the Iroquois was told to me by [one of his Lodge mentors] who passed through the  western door a few years back.

        He was a good friend and we traded back and forth the old way. [in traditional rites and teaching sessions]
         
        The Iroquois lived in the Florida area for a while after coming up from Olmec territories, a place of their roots. [this origin tradition told by the
        Iroquois themselves in Lodge
        ]

        They then traveled up north where they swung East across the Allegheny River.
        At that point, the [to be] Iroquois became engaged in a war with the people on the eastern side of the river, with a farming people of giant stature .
        This war was all through a misunderstanding and it was a bloody one at that.
        The Cherokee took in the farmer-tribe's survivors.
        They are now Cherokee.
        You would know one just to see one as their DNA still carry the magic of huge stature.

        I met one who came to one of the gatherings in 1999 in Australia.
        He was 6 foot 11 inches tall and he let me try on his silver ring so I could tell the story of our meeting and of his great size.
        Just touch your index finger to your ring finger ..... his ring went past the knuckles of all three fingers .... about the size of a big banana. 
        He was like his people .... Gentle Giants.

        The Iroquois traveled east after the war, then north, then back to south central Ontario.
        They do have a snow game that was derived from a far older one.
        The older one is called mud cat. it is a short stick that they slung down a mud trough.
        The winner was the longest distance covered.
        The Snow version of it came much later as they moved north.
        It is called the Snow Snake.
        It looks like a long spear with a bump on the top of the point.
        They still have the Snow Snake races here in the wintertime.

        Any of this help?
        "

        So there you have the inside story from the Native POV, regardless of what
        outside, non-native speculations and theories might generate for chatter.
        My bro told me the Mohawk, especially, will quietly claim without fanfare
        that they are descendants of the Olmec, and say they 'did so' work stone
        before the latest Old World colonists came.

        This might add a bit of twist to the "Maya" controversy in Georgia... ha!
        How would one tell the difference between Olmec and Mayan stone traditions
        and use, when one sprang from the other and co-existed for centuries of
        overlap in real-time? mmmmm.....

        -Chris P


        --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:

        From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Mayan Ruins in Georgia? Addl. article on ancient Georgia sites
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 9:33 PM

        Will (blue Otter),

        Now home on my IPad, I see The link you sent this afternoon for "Holy Grail in America" includes the nine YouTube clips,  and complete History Channel documentary.  On that video you will see fottage of the Copper Harbor, Michigan petroglyphs near member Bob Wheeler's  even older (I believe) petroglyphs on his property. . Member Renoud DeJong has written articles on both sites. Any members still unable  to access  the History Channel documentary may borrow the DVD sent to me compliments of director and producer Andy and Marie Awes who I believe are among those who read Posts at our site from time to time. I know they and Committee Films have at least another documentary en process. 
        Will, re: the Post you sent a couple of weeks ago re: possible Mayan ruins in Georgia, here is another link I saw today on Ancient American Magazine's Facebook site.  Would be very interested in ongoing comments on those Georgia research sites.   Also the "Topper" site. 

        Ancient Walled City, Older Than Egypt's Pyramis, Unearthed Off Georgia Coast" :

        http://www.examiner.com/road-trip-travel-in-atlanta/ancient-walled-city-older-than-egypt-s-pyramids-unearthed-off-georgia-coast
        Susan 
        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote: > > > This would be further verification of what Cherokee traditional elders have long been saying... that we lived alongside them. > > see http://cherokeediscovery.com/history.html
        from http://gma.yahoo.com/mayan-ruins-georgia-archeologist-objects-222330576--abc-news.html
        > The textbooks will tell you that the Mayan people thrived in Central America from about 250 to 900 A.D., building magnificent temples in Guatemala, Honduras, Belize and southern Mexico. > > But could they possibly have left stone ruins in the mountains of North Georgia? Richard Thornton thinks so. He says he's an architect by training, but has been > researching the history of native people in and around Georgia for > years. On Examiner.com, he wrote about an 1,100-year-old archeological site near Georgia's highest mountain, Brasstown Bald, that he said "is possibly the site of the fabled city of Yupaha, which Spanish explorer Hernando de Soto failed to find in 1540." > This might all be fairly arcane stuff, except that an archeologist he cited, Mark Williams of the University of Georgia, took exception. In the comments section after Thornton's piece, he > wrote, "I am the archaeologist Mark Williams mentioned in this article. > This is total and complete bunk. There is no evidence of Maya in > Georgia. Move along now." > > Immediately the story exploded. In comments on Examiner, as well as on > Facebook and in emails, users piled on. One woman called Williams > "completely pompous and arrogant." A man wrote he was "completely > disrespectful to the Public at large." Another said he would urge the > state of Georgia to cut off funding for Williams' academic department at the university. > > All of this left Thornton, who writes often about the Maya for Examiner.com, "dumfounded."
        > > "I actually was giving Williams a plug," he said in an interview with > ABC News. "I've got a regular readership, but this thing just went > viral." > > Thornton, who said he is Georgia Creek Indian by birth, volunteered that doing research about Mesoamerican culture in the U.S. has been a > difficult way to make a living. For nine months before the Examiner > hired him, he said he was so poor he had to live out of a tent. He said he now makes money by writing online and lecturing. > > Some of his conclusions about the Mayan connection to the southern U.S., he said, are based on oral history. There are > place names in Georgia and North Carolina, he said, that are very > similar to Mayan words. And the ruins near Brasstown Bald, he said, > include mounds and irrigation terraces similar to those found at Mayan > settlements in Central America. > > Williams, the doubting archeologist, had many online defenders. "While > there are many, many compelling parallels between Central American and > North American indigenous mythologies," wrote one, "that does not mean > there was direct evidence that the post-Classic Period Collapse Maya > emigrated all the way to Georgia." > Williams stood his ground against Thornton's suggestion that Brasstown > Bald has any Mayan roots. "The sites are certainly those of Native > Americans of prehistoric Georgia," he wrote in an email. "Wild theories > are not new, but the web simply spreads them faster than ever." >


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