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ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS were in what is now Europe

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  • Prophecykeepers Foundation
    As far as the Cactus Hill and the Solutreans are concerned, even more convincing to me is the traditional Chickamauga assertion that ALL Cherokee clans
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 13, 2012
      As far as the Cactus Hill and the Solutreans are concerned, even more convincing to me is the traditional Chickamauga assertion that ALL Cherokee clans descended from Bear Clan... and that Clan did indeed originate in what is now Europe.

      The skeletal evidence is also convincing.

      see http://www.chickamauga-cherokee.com/origins.html

      The Powhatan were Bear Clan, but it came down through the male line.


      ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS

      also see THE CHEROKEE/PHOENICIAN X-FILES

      see also Cherokee travel to Europe to view artifacts (off site)
      see also The Chickamauga Cherokees of Southern Kentucky and Northern Tennessee


      The Cherokees did NOT originate in North America, are different from the Muskogean Creeks and others


      What Our Historical Chiefs Have Said
      According to Chief Attakullakulla's ceremonial speech to the Cherokee Nation in 1750, we traveled here from "the rising sun" before the time of the stone age man.

      What Anthropologists Say Today

      The Cherokee migrated back and forth from Mexico twice, making the Ozark plateau our home the second time, about 800-1500 years ago. This fact has been proven scientifically by Dr. Tim Jones (a Cherokee descendant) of the University of Arizona -- who holds doctorate degrees in BOTH archeology AND anthropology.

       
      What Anthropologists said in 1949
      Cherokees skulls are NOT like those of other American Indians, as is shown from Anthropological evidence gathered in Archeological sites.
      From a newspaper article titled For Palefaces, by Walter Carroll, Durham Morning Herald, December 11, 1949,
      "Dr. Kelly explained that his initial concern with Cherokee Origins occurred when he came to the Cherokee reservation in 1929 as a fellow of the National Research Council. He had traveled from Harvard to make a racial study of the present tribes, principally their head forms, which are 'dolicephalic,' (Ancient European, like Hitler called "Aryan" and like many of the Basque Indigenous people of  the mountains of Spain possessed anciently) in contrast he said, with more southeastern tribes, who were prevailingly 'round-headed.' "
      Long-headed  or dolicephalic (on the left) and round-headed or brachycephalic (on the right) types of Amerindian: both were present in East Tennessee, the former distributed in Canada and northward, the latter in southeastern states. Many of these closely resemble the maritime Neolithic people of Mugem, Portugal, who frequented coasts and rivers, used the bone harpoon, and had domesticated the dog. Photo Walter Eitel.]

      "'Speculations about the origins of the Cherokee' Dr. Kelly said, 'has agitated the minds of anthropologists for fifty years or more, beginning with James Mooney, who made investigations on Cherokee myths and traditions at the turn of the century.'"
      "'Anthropologists', Dr. Kelly told the people gathered at the feast, 'have always been intrigued by the ethnic picture of the Cherokee, holding the great central massif of the Southern Appalachian Mountains, a mountain people whose culture always reflected adaptation to uplands, surrounded by tribes of different linguistic and cultural backgrounds. To the south and west, since earliest recorded history (the reports of the expedition of Hernando DeSoto and other 16th century Spanish explorers) were the various tribes belonging to the great Muskogean-speaking family. On the north were the Algonquins and Iroquoian (editors relatives, and toward the Carolina coast was the conclave of Siouan-speaking tribes, whose presence as detached Siouan tribes in the southeast is almost as big a mystery as the Cherokees.'"

      "Dr Kelly explained that archaeologically the picture of the Cherokee origin remains a mystery despite a great amount of theorizations. This is true, he said, in spite of the extensive archeological work done in the southeast in the last 20 years.Work of the Tennessee Department of Anthropology, Dr. Kelly stated, has indicated that the Overhills Cherokees were culturally divergent from the parent body of the older Cherokee settlements in the highland sections of North Carolina and South Carolina."
      "Dr. Kelly was high in his praise of the Cherokee people. He described them as a brave, wise, and intelligent group, but added that they had always been "Something like the Irish" in that they could not pass up a good fight when they saw one."

      What Our Cherokee Historians Have Said

      Budd Gritts was a prominent conservative Baptist minister, author of the first Keetoowah Constitution and one of the reorganizers of the Original Keetoowah Society in 1858.
      The Cherokee Nation lands were allotted at the turn of the 20th century, and its government was terminated by Congress in 1906... illegally as it turns out...
      Levi B. Gritts was the ONLY man ever recognized by all Cherokee Nation factions to be acceptable as their Chief back in the mid 1920s.
      Budd's relative Levi B. Gritts taught that the Cherokee came from an island off the coast of South America that sank after the elders misused "white fire." This is too close to the story of the destruction of Atlantis to be ignored except by the most inveterate cynics among us.
      Levi B. Gritts was a very honorable person and remembered as a very wise man, and later became historian for the Cherokee Nation after Harry Truman illegally appointed W.W. Keeler as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, an action which was later overturned in Ground vs. Keeler, and the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the governments of a "5 civilized tribes" to hold elections and set up national governments.


      Old Traditions Held By Some Cherokee
      Some Cherokee holy people taught that we came from what is known today as "Atlantis," from a Medicine Clan called the Assaga (pronounced Ah-sah-gah). These people sent out colonies to preserve the Ageless Wisdom. One group of Assaga went into the Great Smokey Mountains where they later combined with other wanderers to become the Cherokees. Another group settled in what became "New England" and combined with an exiled Cherokee clan to become the Oneida tribe, and another went much further North into what became Nova Scotia to become known as Naskapi.
       back




       
      Prophecykeepers Foundation is a 501(c)3 Public Foundation and a Congressional District Program at http://www.Prophecykeepers.com. The White Roots of Peace Council was founded by the late 6 Nations Peacemaker Mad Bear Anderson, Sachem of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. We tell the unpopular truths of prophecy that others are afraid to tell... and cannot profit from.

      From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:53 PM
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] DNA and projectile point information

       
      Larry,

      Isn't there more recent evidence casting doubt on the DNA finds and connection to Europe of the Solutrian period?  I think it is very probable that people followed the ice and islands that were the grand banks off New England, to this continent, from Europe.  I also think Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had changed his mind about points he was finding at Spruce Hill and other sites on the East coast that support the DNA evidence. Watch the old movies of Eskimos riding kayaks in waves.  One such Innuit was found hundred of miles out in the Ocean by an English Ship and was brought to England where he learned English while staying at a monastery.  The journey across the ocean was possible following seals, whales, or sea birds.  Getting blown out to sea may have been a boost to some ancient travelers.  

      I also read a report this Fall that dredge spoil along the beaches from work done after hurricane damage was producing stone projectile points made in the image of the Solutrians and did not resemble points made in Siberian style.   

      Thanks for sharing this information and the sources.  I hope others will share what they have find on line with this group.

      Ted Sojka

      PS   A site that is updated daily on archeology sent me by JQ Jacobs is

      http://www.archaeologica.org/NewsPage.htm
      ...................................................................................................
      On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Larry Hancock wrote:

      In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans. This group, called "X," is present in three percent of living Native Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. (ibid p 62)
      In a later book, Little et al state that the percent of individuals among the Iroquois with haplogroup X was a striking "nearly 25%".
      Not long after [1997], studies were published that had performed mtDNA analysis on the remains of individuals who had been buried in mounds in north central America. Sometime thereafter many studies reported on the testing of ancient remains recovered from burials from other parts of the United States. As with the living Native Americans haplogroup X showed up - in about 4 percent of the remains. But in the Northeast, in the traditional lands of the Iroquois, it was in nearly 25 percent of some tribes as well as in ancient remains. Then haplogroup X was found in several individuals who had died over 8000 years ago in Florida. All these remains were so old that the implications were crystal clear: haplogroup X had to have entered America thousands of years before historical times. (Ancient South America, Little et al, pub 2002, p 50)
      This same book published by these authors added the significant new item:
      In a 2001 study haplogroup X was identified in ancient remains (6,000-8,000 years old) found in several cemeteries in the traditional area occupied by the Basque - The Pyrenees Mountains of France and Spain. (Ancient South America, by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken, Lora Little published 2002, p 50.)




    • bigalemc2
      I only got a tiny bit into the article when I went to the Ancient Cherokee Origins site and found a pretty glaring error - which kind of thing always argues
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 14, 2012
        I only got a tiny bit into the article when I went to the Ancient
        Cherokee Origins site and found a pretty glaring error - which kind of
        thing always argues that the writer didn't know what he was talking
        about. He talks about the Cherokee "dolicephalic" skulls.

        There is no such thing as a "dolicephalic" skull. The proper term is
        "dolichocephalic." A Google search for dolicephalic only turns up a
        handful of places where people used the wrong term.

        It is not exactly a confidence builder...

        I will continue reading, but wanted to point that out. The rest of the
        article may be better informed. It does not help (right at the
        beginning) that the author is talking about 1929 and a time when science
        was - literally and formally - involved with such widespread ideas as
        eugenics and classing people according to the size and shape of their
        skulls. It was a time when northern Europeans were looked at as the
        human ideal. Thea rticle starts out with a Cherokee researcher in 1929
        trying to tie the Cherokee with Europeans. While that may at some
        pioint be shown to be true, in 1929 there was every reason to point out
        dissimilarities between Cherokee and other Indian tribes so as to say,
        "We aren't mere savages like the rest of the Indians. We are from the
        higher class of humans, like you Europeans."

        ...back to the article. . .

        Steve Garcia


        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers
        Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote:
        >
        > As far as the Cactus Hill and the Solutreans are concerned, even more
        convincing to me is the traditional Chickamauga assertion that ALL
        Cherokee clans descended from Bear Clan... and that Clan did indeed
        originate in what is now Europe.
        >
        > The skeletal evidence is also convincing.
        >
        > see http://www.chickamauga-cherokee.com/origins.html
        >
        > The Powhatan were Bear Clan, but it came down through the male line.
        >
        >
        >
        > ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS
        > also see THE CHEROKEE/PHOENICIAN X-FILES
        >
        > see also Cherokee travel to Europe to view artifacts (off site)
        >
        > see also The Chickamauga Cherokees of Southern Kentucky and Northern
        Tennessee
        >
        >
        >
        > The Cherokees did NOT originate in North America, are different from
        the Muskogean Creeks and others
        >
        >
        > What Our Historical Chiefs Have Said
        > According to Chief Attakullakulla's ceremonial speech to the Cherokee
        Nation in 1750, we traveled here from "the rising sun" before the time
        of the stone age man.
        >
        > What Anthropologists Say Today
        >
        >
        > The Cherokee migrated back and forth from Mexico twice, making the
        Ozark plateau our home the second time, about 800-1500 years ago. This
        fact has been proven scientifically by Dr. Tim Jones (a Cherokee
        descendant) of the University of Arizona -- who holds doctorate degrees
        in BOTH archeology AND anthropology.
        >
        > Â
        > What Anthropologists said in 1949
        > Cherokees skulls are NOT like those of other American Indians, as is
        shown from Anthropological evidence gathered in Archeological sites.
        > From a newspaper article titled For Palefaces, by Walter Carroll,
        Durham Morning Herald, December 11, 1949,
        > "Dr. Kelly explained that his initial concern with Cherokee Origins
        occurred when he came to the Cherokee reservation in 1929 as a fellow of
        the National Research Council. He had traveled from Harvard to make a
        racial study of the present tribes, principally their head forms, which
        are 'dolicephalic,' (Ancient European, like Hitler called "Aryan" and
        like many of the Basque Indigenous people of  the mountains of
        Spain possessed anciently) in contrast he said, with more
        southeastern tribes, who were prevailingly 'round-headed.' "
        >
        >
        > Long-headed  or dolicephalic (on the left) and round-headed or
        brachycephalic (on the right) types of Amerindian: both were present in
        East Tennessee, the former distributed in Canada and northward, the
        latter in southeastern states. Many of these closely resemble the
        maritime Neolithic people of Mugem, Portugal, who frequented coasts and
        rivers, used the bone harpoon, and had domesticated the dog. Photo
        Walter Eitel.]
        >
        > "'Speculations about the origins of the Cherokee' Dr. Kelly said, 'has
        agitated
        > the minds of anthropologists for fifty years or more, beginning with
        James
        > Mooney, who made investigations on Cherokee myths and traditions at
        the turn
        > of the century.'"
        > "'Anthropologists', Dr. Kelly told the people gathered at the feast,
        'have always been intrigued by the ethnic picture of the Cherokee,
        holding the great central massif of the Southern Appalachian Mountains,
        a mountain people whose culture always reflected adaptation to uplands,
        surrounded by tribes of different linguistic and cultural backgrounds.
        To the south and west, since earliest recorded history (the reports of
        the expedition of Hernando DeSoto and other 16th century Spanish
        explorers) were the various tribes belonging to the great
        Muskogean-speaking family. On the north were the Algonquins and
        Iroquoian (editors relatives, and toward the Carolina coast was the
        conclave of Siouan-speaking tribes, whose presence as detached Siouan
        tribes in the southeast is almost as big a mystery as the Cherokees.'"
        >
        > "Dr Kelly explained that archaeologically the picture of the Cherokee
        origin
        > remains a mystery despite a great amount of theorizations. This is
        true,
        > he said, in spite of the extensive archeological work done in the
        southeast
        > in the last 20 years.Work of the Tennessee Department of
        Anthropology, Dr.
        > Kelly stated, has indicated that the Overhills Cherokees were
        culturally
        > divergent from the parent body of the older Cherokee settlements in
        the highland
        > sections of North Carolina and South Carolina."
        > "Dr. Kelly was high in his praise of the Cherokee people. He described
        them as a brave, wise, and intelligent group, but added that they had
        always been "Something like the Irish" in that they could not pass up a
        good fight when they saw one."
        >
        >
        > What Our Cherokee Historians Have Said
        >
        > Budd Gritts was a prominent conservative Baptist minister, author of
        the
        > first Keetoowah Constitution and one of the reorganizers of the
        Original
        > Keetoowah Society in 1858.
        > The Cherokee Nation lands were allotted at the turn of the 20th
        century, and its government was terminated by Congress in 1906...
        illegally as it turns out...
        > Levi B. Gritts was the ONLY man ever recognized by all Cherokee Nation
        factions to be acceptable as their Chief back in the mid 1920s.
        > Budd's relative Levi B. Gritts taught that the Cherokee came from
        an island off the coast of South America that sank after the elders
        misused "white fire." This is too close to the story of the destruction
        of Atlantis to be ignored except by the most inveterate cynics among us.
        > Levi B. Gritts was a very honorable person and remembered as a very
        wise man, and later became historian for the Cherokee Nation after Harry
        Truman illegally appointed W.W. Keeler as Principal Chief of the
        Cherokee Nation, an action which was later overturned in Ground vs.
        Keeler, and the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the governments of a "5
        civilized tribes" to hold elections and set up national governments.
        >
        >
        > Old Traditions Held By Some Cherokee
        > Some Cherokee holy people taught that we came from what is known
        today as "Atlantis," from a Medicine Clan called the Assaga
        (pronounced Ah-sah-gah). These people sent out colonies to preserve the
        Ageless Wisdom. One group of Assaga went into the Great Smokey Mountains
        where they later combined with other wanderers to become the Cherokees.
        Another group settled in what became "New England" and combined with an
        exiled Cherokee clan to become the Oneida tribe, and another went much
        further North into what became Nova Scotia to become known as Naskapi.
        >
        > Â back
        >
        >
        >
        > Â
        >
        > Prophecykeepers Foundation is a 501(c)3 Public Foundation and a
        Congressional District Program at http://www.Prophecykeepers.com The
        White Roots of Peace Council was founded by the late 6 Nations
        Peacemaker Mad Bear Anderson, Sachem of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.
        We tell the unpopular truths of prophecy that others are afraid to
        tell... and cannot profit from.
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@...
        > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:53 PM
        > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] DNA and projectile point
        information
        >
        >
        > Â
        > Larry,
        >
        > Isn't there more recent evidence casting doubt on the DNA finds and
        connection to Europe of the Solutrian period? Â I think it is very
        probable that people followed the ice and islands that were the grand
        banks off New England, to this continent, from Europe. Â I also think
        Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had changed his mind about points he
        was finding at Spruce Hill and other sites on the East coast that
        support the DNA evidence. Watch the old movies of Eskimos riding kayaks
        in waves. Â One such Innuit was found hundred of miles out in the
        Ocean by an English Ship and was brought to England where he learned
        English while staying at a monastery. Â The journey across the ocean
        was possible following seals, whales, or sea birds. Â Getting blown
        out to sea may have been a boost to some ancient travelers. Â
        >
        > I also read a report this Fall that dredge spoil along the beaches
        from work done after hurricane damage was producing stone projectile
        points made in the image of the Solutrians and did not resemble points
        made in Siberian style. Â Â
        >
        > Thanks for sharing this information and the sources. Â I hope
        others will share what they have find on line with this group.
        >
        > Ted Sojka
        >
        > PS Â A site that is updated daily on archeology sent me by JQ
        Jacobs is
        >
        > http://www.archaeologica.org/NewsPage.htm
        >
        ........................................................................\
        ...........................
        >
        > On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Larry Hancock wrote:
        >
        > In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans.
        This group, called "X," is present in three percent of living Native
        Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only
        in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the
        population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been
        found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. (ibid p
        62)
        > >In a later book, Little et al state that the percent of individuals
        among the Iroquois with haplogroup X was a striking "nearly 25%".
        > >Not long after [1997], studies were published that had performed
        mtDNA analysis on the remains of individuals who had been buried in
        mounds in north central America. Sometime thereafter many studies
        reported on the testing of ancient remains recovered from burials from
        other parts of the United States. As with the living Native Americans
        haplogroup X showed up - in about 4 percent of the remains. But in the
        Northeast, in the traditional lands of the Iroquois, it was in nearly 25
        percent of some tribes as well as in ancient remains. Then haplogroup X
        was found in several individuals who had died over 8000 years ago in
        Florida. All these remains were so old that the implications were
        crystal clear: haplogroup X had to have entered America thousands of
        years before historical times. (Ancient South America, Little et al, pub
        2002, p 50)
        > >This same book published by these authors added the significant new
        item:
        > >In a 2001 study haplogroup X was identified in ancient remains
        (6,000-8,000 years old) found in several cemeteries in the traditional
        area occupied by the Basque - The Pyrenees Mountains of France and
        Spain. (Ancient South America, by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken,
        Lora Little published 2002, p 50.)
        > >
        >
      • Prophecykeepers Foundation
        Thanks for the spelling heads up. Most Cherokees today have NO idea whatsoever of their origins. Many just don t want to know. The Keetoowah Society Elders
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 15, 2012
          Thanks for the spelling heads up.

          Most Cherokees today have NO idea whatsoever of their origins. Many just don't want to know.

          The Keetoowah Society Elders hold the same thing as I said... that we migrated in BOATS across the Eastern Ocean during stone age: that Chief of the Cherokee Nation addressed the nation in 1750 and reminded them that they migrated to North America from across the eastern ocean during the stone age.

          The Keetoowah Origin Story from "Burning Phoenix" Allogan Slagle says more or less the same thing.

          see http://www.keetoowahsociety.org/BurningPhoenix.htm

          see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Keetoowah_Society

          from http://cherokeediscovery.com/history.html

          History of the
          Nacion Cherokee de Mexico
          (Cherokee Nation of Mexico)

          Chief Charles Jahtlohi Rogers

          “When the one Creator of all things,
          U-nay-kla-nah-hi, made the first Cherokees,
          the stars began to twinkle with approval;
          thus it is our responsibility to live up to these heavenly expectations.”
          Chief Jahtlohi Rogers
          When you learn that Cherokee history is a multi-colored rope,
          woven by our ancestors from the beginning of time. Their weaving was strong and good enough to get us here, but not without many, many of the strands breaking. Then during thunderstorms, you will be able to hear the old ones chant “Be warned, Cherokee! Weave stronger, Cherokee! Be warned”
          Chief Jahtlohi Rogers
          A Mayan carving of people who had come from The East and who had but one God.(Photo - Right)
          A Mayan carving of people who had come from The East and who had but one God.
          Osiyo. Our grandfathers’ most ancient stories tell us that we Cherokees were in exodus and walked a great distance when we came to the ocean. With faith we built rafts and crossed the ocean, coming from the East to the West and established a life for ourselves in this new land of the Americas. About 1000 B.C., a people from a rubber tree forest invaded Eastern Mexico. The indigenous Mexicans called these newcomers the Olmec. They were a people completely obsessed with magic; we avoided them by traveling to the North.
          Many Mayan carvings suggest racial mixtures.(Photo - Left)
          Many Mayan carvings suggest racial mixtures.
          Our Cherokee traditional stories interlock and agree with several of the ancient pre-Columbian Mayan and Mexican legends which tell of a people arriving from the East who believed in a single, benevolent, providing God. Some of these travelers from the East had different coloration of eyes and skin shade; some had beards. The Maya and other early Mexicans drew pictures of these people, who wore hats and turbans not unlike those the Cherokee have always worn and wear today. The Mexican legends said that these people would return in time.
          Mayan carving showing man in a turban & beard with a non-Mayan nose

          (Photo - Right)
          Mayan carving showing man in a turban & beard with a non-Mayan nose.
          It is not known to this day which people or combination of peoples built the great pyramid city of the Valley of Mexico, but the Cherokees were living in Mexico at that time, as were the Tlamatinimi (which means “wise men” in the ancient Mexican language). They were a pre-Columbian group of intellectuals, engineers, and astronomers who shared a common belief or connection with the Cherokee in that their religion also had only one God who was merciful, who had created all things, and who would provide what you needed, not necessarily what you wished. This ancient Mexican society, the Tlamatinimi, was supremely rational and civilized, arguably even more civilized than Greeks or Romans. Their society existed within different Mexican civilizations and were unfazed by the threat of a gallery of monster gods used to motivate and control the populace. In 1450 A.D. they were centered at Texcoco.
          Mayan carving showing Turban with blond mustache & freckled cheekbones supporting Mayan legends of a people who came from the East who worshipped but one God.(Photo - Left)
          Mayan carving showing Turban with blond mustache & freckled cheekbones supporting Mayan legends of a people who came from the East who worshipped but one God.
          Cherokee migration legend tells of our exodus north, three to four thousand years ago, past the river of the ferocious ones, which we believe to be the Rio Grande River where the cannibalistic Karankawas lived. In the mid-1800’s, Stephen F. Austin saw this tribe in person and described them as very handsome and intimidating, with men averaging 7 ft. in height and women 6 ft.
          A bearded man in a cloth cap distinguishes this Mayan carving


          (Photo - Right)
          A bearded man in a cloth cap distinguishes this Mayan carving.
          The Cherokee pushed on to the big waters of the Mississippi, then on to the headwaters of the Ohio, where they built walled cities and huge mounds for burial. The Delaware came from the west and, with assistance from the Iroquois federation, fought to remove the Cherokee, for the time period of 7 chiefs, or approximately 200 years, before the Cherokee went East to the mountains and coast. The exodus was pressured by war to continue south with the Cherokees arriving in the Georgia area in approximately 800 to 1000 A.D.
          Cherokee Chief John Jolly as depicted by George Catlin(Photo - Left)
          Cherokee Chief John Jolly as depicted by George Catlin
          The first European or Spaniard to visit the Cherokee in the Georgia area was the explorer conquistador DeSoto in 1540. His official writings astonishingly state that many of the Cherokee were light skinned while, of course, many were not. De Soto noted “some with light brown and blond hair equal in coloration to some of my Spanish soldiers”. Of the hundred or more indigenous tribes visited by this Spanish explorer, no other tribe would be noted for the great mystery of being racially mixed like the Cherokee. According to oral tradition and existing written history, we know we have been mixed for several thousand years. Cherokee Chief Oconostota, whose forefathers had all been chiefs, had himself been chief for 60 years when, in 1782, he told Col. Sevier about the Cherokee history of the Welch people who had come in approximately 1100. The Chiefs story also agrees with the Welsh legend of Prince Maddox, who was said to have come with ten shiploads of white people and settled on the Hiawasse River. The Cherokee fought with them, took prisoners, and negotiated the retreat of the Welsh, who joined the Mandan tribe on Mobile Bay. (This is stated in an existing document dated 1808 which Col. Sevier sent to Major Stoddard, who was trying to locate these racially mixed Indians.)
          The natural beauty of Coahuila has always attracted Native Americans.(Photo - Right)
          The natural beauty of Coahuila has always attracted Native Americans.
          The first Cherokees to return to Mexico went in 1720 to the mountains of Coahuila.
          The great Cherokee educator and social activist Sequoyah urged Cherokees to come and live in freedom and dignity in Coahuila.(Photo - Left)
          The great Cherokee educator and social activist Sequoyah urged Cherokees to come and live in freedom and dignity in Coahuila.
          In 1822, a newly independent Republic of Mexico granted the Cherokees freedom and immigration rights to the eastern part of the Mexican province of Texas.
          One of the last remaining houses of the once great Haciendo Patiño where Sequoyah was befriended after escaping arrest.Photo - Right)
          One of the last remaining houses of the once great Haciendo Patiño where Sequoyah was befriended after escaping arrest.
          Seventeen years later, in 1839, the United States began the anti-indigenous eastern ethnic removal, a hardship that killed thousands, of the Cherokees from their homelands of a thousand years in Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina to reservations in Oklahoma. This ethnic removal was only exceeded in injustice by the same anti-indigenous elements of the Republic of Texas government who coveted the Cherokee’s 600,000 acres and began a western ethnic removal of over 1000 Cherokee men, women and children. The Cherokees were led by Chief Bowles, a white skinned, freckled man with dark red hair; a powerfully built warrior with a fair and honest heart, he spoke little English. He and over 100 of his Cherokee brothers were killed in defense of their property that had been granted them by Mexico under the same legal process that Austin’s Anglo settlers had received before the Texas Revolution. Cherokee families who had been peacefully farming their land for almost two decades were now, in 1839, homeless and country-less, many orphaned or widowed.
          An 1839 painting showing Mexican Cherokees at leisure.(Photo - Left)
          An 1839 painting showing Mexican Cherokees at leisure.
          Before this ethnic cleansing, Sam Houston asked the Attorney General of the Republic of Texas for and received an opinion that stated that “it would be illegal for the Cherokee land to be taken”. Texas President Mirabeau Lamar ignored this legal opinion from his own government and ordered the ethnic cleansing to begin; Burnett carried it out militarily and he personally received the Cherokee lands, which he sold to the public for a huge profit. Lamar had helped write the Indian Removal Act of 1828 in Georgia before coming to Texas to seek his fortune. He was an admitted Cherokee hater.
          Cherokee Medicine Man Swimmer. A noble profession, a noble Cherokee.(Photo - Right)
          Cherokee Medicine Man Swimmer. A noble profession, a noble Cherokee.
          The surviving Cherokees were arrested and faced with the captivity of the military reservation, but instead resisted and fled to the freedom of the Republic of Mexico. These refugee Cherokees asked the courageous Mexican leaders for help and were granted “amparo” or political amnesty. They were granted permission and settled in the Mexican states of Coahuila, Chihuahua, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas, with the majority choosing to settle in mountainous Coahuila near the historic city of San Fernando now known as Zaragosa.
          Chief John Ross, one of the most famous mixed-blood Cherokee Chiefs, he was 1/8th Cherokee.(Photo - Left)
          Chief John Ross, one of the most famous mixed-blood Cherokee Chiefs, he was 1/8th Cherokee.
          The most famous Cherokee in history to come and live in the freedom of Coahuila, Mexico was Sequoyah. This world famous educator is the only person in human history to develop a written system of syllables, which enabled all Cherokees to be able to write their language proficiently after only two months of study. For this work of genius, the great Sequoyah was featured in every U.S. newspaper and most major world publications.
          Mr. Ridge was very typical of Cherokees with European admixture.(Photo - Right)
          Mr. Ridge was very typical of Cherokees with European admixture.
          He was an U.S. Army veteran known, honored and loved in his time by the red and white man throughout the United States. To this day, U.S. national parks and giant redwood trees bear his name. For his achievements, he was given a house and a yearly monetary pension for the rest of his life in the military-controlled Indian territory, yet he loved and valued freedom so much that he urged all Cherokees to live as a free people in Coahuila, Mexico. Indeed, earlier (in 1836), Chief John Ross had been denied permission by the U.S. Secretary of War to be allowed to sell the Cherokee lands and move the entire tribe to Mexico. Much later, in 1895, the Western Cherokees would consider a vote to move to Mexico to whence Sequoyah had moved in 1842.
          Cherokee Mary Delilah Price, 1880, The great-grandmother of Chief Rogers and many of the Cherokee Nation of Mexico members.(Photo - Left)
          Cherokee Mary Delilah Price, 1880, The great-grandmother of Chief Rogers and many of the Cherokee Nation of Mexico members.
          Immediately upon Sequoyah’s arrival in Mexico, the anti-indigenous elements of the 1842 government of the Republic of Texas who feared Sequoyah’s intellect, celebrity influence, and pro-Native American activist presence in Mexico pressured authorities to dispatch agents that covertly and illegally entered Mexico. Without the process of law and under threat force, they arrested Sequoyah who, even at 73 years of age and suffering from a severe lung infection, managed to “suddenly disappear”, escaping his captors while crossing the Rio Grande River at night. Sequoyah, fighting collapse, persevered and returned to Zaragosa where the kind-hearted Mexican people of that city and the Patinos-Rodriguez-Salinas families of a nearby hacienda, who had all grown to love the venerable Sequoyah, bravely and without consideration for their own personal safety hid him in a secret cave. Sequoyah, who had been very ill for some time, became exhausted from this struggle and flight from captivity to his freedom. The Great Sequoyah died peacefully, a free person, among some of his Cherokee family and many Mexican friends, but not before prophesying that a Cherokee child would someday come, find his grave, and bring his spirit of brotherhood back to the Cherokee and all other people of good heart.
          The Cherokee Indian with the knives is at Fort Sill in 1904 when Geronimo was a prisoner there. He is Joe Howard Layton, grandfather of Chief Rogers, son of Mary Price.(Photo - Right)
          The Cherokee Indian with the knives is at Fort Sill in 1904 when Geronimo was a prisoner there. He is Joe Howard Layton, grandfather of Chief Rogers, son of Mary Price.
          According to the legends of both Western Cherokee and Mexican Cherokee, Sequoyah believed with all of his being that Mexico was the ancient land in which our ancestors felt there was a source of knowledge and power. Like a migratory bird, he was determined to return to freedom, even if he perished in this quest.
          Charles Ahdoelayhoeski Prophecy Rogers in the darkness of the tomb of Sequoyah points to markings he found(Photo - Left)
          Charles Ahdoelayhoeski Prophecy Rogers in the darkness of the tomb of Sequoyah points to markings he found.
          After Sequoyah’s passing, seventy Cherokee warriors fought during the 1842 conflicts in an attempt to reclaim their land. Seventeen Cherokee died.
          Every year the Cherokee Nation of Mexico has the honor of starting the Cabalgata - a trail ride of 8,000 horses.(Photo - Right)
          Every year the Cherokee Nation of Mexico has the honor of starting the Cabalgata - a trail ride of 8,000 horses.
          On August 4,2001, President Vincente Fox historically signed Mexican constitutional amendments to reflect the legal presence and protected cultural status of all of the indigenous people of Mexico. This profound act of respect for indigenous cultures by the republic of Mexico is unique among all countries of the world.
          Governor receives a beaded bolo symbolizing the respect that we of the Cherokee Nation of Mexico have for him, the state of Coahuila and all Mexican families.(Photo - Left)
          Governor receives a beaded bolo symbolizing the respect that we of the Cherokee Nation of Mexico have for him, the state of Coahuila and all Mexican families.
          On August 22,2001, the Cherokee nation and tribe of Mexico petitioned Coahuila Governor Enrique Martinez y Martinez to confirm, through formal recognition, the strong continuing bond that exists between the Cherokees and the Mexicans.
          Chief Rogers and Clay Spirit Walker Garrett bring the noble 1910 Mexican Revolution flag from a collection in Chicago back to its home in Mexico as a gift. It was received by the Governor on behalf  of all Mexico.(Photo - Right)
          Chief Rogers and Clay Spirit Walker Garrett bring the noble 1910 Mexican Revolution flag from a collection in Chicago back to its home in Mexico as a gift. It was received by the Governor on behalf of all Mexico.
          Governor Martinez y Martinez acted without hesitation to extend the hand of continuing friendship and ancient brotherhood with formal recognition of the Cherokee, in the same courageous Mexican spirit as the Governor of Coahuila in 1839 and the President of Mexico in 1822.
          Cherokees come in many colors and we feel that this is one of our strengths which allows us to understand and respect all humans as brothers.
          Wado (Thank you.)
          Charles L Jahtlohi (Kingfisher) Rogers M.D.
          Traditional Chief (Ugu)

          “Spotted Owl fell asleep under a dancing star.
          this was the night he learned to dream.
          His soul became a strong white bird,
          his mind a snapping terrapin,
          his body as strong as a bear,
          his medicine important and peaceful”
          Marijo Moore - Cherokee












          From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:57 PM
          Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS were in what is now Europe

           
          I only got a tiny bit into the article when I went to the Ancient
          Cherokee Origins site and found a pretty glaring error - which kind of
          thing always argues that the writer didn't know what he was talking
          about. He talks about the Cherokee "dolicephalic" skulls.

          There is no such thing as a "dolicephalic" skull. The proper term is
          "dolichocephalic." A Google search for dolicephalic only turns up a
          handful of places where people used the wrong term.

          It is not exactly a confidence builder...

          I will continue reading, but wanted to point that out. The rest of the
          article may be better informed. It does not help (right at the
          beginning) that the author is talking about 1929 and a time when science
          was - literally and formally - involved with such widespread ideas as
          eugenics and classing people according to the size and shape of their
          skulls. It was a time when northern Europeans were looked at as the
          human ideal. Thea rticle starts out with a Cherokee researcher in 1929
          trying to tie the Cherokee with Europeans. While that may at some
          pioint be shown to be true, in 1929 there was every reason to point out
          dissimilarities between Cherokee and other Indian tribes so as to say,
          "We aren't mere savages like the rest of the Indians. We are from the
          higher class of humans, like you Europeans."

          ...back to the article. . .

          Steve Garcia

          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers
          Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote:
          >
          > As far as the Cactus Hill and the Solutreans are concerned, even more
          convincing to me is the traditional Chickamauga assertion that ALL
          Cherokee clans descended from Bear Clan... and that Clan did indeed
          originate in what is now Europe.
          >
          > The skeletal evidence is also convincing.
          >
          > see http://www.chickamauga-cherokee.com/origins.html
          >
          > The Powhatan were Bear Clan, but it came down through the male line.
          >
          >
          >
          > ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS
          > also see THE CHEROKEE/PHOENICIAN X-FILES
          >
          > see also Cherokee travel to Europe to view artifacts (off site)
          >
          > see also The Chickamauga Cherokees of Southern Kentucky and Northern
          Tennessee
          >
          >
          >
          > The Cherokees did NOT originate in North America, are different from
          the Muskogean Creeks and others
          >
          >
          > What Our Historical Chiefs Have Said
          > According to Chief Attakullakulla's ceremonial speech to the Cherokee
          Nation in 1750, we traveled here from "the rising sun" before the time
          of the stone age man.
          >
          > What Anthropologists Say Today
          >
          >
          > The Cherokee migrated back and forth from Mexico twice, making the
          Ozark plateau our home the second time, about 800-1500 years ago. This
          fact has been proven scientifically by Dr. Tim Jones (a Cherokee
          descendant) of the University of Arizona -- who holds doctorate degrees
          in BOTH archeology AND anthropology.
          >
          > Â
          > What Anthropologists said in 1949
          > Cherokees skulls are NOT like those of other American Indians, as is
          shown from Anthropological evidence gathered in Archeological sites.
          > From a newspaper article titled For Palefaces, by Walter Carroll,
          Durham Morning Herald, December 11, 1949,
          > "Dr. Kelly explained that his initial concern with Cherokee Origins
          occurred when he came to the Cherokee reservation in 1929 as a fellow of
          the National Research Council. He had traveled from Harvard to make a
          racial study of the present tribes, principally their head forms, which
          are 'dolicephalic,' (Ancient European, like Hitler called "Aryan" and
          like many of the Basque Indigenous people of  the mountains of
          Spain possessed anciently) in contrast he said, with more
          southeastern tribes, who were prevailingly 'round-headed.' "
          >
          >
          > Long-headed  or dolicephalic (on the left) and round-headed or
          brachycephalic (on the right) types of Amerindian: both were present in
          East Tennessee, the former distributed in Canada and northward, the
          latter in southeastern states. Many of these closely resemble the
          maritime Neolithic people of Mugem, Portugal, who frequented coasts and
          rivers, used the bone harpoon, and had domesticated the dog. Photo
          Walter Eitel.]
          >
          > "'Speculations about the origins of the Cherokee' Dr. Kelly said, 'has
          agitated
          > the minds of anthropologists for fifty years or more, beginning with
          James
          > Mooney, who made investigations on Cherokee myths and traditions at
          the turn
          > of the century.'"
          > "'Anthropologists', Dr. Kelly told the people gathered at the feast,
          'have always been intrigued by the ethnic picture of the Cherokee,
          holding the great central massif of the Southern Appalachian Mountains,
          a mountain people whose culture always reflected adaptation to uplands,
          surrounded by tribes of different linguistic and cultural backgrounds.
          To the south and west, since earliest recorded history (the reports of
          the expedition of Hernando DeSoto and other 16th century Spanish
          explorers) were the various tribes belonging to the great
          Muskogean-speaking family. On the north were the Algonquins and
          Iroquoian (editors relatives, and toward the Carolina coast was the
          conclave of Siouan-speaking tribes, whose presence as detached Siouan
          tribes in the southeast is almost as big a mystery as the Cherokees.'"
          >
          > "Dr Kelly explained that archaeologically the picture of the Cherokee
          origin
          > remains a mystery despite a great amount of theorizations. This is
          true,
          > he said, in spite of the extensive archeological work done in the
          southeast
          > in the last 20 years.Work of the Tennessee Department of
          Anthropology, Dr.
          > Kelly stated, has indicated that the Overhills Cherokees were
          culturally
          > divergent from the parent body of the older Cherokee settlements in
          the highland
          > sections of North Carolina and South Carolina."
          > "Dr. Kelly was high in his praise of the Cherokee people. He described
          them as a brave, wise, and intelligent group, but added that they had
          always been "Something like the Irish" in that they could not pass up a
          good fight when they saw one."
          >
          >
          > What Our Cherokee Historians Have Said
          >
          > Budd Gritts was a prominent conservative Baptist minister, author of
          the
          > first Keetoowah Constitution and one of the reorganizers of the
          Original
          > Keetoowah Society in 1858.
          > The Cherokee Nation lands were allotted at the turn of the 20th
          century, and its government was terminated by Congress in 1906...
          illegally as it turns out...
          > Levi B. Gritts was the ONLY man ever recognized by all Cherokee Nation
          factions to be acceptable as their Chief back in the mid 1920s.
          > Budd's relative Levi B. Gritts taught that the Cherokee came from
          an island off the coast of South America that sank after the elders
          misused "white fire." This is too close to the story of the destruction
          of Atlantis to be ignored except by the most inveterate cynics among us.
          > Levi B. Gritts was a very honorable person and remembered as a very
          wise man, and later became historian for the Cherokee Nation after Harry
          Truman illegally appointed W.W. Keeler as Principal Chief of the
          Cherokee Nation, an action which was later overturned in Ground vs.
          Keeler, and the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the governments of a "5
          civilized tribes" to hold elections and set up national governments.
          >
          >
          > Old Traditions Held By Some Cherokee
          > Some Cherokee holy people taught that we came from what is known
          today as "Atlantis," from a Medicine Clan called the Assaga
          (pronounced Ah-sah-gah). These people sent out colonies to preserve the
          Ageless Wisdom. One group of Assaga went into the Great Smokey Mountains
          where they later combined with other wanderers to become the Cherokees.
          Another group settled in what became "New England" and combined with an
          exiled Cherokee clan to become the Oneida tribe, and another went much
          further North into what became Nova Scotia to become known as Naskapi.
          >
          > Â back
          >
          >
          >
          > Â
          >
          > Prophecykeepers Foundation is a 501(c)3 Public Foundation and a
          Congressional District Program at http://www.Prophecykeepers.com. The
          White Roots of Peace Council was founded by the late 6 Nations
          Peacemaker Mad Bear Anderson, Sachem of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.
          We tell the unpopular truths of prophecy that others are afraid to
          tell... and cannot profit from.
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@...
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:53 PM
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] DNA and projectile point
          information
          >
          >
          > Â
          > Larry,
          >
          > Isn't there more recent evidence casting doubt on the DNA finds and
          connection to Europe of the Solutrian period? Â I think it is very
          probable that people followed the ice and islands that were the grand
          banks off New England, to this continent, from Europe. Â I also think
          Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had changed his mind about points he
          was finding at Spruce Hill and other sites on the East coast that
          support the DNA evidence. Watch the old movies of Eskimos riding kayaks
          in waves. Â One such Innuit was found hundred of miles out in the
          Ocean by an English Ship and was brought to England where he learned
          English while staying at a monastery. Â The journey across the ocean
          was possible following seals, whales, or sea birds. Â Getting blown
          out to sea may have been a boost to some ancient travelers. Â
          >
          > I also read a report this Fall that dredge spoil along the beaches
          from work done after hurricane damage was producing stone projectile
          points made in the image of the Solutrians and did not resemble points
          made in Siberian style. Â Â
          >
          > Thanks for sharing this information and the sources. Â I hope
          others will share what they have find on line with this group.
          >
          > Ted Sojka
          >
          > PS Â A site that is updated daily on archeology sent me by JQ
          Jacobs is
          >
          > http://www.archaeologica.org/NewsPage.htm
          >
          ........................................................................\
          ...........................
          >
          > On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Larry Hancock wrote:
          >
          > In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans.
          This group, called "X," is present in three percent of living Native
          Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only
          in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the
          population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been
          found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. (ibid p
          62)
          > >In a later book, Little et al state that the percent of individuals
          among the Iroquois with haplogroup X was a striking "nearly 25%".
          > >Not long after [1997], studies were published that had performed
          mtDNA analysis on the remains of individuals who had been buried in
          mounds in north central America. Sometime thereafter many studies
          reported on the testing of ancient remains recovered from burials from
          other parts of the United States. As with the living Native Americans
          haplogroup X showed up - in about 4 percent of the remains. But in the
          Northeast, in the traditional lands of the Iroquois, it was in nearly 25
          percent of some tribes as well as in ancient remains. Then haplogroup X
          was found in several individuals who had died over 8000 years ago in
          Florida. All these remains were so old that the implications were
          crystal clear: haplogroup X had to have entered America thousands of
          years before historical times. (Ancient South America, Little et al, pub
          2002, p 50)
          > >This same book published by these authors added the significant new
          item:
          > >In a 2001 study haplogroup X was identified in ancient remains
          (6,000-8,000 years old) found in several cemeteries in the traditional
          area occupied by the Basque - The Pyrenees Mountains of France and
          Spain. (Ancient South America, by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken,
          Lora Little published 2002, p 50.)
          > >
          >



        • quarefremeruntgentes7@yahoo.com
          Do you have any opinions, pro, or con, on the theories of David Allen Deal. Deal wrote lots about the prehistory of Central and North America. He had a site --
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 15, 2012
            Do you have any opinions, pro, or con, on the theories of David Allen Deal. Deal wrote lots about the prehistory of Central and North America. He had a site -- I think it was called www.noahsark-naxuan.com .

            Jeff
            Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          • Prophecykeepers Foundation
            First I heard of it. Thanks, I will check it out. I have just tried to reconicile the science and the ancient traditions since 1990,and I think I have some of
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 15, 2012
              First I heard of it. Thanks, I will check it out.

              I have just tried to reconicile the science and the ancient traditions since 1990,and I think I have some of it figured out. Joe Sitting Owl likes what I have hypothesized. Cactus Hill was the big breakthrough as far as I am concerned, because it matches up everything.




               
              Prophecykeepers Foundation is a 501(c)3 Public Foundation and a Congressional District Program at http://www.Prophecykeepers.com. The White Roots of Peace Council was founded by the late 6 Nations Peacemaker Mad Bear Anderson, Sachem of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. We tell the unpopular truths of prophecy that others are afraid to tell... and cannot profit from.

              From: "quarefremeruntgentes7@..." <quarefremeruntgentes7@...>
              To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:42 AM
              Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS were in what is now Europe

               
              Do you have any opinions, pro, or con, on the theories of David Allen Deal. Deal wrote lots about the prehistory of Central and North America. He had a site -- I think it was called www.noahsark-naxuan.com .

              Jeff
              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



            • james m clark jr
              From what I recall other than in the Popul Vuh East is made out to be a reference to the east of no general location except in a society where ethnic
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 21, 2012
                From what I recall other than in the Popul Vuh "East" is made out to be a reference to the east of no general location except in a society where ethnic diversity was also a fond memory of if correct.

                I can't say that would even include mainland Europe or Eastern Europe a 1000 yrs ago or to just after the Punic Wars when Attalus king of Pergamum in nut shell handed over Asia Minor to Rome.

                Perhaps Southern Europe or either Thrace. From what I recall the situation in Thrace was a bit different than in Asia Minor. Thrace at some point around 1000 bce likewise had no appointed heir so one was said to be elected by the people. This particular Lord according to some traditions was Odin who some claim was Dan of the tribe of Dan who abode in ships. Some theorize that this is also the Mayan g-d Quetzalcoatl.

                And there is the Spanish or Jewish King Wari of which of the two Spains is still unconfirmed regarding some notes and former interests in ancient history left unchecked I have not persued that paralles chronologically but according to academic terms the periods vary by no more than 250 years or so.

                be well,
                jamey

                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the spelling heads up.
                >
                > Most Cherokees today have NO idea whatsoever of their origins. Many just don't want to know.
                >
                > The Keetoowah Society Elders hold the same thing as I said... that we migrated in BOATS across the Eastern Ocean during stone age: that Chief of the Cherokee Nation addressed the nation in 1750 and reminded them that they migrated to North America from across the eastern ocean during the stone age.
                >
                > The Keetoowah Origin Story from "Burning Phoenix" Allogan Slagle says more or less the same thing.
                >
                > see http://www.keetoowahsociety.org/BurningPhoenix.htm
                >
                > see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Keetoowah_Society
                >
                > from http://cherokeediscovery.com/history.html
                >
                >
                > History of the
                > Nacion Cherokee de Mexico
                > (Cherokee Nation of Mexico)
                >
                > “When the one Creator of all things,
                > U-nay-kla-nah-hi, made the first Cherokees,
                > the stars began to twinkle with approval;
                > thus it is our responsibility to live up to these heavenly expectations.”
                > Chief Jahtlohi Rogers
                > When you learn that Cherokee history is a multi-colored rope,
                > woven by our ancestors from the beginning of time. Their weaving was
                > strong and good enough to get us here, but not without many, many of the
                > strands breaking. Then during thunderstorms, you will be able to hear
                > the old ones chant
                > “Be warned, Cherokee! Weave stronger, Cherokee! Be warned”
                > Chief Jahtlohi Rogers
                > (Photo - Right)
                > A Mayan carving of people who had come from The East and who had but one God.
                > Osiyo. Our grandfathers’ most ancient stories tell us that we Cherokees were in exodus and walked a great distance when we came to the ocean. With faith we built rafts and crossed the ocean, coming from the East to the West and established a life for ourselves in this new land of the Americas. About 1000 B.C., a people from a rubber tree forest invaded Eastern Mexico. The indigenous Mexicans called these newcomers the Olmec. They were a people completely obsessed with magic; we avoided them by traveling to the North.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Many Mayan carvings suggest racial mixtures.
                > Our Cherokee traditional stories interlock and agree with several of the ancient pre-Columbian Mayan and Mexican legends which tell of a people arriving from the East who believed in a single, benevolent, providing God. Some of these travelers from the East had different coloration of eyes and skin shade; some had beards. The Maya and other early Mexicans drew pictures of these people, who wore hats and turbans not unlike those the Cherokee have always worn and wear today. The Mexican legends said that these people would return in time.
                >
                >
                > (Photo - Right)
                > Mayan carving showing man in a turban & beard with a non-Mayan nose.
                > It is not known to this day which people or combination of peoples built the great pyramid city of the Valley of Mexico, but the Cherokees were living in Mexico at that time, as were the Tlamatinimi (which means “wise men” in the ancient Mexican language). They were a pre-Columbian group of intellectuals, engineers, and astronomers who shared a common belief or connection with the Cherokee in that their religion also had only one God who was merciful, who had created all things, and who would provide what you needed, not necessarily what you wished. This ancient Mexican society, the Tlamatinimi, was supremely rational and civilized, arguably even more civilized than Greeks or Romans. Their society existed within different Mexican civilizations and were unfazed by the threat of a gallery of monster gods used to motivate and control the populace. In 1450 A.D. they were centered at Texcoco.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Mayan
                > carving showing Turban with blond mustache & freckled cheekbones
                > supporting Mayan legends of a people who came from the East who
                > worshipped but one God.
                > Cherokee migration legend tells of our exodus north, three to four thousand years ago, past the river of the ferocious ones, which we believe to be the Rio Grande River where the cannibalistic Karankawas lived. In the mid-1800’s, Stephen F. Austin saw this tribe in person and described them as very handsome and intimidating, with men averaging 7 ft. in height and women 6 ft.
                >
                >
                >
                > (Photo - Right)
                > A bearded man in a cloth cap distinguishes this Mayan carving.
                > The Cherokee pushed on to the big waters of the Mississippi, then on to the headwaters of the Ohio, where they built walled cities and huge mounds for burial. The Delaware came from the west and, with assistance from the Iroquois federation, fought to remove the Cherokee, for the time period of 7 chiefs, or approximately 200 years, before the Cherokee went East to the mountains and coast. The exodus was pressured by war to continue south with the Cherokees arriving in the Georgia area in approximately 800 to 1000 A.D.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Cherokee Chief John Jolly as depicted by George Catlin
                > The first European or Spaniard to visit the Cherokee in the Georgia area was the explorer conquistador DeSoto in 1540. His official writings astonishingly state that many of the Cherokee were light skinned while, of course, many were not. De Soto noted “some with light brown and blond hair equal in coloration to some of my Spanish soldiers”. Of the hundred or more indigenous tribes visited by this Spanish explorer, no other tribe would be noted for the great mystery of being racially mixed like the Cherokee. According to oral tradition and existing written history, we know we have been mixed for several thousand years. Cherokee Chief Oconostota, whose forefathers had all been chiefs, had himself been chief for 60 years when, in 1782, he told Col. Sevier about the Cherokee history of the Welch people who had come in approximately 1100. The Chiefs story also agrees with the Welsh legend of Prince Maddox, who was said to have come with ten
                > shiploads of white people and settled on the Hiawasse River. The Cherokee fought with them, took prisoners, and negotiated the retreat of the Welsh, who joined the Mandan tribe on Mobile Bay. (This is stated in an existing document dated 1808 which Col. Sevier sent to Major Stoddard, who was trying to locate these racially mixed Indians.)
                > (Photo - Right)
                > The natural beauty of Coahuila has always attracted Native Americans.
                > The first Cherokees to return to Mexico went in 1720 to the mountains of Coahuila.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > The great Cherokee educator and social activist Sequoyah urged Cherokees to come and live in freedom and dignity in Coahuila.
                > In 1822, a newly independent Republic of Mexico granted the Cherokees freedom and immigration rights to the eastern part of the Mexican province of Texas.
                > Photo - Right)
                > One of the last remaining houses of the once great Haciendo Patiño where Sequoyah was befriended after escaping arrest.
                > Seventeen years later, in 1839, the United States began the anti-indigenous eastern ethnic removal, a hardship that killed thousands, of the Cherokees from their homelands of a thousand years in Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina to reservations in Oklahoma. This ethnic removal was only exceeded in injustice by the same anti-indigenous elements of the Republic of Texas government who coveted the Cherokee’s 600,000 acres and began a western ethnic removal of over 1000 Cherokee men, women and children. The Cherokees were led by Chief Bowles, a white skinned, freckled man with dark red hair; a powerfully built warrior with a fair and honest heart, he spoke little English. He and over 100 of his Cherokee brothers were killed in defense of their property that had been granted them by Mexico under the same legal process that Austin’s Anglo settlers had received before the Texas Revolution. Cherokee families who had been peacefully farming
                > their land for almost two decades were now, in 1839, homeless and country-less, many orphaned or widowed.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > An 1839 painting showing Mexican Cherokees at leisure.
                > Before this ethnic cleansing, Sam Houston asked the Attorney General of the Republic of Texas for and received an opinion that stated that “it would be illegal for the Cherokee land to be taken”. Texas President Mirabeau Lamar ignored this legal opinion from his own government and ordered the ethnic cleansing to begin; Burnett carried it out militarily and he personally received the Cherokee lands, which he sold to the public for a huge profit. Lamar had helped write the Indian Removal Act of 1828 in Georgia before coming to Texas to seek his fortune. He was an admitted Cherokee hater.
                > (Photo - Right)
                > Cherokee Medicine Man Swimmer. A noble profession, a noble Cherokee.
                > The surviving Cherokees were arrested and faced with the captivity of the military reservation, but instead resisted and fled to the freedom of the Republic of Mexico. These refugee Cherokees asked the courageous Mexican leaders for help and were granted “amparo” or political amnesty. They were granted permission and settled in the Mexican states of Coahuila, Chihuahua, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas, with the majority choosing to settle in mountainous Coahuila near the historic city of San Fernando now known as Zaragosa.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Chief John Ross, one of the most famous mixed-blood Cherokee Chiefs, he was 1/8th Cherokee.
                > The most famous Cherokee in history to come and live in the freedom of Coahuila, Mexico was Sequoyah. This world famous educator is the only person in human history to develop a written system of syllables, which enabled all Cherokees to be able to write their language proficiently after only two months of study. For this work of genius, the great Sequoyah was featured in every U.S. newspaper and most major world publications.
                > (Photo - Right)
                > Mr. Ridge was very typical of Cherokees with European admixture.
                > He was an U.S. Army veteran known, honored and loved in his time by the red and white man throughout the United States. To this day, U.S. national parks and giant redwood trees bear his name. For his achievements, he was given a house and a yearly monetary pension for the rest of his life in the military-controlled Indian territory, yet he loved and valued freedom so much that he urged all Cherokees to live as a free people in Coahuila, Mexico. Indeed, earlier (in 1836), Chief John Ross had been denied permission by the U.S. Secretary of War to be allowed to sell the Cherokee lands and move the entire tribe to Mexico. Much later, in 1895, the Western Cherokees would consider a vote to move to Mexico to whence Sequoyah had moved in 1842.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Cherokee Mary Delilah Price, 1880, The great-grandmother of Chief Rogers and many of the Cherokee Nation of Mexico members.
                > Immediately upon Sequoyah’s arrival in Mexico, the anti-indigenous elements of the 1842 government of the Republic of Texas who feared Sequoyah’s intellect, celebrity influence, and pro-Native American activist presence in Mexico pressured authorities to dispatch agents that covertly and illegally entered Mexico. Without the process of law and under threat force, they arrested Sequoyah who, even at 73 years of age and suffering from a severe lung infection, managed to “suddenly disappear”, escaping his captors while crossing the Rio Grande River at night. Sequoyah, fighting collapse, persevered and returned to Zaragosa where the kind-hearted Mexican people of that city and the Patinos-Rodriguez-Salinas families of a nearby hacienda, who had all grown to love the venerable Sequoyah, bravely and without consideration for their own personal safety hid him in a secret cave. Sequoyah, who had been very ill for some time, became exhausted from this
                > struggle and flight from captivity to his freedom. The Great Sequoyah died peacefully, a free person, among some of his Cherokee family and many Mexican friends, but not before prophesying that a Cherokee child would someday come, find his grave, and bring his spirit of brotherhood back to the Cherokee and all other people of good heart.
                > (Photo - Right)
                > The
                > Cherokee Indian with the knives is at Fort Sill in 1904 when Geronimo
                > was a prisoner there. He is Joe Howard Layton, grandfather of Chief
                > Rogers, son of Mary Price.
                > According to the legends of both Western Cherokee and Mexican Cherokee, Sequoyah believed with all of his being that Mexico was the ancient land in which our ancestors felt there was a source of knowledge and power. Like a migratory bird, he was determined to return to freedom, even if he perished in this quest.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Charles Ahdoelayhoeski Prophecy Rogers in the darkness of the tomb of Sequoyah points to markings he found.
                > After Sequoyah’s passing, seventy Cherokee warriors fought during the 1842 conflicts in an attempt to reclaim their land. Seventeen Cherokee died.
                > (Photo - Right)
                > Every year the Cherokee Nation of Mexico has the honor of starting the Cabalgata - a trail ride of 8,000 horses.
                > On August 4,2001, President Vincente Fox historically signed Mexican constitutional amendments to reflect the legal presence and protected cultural status of all of the indigenous people of Mexico. This profound act of respect for indigenous cultures by the republic of Mexico is unique among all countries of the world.
                > (Photo - Left)
                > Governor
                > receives a beaded bolo symbolizing the respect that we of the Cherokee
                > Nation of Mexico have for him, the state of Coahuila and all Mexican
                > families.
                > On August 22,2001, the Cherokee nation and tribe of Mexico petitioned Coahuila Governor Enrique Martinez y Martinez to confirm, through formal recognition, the strong continuing bond that exists between the Cherokees and the Mexicans.
                > (Photo - Right)
                > Chief
                > Rogers and Clay Spirit Walker Garrett bring the noble 1910 Mexican
                > Revolution flag from a collection in Chicago back to its home in Mexico
                > as a gift. It was received by the Governor on behalf of all Mexico.
                > Governor Martinez y Martinez acted without hesitation to extend the hand of continuing friendship and ancient brotherhood with formal recognition of the Cherokee, in the same courageous Mexican spirit as the Governor of Coahuila in 1839 and the President of Mexico in 1822.
                > Cherokees come in many colors and we feel that this is one of our strengths which allows us to understand and respect all humans as brothers.
                > Wado (Thank you.)
                > Charles L Jahtlohi (Kingfisher) Rogers M.D.
                > Traditional Chief (Ugu)
                >
                > “Spotted Owl fell asleep under a dancing star.
                > this was the night he learned to dream.
                > His soul became a strong white bird,
                > his mind a snapping terrapin,
                > his body as strong as a bear,
                > his medicine important and peaceful”
                > Marijo Moore - Cherokee
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
                > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:57 PM
                > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS were in what is now Europe
                >
                >
                >  
                > I only got a tiny bit into the article when I went to the Ancient
                > Cherokee Origins site and found a pretty glaring error - which kind of
                > thing always argues that the writer didn't know what he was talking
                > about. He talks about the Cherokee "dolicephalic" skulls.
                >
                > There is no such thing as a "dolicephalic" skull. The proper term is
                > "dolichocephalic." A Google search for dolicephalic only turns up a
                > handful of places where people used the wrong term.
                >
                > It is not exactly a confidence builder...
                >
                > I will continue reading, but wanted to point that out. The rest of the
                > article may be better informed. It does not help (right at the
                > beginning) that the author is talking about 1929 and a time when science
                > was - literally and formally - involved with such widespread ideas as
                > eugenics and classing people according to the size and shape of their
                > skulls. It was a time when northern Europeans were looked at as the
                > human ideal. Thea rticle starts out with a Cherokee researcher in 1929
                > trying to tie the Cherokee with Europeans. While that may at some
                > pioint be shown to be true, in 1929 there was every reason to point out
                > dissimilarities between Cherokee and other Indian tribes so as to say,
                > "We aren't mere savages like the rest of the Indians. We are from the
                > higher class of humans, like you Europeans."
                >
                > ...back to the article. . .
                >
                > Steve Garcia
                >
                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers
                > Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@> wrote:
                > >
                > > As far as the Cactus Hill and the Solutreans are concerned, even more
                > convincing to me is the traditional Chickamauga assertion that ALL
                > Cherokee clans descended from Bear Clan... and that Clan did indeed
                > originate in what is now Europe.
                > >
                > > The skeletal evidence is also convincing.
                > >
                > > see http://www.chickamauga-cherokee.com/origins.html
                > >
                > > The Powhatan were Bear Clan, but it came down through the male line.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS
                > > also see THE CHEROKEE/PHOENICIAN X-FILES
                > >
                > > see also Cherokee travel to Europe to view artifacts (off site)
                > >
                > > see also The Chickamauga Cherokees of Southern Kentucky and Northern
                > Tennessee
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The Cherokees did NOT originate in North America, are different from
                > the Muskogean Creeks and others
                > >
                > >
                > > What Our Historical Chiefs Have Said
                > > According to Chief Attakullakulla's ceremonial speech to the Cherokee
                > Nation in 1750, we traveled here from "the rising sun" before the time
                > of the stone age man.
                > >
                > > What Anthropologists Say Today
                > >
                > >
                > > The Cherokee migrated back and forth from Mexico twice, making the
                > Ozark plateau our home the second time, about 800-1500 years ago. This
                > fact has been proven scientifically by Dr. Tim Jones (a Cherokee
                > descendant) of the University of Arizona -- who holds doctorate degrees
                > in BOTH archeology AND anthropology.
                > >
                > > Â
                > > What Anthropologists said in 1949
                > > Cherokees skulls are NOT like those of other American Indians, as is
                > shown from Anthropological evidence gathered in Archeological sites.
                > > From a newspaper article titled For Palefaces, by Walter Carroll,
                > Durham Morning Herald, December 11, 1949,
                > > "Dr. Kelly explained that his initial concern with Cherokee Origins
                > occurred when he came to the Cherokee reservation in 1929 as a fellow of
                > the National Research Council. He had traveled from Harvard to make a
                > racial study of the present tribes, principally their head forms, which
                > are 'dolicephalic,' (Ancient European, like Hitler called "Aryan" and
                > like many of the Basque Indigenous people of  the mountains of
                > Spain possessed anciently) in contrast he said, with more
                > southeastern tribes, who were prevailingly 'round-headed.' "
                > >
                > >
                > > Long-headed  or dolicephalic (on the left) and round-headed or
                > brachycephalic (on the right) types of Amerindian: both were present in
                > East Tennessee, the former distributed in Canada and northward, the
                > latter in southeastern states. Many of these closely resemble the
                > maritime Neolithic people of Mugem, Portugal, who frequented coasts and
                > rivers, used the bone harpoon, and had domesticated the dog. Photo
                > Walter Eitel.]
                > >
                > > "'Speculations about the origins of the Cherokee' Dr. Kelly said, 'has
                > agitated
                > > the minds of anthropologists for fifty years or more, beginning with
                > James
                > > Mooney, who made investigations on Cherokee myths and traditions at
                > the turn
                > > of the century.'"
                > > "'Anthropologists', Dr. Kelly told the people gathered at the feast,
                > 'have always been intrigued by the ethnic picture of the Cherokee,
                > holding the great central massif of the Southern Appalachian Mountains,
                > a mountain people whose culture always reflected adaptation to uplands,
                > surrounded by tribes of different linguistic and cultural backgrounds.
                > To the south and west, since earliest recorded history (the reports of
                > the expedition of Hernando DeSoto and other 16th century Spanish
                > explorers) were the various tribes belonging to the great
                > Muskogean-speaking family. On the north were the Algonquins and
                > Iroquoian (editors relatives, and toward the Carolina coast was the
                > conclave of Siouan-speaking tribes, whose presence as detached Siouan
                > tribes in the southeast is almost as big a mystery as the Cherokees.'"
                > >
                > > "Dr Kelly explained that archaeologically the picture of the Cherokee
                > origin
                > > remains a mystery despite a great amount of theorizations. This is
                > true,
                > > he said, in spite of the extensive archeological work done in the
                > southeast
                > > in the last 20 years.Work of the Tennessee Department of
                > Anthropology, Dr.
                > > Kelly stated, has indicated that the Overhills Cherokees were
                > culturally
                > > divergent from the parent body of the older Cherokee settlements in
                > the highland
                > > sections of North Carolina and South Carolina."
                > > "Dr. Kelly was high in his praise of the Cherokee people. He described
                > them as a brave, wise, and intelligent group, but added that they had
                > always been "Something like the Irish" in that they could not pass up a
                > good fight when they saw one."
                > >
                > >
                > > What Our Cherokee Historians Have Said
                > >
                > > Budd Gritts was a prominent conservative Baptist minister, author of
                > the
                > > first Keetoowah Constitution and one of the reorganizers of the
                > Original
                > > Keetoowah Society in 1858.
                > > The Cherokee Nation lands were allotted at the turn of the 20th
                > century, and its government was terminated by Congress in 1906...
                > illegally as it turns out...
                > > Levi B. Gritts was the ONLY man ever recognized by all Cherokee Nation
                > factions to be acceptable as their Chief back in the mid 1920s.
                > > Budd's relative Levi B. Gritts taught that the Cherokee came from
                > an island off the coast of South America that sank after the elders
                > misused "white fire." This is too close to the story of the destruction
                > of Atlantis to be ignored except by the most inveterate cynics among us.
                > > Levi B. Gritts was a very honorable person and remembered as a very
                > wise man, and later became historian for the Cherokee Nation after Harry
                > Truman illegally appointed W.W. Keeler as Principal Chief of the
                > Cherokee Nation, an action which was later overturned in Ground vs.
                > Keeler, and the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the governments of a "5
                > civilized tribes" to hold elections and set up national governments.
                > >
                > >
                > > Old Traditions Held By Some Cherokee
                > > Some Cherokee holy people taught that we came from what is known
                > today as "Atlantis," from a Medicine Clan called the Assaga
                > (pronounced Ah-sah-gah). These people sent out colonies to preserve the
                > Ageless Wisdom. One group of Assaga went into the Great Smokey Mountains
                > where they later combined with other wanderers to become the Cherokees.
                > Another group settled in what became "New England" and combined with an
                > exiled Cherokee clan to become the Oneida tribe, and another went much
                > further North into what became Nova Scotia to become known as Naskapi.
                > >
                > > Â back
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Â
                > >
                > > Prophecykeepers Foundation is a 501(c)3 Public Foundation and a
                > Congressional District Program at http://www.Prophecykeepers.com The
                > White Roots of Peace Council was founded by the late 6 Nations
                > Peacemaker Mad Bear Anderson, Sachem of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.
                > We tell the unpopular truths of prophecy that others are afraid to
                > tell... and cannot profit from.
                > >
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@
                > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:53 PM
                > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] DNA and projectile point
                > information
                > >
                > >
                > > Â
                > > Larry,
                > >
                > > Isn't there more recent evidence casting doubt on the DNA finds and
                > connection to Europe of the Solutrian period? Â I think it is very
                > probable that people followed the ice and islands that were the grand
                > banks off New England, to this continent, from Europe. Â I also think
                > Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had changed his mind about points he
                > was finding at Spruce Hill and other sites on the East coast that
                > support the DNA evidence. Watch the old movies of Eskimos riding kayaks
                > in waves. Â One such Innuit was found hundred of miles out in the
                > Ocean by an English Ship and was brought to England where he learned
                > English while staying at a monastery. Â The journey across the ocean
                > was possible following seals, whales, or sea birds. Â Getting blown
                > out to sea may have been a boost to some ancient travelers. Â
                > >
                > > I also read a report this Fall that dredge spoil along the beaches
                > from work done after hurricane damage was producing stone projectile
                > points made in the image of the Solutrians and did not resemble points
                > made in Siberian style. Â Â
                > >
                > > Thanks for sharing this information and the sources. Â I hope
                > others will share what they have find on line with this group.
                > >
                > > Ted Sojka
                > >
                > > PS Â A site that is updated daily on archeology sent me by JQ
                > Jacobs is
                > >
                > > http://www.archaeologica.org/NewsPage.htm
                > >
                > ........................................................................\
                > ...........................
                > >
                > > On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Larry Hancock wrote:
                > >
                > > In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans.
                > This group, called "X," is present in three percent of living Native
                > Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only
                > in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the
                > population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been
                > found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. (ibid p
                > 62)
                > > >In a later book, Little et al state that the percent of individuals
                > among the Iroquois with haplogroup X was a striking "nearly 25%".
                > > >Not long after [1997], studies were published that had performed
                > mtDNA analysis on the remains of individuals who had been buried in
                > mounds in north central America. Sometime thereafter many studies
                > reported on the testing of ancient remains recovered from burials from
                > other parts of the United States. As with the living Native Americans
                > haplogroup X showed up - in about 4 percent of the remains. But in the
                > Northeast, in the traditional lands of the Iroquois, it was in nearly 25
                > percent of some tribes as well as in ancient remains. Then haplogroup X
                > was found in several individuals who had died over 8000 years ago in
                > Florida. All these remains were so old that the implications were
                > crystal clear: haplogroup X had to have entered America thousands of
                > years before historical times. (Ancient South America, Little et al, pub
                > 2002, p 50)
                > > >This same book published by these authors added the significant new
                > item:
                > > >In a 2001 study haplogroup X was identified in ancient remains
                > (6,000-8,000 years old) found in several cemeteries in the traditional
                > area occupied by the Basque - The Pyrenees Mountains of France and
                > Spain. (Ancient South America, by Gregory L. Little, John Van Auken,
                > Lora Little published 2002, p 50.)
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • james m clark jr
                Hey Susan, AWS, Hard drives are alot more reasonable; besideds the viruses may not have effeted the regeistry. So if you haven t trashed your PC keep [in
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 22, 2012
                  Hey Susan, AWS,

                  Hard drives are alot more reasonable; besideds the viruses may not have effeted the regeistry. So if you haven't trashed your PC keep [in which I couldn't afford to] the Hard drive it can be eventually formated and vital partition information such as personal regersted program inform can still be recoverd by someone who knows how. Text such as ebooks, or pdf's may be few in number... photos & programs and music are abundant.

                  I am sure there are students at UM that would be glad to help and willing to take the risk as it is simular to jump starting a car with a battery that isn't recommended so that it mimics more like an external hardrive to safeguard the viral version of window from loading up as the primary drive.

                  Did this with a backup drive which is a no no and found only 1 of 3 Divine Vermont pdf's from Larry in which I am going to compress and see if it's small enough to add in AWS files if possible.... it's the reason why I haven't yet deleted the folder in AWS "Files" section at the site in case some are still wondering why I haven't removed it.

                  be well,
                  jamey

                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Much appreciation, Ted for the offer that someone send me a computer --- on loan or otherwise --- but i declined one for a reasonable cost last fall. Mostly because of my ineptitude  the past two years losing two computers to viruses,  despite good anti-viral software. PC's are too costly to maintain and i dont want to crash another.  I have been doing well with an iPhone and library computers.   And just received an iPad from my children for Christmas, which I understand is less susceptible to viruses. 
                  >
                  > My gratitude also to member Larry J. In Madison, Wisconsin for his many hours trying to revamp my last laptop;  he also did not cash my checks for his professional services.  
                  >
                  > Ted, thanks for submitting another of your fine drawings in your reply to the excellent series of posts from the membership that have been forthcoming. To all here ... So many within this highly diplomatic membership have been so astute at moderating, supporting, 'co-hosting' each other here that the host/co-hosts have little to do other than follow posts and, as host MinnesotaStan posted not long ago, perform an occasional tweak here and there. As occurred this week when a couple of you inadvertently sent duplicate posts. 
                  >
                  > I learn much from this association --- likely many scientific and cultural teachings not yet found in texts and classrooms.  Especially when i was quite ill for a time, i was particularly warmed by the personal and cordial sharings of diverse backgrounds, experiences, and opinions here. Your doing all of the above makes my own co-hosting specialty an easy one-- that of greeting newcomers, encouraging members to directly post upcoming events related to this group. And asking you to keep us current about your research, papers, books, media presentations, etc.  i believe that within groups operating as ours oftentimes does, the shared work of one or more here potentially can effect all interested members and onlookers here.  Synergically.
                  >
                  > Anyway, my new iPad should work well enough to carry forth my co-hosting duties. One day I will get hold of a PC enough hours in order to resurrect the AWS newcomer welcoming newsletter. Last year it became so filled with members' links and data that it would not submit. 
                  >
                  > I may not know first names of some of you posting, or even general localities of most members' nearby 'ancient waterways'.  But my appreciation goes out to each here for your helpful, insightful posts  to our global and diverse membership.  
                  >
                  > Susan 
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPad
                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Never get in a hurry to send a message.
                  > >
                  > > Begin forwarded message:
                  > >
                  > > From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@>
                  > > Date: January 11, 2012 9:37:13 PM CST
                  > > To: ted sojka <tedsojka@>
                  > > Subject: Fwd: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ojibwe.org
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I am sure glad for the information you all have sent to Jeff.
                  > >
                  > > Jeff, it is very good to learn from all these great people on line.
                  > >
                  > > I have sent a few comments to him as not to bore you all with my wit
                  > > and wisdom, or lack of it!
                  > >
                  > > I think traditional education might have a leg up when an entire
                  > > community was devoted to teaching children history, myth, and legend.
                  > > Much cheaper than sending all the youngsters off to school and college?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > For those in the dominant society who think we do not have myths,
                  > > think of Washington's cherry tree, or Daniel Boone and the killing of
                  > > the bear when he was only three? Washington crossing the Deleware is
                  > > now in a new version without the stars and stripes and the rowboat.
                  > > That flag was not produced until a year after the crossing at Valley
                  > > Forge. He actually rode a ferry type barge rather than the row boat
                  > > in our common memory from the artist painting. By the way that
                  > > painting in the Metropolitan in New York is the size of a billboard
                  > > and very impressive. A guard there once showed me that all the people
                  > > in the picture were the same model as the artist could not afford more
                  > > than one when he did the painting. The same guy with hair, no hair,
                  > > hat, etc. I laughed and did enjoy what the fellow had learned from
                  > > another docent.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Gathering fish in the spring floods on the Oneota River, by Ted Sojka
                  > >
                  > > Does someone out there have a spare computer to send to Susan, our
                  > > ailing moderator who has recovered from her surgery, but did tell me
                  > > that her computer did not survive!
                  > >
                  > > ted
                  > > PS
                  > > Someone please educate us all on the Chippewa and Ojibway.
                  > >
                  > > Some locals here were moved to land in between the Sioux and Ojibway
                  > > at Long Prairie, Minnesota around 1850. They had to fight both for a
                  > > while. Coming Thunder, pictured below, was one of these fellows. An
                  > > insult added to injury, as he and his followers were first put into a
                  > > DMZ in between the Sac and Fox and the Sioux of Wabasha's band. They
                  > > had been enemies of both for years.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Coming Thunder, photographed at Fort Snelling where he was being held
                  > > in "protective custody" , during the 1862 Sioux uprising. He wears
                  > > the peace medal given out at the treaty of 1825.
                  > >
                  > > There was an artist present at this treaty and this may be a portrait
                  > > painted at that time at Fort Crawford at Prarie du Chien.
                  > > Thanks to Professor David Faldet who wrote a book called "Oneota Flow"
                  > > and
                  > > has taken the time to know many of the descendants of this Ho Chunk
                  > > leader.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> .
                  > > >> On Jan 11, 2012, at 2:06 PM, martincarriere@ wrote:
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> In their own tellings the Iroquois did not hold a memory of snow
                  > > >>> until after they had travelled north. They had no traditions of
                  > > >>> winter clothing, snow shoes or how to function outdoors in the
                  > > >>> snow. They basically remained snowbound in their lodgings till the
                  > > >>> spring. It is our understanding that the northern territories were
                  > > >>> occupied by the Huron confederacy families at that time not the
                  > > >>> Ojibwa.
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> Best,
                  > > >>> Martin Carriere
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hancock
                  > > >>> <hancocklarry40@> wrote:
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > While I do not have the reference any longer, years ago I read
                  > > >>> somewhere that the Iriquois winter count recorded that they
                  > > >>> migrated from somewhere south all the way up into Canada then were
                  > > >>> forced back to New York state, driving a wedge between the
                  > > >>> Objibwa and more eastern Algonquian peoples. I also read that the
                  > > >>> Objibwa language is more closely related to the Algonkian
                  > > >>> languages of Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine on East than toÂ
                  > > >>> Algonkian languages farther south.Â
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > --- On Mon, 1/9/12, Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@> wrote:
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@>
                  > > >>> > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] ojibwe.org
                  > > >>> > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >>> > Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 11:14 PM
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Â
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > In 1570, the Mohawk, Seneca, Onondaga, Oneida, and Cayuga formed
                  > > >>> a confederacy called the League of the Iroquois. This governing
                  > > >>> body was made up of 50 members whose task was to confer about
                  > > >>> problems with outside tribes.
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > From: quarefremeruntgentes7@ <quarefremeruntgentes7@>;
                  > > >>> > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                  > > >>> > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] ojibwe.org
                  > > >>> > Sent: Mon, Jan 9, 2012 4:23:56 AM
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Did the Iroquois always occupy the New York / Pennsylvania
                  > > >>> region, or did they migrate there from further South at some point
                  > > >>> in time?
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > While I appreciate this information, I find myself attempting to
                  > > >>> remember Native histories and prehistories that I studied at
                  > > >>> Rutgers 25 years ago. Presumably, the Lene Lenape covered more
                  > > >>> territory than just the Delaware Valley prior to the onset of
                  > > >>> hostilities between them and the Iroquois.
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Jeff
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > -----Original Message-----
                  > > >>> > From: "Vince" <v_barrows@>
                  > > >>> > Sender: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >>> > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:45:28
                  > > >>> > To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > >>> > Reply-To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >>> > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] ojibwe.org
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > The Lenni Lenapi are identified as the ancient ancestors of the
                  > > >>> Ojibwe and the Wallum Olum is identified as the oldest written
                  > > >>> record in North America by the Lenni Lenapi which dates back prior
                  > > >>> to 1600 BC, according to 2002 PBS documentary and companion book,
                  > > >>> Ojibwe Waasa Inaabidaa.
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > The Ojibwe published the Waasa Inaabidaa in 2002. It is a six
                  > > >>> part PBS series which won five (5) emmy awards. The Companion Book
                  > > >>> Ojibwe: Waasa Inaabidaa, We look in all directions is an
                  > > >>> outstanding example of First Nations history from the Native
                  > > >>> perspective. Thomas Peacock is an Ojibwe educator and writer from
                  > > >>> Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Ojibwe. He is also an associate
                  > > >>> professor of education at the University of Minnesota Duluth. This
                  > > >>> book is a personal history as well as a Nation's history told in a
                  > > >>> well-documented and informative style. The chapters begin with the
                  > > >>> author's personal anecdotes that relate to the topic. The first
                  > > >>> chapter is Ojibwemowin: Ojibwe Oral Tradition and it describes the
                  > > >>> importance of language, the oral tradition, storytelling, and the
                  > > >>> story of creation. The author relies on the Delaware Nation's
                  > > >>> Wallum Olum as a key source for Ojibwe history and origins. http://www.ojibwe.org/
                  > > >>> The sources detail the Red Score/ Wallum Olum.
                  > > >>> > This source has been reverted for the third time on the Walam
                  > > >>> Olum page. However, the Wallum Olum is specifically attributed to
                  > > >>> the Ojibwe Ancestors (Lenni Lenape) in these sources.
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Suggest looking at the overview description about the Ojibwe
                  > > >>> documentatary here http://www.ojibwe.org/home/overview_description.html
                  > > >>> It should be sourced to show that "PBS Waasa Inaabidaa…We Look
                  > > >>> In All Directions is a six-part television documentary series
                  > > >>> produced by WDSE in Duluth, Minn., about the second largest tribe
                  > > >>> in North America, the Anishinaabe/Ojibwe (Chippewa) nation of the
                  > > >>> upper Great Lakes region. The series includes more than one
                  > > >>> hundred (100) interviews with tribal elders, historians, youth and
                  > > >>> leaders from the ninteen (19) Ojibwe bands in Michigan, Wisconsin
                  > > >>> and Minnesota. These interviews, along with 3,000 archival
                  > > >>> photographs, interviews with academic historians, original and
                  > > >>> historic artwork, and dramatic re-enactments, illustrate the
                  > > >>> Ojibwe people, culture and language through the past two
                  > > >>> centuries."... As stated in the Waasa Inaabidaa, the Lenni Lenape
                  > > >>> were the ancient ancestors of the Ojibwe. "An Epic Story of
                  > > >>> migration, known
                  > > >>> > as the Wallum Olum, Was told by our ancient ancestors, the Lenni
                  > > >>> Lenape."
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > ------------------------------------
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > ------------------------------------
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >>> >
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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