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A pre-Clovis skull may have been found in the Americas

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  • minnesotastan@yahoo.com
    Explorers cave-diving in the Yucatan have found a human skull in assocation with megafauna and mastodon bones. Radiocarbon dating is pending, but since the
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 3 10:58 AM
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      Explorers cave-diving in the Yucatan have found a human skull in assocation with megafauna and mastodon bones.  Radiocarbon dating is pending, but since the cave system flooded at the end of the Pleistocene, this skull will probably be the first human bone confirmed to be pre-Clovis.

      Brief summary at TYWKIWDBI ; more details at National Geographic.
    • Susan
      Stan, I am enjoying the articles you have sent. And also becoming a regular viewer at your award-winning TYWKIWDBI site that you obviously spend much time and
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 8 3:16 PM
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        Stan, I am enjoying the articles you have sent.  And also becoming a regular viewer at your award-winning TYWKIWDBI site that you obviously spend much time and attention to graphics and detail.  I see on the right side of the page, 115 links listed just under the heading "archaeology",only  a few of which have been listed at Ancient Waterways:   http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/search/label/archaeology
         
        I was most interested in the Natl. Geographic article about the Yucatan Peninsula (Qunitana Roo) caverns where a pre-Clovis skull was found alongside mastadon bones.  I have been several times in that area diving in the shallower caverns/ceynotes.  Have read and heard references by many catastrophic theorists to sudden or massive upheavals which would have affected land and water around 10,500 BC.   I see within the NG article reference to the formation of the limestone ceynotes and sinkholes present today: 
        Approximately 12,000 years ago, at the end of the Pleistocene epoch, Earth experienced great climatic changes. The melting of the ice caps caused a dramatic rise in global sea levels, which flooded low lying coastal landscapes and cave systems. Many of the subterranean spaces that once provided people and animals with water and shelter became inundated and lost until the advent of cave diving.

        I have been within the ceynotes of that area, even saw evidence of what looked to be charred limestone 'shelves' along the tops of tunnels (now underwater) which indicated that they once held candles or 'oil lamps'--- once caves, tunnels or perhaps dwellings.

        What interests me most within this avocation is when bringing related and viable information together, then seeing larger patterns,. i.e.,  the possiblity that 'climactic' or other catastrophic effects (comet?,ice displacement, etc. ) which occurred at an approximate time period in the Yucatan also may have been takaing place world-wide.  I list again possible verification of a study I have brought up at AWS and Great Pyramid of Giza Research Association research friends before, by the U.S. SEMP team.  Last paragraph refers to five courses of the Nile River; the Fifth or Modern Nile began flowing 12,500 years ago. http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=403

         Coincidence? I think not when considering other worldwide upheavals that transpired around that time frame---land and oceanic changes (possibly 'glacial' ice melt/movement) any of which may have caused significant changes in rivers.  I don't do research per se, but occasionally see large, global picture patterns within credible research sites. Many sources came via members of this group, and that period seems to come up often.  Dr. Robert Schoch and a couple of others emailed awhile back that they found interesting to their work references in the SEMP article to the  "Fourth Nile" which began 400,00 years ago and ended ~12,500 years ago.

        I have enjoyeed the three articles and see them popping up at other sites.  Good material, and as you know, the more ancient the better in these verifications.  I also enjoy some of your 'takes' about submissions sent to the group, have run prints on many, including Steve Garcia's and many here who took a great deal of time putting together and detailing some truly great posts.  I hope some of you are submitting research articles to NEARA, Great Pyramid of Giza, AAPS, Midwestern Epigraphic Society...there are so many avenues for bringing together evidence and well-thoughtout theory/possibilities//probabilities, and the synergy which builds in mutual support and continuous input and polite but constructive cristique.     

        Re; the Channel Islands article and photo or numerous artifacts, I know we have  at least two or three members from California not far from there.  One, in her first letter to the group, brought up artifacts she had found along a coastline near her home.  I am curious to hear further results of her research. 

         Members, I appreciate when you post to the entire group.  And when you continue to support/respond to the submissions of others here.  We are basically self-moderating here so please keep  posting to the group articles, links,  and information from your own observations and experience about things ancient,  especially those linked to waterways, navigational routes, former shorelines near your home/part of the world, areas you have traveled or researched --- information most of us would never learn otherwise.  Which can and could be brought together to form larger, viable patterns that might even change history books and the way we live and interact within the world....

        I suggest that very similarly  such experiences and personal details were shared amongst ancient farers of riverways and oceans with coastal/riverway dweller hosts....... around firesides, lodges worldwide .  Maybe even within the caverns mentioned above.  I have always hoped from membership within this diverse, global association...that in learning to share and think like the ancients, we would do the same in our intercommunications, persoal associations, and synergies with each other.  Perhaps even meet in pairs and small groups.  As Fishtrap Bill and Joe White Eagle did soon when they met at an ancient location in Georgia.  And our AWS gathering where over twenty spent a fairly inexpensive four days together in cabins along a remote Lake Superior copper country shoreline.    The personal sharings and mutual support within Posts and occasional hospitable gatherings,  to me---as was done for countless millinnea ---- is one of the greatest unwritten purposes and reasons for having an international Ancient Waterways Society.   Thank you for your input and membership here, 

        Susan, a co-host and one of the founders....connecting people and resources hoping to uncover more fully the larger picture and scope of who we human beings really are...


        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, minnesotastan@... wrote:
        >
        > Explorers cave-diving in the Yucatan have found a human skull in
        > assocation with megafauna and mastodon bones. Radiocarbon dating is
        > pending, but since the cave system flooded at the end of the
        > Pleistocene, this skull will probably be the first human bone confirmed
        > to be pre-Clovis.
        >
        > Brief summary at TYWKIWDBI <http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/> ; more
        > details at National Geographic
        > <http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2011/02/skul\
        > l-in-mexico-cave-may-be-oldest-american-found.html> .
        >
      • james m clark jr
        I assume it s safe to say repatriation is considered out of bounds regarding pre-Clovis theories so that seems to be out of the question at AWS so that isn t a
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 10 1:10 PM
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          I assume it's safe to say repatriation is considered out of bounds regarding pre-Clovis theories so that seems to be out of the question at AWS so that isn't a issue unless one regards selling human skulls on ebay is not relevant either... but any way.

          I thought about visiting Stan's site a few times, but never had until I ran across it about two months ago due to an ad or some other association at inventorSpot while seaching for the right kind of soil sample kit i was looking for I didn't have much luck with there.

          After my libray was destroyed in July of 2010 I come across some unheard of names of two brothers that appears to be a Mammoth series in the U.K. relesed in 2000 right before the U.S. public library system was overhaled and less user friendly.

          At any rate, In the Mammoth Ency. of the UNSOLVED, one of the Wilson brothers, I assume neither is not a memember of the PGRA (Great Pyramid of Giza Research Association) suggests overall as a whole from what I recall... that the Greek portalin messurement on sea was more accurate than on land... not only the somewhat modern tale of Rennes-Le-Chateau (regarding the "English Connection" or accurate land messurement: kilometer vs Mile) but also for the theory the base of the pyrmid some say the arcitect was Job, is the same as the circumference of the earth as "geodetic" as in works of Berriman's Histical Metrology which seems to be a scientific commonality before the advent of more popular radio cabon dating method.

          jmcjr




          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
          >
          > Stan, I am enjoying the articles you have sent. And also becoming a
          > regular viewer at your award-winning TYWKIWDBI site that you obviously
          > spend much time and attention to graphics and detail. I see on the
          > right side of the page, 115 links listed just under the heading
          > "archaeology",only a few of which have been listed at Ancient
          > Waterways: http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/search/label/archaeology
          > <http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/search/label/archaeology> I was most
          > interested in the Natl. Geographic article about the Yucatan Peninsula
          > (Qunitana Roo) caverns where a pre-Clovis skull was found alongside
          > mastadon bones. I have been several times in that area diving in the
          > shallower caverns/ceynotes. Have read and heard references by many
          > catastrophic theorists to sudden or massive upheavals which would have
          > affected land and water around 10,500 BC. I see within the NG article
          > reference to the formation of the limestone ceynotes and sinkholes
          > present today: Approximately 12,000 years ago, at the end of the
          > Pleistocene epoch, Earth experienced great climatic changes. The melting
          > of the ice caps caused a dramatic rise in global sea levels, which
          > flooded low lying coastal landscapes and cave systems. Many of the
          > subterranean spaces that once provided people and animals with water and
          > shelter became inundated and lost until the advent of cave diving.
          > I have been within the ceynotes of that area, even saw evidence of what
          > looked to be charred limestone 'shelves' along the tops of tunnels (now
          > underwater) which indicated that they once held candles or 'oil
          > lamps'--- once caves, tunnels or perhaps dwellings.
          > What interests me most within this avocation is when bringing related
          > and viable information together, then seeing larger patterns,. i.e.,
          > the possiblity that 'climactic' or other catastrophic effects
          > (comet?,ice displacement, etc. ) which occurred at an approximate time
          > period in the Yucatan also may have been takaing place world-wide. I
          > list again possible verification of a study I have brought up at AWS and
          > Great Pyramid of Giza Research Association research friends before, by
          > the U.S. SEMP team. Last paragraph refers to five courses of the Nile
          > River; the Fifth or Modern Nile began flowing 12,500 years ago.
          > http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=403
          > <http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=403>
          > Coincidence? I think not when considering other worldwide upheavals
          > that transpired around that time frame---land and oceanic changes
          > (possibly 'glacial' ice melt/movement) any of which may have caused
          > significant changes in rivers. I don't do research per se, but
          > occasionally see large, global picture patterns within credible research
          > sites. Many sources came via members of this group, and that period
          > seems to come up often. Dr. Robert Schoch and a couple of others
          > emailed awhile back that they found interesting to their work references
          > in the SEMP article to the "Fourth Nile" which began 400,00 years ago
          > and ended ~12,500 years ago.
          > I have enjoyeed the three articles and see them popping up at other
          > sites. Good material, and as you know, the more ancient the better in
          > these verifications. I also enjoy some of your 'takes' about
          > submissions sent to the group, have run prints on many, including Steve
          > Garcia's and many here who took a great deal of time putting together
          > and detailing some truly great posts. I hope some of you are submitting
          > research articles to NEARA, Great Pyramid of Giza, AAPS, Midwestern
          > Epigraphic Society...there are so many avenues for bringing together
          > evidence and well-thoughtout theory/possibilities//probabilities, and
          > the synergy which builds in mutual support and continuous input and
          > polite but constructive cristique.
          > Re; the Channel Islands article and photo or numerous artifacts, I know
          > we have at least two or three members from California not far from
          > there. One, in her first letter to the group, brought up artifacts she
          > had found along a coastline near her home. I am curious to hear further
          > results of her research.
          > Members, I appreciate when you post to the entire group. And when you
          > continue to support/respond to the submissions of others here. We are
          > basically self-moderating here so please keep posting to the group
          > articles, links, and information from your own observations and
          > experience about things ancient, especially those linked to waterways,
          > navigational routes, former shorelines near your home/part of the world,
          > areas you have traveled or researched --- information most of us would
          > never learn otherwise. Which can and could be brought together to form
          > larger, viable patterns that might even change history books and the way
          > we live and interact within the world....
          > I suggest that very similarly such experiences and personal details
          > were shared amongst ancient farers of riverways and oceans with
          > coastal/riverway dweller hosts....... around firesides, lodges worldwide
          > . Maybe even within the caverns mentioned above. I have always hoped
          > from membership within this diverse, global association...that in
          > learning to share and think like the ancients, we would do the same in
          > our intercommunications, persoal associations, and synergies with each
          > other. Perhaps even meet in pairs and small groups. As Fishtrap Bill
          > and Joe White Eagle did soon when they met at an ancient location in
          > Georgia. And our AWS gathering where over twenty spent a fairly
          > inexpensive four days together in cabins along a remote Lake Superior
          > copper country shoreline. The personal sharings and mutual support
          > within Posts and occasional hospitable gatherings, to me---as was done
          > for countless millinnea ---- is one of the greatest unwritten purposes
          > and reasons for having an international Ancient Waterways Society.
          > Thank you for your input and membership here,
          > Susan, a co-host and one of the founders....connecting people and
          > resources hoping to uncover more fully the larger picture and scope of
          > who we human beings really are...
          >
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, minnesotastan@
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Explorers cave-diving in the Yucatan have found a human skull in
          > > assocation with megafauna and mastodon bones. Radiocarbon dating is
          > > pending, but since the cave system flooded at the end of the
          > > Pleistocene, this skull will probably be the first human bone
          > confirmed
          > > to be pre-Clovis.
          > >
          > > Brief summary at TYWKIWDBI <http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/> ; more
          > > details at National Geographic
          > >
          > <http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2011/02/skul\
          > \
          > > l-in-mexico-cave-may-be-oldest-american-found.html> .
          > >
          >
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