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Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ancient cave art / TN Cave Art

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  • Chris Patenaude
    Martin, what a beautiful and insightful reply. My own post was purely in the mechanical vein as to why so many of the little bird-shaped items would be
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 30, 2011
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      Martin,
      what a beautiful and insightful reply. My own post was purely in the mechanical vein as to why so many of the little bird-shaped items would be scattered across the sites. They look to be secondary results of nearly identical strike-offs from some predictable, practiced, process of tool manufacture. But i must thank you for the gentle reminder that even the 'solid' parts of our world can only exist at the same time as with the awareness of the ethereal, inter-dimensional and spiritual.
      -chris p

      --- On Wed, 3/30/11, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...>
      wrote:

      From: Martin Carriere <metismartin@...>
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ancient cave art / TN Cave Art
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 7:14 PM



      Hey Chris and other AWSers,

      Although just an opinion, being humbly offered, much evidence intuitively has been presented over years of study and observation of the nature and tradition of Amerindian carving based on their spiritual cosmology of experiential learning of near death experiences before the emergence of anti-experiential religions. The teaching of bird figures being representations of the great creative spirit at the heart of our experience of creation, and the means of communication with the transcendental beings we emerge from to begin our spiritual journeys on the earth, are easily understood by most students of near death experiences. In the current understandings of these experiences the younger the near death experience subject is the more likely they will be to experience an animal or bird expression of the healing forces that bring a return to the living experience. Following their return the memory and teachings of these experiences helped form the animistic teachings of many cultures the world over. It is these foundational teachings that form the tripartite bird idol worship of many modern religions. In this way from the translation of the true experience of children who undergo traumatic returns to life before they are old enough to learn about angels or cherubim, as descriptions of older near death experience subjects are, the more powerful and believable their experiences are of the giver of life and the more believable they are for foundational animistic teachings and sharing. In this way most modern religions still maintain their foundational triumvirate bird expression teachings around of the giver of life and the power of the great healing process when looking into the true face of creation.

      Hope this helps a bit,

      Best,
      Martin Carriere
      .

      --- On Wed, 3/30/11, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:

      From: Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...>
      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ancient cave art / TN Cave Art
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 6:26 PM

       

      Hello, all
      Although I am not a trained "knapper" myself, I've studied some of the ways it is conducted and watched masters at work. Also, I've done extensive observation out in the farm-fields as to what was being left behind by the AmerIndian tool crafters for work- &/or rework-flakes at traditional butcher sites here on the northern prairies.

      Reading the website about how so many 'ubiquitous' finger tools seemed to be 'bird-shaped' chimed a resonance with something I've noticed as a process effect in the art of tool knapping. If there's a particularly styled piece or preferred tool type that was made over and over, the practiced moves and flake-chip patterns become like notes in a memorized piece of music. The same chip, the same crack, the same array of moves are made as precisely as following a musical score.

      Although the main goal was the one larger completed tool, often the by-product manufacture chips were mini-tools in themselves, with edges as fine and serviceable as a pre-planned  tool. Manufacture flakes can pop off the stone in some seemingly outlandish shapes, when all the knapper was trying to do was craft his larger piece into the right profile. Yet, if he's doing it the same way each time, the same shaped chip with the serendipitous outline will result every time he reaches that point in his project.

      From looking at the pictures offered at the website, it would seem the 'bird-shaped' tools were byproduct chips from larger knapped forms, happily re-used for their potential as functional tools. And of course, their serendipitously aesthetic shape. However, I get the impression that they were not the original tool being set out to achieve, but a welcome result of a larger purpose or design.

      mho
      -chris



      --- On Sat, 3/26/11, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:

      From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ancient cave art / TN Cave Art
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, March 26, 2011, 11:30 PM



      All,   I emailed Keith (kbs) on Friday when I did not see a link to the TN cave art his post addressed.  Received a reply then noticed that Ted seemed to have found the intended web site. Thanks to you both.  To make the fine article from the Tennesse Cumberland Plateau more easily retrievable for future Searches into our archives, I shall list the title:  "America's Ancient Cave Art" : http://www.slate.com/id/2288619

      Stan, when searching for the link Friday I ran across an article by Dr. Charles Faulkner from the University of Tennessee who edited the book you listed in your post: "FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF NATIVE AMERICAN CAVE ART IN THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS": http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V59/V59N3-Faulkner.pdf

      Jamey, is this the same fellow who mentioned having similar items from caves and sinkholes along his property in the Highland Rim area of the Cumberland Plateau?  The items seem much smaller than those mentioned a few years later at PreColumbian Inscriptions.  I see Larry removed his own web site "Nichol's Cave" but here is one from an Ohio web site:  "The Nichols Site in Tennessee" : http://www.daysknob.com/Nichols_Site.htm which is  from an also very interesting "Days Knob" Guernsey, Ohio web site:  http://www.daysknob.com/index.html   The Nichols site is not exactly large stone bird heads or reptile/animal bones the size of car hoods'....but I hope in my lifetime we find out if the countless anomalous artifacts were the result of 'glacial wash', or otherwise...

      Jamey, perhaps Melissa or Larry will post at PreColumbian Inscriptions, or you once again....  Susan

       

       

       
      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, minnesotastan@... wrote
      >
      > That looks like a very interesting link at Slate, Ted. I tried to find
      > images from the cave by searching Google Images, without any success.
      > But I did find a book listed at Amazon.com, called The Prehistoric
      > Native American Art of Mud Glyph Cave -
      >
      > http://www.amazon.com/Prehistoric-Native-American-Glyph-Cave/dp/15723343\
      > 39
      >
      > - which is relatively cheap, but I can't seem to ascertain from the
      > listing and the review if the book has photos, or line drawings, or just
      > text. It's not available from our public library.
      >
      > Thank you for posting that link.
      >
      > stan
      >
      >
      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "ted sojka"
      > tedsojka@ wrote:
      >
      > Imagine going down the length of a few football fields into a cave, with
      > a torch made of rolled up bark, the walls are slimy with ancient mud,
      > and some pretty incredible art work, some 6,000 years old.
      >
      > Some of the works are from people older than the Mississippian and
      > Woodland periods.
      >
      > Slate Magazine - cut and paste if you want to see the article and not
      > enough pictures!
      >
      > http://www.slate.com/id/2288619
      >
      > I hope someone writes a book before these fragile pieces are gone.
      >
      > ted
      From: "kbs2244" kbs2244@... Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:48 pm   

       
      For those who care,
      a quick Yahoo search brought up these sites about this.

      The one is PICs about all kinds of things in TN so you have to pick and choose.

      But they do go back more than 800 years.


      For those who care,
      a quick Yahoo search brought up these sites about this.

      The one is PICs about all kinds of things in TN so you have to pick and choose.

      But they do go back more than 800 years.






      Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:48 pm

      "kbs2244" <kbs2244@...>
      kbs2244

      For those who care,
      a quick Yahoo search brought up these sites about this.

      The one is PICs about all kinds of things in TN so you have to pick and choose.

      But they do go back more than 800 years.






      Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:48 pm

      "kbs2244" <kbs2244@...>
      kbs2244







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