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American Moundbuilders

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  • Vincent Barrows
    attached an article about the Ani-kutani /Cherokee Origins that may be of interest.   ... From: Prophecykeepers Foundation
    Message 1 of 9 , May 19 6:14 AM

    attached an article about the Ani-kutani /Cherokee Origins that may be of interest.
     

    --- On Wed, 5/18/11, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote:

    From: Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...>
    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders
    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 8:41 PM

     
    They were taller and lighter skinned than natives.

    According to the Keetoowah Society elders (per John Red Hat), the Cherokee fought a war with them when they moved into the Mississippi valley during their second migration north from So. America, and ended the war by an agreement to intermarry with them. After that, they fought with the Iroquois as they entered the Ohio Valley, and ended that war by agreeing to STOP speaking the original Cherokee language, of which today a few fragments exist... probably descendants of Keturah, Abraham's last wife... the Ani (people of) Keturah.

    The extinct eastern a/k/a northern a/k/a Kituwah Cherokee dialect had the "R" sound.
     
    In my mind, the Moundbuilders were probably descendants of the tri-racial people (and Royal family)  who fled from Mauritiania at the time of Caligula... depicted in the thousands of artifacts over hundreds of years that came out of area near Burrows Cave, LONG known in Southern Illinois as "Little Egypt."




    From: Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...>
    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 2:08:02 PM
    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

     
    What I am interested in learning, is wether the moundbuilders all were native Americans, or if there might have been som  immigrants among them. I'd love to see your notes, Larry.
     
    Frode
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:29 PM
    Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

     
    For Christmas I received Bradley Lepper's book on the moundbuilder's of Ohio, and was disappointed that it contained so little information that interested me. I started making notes, mostly from the internet and ended up with about 270 pages of maps, photos and information about the astronomy of moundbuilding sites in the east. Most of this is borrowed and I have tried
    to list my references but may have failed occasionally. These are notes which might be of use to others and could save much time since it took me a couple of months to put this together. I put it seven sections, roughly chronologically, and put that into a pdf file which can be emailed. If anyone would like a copy, let me know and I will forward one to you.

    --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...> wrote:

    From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...>
    Subject: Re: Mount Pisgah stone carvings
    To: peopleofonefire@...
    Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 10:26 PM

    Richard;

    Thanks for your interest and excellent information. It is hoped that the photos of these treasures will spark more research into the origins. I have found that the UNC in Raleigh has a file containing letters that discuss these objects from Mount pisgah. My interest is in learning about the Seneca, Iroquois, Ojibwa, and Cherokee clan symbols parallels with the symbols used on the stones. Was the Cherokee name given by Europeans after their arrival? I have attached an article about the Ani-kutani /Cherokee Origins that may be of interest. Curious to find out more about the Melungeons and Gamla folk that you mentioned.

    Best Regards;
    Vince





    From: "peopleofonefire@..." <peopleofonefire@...>
    To: v_barrows@...
    Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 6:20:11 PM
    Subject: Re: Mount Pisgah stone carvings

    Vince,
     
    I looked at those stone carvings.  I think most of them are real but from several different ethnic groups over a period of time.  I think they were kept as "treasures" by some ethnic group and then buried.  The rectangular flat plates are typical of the Hopewell's and Adena''s of Ohio - but they did trade with the people in the mountains.
     
    The comments by one of the reviewers that they were definitely not Cherokee has no relevance.  The Cherokees DID NOT EVEN ENTER THE SYLVA, NC / JACKSON COUNTY AREA UNTIL 1745.  They didn't find any Indians but quite a few Melungeons, who were working silver mined in Nantahala Gorge. 
     
    Gosh, there were so many different peoples in these mountain valleys, you can't generalize about anything.  The carvings on Track Rock, GA near me are almost identical to those on some stones at the island I worked on between Sweden and Denmark. The carvings on that island dated from the Bronze Age.  I am pretty sure that there were Bronze Age Nordic people in some of the valleys in Georgia.  The modern Scandinavians did not enter Scandinavia until the Iron Age.  They pushed the aborignal people into the mountains between Norway and Sweden.  They are still there today and are called Gamla Folk (the ancient people.)  There is a branch of the Seminoles who originally came from the Georgia mountains who look just like the Gamla Folk.  I don't dare mention in my newsletters because the archaeologists would eat me alive.  The archaeologists in this region know nothing about Scandinavian history, so they would not understand.
     
    Thanks for sending me the photos.
     
    Richard
     
     

  • William Conner
    Brad Lepper is a party line archaeologist.  While I m sure his info about the moundbuilders is reliable, Lepper doesn t stray from the straight and narrow
    Message 2 of 9 , May 20 9:28 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Brad Lepper is a "party line" archaeologist.  While I'm sure his info about the moundbuilders is reliable, Lepper doesn't stray from the straight and narrow of their theology.  I use "theology," because if they were really scientific, they would not ignore such things as the cast iron handaxe I found a prehistoric iron furnace site.  This was found amid the usual debris of pit iron furnace sites I have explored and excavated, as detailed in my book "Iron Age America: Before Columbus."  The diagnostic artifact for the prehistoric iron furnaces is the glass covered hearth stone.  I could escort Lepper to my favorite site, now in parkland of my hometown, Chillicothe, Ohio, where furnace debris, such as glass covered stones, lies scattered on the ground after beingunearthed by a bulldozer.  This is where I found the cast iron hand axe.  A Ph.D. archaeologist is quoted in my book agreeing that this cast iron object looks like a handaxe.  The book is on sale online by Barnes & Noble and Amazonl.
       
      William Conner
       
       

      From: Larry Hancock <hancocklarry40@...>
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 4:45:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

       

      I don't address that issue in these notes. I recommend Joesph Mahan's The Secret about the Yucchi for that. However, the other paper I've been sharing, Divine Vermont, is about the Celtic presence in ancient Vermont. I will forward both to you in separate emails.

      --- On Tue, 5/17/11, Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...> wrote:

      From: Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...>
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 3:08 PM

       

      What I am interested in learning, is wether the moundbuilders all were native Americans, or if there might have been som  immigrants among them. I'd love to see your notes, Larry.
       
      Frode
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:29 PM
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

       

      For Christmas I received Bradley Lepper's book on the moundbuilder's of Ohio, and was disappointed that it contained so little information that interested me. I started making notes, mostly from the internet and ended up with about 270 pages of maps, photos and information about the astronomy of moundbuilding sites in the east. Most of this is borrowed and I have tried
      to list my references but may have failed occasionally. These are notes which might be of use to others and could save much time since it took me a couple of months to put this together. I put it seven sections, roughly chronologically, and put that into a pdf file which can be emailed. If anyone would like a copy, let me know and I will forward one to you.

    • Ted Sojka
      I am sure you all realize who know Dr. lepper, and I know some people who have worked with him, he went way out on limb for those who believe in the Lunar
      Message 3 of 9 , May 20 5:41 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        I am sure you all realize who know Dr. lepper, and I know some people who have worked with him, he went way out on limb for those who believe in the Lunar cycle creation of the Octagon, though he did get a bit nervous about the guys who did the snake mound calculations.   I am with the Snake mound guys as far as the solar alignments and have no problem with it.  Party line archeologist don't want to sacrifice reputations over speculative interpretations.  

        When Mud Cave was discovered in the mountains down in Kentucky and Tennessee, the guys who did not believe they could be thousands of years old were wrong.  It takes a bit of presenting at conferences until you get enough people to think out of the box.  Dennis Sampson and his partner Dave, have done a 180 degree turn on lithic technology, and now think the finds coming out of dredge spoil off the Atlantic coast, have French connections with the Solutrians, way more than anything that came out of Siberia and land bridge dogma.  Watch for their new book coming out this Fall.

        Never saw this coming twenty years ago.

        Brad is OK from several first nation people I know, one of them an archeologist, and that is enough for me.  

        Ohio politics aside, he is a good guy.  Not offense to William either.
        Ted
        ps
        Do you have a photo of that handaxe online?


        On May 20, 2011, at 11:28 AM, William Conner wrote:


        Brad Lepper is a "party line" archaeologist.  While I'm sure his info about the moundbuilders is reliable, Lepper doesn't stray from the straight and narrow of their theology.  I use "theology," because if they were really scientific, they would not ignore such things as the cast iron handaxe I found a prehistoric iron furnace site.  This was found amid the usual debris of pit iron furnace sites I have explored and excavated, as detailed in my book "Iron Age America: Before Columbus."  The diagnostic artifact for the prehistoric iron furnaces is the glass covered hearth stone.  I could escort Lepper to my favorite site, now in parkland of my hometown, Chillicothe, Ohio, where furnace debris, such as glass covered stones, lies scattered on the ground after beingunearthed by a bulldozer.  This is where I found the cast iron hand axe.  A Ph.D. archaeologist is quoted in my book agreeing that this cast iron object looks like a handaxe.  The book is on sale online by Barnes & Noble and Amazonl.
         
        William Conner
         
         

        From: Larry Hancock <hancocklarry40@...>
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 4:45:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

         

        I don't address that issue in these notes. I recommend Joesph Mahan's The Secret about the Yucchi for that. However, the other paper I've been sharing, Divine Vermont, is about the Celtic presence in ancient Vermont. I will forward both to you in separate emails.

        --- On Tue, 5/17/11, Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...> wrote:

        From: Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...>
        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 3:08 PM

         

        What I am interested in learning, is wether the moundbuilders all were native Americans, or if there might have been som  immigrants among them. I'd love to see your notes, Larry.
         
        Frode
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:29 PM
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

         

        For Christmas I received Bradley Lepper's book on the moundbuilder's of Ohio, and was disappointed that it contained so little information that interested me. I started making notes, mostly from the internet and ended up with about 270 pages of maps, photos and information about the astronomy of moundbuilding sites in the east. Most of this is borrowed and I have tried
        to list my references but may have failed occasionally. These are notes which might be of use to others and could save much time since it took me a couple of months to put this together. I put it seven sections, roughly chronologically, and put that into a pdf file which can be emailed. If anyone would like a copy, let me know and I will forward one to you.




      • William Conner
        Yes, I certainly do have a photo of the cast iron hand axe online.  I just googled it.  And, as far as I ve been able to determine, it is unique -- one of a
        Message 4 of 9 , May 20 8:16 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, I certainly do have a photo of the cast iron hand axe online.  I just googled it.  And, as far as I've been able to determine, it is unique -- one of a kind.  I can take anyone to the site, which is now on public parkland of the city of Chillicothe, my hometown.
          The site was privately owned when I worked there, and I had permission to do so by the land owner.  Enter "Iron Age America" in your search engine and a listing for my blog will come up.  Click on it and if you have reached the right web site, the cast iron hand axe will appear.  
           
          I have a collection of pit furnace artifacts I have acquired during my lifetime.  Fearing that my most valuable piece, the cast iron hand axe, might not survive my death (I'm 76), I have passed it on to Wayne May, publisher of "Ancient American."   Other people know of the location of some of my sites.  And, some info I that didn't make it into the book, is including in my web blog.
           
          By the way, Dr. Brad Lepper is a good fellow.  Once we appeared as speakers at an archeological debate sponsored by the Midwestern Epigraphic Society, the archeology club of which I am a member of long standing.  The club is based in Columbus.  Lepper and I don't agree on some things, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if wrong! 
           
          William Conner 
           


          From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 8:41:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

           

          I am sure you all realize who know Dr. lepper, and I know some people who have worked with him, he went way out on limb for those who believe in the Lunar cycle creation of the Octagon, though he did get a bit nervous about the guys who did the snake mound calculations.   I am with the Snake mound guys as far as the solar alignments and have no problem with it.  Party line archeologist don't want to sacrifice reputations over speculative interpretations.  


          When Mud Cave was discovered in the mountains down in Kentucky and Tennessee, the guys who did not believe they could be thousands of years old were wrong.  It takes a bit of presenting at conferences until you get enough people to think out of the box.  Dennis Sampson and his partner Dave, have done a 180 degree turn on lithic technology, and now think the finds coming out of dredge spoil off the Atlantic coast, have French connections with the Solutrians, way more than anything that came out of Siberia and land bridge dogma.  Watch for their new book coming out this Fall.

          Never saw this coming twenty years ago.

          Brad is OK from several first nation people I know, one of them an archeologist, and that is enough for me.  

          Ohio politics aside, he is a good guy.  Not offense to William either.
          Ted
          ps
          Do you have a photo of that handaxe online?


          On May 20, 2011, at 11:28 AM, William Conner wrote:


          Brad Lepper is a "party line" archaeologist.  While I'm sure his info about the moundbuilders is reliable, Lepper doesn't stray from the straight and narrow of their theology.  I use "theology," because if they were really scientific, they would not ignore such things as the cast iron handaxe I found a prehistoric iron furnace site.  This was found amid the usual debris of pit iron furnace sites I have explored and excavated, as detailed in my book "Iron Age America: Before Columbus."  The diagnostic artifact for the prehistoric iron furnaces is the glass covered hearth stone.  I could escort Lepper to my favorite site, now in parkland of my hometown, Chillicothe, Ohio, where furnace debris, such as glass covered stones, lies scattered on the ground after beingunearthed by a bulldozer.  This is where I found the cast iron hand axe.  A Ph.D. archaeologist is quoted in my book agreeing that this cast iron object looks like a handaxe.  The book is on sale online by Barnes & Noble and Amazonl.
           
          William Conner
           
           

          From: Larry Hancock <hancocklarry40@...>
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 4:45:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

           

          I don't address that issue in these notes. I recommend Joesph Mahan's The Secret about the Yucchi for that. However, the other paper I've been sharing, Divine Vermont, is about the Celtic presence in ancient Vermont. I will forward both to you in separate emails.

          --- On Tue, 5/17/11, Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...> wrote:

          From: Frode Th. Omdahl <f2@...>
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 3:08 PM

           

          What I am interested in learning, is wether the moundbuilders all were native Americans, or if there might have been som  immigrants among them. I'd love to see your notes, Larry.
           
          Frode
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:29 PM
          Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] American Moundbuilders

           

          For Christmas I received Bradley Lepper's book on the moundbuilder's of Ohio, and was disappointed that it contained so little information that interested me. I started making notes, mostly from the internet and ended up with about 270 pages of maps, photos and informatio! n about the astronomy of moundbuilding sites in the east. Most of this is borrowed and I have tried
          to list my references but may have failed occasionally. These are notes which might be of use to others and could save much time since it took me a couple of months to put this together. I put it seven sections, roughly chronologically, and put that into a pdf file which can be emailed. If anyone would like a copy, let me know and I will forward one to you.




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