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Re: John Sevier's 1810 letter about Madoc

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  • james m clark jr
    For clarity to AWS and Blue Otter regarding my last entry was not to discredit Chief Oconostota nor John Sevier. Apparantly Welsh standards appear not to be
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      For clarity to AWS and Blue Otter regarding my last entry was not to discredit Chief Oconostota nor John Sevier. Apparantly Welsh standards appear not to be considered maternal in regard to other traditions; namely Anglos and Saxons etc., ...so that may have some bearing as Welsh Kings have made major contrubutions to the stability of Brittan since ancient times.

      Such books published in Welsh or perhaps French may have preceeded an English version of simular books, but in this case I doubt it.

      "The book," complete : being the whole of the depositions on the investigation of the conduct of the Princess of Wales, before Lords Erskine, Spencer, Grenville, and Ellenborough, the four commissioners of inquiry, appointed by the King, in the year 1806 (1813)

      http://www.archive.org/details/thebookcompleteb00perciala

      Again no lose search of a Modoc wasn't found.... not in English. Perhaps there is a mention of an adoption as is the Welsh case of the Biblical [Princess] Claudia/Gladies in the early 1st century.

      Regardless of my views the name Modoc itself wasn't chosen or to be taken lightly in battle torn regions on the mainland or the isles where the Welsh have trod or claims throughout the midwestern regions of the United States. As far as I am aware of no respected anylist has been brought to my knowledge regarding a report of Servier or account of Oconostota as a hoax. My spoof comment regards my own ignorance. I simplely don't have or know of any futher documentation that I currently cling too.

      As far as other AWS material the maps in the 2nd volume if I can find them [out of copyright] mentioned in vol 1 full text as:

      LIST OF EMBELLISHMENTS AND MAPS

      CONTAINED IN

      yOLUME THE SECOND

      http://www.archive.org/stream/travelsinvarious02clariala/travelsinvarious02clariala_djvu.txt



      discrption and info:
      http://www.archive.org/details/travelsinvarious02clariala

      of pesonal interest...

      GENERAL STATEMENT OF CONTENTS.

      Mosquitoes General Appearance of the Circassian Terri-
      tory Watch-Towers CIMMERIAN BOSPORUS Temrook
      Text of Strabo and Pliny reconciled Fortress and Ruins
      Sienna Remarkable Tomb Antiquity of Arches Milesian
      Gold Bracelet Origin of Temples CEPOE Fortress of
      Taman Taman Ruins of Phanagoria Tmutaracan
      Amphitheatre Other Remains Prekla Volcano Inscrip-
      tions at Taman.

      Also of interst at University of Cal Archives

      ...Catalogue of foreign literature (1898)http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogueofforei00sanfrich#page/n3/mode/2up

      Chinook dictionary hhttp://www.archive.org/details/chinookdictionar00shawrich

      Catalogue of publications of societies and of other periodical works in the library of the Smithsonian institution, July 1, 1858. Foreign works - Smithsonian Institution

      ...and the list goes on

      I will have a library again I can call my digital childern.


      jmcjr

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have found a "Modoc" rather than Madoc in North America but he wasn't a distant seafaring prince...he was later than 1810 and of the Modoc Tribe itself. Modoc's nickname was Captian Jack. From what I gather this seems more like a Welsh pre pentecostal movement and maybe somewhat a spoof. It is said that this west coast tribe was closely related to Klamath who formaly lived in sw Oregon. European encounters seem to vary, ..moreso than any other North American tribe between my lexicon and North American Ency.
      >
      > I also found two others of Maternal decent that may apply to the name Modoc or Madoc. A Sicambrian by the name of Merodach [95 BCE] and Moda, 6th generation of Thor... both sons of Hector different line.
      >
      > Other than these 3 posibillities and the two others mentioned this seems to be regional matter as far as speculation of a Madoc prince.
      >
      > jmcjr
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@> wrote:
      > >
      > > John Sevier, Tennessee’s first governor, in response to a request written to
      > > him in 1810 by a researcher into the history of Louisiana, wrote the following.
      > >
      > > Knoxville, 9 October, 1810
      > > Sir:
      > > * Your letter of Aug.30 ult.,is before me. With respect to the information you
      > > have requested, I shall with pleasure give you so far as my own memory will now
      > > serve me; and also aided by a memorandum taken on the subject, of a nation of
      > > people called the Welsh Indians. In the year 1782 I was on a campaign against
      > > some part of the Cherokees; during the route I had discovered trace of very
      > > ancient tho’ regular fortifications. Some short time after the expedition I had
      > > an occasion to enter into a negotiation with the Cherokee Chiefs for the
      > > purpose of exchanging prisoners. Mter the exchange had been settled, I took an
      > > opportunity of enquiring of a venerable old chief called Oconostota, who then
      > > and had been for nearly sixty years the niling chief of the Cherokee Nation, if
      > > he could inform me what people it had been which had left such signs of
      > > Fortifications in their Country and in PreColumbian Explorer Sites in the
      > > Southeast particular the one on the bank of Highwassee River. The old chief
      > > immediately informed me: "It was handed down by the Forefathers that the works
      > > had been made by the white people who had formerly inhabited the Country, and
      > > at the same time the Cherokees resided low down in the country now called South
      > > Carolina; that a war had existed between the two nations for several years. At
      > > length it was discovered that the whites were making a number of large Boats
      > > which induced the Cherokees to suppose they were about to Descend the Tennessee
      > > River. They then assembled their whole band of warriors and took the shortest
      > > and most convenient route to the Muscle Shoals in order to intercept them on
      > > thek passage down the river. In a few days the Boats hove in sight. A warm
      > > combat ensued with various success for several days. At length the whites
      > > proposed to the Indians that they would exchange prisoners and cease
      > > hostilities, they would leave the Country and never more return, which was
      > > acceded to; and after the exchange parted friendly. That the whites then
      > > Descended the Tennessee down to the Ohio, thence down to the big river (the
      > > Mississippi) then they ascended it up to the Muddy River (the Missouri) and
      > > thence up that river for a great distance. That they were then on some of its
      > > branches, but, says he, they are no more a white people; they are now all
      > > become Indians, and look like the other red people or the Country."
      > >
      > > * I then asked him if he had ever heard any of his ancestors saying what
      > > nation of people these whites belonged to. He answered: "He had heard his
      > > Grandfather and Father say they were a people called Welsh; that they had
      > > crossed the Great Water and landed first near the mouth of the Alabama River
      > > near Mobile and had been drove up to the heads of the waters until they bad
      > > arrived at Highwassee River by the Mexican Indians who bad been drove out of
      > > their own Country by the Spaniards."
      > >
      > > * Many years ago I happened in company with a French-man, who had lived with
      > > the Cherokees and said he had formerly been high up the Missouri. He informed
      > > me he had traded with the Welsh tribe; that they certainly spoke much of the
      > > Welsh dialect, and tho’ their customs was savage and wild yet many of them,
      > > particularly the females, were very fair and white, and frequently told him
      > > that they had sprung from a white nation of people. He also stated that some
      > > small scraps of old books remained among them, but in such tattered and
      > > destructive order that nothing intelligent remained in the pieces or scraps
      > > left. He observed, their settlement was in an obscure quarter on a branch of
      > > the Missouri running through a bed of lofty mountains. His name has escaped my
      > > memory.
      > >
      > > * The chief Oconostota informed me: "An old woman in his nation called Peg had
      > > some part of an old book given her by an Indian who had lived high up the
      > > Missouri, and thought it was one of the Welsh tribe." Before I had an
      > > opportunity of seeing it, her house and all the contents burnt. I have seen
      > > persons who had seen parts of a very old and disfigured book with this old
      > > Indian woman, but neither of them could make any discovery of what language it
      > > was printed in (neither of them understood languages, but a small smattering of
      > > English).
      > >
      > > * I have thus, Sir, communicated and detailed the particulars of your request,
      > > so far as I have any information on the subject, and wish it were more
      > > comprehensive than you will find it written.
      > >
      >
    • Prophecykeepers Foundation
      Hey... a lot of the Madoc story is in the realm mystery. I seriously doubt the Modoc Indians had any connection to Madoc... but then who knows? It is not like
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 3, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey... a lot of the Madoc story is in the realm mystery.

        I seriously doubt the Modoc Indians had any connection to Madoc... but then who knows?

        It is not like Madoc had a scribe along for the ride.

        On that subject, has anyone read Tell Them They Lie by Traveller Bird about Sequoyah? It was an expensive rare used book, but I bought a copy 3 years ago. Fascinating!



        From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, April 3, 2011 4:39:58 PM
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: John Sevier's 1810 letter about Madoc

         

        For clarity to AWS and Blue Otter regarding my last entry was not to discredit Chief Oconostota nor John Sevier. Apparantly Welsh standards appear not to be considered maternal in regard to other traditions; namely Anglos and Saxons etc., ...so that may have some bearing as Welsh Kings have made major contrubutions to the stability of Brittan since ancient times.

        Such books published in Welsh or perhaps French may have preceeded an English version of simular books, but in this case I doubt it.

        "The book," complete : being the whole of the depositions on the investigation of the conduct of the Princess of Wales, before Lords Erskine, Spencer, Grenville, and Ellenborough, the four commissioners of inquiry, appointed by the King, in the year 1806 (1813)

        http://www.archive.org/details/thebookcompleteb00perciala

        Again no lose search of a Modoc wasn't found.... not in English. Perhaps there is a mention of an adoption as is the Welsh case of the Biblical [Princess] Claudia/Gladies in the early 1st century.

        Regardless of my views the name Modoc itself wasn't chosen or to be taken lightly in battle torn regions on the mainland or the isles where the Welsh have trod or claims throughout the midwestern regions of the United States. As far as I am aware of no respected anylist has been brought to my knowledge regarding a report of Servier or account of Oconostota as a hoax. My spoof comment regards my own ignorance. I simplely don't have or know of any futher documentation that I currently cling too.

        As far as other AWS material the maps in the 2nd volume if I can find them [out of copyright] mentioned in vol 1 full text as:

        LIST OF EMBELLISHMENTS AND MAPS

        CONTAINED IN

        yOLUME THE SECOND

        http://www.archive.org/stream/travelsinvarious02clariala/travelsinvarious02clariala_djvu.txt

        discrption and info:
        http://www.archive.org/details/travelsinvarious02clariala

        of pesonal interest...

        GENERAL STATEMENT OF CONTENTS.

        Mosquitoes General Appearance of the Circassian Terri-
        tory Watch-Towers CIMMERIAN BOSPORUS Temrook
        Text of Strabo and Pliny reconciled Fortress and Ruins
        Sienna Remarkable Tomb Antiquity of Arches Milesian
        Gold Bracelet Origin of Temples CEPOE Fortress of
        Taman Taman Ruins of Phanagoria Tmutaracan
        Amphitheatre Other Remains Prekla Volcano Inscrip-
        tions at Taman.

        Also of interst at University of Cal Archives

        ...Catalogue of foreign literature (1898)http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogueofforei00sanfrich#page/n3/mode/2up

        Chinook dictionary hhttp://www.archive.org/details/chinookdictionar00shawrich

        Catalogue of publications of societies and of other periodical works in the library of the Smithsonian institution, July 1, 1858. Foreign works - Smithsonian Institution

        ...and the list goes on

        I will have a library again I can call my digital childern.

        jmcjr

        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have found a "Modoc" rather than Madoc in North America but he wasn't a distant seafaring prince...he was later than 1810 and of the Modoc Tribe itself. Modoc's nickname was Captian Jack. From what I gather this seems more like a Welsh pre pentecostal movement and maybe somewhat a spoof. It is said that this west coast tribe was closely related to Klamath who formaly lived in sw Oregon. European encounters seem to vary, ..moreso than any other North American tribe between my lexicon and North American Ency.
        >
        > I also found two others of Maternal decent that may apply to the name Modoc or Madoc. A Sicambrian by the name of Merodach [95 BCE] and Moda, 6th generation of Thor... both sons of Hector different line.
        >
        > Other than these 3 posibillities and the two others mentioned this seems to be regional matter as far as speculation of a Madoc prince.
        >
        > jmcjr
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@> wrote:
        > >
        > > John Sevier, Tennessee’s first governor, in response to a request written to
        > > him in 1810 by a researcher into the history of Louisiana, wrote the following.
        > >
        > > Knoxville, 9 October, 1810
        > > Sir:
        > > * Your letter of Aug.30 ult.,is before me. With respect to the information you
        > > have requested, I shall with pleasure give you so far as my own memory will now
        > > serve me; and also aided by a memorandum taken on the subject, of a nation of
        > > people called the Welsh Indians. In the year 1782 I was on a campaign against
        > > some part of the Cherokees; during the route I had discovered trace of very
        > > ancient tho’ regular fortifications. Some short time after the expedition I had
        > > an occasion to enter into a negotiation with the Cherokee Chiefs for the
        > > purpose of exchanging prisoners. Mter the exchange had been settled, I took an
        > > opportunity of enquiring of a venerable old chief called Oconostota, who then
        > > and had been for nearly sixty years the niling chief of the Cherokee Nation, if
        > > he could inform me what people it had been which had left such signs of
        > > Fortifications in their Country and in PreColumbian Explorer Sites in the
        > > Southeast particular the one on the bank of Highwassee River. The old chief
        > > immediately informed me: "It was handed down by the Forefathers that the works
        > > had been made by the white people who had formerly inhabited the Country, and
        > > at the same time the Cherokees resided low down in the country now called South
        > > Carolina; that a war had existed between the two nations for several years. At
        > > length it was discovered that the whites were making a number of large Boats
        > > which induced the Cherokees to suppose they were about to Descend the Tennessee
        > > River. They then assembled their whole band of warriors and took the shortest
        > > and most convenient route to the Muscle Shoals in order to intercept them on
        > > thek passage down the river. In a few days the Boats hove in sight. A warm
        > > combat ensued with various success for several days. At length the whites
        > > proposed to the Indians that they would exchange prisoners and cease
        > > hostilities, they would leave the Country and never more return, which was
        > > acceded to; and after the exchange parted friendly. That the whites then
        > > Descended the Tennessee down to the Ohio, thence down to the big river (the
        > > Mississippi) then they ascended it up to the Muddy River (the Missouri) and
        > > thence up that river for a great distance. That they were then on some of its
        > > branches, but, says he, they are no more a white people; they are now all
        > > become Indians, and look like the other red people or the Country."
        > >
        > > * I then asked him if he had ever heard any of his ancestors saying what
        > > nation of people these whites belonged to. He answered: "He had heard his
        > > Grandfather and Father say they were a people called Welsh; that they had
        > > crossed the Great Water and landed first near the mouth of the Alabama River
        > > near Mobile and had been drove up to the heads of the waters until they bad
        > > arrived at Highwassee River by the Mexican Indians who bad been drove out of
        > > their own Country by the Spaniards."
        > >
        > > * Many years ago I happened in company with a French-man, who had lived with
        > > the Cherokees and said he had formerly been high up the Missouri. He informed
        > > me he had traded with the Welsh tribe; that they certainly spoke much of the
        > > Welsh dialect, and tho’ their customs was savage and wild yet many of them,
        > > particularly the females, were very fair and white, and frequently told him
        > > that they had sprung from a white nation of people. He also stated that some
        > > small scraps of old books remained among them, but in such tattered and
        > > destructive order that nothing intelligent remained in the pieces or scraps
        > > left. He observed, their settlement was in an obscure quarter on a branch of
        > > the Missouri running through a bed of lofty mountains. His name has escaped my
        > > memory.
        > >
        > > * The chief Oconostota informed me: "An old woman in his nation called Peg had
        > > some part of an old book given her by an Indian who had lived high up the
        > > Missouri, and thought it was one of the Welsh tribe." Before I had an
        > > opportunity of seeing it, her house and all the contents burnt. I have seen
        > > persons who had seen parts of a very old and disfigured book with this old
        > > Indian woman, but neither of them could make any discovery of what language it
        > > was printed in (neither of them understood languages, but a small smattering of
        > > English).
        > >
        > > * I have thus, Sir, communicated and detailed the particulars of your request,
        > > so far as I have any information on the subject, and wish it were more
        > > comprehensive than you will find it written.
        > >
        >


      • james m clark jr
        This is somewhat a repost I m not sure that was transmitted via email. At any rate, this wasn t intended to be personal and see it best to also include
        Message 3 of 5 , May 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          This is somewhat a repost I'm not sure that was transmitted via email.

          At any rate, this wasn't intended to be personal and see it best to also include portions that I can recall to AWS which may or may not have any bearing.

          John Sevier's personal journals on 3 accounts are missing for the years 1809 & 1810 and some 5 years or so prior.

          Madoc didn't have a scribe but he did have a poet-historian.

          John Sevier like many may have excepted the poets folklore as history.
          Aside from the Elizabethan era the poet I can't recall the name of published his work a few years before 1810.


          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc

          As of now I am still unable to support or deny such an event.

          jamey

          The following may or may not be of interest

          Due to bad weather in the midwest and southeastern U.S. about a month ago many emails as well as post seem to have been affected at Yahoo! groups which in turn may have cause lost of email or replies via email or to Yahoo! groups. This paricular email like some others at that time were sent to person to person which is rare for me in the second month of madness (early April). I don't recall the dates which doen't really matter but some that don't keep up with various claendars otherwise wouldn't know of a 13 month that was added this year regarding lunar calendars. Besides expected crop shortages predicted this year may be due more to planting out of season. Asides from these storms and this years event this data via satilite may have also conflicted and cause more problems regarding the exchange of information in the digial world with older or out of date global region to region recivers or satilites. As many may find relief regarding the 9/11 event in 2001 this past week it may be of some interest that some lunar calendars also begin on 9/11 this year.



          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation <prophecykeepersdotcom@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey... a lot of the Madoc story is in the realm mystery.
          >
          > I seriously doubt the Modoc Indians had any connection to Madoc... but then who
          > knows?
          >
          >
          > It is not like Madoc had a scribe along for the ride.
          >
          > On that subject, has anyone read Tell Them They Lie by Traveller Bird about
          > Sequoyah? It was an expensive rare used book, but I bought a copy 3 years ago.
          > Fascinating!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sun, April 3, 2011 4:39:58 PM
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: John Sevier's 1810 letter about Madoc
          >
          >
          > For clarity to AWS and Blue Otter regarding my last entry was not to discredit
          > Chief Oconostota nor John Sevier. Apparantly Welsh standards appear not to be
          > considered maternal in regard to other traditions; namely Anglos and Saxons
          > etc., ...so that may have some bearing as Welsh Kings have made major
          > contrubutions to the stability of Brittan since ancient times.
          >
          > Such books published in Welsh or perhaps French may have preceeded an English
          > version of simular books, but in this case I doubt it.
          >
          >
          > "The book," complete : being the whole of the depositions on the investigation
          > of the conduct of the Princess of Wales, before Lords Erskine, Spencer,
          > Grenville, and Ellenborough, the four commissioners of inquiry, appointed by the
          > King, in the year 1806 (1813)
          >
          > http://www.archive.org/details/thebookcompleteb00perciala
          >
          > Again no lose search of a Modoc wasn't found.... not in English. Perhaps there
          > is a mention of an adoption as is the Welsh case of the Biblical [Princess]
          > Claudia/Gladies in the early 1st century.
          >
          > Regardless of my views the name Modoc itself wasn't chosen or to be taken
          > lightly in battle torn regions on the mainland or the isles where the Welsh have
          > trod or claims throughout the midwestern regions of the United States. As far as
          > I am aware of no respected anylist has been brought to my knowledge regarding a
          > report of Servier or account of Oconostota as a hoax. My spoof comment regards
          > my own ignorance. I simplely don't have or know of any futher documentation that
          > I currently cling too.
          >
          > As far as other AWS material the maps in the 2nd volume if I can find them [out
          > of copyright] mentioned in vol 1 full text as:
          >
          >
          > LIST OF EMBELLISHMENTS AND MAPS
          >
          > CONTAINED IN
          >
          > yOLUME THE SECOND
          >
          > http://www.archive.org/stream/travelsinvarious02clariala/travelsinvarious02clariala_djvu.txt
          >
          >
          > discrption and info:
          > http://www.archive.org/details/travelsinvarious02clariala
          >
          > of pesonal interest...
          >
          > GENERAL STATEMENT OF CONTENTS.
          >
          > Mosquitoes General Appearance of the Circassian Terri-
          > tory Watch-Towers CIMMERIAN BOSPORUS Temrook
          > Text of Strabo and Pliny reconciled Fortress and Ruins
          > Sienna Remarkable Tomb Antiquity of Arches Milesian
          > Gold Bracelet Origin of Temples CEPOE Fortress of
          > Taman Taman Ruins of Phanagoria Tmutaracan
          > Amphitheatre Other Remains Prekla Volcano Inscrip-
          > tions at Taman.
          >
          > Also of interst at University of Cal Archives
          >
          > ...Catalogue of foreign literature
          > (1898)http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogueofforei00sanfrich#page/n3/mode/2up
          >
          > Chinook dictionary hhttp://www.archive.org/details/chinookdictionar00shawrich
          >
          > Catalogue of publications of societies and of other periodical works in the
          > library of the Smithsonian institution, July 1, 1858. Foreign works -
          > Smithsonian Institution
          >
          > ...and the list goes on
          >
          > I will have a library again I can call my digital childern.
          >
          > jmcjr
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
          > <jameyboy@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have found a "Modoc" rather than Madoc in North America but he wasn't a
          > >distant seafaring prince...he was later than 1810 and of the Modoc Tribe itself.
          > >Modoc's nickname was Captian Jack. From what I gather this seems more like a
          > >Welsh pre pentecostal movement and maybe somewhat a spoof. It is said that this
          > >west coast tribe was closely related to Klamath who formaly lived in sw Oregon.
          > >European encounters seem to vary, ..moreso than any other North American tribe
          > >between my lexicon and North American Ency.
          > >
          > > I also found two others of Maternal decent that may apply to the name Modoc or
          > >Madoc. A Sicambrian by the name of Merodach [95 BCE] and Moda, 6th generation of
          > >Thor... both sons of Hector different line.
          > >
          > > Other than these 3 posibillities and the two others mentioned this seems to be
          > >regional matter as far as speculation of a Madoc prince.
          > >
          > > jmcjr
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Prophecykeepers Foundation
          > ><prophecykeepersdotcom@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > John Sevier, Tennessee’s first governor, in response to a request written
          > >to
          > >
          > > > him in 1810 by a researcher into the history of Louisiana, wrote the
          > >following.
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Knoxville, 9 October, 1810
          > > > Sir:
          > > > * Your letter of Aug.30 ult.,is before me. With respect to the information
          > >you
          > >
          > > > have requested, I shall with pleasure give you so far as my own memory will
          > >now
          > >
          > > > serve me; and also aided by a memorandum taken on the subject, of a nation
          > >of
          > >
          > > > people called the Welsh Indians. In the year 1782 I was on a campaign
          > >against
          > >
          > > > some part of the Cherokees; during the route I had discovered trace of very
          >
          > > > ancient tho’ regular fortifications. Some short time after the expedition
          > >I had
          > >
          > > > an occasion to enter into a negotiation with the Cherokee Chiefs for the
          > > > purpose of exchanging prisoners. Mter the exchange had been settled, I took
          > >an
          > >
          > > > opportunity of enquiring of a venerable old chief called Oconostota, who
          > >then
          > >
          > > > and had been for nearly sixty years the niling chief of the Cherokee Nation,
          > >if
          > >
          > > > he could inform me what people it had been which had left such signs of
          > > > Fortifications in their Country and in PreColumbian Explorer Sites in the
          > > > Southeast particular the one on the bank of Highwassee River. The old chief
          >
          > > > immediately informed me: "It was handed down by the Forefathers that the
          > >works
          > >
          > > > had been made by the white people who had formerly inhabited the Country,
          > >and
          > >
          > > > at the same time the Cherokees resided low down in the country now called
          > >South
          > >
          > > > Carolina; that a war had existed between the two nations for several years.
          > >At
          > >
          > > > length it was discovered that the whites were making a number of large Boats
          > >
          > > > which induced the Cherokees to suppose they were about to Descend the
          > >Tennessee
          > >
          > > > River. They then assembled their whole band of warriors and took the
          > >shortest
          > >
          > > > and most convenient route to the Muscle Shoals in order to intercept them on
          > >
          > > > thek passage down the river. In a few days the Boats hove in sight. A warm
          > > > combat ensued with various success for several days. At length the whites
          > > > proposed to the Indians that they would exchange prisoners and cease
          > > > hostilities, they would leave the Country and never more return, which was
          > > > acceded to; and after the exchange parted friendly. That the whites then
          > > > Descended the Tennessee down to the Ohio, thence down to the big river (the
          >
          > > > Mississippi) then they ascended it up to the Muddy River (the Missouri) and
          >
          > > > thence up that river for a great distance. That they were then on some of
          > >its
          > >
          > > > branches, but, says he, they are no more a white people; they are now all
          > > > become Indians, and look like the other red people or the Country."
          > > >
          > > > * I then asked him if he had ever heard any of his ancestors saying what
          > > > nation of people these whites belonged to. He answered: "He had heard his
          > > > Grandfather and Father say they were a people called Welsh; that they had
          > > > crossed the Great Water and landed first near the mouth of the Alabama River
          > >
          > > > near Mobile and had been drove up to the heads of the waters until they bad
          >
          > > > arrived at Highwassee River by the Mexican Indians who bad been drove out of
          > >
          > > > their own Country by the Spaniards."
          > > >
          > > > * Many years ago I happened in company with a French-man, who had lived
          > >with
          > >
          > > > the Cherokees and said he had formerly been high up the Missouri. He
          > >informed
          > >
          > > > me he had traded with the Welsh tribe; that they certainly spoke much of the
          > >
          > > > Welsh dialect, and tho’ their customs was savage and wild yet many of
          > >them,
          > >
          > > > particularly the females, were very fair and white, and frequently told him
          >
          > > > that they had sprung from a white nation of people. He also stated that some
          > >
          > > > small scraps of old books remained among them, but in such tattered and
          > > > destructive order that nothing intelligent remained in the pieces or scraps
          >
          > > > left. He observed, their settlement was in an obscure quarter on a branch of
          > >
          > > > the Missouri running through a bed of lofty mountains. His name has escaped
          > >my
          > >
          > > > memory.
          > > >
          > > > * The chief Oconostota informed me: "An old woman in his nation called Peg
          > >had
          > >
          > > > some part of an old book given her by an Indian who had lived high up the
          > > > Missouri, and thought it was one of the Welsh tribe." Before I had an
          > > > opportunity of seeing it, her house and all the contents burnt. I have seen
          > >
          > > > persons who had seen parts of a very old and disfigured book with this old
          > > > Indian woman, but neither of them could make any discovery of what language
          > >it
          > >
          > > > was printed in (neither of them understood languages, but a small smattering
          > >of
          > >
          > > > English).
          > > >
          > > > * I have thus, Sir, communicated and detailed the particulars of your
          > >request,
          > >
          > > > so far as I have any information on the subject, and wish it were more
          > > > comprehensive than you will find it written.
          > > >
          > >
          >
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