Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Ancient Canal Builders website invitation

Expand Messages
  • bigalemc2
    I ve been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about. At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 15, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.

      At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.

      Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.

      One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.

      No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.

      There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.

      I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.

      But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.

      Come check it out.

      Steve
    • charles bruns
      Dear Steve   outstanding!!!  I spent a couple of years poling a johnboat around Flagler 1&2.  at that time (2003) locals told me it was relic of US Navy
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 16, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Steve
         
        outstanding!!!  I spent a couple of years poling a johnboat around Flagler 1&2.  at that time (2003) locals told me it was relic of US Navy operations on the intercoastal during WWII.  never 'dug' into that as currently mound looting is a capital offense or something in Florida.  actually the less said about it, the better.  anything i ran across megalithical was made out of concrete. my favorite area was located 1/4+ mile south of 100 on the main channel.  it was called 'Bottle Beach' & was the old dump site.  salty tides have dissolved everything but the glass.  Just one insite on one site by one member at one time in his life.  chb
        Pam - Spring on Laurentian Divide looks doable.  Boingo on the Orkeney Is.  that is exactly the progeny of MR (located NW of magnetic lake, which is NW of Gunflint Lake on the trail of the same name leading N from Grand Marais, MN).  Visibility?  As a past Land&Timber country employee, 'We make the forest look like we want, yah for sure.'
         
        --- On Tue, 11/16/10, bigalemc2 <puppet@...> wrote:

        From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Ancient Canal Builders website invitation
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 12:39 AM

         
        I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.

        At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.

        Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.

        One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.

        No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.

        There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.

        I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.

        But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.

        Come check it out.

        Steve


      • Rick O
        Steve, Chas and all, Dennis and I will be interviewing John about this topic. I ll post again as we get closer to the air date and provide details as to where
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Steve, Chas and all,

          Dennis and I will be interviewing John about this topic. I'll post again as we get closer to the air date and provide details as to where and how to listen / watch (yes, it's a TV show also).

          Oz

          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Steve
          >  
          > outstanding!!!  I spent a couple of years poling a johnboat around Flagler 1&2.  at that time (2003) locals told me it was relic of US Navy operations on the intercoastal during WWII.  never 'dug' into that as currently mound looting is a capital offense or something in Florida.  actually the less said about it, the better.  anything i ran across megalithical was made out of concrete. my favorite area was located 1/4+ mile south of 100 on the main channel.  it was called 'Bottle Beach' & was the old dump site.  salty tides have dissolved everything but the glass.  Just one insite on one site by one member at one time in his life.  chb
          >
          > Pam - Spring on Laurentian Divide looks doable.  Boingo on the Orkeney Is.  that is exactly the progeny of MR (located NW of magnetic lake, which is NW of Gunflint Lake on the trail of the same name leading N from Grand Marais, MN).  Visibility?  As a past Land&Timber country employee, 'We make the forest look like we want, yah for sure.'
          >  
          > --- On Tue, 11/16/10, bigalemc2 <puppet@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Ancient Canal Builders website invitation
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 12:39 AM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.
          >
          > At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.
          >
          > Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.
          >
          > One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.
          >
          > No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.
          >
          > There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.
          >
          > I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.
          >
          > But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.
          >
          > Come check it out.
          >
          > Steve
          >
        • Susan
          Steve, As one of our first members at Ancient Waterways, thanks for staying with us all these years. I too hope many AWS members add their input. I had a
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment

            Steve,

            As one of our first members at Ancient Waterways, thanks for staying with us all these  years.    I too hope many AWS members add their input.

            I had a second cataract/lens implant surgery yesterday afternoon, am not supposed to be on the computer yet...vision close to perfect already.  What a sight for sore eyes was your Post and introduction to the staggering discoveries and new Ancient Canal Builders site:  http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/ 

            Without a doubt I will be closely following John's and your research, and the blog. Thanks.   Susan

             

             


            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.
            >
            > At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.
            >
            > Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.
            >
            > One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.
            >
            > No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.
            >
            > There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.
            >
            > I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.
            >
            > But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.
            >
            > Come check it out.
            >
            > Steve
            >

          • bigalemc2
            Charles - Excellent stuff! You made me realize I needed a post on the blog which invites comments like yours. I just created it today, Would you mind putting
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 17, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Charles -

              Excellent stuff! You made me realize I needed a post on the blog which invites comments like yours. I just created it today,

              Would you mind putting this comment there?

              I will comment both here and there:

              You say there are some large stone structures at Flagler? Concrete, of course, implies 19th or 20th century, but still everything at these locations is something to be aware of. We can't expect there to be nothing modern, and identifying what clearly IS modern helps to get to the bottom of this. Navy operations will be something to look into. My first reaction is that they may have just been patrolling in the already existing canals, as part of coastal defense. But that is just speculation on my part at this point. We can't go on speculation, not without turning it into something verifiable.

              Steve


              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Steve
              >  
              > outstanding!!! I spent a couple of years poling a johnboat around Flagler 1&2. at that time (2003) locals told me it was relic of US Navy operations on the intercoastal during WWII. never 'dug' into that as currently mound looting is a capital offense or something in Florida. actually the less said about it, the better. anything i ran across megalithical was made out of concrete. my favorite area was located 1/4+ mile south of 100 on the main channel. it was called 'Bottle Beach' & was the old dump site. salty tides have dissolved everything but the glass. Just one insite on one site by one member at one time in his life.
              >
            • charles bruns
                   OMG.  someone asks me to put something somewhere?  However, have put two cents in before and proved the depth of my foolishness.  Ask Florida Navy
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 18, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                     OMG.  someone asks me to put something somewhere?  However, have put two cents in before and proved the depth of my foolishness.  Ask Florida Navy vets, there are even some still above ground from that era.  Flagler public library, the nice parkinglot in Flagler 2 and just south of 100 on the intercoastal, is another good source and has extentive raised walkways over these wetlands - worth a picnic-nice spot & free. 
                     My current vote for top attraction north of the Miami circle is Turtle Mound in TM state park which is where the shore road peters out south of New Smyrna Beach, south of Ponce Inlet  where the lighthouse is & Daytona Atlantic Ave. ends.  When you get to the nude beach at the park you have gone too far.  There is a state park fee.
                     These twin 'mounds' have the most excellent view of the eastern intercoastal I know of and coincided temporally with the flourishing of the Mayan culture (aprox. 500 AD) much further to the south.
                     While in Daytona, please remember the Hallifax Historical Museum, located on Beach Street near the Kress building downtown.  A dedicated staff rides herd on an eclectic assembly in which can be found a copper disc slightly larger than a quarter and twice as thick, which has a burst of round turquoise includions and a small hole in the center of the 'coin'.  bein unable to identify it, it is kept locked up as an annomally.  I suggest the source of this undocumented artifact can be traced to Tick Island, an Archaic settlement on the St. John's River just on the other side of Volusia County, FL near Ponce de Leon Springs.
                     Here is where he jumps off the cliff:  Were these sites part of the Old Copper Culuture* trade circle, coming to the New World by a northerly route to penetrate the continent and access the copper available in the western Great Lakes, then move it south to the Gulf of Mexico and Poverty Point, LA?  Waterlevels and shoreline could have been drastically different, Tick Is. literally an island instead of a penninsula, and a good stop for fresh water as traders left the New World to return east.  Have read a little about Miami Circle, never seen it, but aren't glyphs on it indicative of contact with Old World?  So much stuff coming in, will we recognize the patterns if we are looking at them?  chb
                 
                *The problem with epistemology is each of the blind men grabbing the elephant give it their own "nomenclature" - don't you just love it?  We can be as absfucational as we choose, right?  OCC merely describes a set of behaviors differring from others, saying 'culuture' defines how far this practice spread, and while the definition of human seems to include trade of one type or another (consider- "I will not hurt you if you do what I want." a prime motivator), there are many different styles. 
                I suggest that these people would have been called Beaker People in western Europe, North Atlantic Maritime at a butcher site on the shores, Red Ocher people on the east coast, and OCC when a copper point was lost in use or as grave goods.  With all these names which may point to differing activities in the year, is it possible for one individual to participates in several cultures?  ask your indian (feather) friends.
                Mine ask, "Why say some guy out of Greek legends came here and taught us how to make copper points?  Maybe we went there and showed THEM how."  Excellent point.  I will not dispute a Hiawatha traveling cross Gitchee Gummi and the big sea waters to the home of Hercules.  Personally I love the big guy, way too strong/horny/thirsty etc. who always ends up in trouble doing things the wrong way---I think we all know this fellow and thank goodness he seems to come out on top.  It's a Disney cartoon. 
                The center for the cult of Hercules, i read, was ancient Spain, just about as far from Troy as the Yucatan. 
                I will not doubt First Nation claims after recent discoveries in the Amazon of unknown great builders there.  We know so little beyond the brief glimpses of our Holy Books and others' myths.
                pardon my verbosity - a friend gave me some superb coffee.  chb       

                --- On Wed, 11/17/10, bigalemc2 <puppet@...> wrote:

                From: bigalemc2 <puppet@...>
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders website invitation
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 4:58 PM

                 
                Charles -

                Excellent stuff! You made me realize I needed a post on the blog which invites comments like yours. I just created it today,

                Would you mind putting this comment there?

                I will comment both here and there:

                You say there are some large stone structures at Flagler? Concrete, of course, implies 19th or 20th century, but still everything at these locations is something to be aware of. We can't expect there to be nothing modern, and identifying what clearly IS modern helps to get to the bottom of this. Navy operations will be something to look into. My first reaction is that they may have just been patrolling in the already existing canals, as part of coastal defense. But that is just speculation on my part at this point. We can't go on speculation, not without turning it into something verifiable.

                Steve

                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Steve
                >  
                > outstanding!!! I spent a couple of years poling a johnboat around Flagler 1&2. at that time (2003) locals told me it was relic of US Navy operations on the intercoastal during WWII. never 'dug' into that as currently mound looting is a capital offense or something in Florida. actually the less said about it, the better. anything i ran across megalithical was made out of concrete. my favorite area was located 1/4+ mile south of 100 on the main channel. it was called 'Bottle Beach' & was the old dump site. salty tides have dissolved everything but the glass. Just one insite on one site by one member at one time in his life.
                >


              • bigalemc2
                @Charles - Thanks for your input. We will be asking anyone we can find about the canals. Steve
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 21, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  @Charles -

                  Thanks for your input.

                  We will be asking anyone we can find about the canals.


                  Steve

                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >OMG.  someone asks me to put something somewhere?  However, have put two cents in before and proved the depth of my foolishness.  Ask Florida Navy vets, there are even some still above ground from that era. Flagler public library, the nice parkinglot in Flagler 2 and just south of 100 on the intercoastal, is another good source and has extentive raised walkways over these wetlands - worth a picnic-nice spot & free. 
                • Susan
                  I am glad to see some fine replies to Steve s letter and invitation for input of the new research group and blog....from Charles, Ted, William Connor, as well
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 23, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment

                    I am glad to see some fine replies to Steve's letter and invitation for input of the new research group and blog....from Charles, Ted, William Connor, as well interesting links submitted by Vince and MinnesotaStan that well relate to ancient navigation and waterway routes.

                    I tried to post a more detailed letter last night about my interest and at least ten days spent over two trips to the Miami Circle/Bay of Biscayne when hundreds of indiginous folks were staying on-site (and I in a sleazy hotel two blocks away) during early excavation before imminent domain was established and the giant DuPont Hotel project halted.  Vince's article sent to this group the other day mentioned Dr. Robert Carr, who was head archaeologist of the investigation taking place 'on the other side of the metal fence' from where we all were.  Even back a decade or so though long known that remains of countless civilizations over the millinnea rest under water, there still was little considerabtion ('considering the possibilities of....') among the various academic fields about drastic changes in water levels, shorelines, water routes/canals, etc. at particular significant sites. After I get better computer access, I will write more about my favorite pick of sites at the Miami Circle area....the large volume of 'boat' traffic I was told about by elders, shaman from Guatemala, Mexico/Yucatan, even into South America..."we all were there..." at that important site over a long, long period of time, even before the Tequesta layer of civilization that was being uncovered.  Not ruling out the possiblities of intra-continental sea traffic several millinnea ago, heavy boat traffic would create the necessity for the creation of wide, not very deep canals than it would the passage of large, heavy ships.  

                    In at least one of the links t Vince sent, archaeologist Robert Carr was mentioned.  I recall reading awhile back that Dr. Carr used the term "ancient canals", dated at least one site to 400 AD and possibly long before.  He was the head archaeologist at the Miami Circle dig when I flew down for a couple of visits just for the purpose of observing.  His assistant archaeologist spoke of the many layers of civilization evident to the dive team along the walls of the horridly polluted Bay of Biscayne yards from the ancient Circle. He said there was undoubtedly evidence far more ancient that had been covered over decades ago, resting forever beneath the parking lots of nearby major hotels.

                    Anyway, my personal trips to the Miami Circle and the fact that I was born near Miami during WWII (my dad was a bombardier) is one site I would focus my attention and assistance, if needed down there sometime for whatever reason other than financial.  My free airline "parent pass" is about to expire within the next few months because my son is leaving Delta for another job.

                    Here is a reply from Michael Cremo to my letter to him and a number of other non-AWS members that I sent to  Steve's and John Jensen's Ancient Canal Builders blog last night (beneath Ted Soja's fine commentary letter):

                    RE: http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/
                    November 22, 2010 7:15 PM
                    From: "Michael A. Cremo"
                    To: beldingenglish@...

                    Dear M. Susan English,

                    Thank you very much for acquainting me with this interesting case in American prehistory. I have looked over the links that you provided, and the issues to me are clear. The authors are proposing lots of canals and waterways built in ancient times, and critics are suggesting they are either natural features of the coastal areas or recent manmade features. It seems to me the authors realize that the issue will most likely be settled by on the ground research. I certainly have no preconceived notion that the authors are not correct in their analysis. They could be ancient waterways. As you say, I am extremely busy. So I am not going to be able to actively join in the research. But it will be interesting to see what happens as the research continues.

                    Sincerely yours,

                    Michael A. Cremo

                    -------------------------------

                    Subj: http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/
                    Date: 11/20/2010 11:28:26 AM Pacific Standard
                    From: beldingenglish@...
                    To: mail@...

                    Dear Michael,

                    I am a longstanding 'fan' of your work, books, etc., very much enjoyed the two hour Oopa Loopa Cafe radioblog interview you did a couple of years ago with Rick Osmon. Rick is a member of our Ancient Waterways Society yahoo group; he posted recently that he will be interviewing John Jensen soon on one of his radio programs.

                    AWS member Steve Garcia, a Chicago engineer who grew up near the Cahokia Mounds is a longtime close friend of David Hatcher Childress, Chris Dunn, Dr. John DeSalvo and many of the board members of the Great Pyramid of Giza Research Assoc. Steve has been actively involved with founder John Jenson and the Ancient Canal Builders in America team: http://www.ancientcanalbuilders.com/

                    This week, looking for input, Garcia and Jensen began the Ancient Canal Builder's blog: http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/
                    which was the reason behind his invitational post to our small Ancient Waterways web group:

                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/message/1913

                    I have little problem fathoming very, very ancient canals and that wide water routes existed thousands of years ago, or that those once of considerable depth would still be visible by such imagery as Google Earth. It is my hope you know of others who are able to keep open minds in studying satellite/GoogleEarth imagery, when scuba diving ancient water routes and shorelines.

                    Only one so far has subscribed to Garcia's and Jensen's Ancient Canal Builder's blog, and these are very bright fellows who take strong scientific and broad field, large picture views.

                    I know you are extremely busy, Mr. Cremo, but if anyone can evidence and /or consider the possibilities within some of the research of Jensen, Garcia, etc., it would be you.

                    Thank you for the courage and perserverance within your life's work.

                    Cordially,
                    M. Susan English, C. Wisconsin
                    a co-host at Ancient Waterways Society
                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/

                     

                     In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.
                    >
                    > At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.
                    >
                    > Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.
                    >
                    > One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.
                    >
                    > No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.
                    >
                    > There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.
                    >
                    > I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.
                    >
                    > But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.
                    >
                    > Come check it out.
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >

                  • Susan
                    As most of you know, engineer Steve Garcia from Ancient Waterways Society is an active member of the Ancient Canal Builders Research Team. Cascading below my
                    Message 9 of 26 , Apr 2, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment

                      As most of you know, engineer Steve Garcia from Ancient Waterways Society is an active member of the Ancient Canal Builders Research Team.  Cascading below my post, I am picking up Steve's initial 11/16/10  post informing us about the research group, plus a few other members' posts cascading below his.  I have utmost respect for the scientifc integrity of the group when they pulled back temporarily a few months ago to make changes in direction of their work.    

                      Being a Facebook friend of founder John Jensen, I am picking up on a message he posted today, and personally look forward to the book's completion. For many members here, take note of page 21 of the Overfiew on ancient Copper Mining-Michigan; I am CC'ing this to AAPS and a couple of other groups who host speaker conferences:

                      Ancient Canal Builders and the Atlantic Dispersion Theory

                      (Overview) 
                      - John Jensen Page 27 If you have information, documentation, photographs or other relevant materials, or would like to book John as a Guest Speaker, or interview; please contact us via our Contact Page.

                      Thank You, John Jensen and The Research Team.

                       
                      (main web site for group): www.ancientcanalbuilders.com
                      Good job Steve!
                      Susan

                      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to AW that I thought you should all know about.
                      >
                      > At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly more than one time period.
                      >
                      > Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.
                      >
                      > One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico. The patterns are very complex.
                      >
                      > No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.
                      >
                      > There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com site and then comment on the blog.
                      >
                      > I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't sure I should do.
                      >
                      > But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW would.
                      >
                      > Come check it out.
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >

                    • Rick O
                      As many of you will recall, we interviewed John Jensen last December about this topic, his research, and the web site on Unraveling the Secrets. Well, I
                      Message 10 of 26 , Apr 4, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        As many of you will recall, we interviewed John Jensen last December about this topic, his research, and the web site on Unraveling the Secrets. Well, I finally got the episode loaded to the archive.

                        http://www.soupmedianetwork.com/?p=1033 

                        Duration: 114 minutes. It takes a while to load, so please be patient.

                        Oz

                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > As most of you know, engineer Steve Garcia from Ancient Waterways
                        > Society is an active member of the Ancient Canal Builders Research Team.
                        > Cascading below my post, I am picking up Steve's initial 11/16/10 post
                        > informing us about the research group, plus a few other members' posts
                        > cascading below his. I have utmost respect for the scientifc integrity
                        > of the group when they pulled back temporarily a few months ago to make
                        > changes in direction of their work.
                        >
                        > Being a Facebook friend of founder John Jensen, I am picking up on a
                        > message he posted today, and personally look forward to the book's
                        > completion. For many members here, take note of page 21 of the Overfiew
                        > on ancient Copper Mining-Michigan; I am CC'ing this to AAPS and a couple
                        > of other groups who host speaker conferences:
                        >
                        > Ancient Canal Builders and the Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview) -
                        > John Jensen Page 27 If you have information, documentation, photographs
                        > or other relevant materials, or would like to book John as a Guest
                        > Speaker, or interview; please contact us via our Contact Page.
                        >
                        > Thank You, John Jensen and The Research Team.
                        > http://www.ancientcanalbuilders.com/ACB.Intro.pdf
                        > <http://www.ancientcanalbuilders.com/ACB.Intro.pdf> (main web site
                        > for group): www.ancientcanalbuilders.com
                        > <http://www.ancientcanalbuilders.com> Good job Steve! Susan
                        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                        > puppet@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I've been away for quite some time. I ran across something related to
                        > AW that I thought you should all know about.
                        > >
                        > > At www.ancientcanalbuilders.com you will find the darnedest thing - a
                        > huge system of canals all over the upper U.S. Gulf coast and eastern
                        > seaboard. It is possibly more than one system, actually, and possibly
                        > more than one time period.
                        > >
                        > > Some of the canals are up to 300 feet wide and 100 miles long. Some
                        > seem to be waterways and some appear to be irrigation canals. They
                        > extend all the way from Maine to Texas. The bayous of Louisiana being
                        > one major area, and Seabrook, NH is perhaps the largest one.
                        > >
                        > > One of the most amazing thing about these is that no one noticed them
                        > till now. John Jensen from Florida was browsing Google Earth looking for
                        > something else entirely, when he saw something that wasn't supposed to
                        > be there - straight canals, some extending out into the Gulf of Mexico.
                        > The patterns are very complex.
                        > >
                        > > No clear explanation for them comes to mind, though irrigation is one
                        > prominent one that is being explored. But irrigation does not require
                        > canals well over 100 feet wide and 25 feet deep.
                        > >
                        > > There is also a blog at http://ancientcanals.blogspot.com/, and you
                        > are all invited to acquaint yourselves at the ancientcanalbuilders.com
                        > site and then comment on the blog.
                        > >
                        > > I'd like to hear your take on all this. I've allowed myself to get
                        > shanghaied into creating and moderating the blog, something I wasn't
                        > sure I should do.
                        > >
                        > > But I figured if anyone had intelligent input the folks here at AW
                        > would.
                        > >
                        > > Come check it out.
                        > >
                        > > Steve
                        > >
                        >
                      • bigalemc2
                        Susan - I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen s Ancient Canal Builders project. In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I
                        Message 11 of 26 , Apr 4, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Susan -

                          I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                          Canal Builders project.

                          In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                          myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated all
                          my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                          anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                          were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                          after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.

                          The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                          coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.

                          I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                          exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                          the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches," dug
                          to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                          humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                          they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling around
                          on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and the
                          way the satellite images get flattened out.

                          All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                          evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided to
                          keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                          thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                        • james m clark jr
                          I ran across something simular just last year but the technological enhancements of even older imagery was more appealing than the claims. It would have been
                          Message 12 of 26 , Apr 4, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I ran across something simular just last year but the technological enhancements of even older imagery was more appealing than the claims.
                            It would have been more convincing if an old 35 mmm WW11 bomb spoting camera had been used and I had one.

                            jamey

                            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Susan -
                            >
                            > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                            > Canal Builders project.
                            >
                            > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                            > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated all
                            > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                            > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                            > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                            > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                            >
                            > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                            > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                            >
                            > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                            > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                            > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches," dug
                            > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                            > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                            > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling around
                            > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and the
                            > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                            >
                            > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                            > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided to
                            > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                            > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                            >
                          • Susan
                            Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost respect for you and
                            Message 13 of 26 , Apr 5, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Knock me over with a feather,  Steve; sorry I made the assumption you were still part of the Canalbuilders group.   I do have the utmost respect for you and what you  have articulated since I met you at a World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.  Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly because much of what you said seemed to ring true.

                              I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who created canals when portaging became too cumbersome... 

                              Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill. this June?  No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will announce it here when details come on the WEX site.  Main web site: http://wexclub.com/   I will go for sure if some of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.  Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his main home (clubhouse) and bookstore.  Fun, informal conference...

                              Susan

                               

                               

                              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Susan -
                              >
                              > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                              > Canal Builders project.
                              >
                              > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                              > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated all
                              > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                              > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                              > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                              > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                              >
                              > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                              > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                              >
                              > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                              > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                              > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches," dug
                              > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                              > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                              > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling around
                              > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and the
                              > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                              >
                              > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                              > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided to
                              > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                              > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                              >

                            • Vince
                              Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals. http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 13, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals.

                                http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals


                                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you
                                > were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                > respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                > World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore
                                > your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.
                                > Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                > night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly
                                > because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                >
                                > I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in
                                > 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                > created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                >
                                > Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill.
                                > this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                > announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                > http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if some
                                > of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.
                                > Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his
                                > main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                >
                                > Susan
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                > <puppet@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Susan -
                                > >
                                > > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                                > > Canal Builders project.
                                > >
                                > > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                > > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated
                                > all
                                > > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                                > > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                                > > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                                > > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                > >
                                > > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                                > > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                                > >
                                > > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                > > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                                > > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches,"
                                > dug
                                > > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                                > > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                                > > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                > around
                                > > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and
                                > the
                                > > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                > >
                                > > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                                > > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided
                                > to
                                > > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                > > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                > >
                                >
                              • TRAYLOROO
                                 Tell me that book about canals  ... it has an index...... Right?             CAL     ===========================
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 13, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                   Tell me that book about canals  ... it has an index...... Right?            
                                   
                                  CAL 
                                   
                                   ===========================
                                   
                                  From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
                                  To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
                                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders website & The Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview)

                                   
                                  Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals.

                                  http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals

                                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you
                                  > were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                  > respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                  > World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore
                                  > your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.
                                  > Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                  > night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly
                                  > because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                  >
                                  > I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in
                                  > 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                  > created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                  >
                                  > Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill.
                                  > this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                  > announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                  > http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if some
                                  > of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.
                                  > Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his
                                  > main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                  >
                                  > Susan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                  > <puppet@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Susan -
                                  > >
                                  > > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                                  > > Canal Builders project.
                                  > >
                                  > > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                  > > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated
                                  > all
                                  > > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                                  > > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                                  > > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                                  > > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                  > >
                                  > > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                                  > > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                                  > >
                                  > > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                  > > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                                  > > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches,"
                                  > dug
                                  > > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                                  > > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                                  > > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                  > around
                                  > > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and
                                  > the
                                  > > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                  > >
                                  > > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                                  > > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided
                                  > to
                                  > > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                  > > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                  > >
                                  >



                                • Vincent Barrows
                                  Yes that book has an index, which begins on on page 367. It is also visible in the link provided....
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 13, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yes that book has an index, which begins on on page 367. It is also visible in the link provided....


                                    ------------------------------
                                    On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 11:30 PM EST TRAYLOROO wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Tell me that book about canals  ... it has an index...... Right?            
                                    >
                                    >CAL 

                                    > ===========================
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >________________________________
                                    > From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
                                    >To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
                                    >Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders website & The Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    >
                                    >Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals.
                                    >
                                    >http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals
                                    >
                                    >--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you
                                    >> were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                    >> respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                    >> World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore
                                    >> your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.
                                    >> Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                    >> night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly
                                    >> because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                    >>
                                    >> I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in
                                    >> 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                    >> created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                    >>
                                    >> Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill.
                                    >> this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                    >> announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                    >> http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if some
                                    >> of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.
                                    >> Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his
                                    >> main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                    >>
                                    >> Susan
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                    >> <puppet@> wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Susan -
                                    >> >
                                    >> > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                                    >> > Canal Builders project.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                    >> > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated
                                    >> all
                                    >> > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                                    >> > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                                    >> > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                                    >> > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                                    >> > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                    >> > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                                    >> > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches,"
                                    >> dug
                                    >> > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                                    >> > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                                    >> > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                    >> around
                                    >> > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and
                                    >> the
                                    >> > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                                    >> > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided
                                    >> to
                                    >> > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                    >> > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • bigalemc2
                                    To all - Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts on Ancient Canal Builders and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I d like to
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 15, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      To all -

                                      Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.

                                      I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient about them at all.

                                      Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:

                                      John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.

                                      The IDEA of aquaculture in canals on marshland I DO think is not only a good one, but possibly a terrific source of nutrients and an efficient way of feeding a large population.  It would be flush-through, possibly even more so than modern fish farming, because nutrients come directly from rivers.

                                      However much I liked the idea, John's canals proved to not be what he thought they were.  They turned out to be three different types of modern canals/channels (in the order I found them out) - mosquito ditches, oil exploration canals for drilling platforms, and muskrat channels.

                                      On the other hand, looking at the book referenced, those are not the same thing, and without reading the book, I cannot have an opinion about them, other than hip shooting.

                                      I will make only one - mostly uninformed - observation, that the ones in Peru are in the areas of irrigation that have puzzled and impressed archeologists for a long time.  If so, irrigation canals are something different from what the 'Ancient Canal Builders' site is/was all about.

                                      Thanks for you patience, folks.


                                      Steve Garcia

                                      P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: 

                                      Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?

                                      S.

                                      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  Tell me that book about canals  ... it has an index...... Right?            
                                      >
                                      > CAL 
                                      >  
                                      >  ===========================
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: Vince v_barrows@...
                                      > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
                                      > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders website & The Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      > Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals.
                                      >
                                      > http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals
                                      >
                                      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" beldingenglish@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you
                                      > > were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                      > > respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                      > > World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore
                                      > > your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.
                                      > > Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                      > > night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly
                                      > > because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                      > >
                                      > > I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in
                                      > > 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                      > > created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                      > >
                                      > > Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill.
                                      > > this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                      > > announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                      > > http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if some
                                      > > of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.
                                      > > Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his
                                      > > main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                      > >
                                      > > Susan
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                      > > <puppet@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Susan -
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                                      > > > Canal Builders project.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                      > > > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated
                                      > > all
                                      > > > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                                      > > > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                                      > > > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                                      > > > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                                      > > > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                      > > > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                                      > > > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches,"
                                      > > dug
                                      > > > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                                      > > > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                                      > > > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                      > > around
                                      > > > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and
                                      > > the
                                      > > > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                                      > > > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided
                                      > > to
                                      > > > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                      > > > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Ted Sojka
                                      Thought on canals and lagoons and the future. The author of the book. Alcohol is a Gas was on the air last night and said that cattails were many times more
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 15, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thought on canals and lagoons and the future.  

                                        The author of the book. "Alcohol is a Gas" was on the air last night and said that cattails were many times more efficient than corn in making ethanol.   It also purified waste water in sewage lagoons while turning the fluids into starch and sugar.  He said the Roman solider was paid in pieces of cattail stalks.  

                                        Cattail wine can be distilled into cattail brandy and into fuel to run your car.  E 85 cars could be adjusted to run on fuel made on your farm or acreage.  Wish I had a swamp on my property, but he said you could use drier soil and the plant and use the roots also, to make the alcohol.  The largest crop that is irrigated in the US is lawn.  Unfortunately it is tough stuff to turn into fuel.  Every town could do with cattails in their sewage lagoons.  Some folks that have wetland could easily grow more cattails on it.  Someone made a joke that Minnesota alone probably could power the country with their more than ten thousand lakes.

                                        He also talked about a small town in Germany that went completely off the grid for self sufficient energy.  Their surplus energy value last year was over 3 million dollars.  They had no government help and decided to do that as a town!  

                                        Ted
                                        On Feb 15, 2012, at 11:32 AM, bigalemc2 wrote:

                                         

                                        To all -

                                        Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.

                                        I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient about them at all.

                                        Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:

                                        John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.

                                        The IDEA of aquaculture in canals on marshland I DO think is not only a good one, but possibly a terrific source of nutrients and an efficient way of feeding a large population.  It would be flush-through, possibly even more so than modern fish farming, because nutrients come directly from rivers.

                                        However much I liked the idea, John's canals proved to not be what he thought they were.  They turned out to be three different types of modern canals/channels (in the order I found them out) - mosquito ditches, oil exploration canals for drilling platforms, and muskrat channels.

                                        On the other hand, looking at the book referenced, those are not the same thing, and without reading the book, I cannot have an opinion about them, other than hip shooting.

                                        I will make only one - mostly uninformed - observation, that the ones in Peru are in the areas of irrigation that have puzzled and impressed archeologists for a long time.  If so, irrigation canals are something different from what the 'Ancient Canal Builders' site is/was all about.

                                        Thanks for you patience, folks.


                                        Steve Garcia

                                        P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: 

                                        Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?

                                        S.

                                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  Tell me that book about canals  ... it has an index...... Right?            
                                        >
                                        > CAL 
                                        >  
                                        >  ===========================
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Vince v_barrows@...
                                        > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
                                        > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders website & The Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        > Please see the following link for native American contributions regarding canals.
                                        >
                                        > http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals
                                        >
                                        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" beldingenglish@ wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption you
                                        > > were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                        > > respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                        > > World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years ago....adore
                                        > > your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost integrity.
                                        > > Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                        > > night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made, mainly
                                        > > because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                        > >
                                        > > I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been people in
                                        > > 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                        > > created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                        > >
                                        > > Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in Ill.
                                        > > this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                        > > announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                        > > http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if some
                                        > > of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast nearby.
                                        > > Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has his
                                        > > main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                        > >
                                        > > Susan
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                        > > <puppet@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Susan -
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's Ancient
                                        > > > Canal Builders project.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                        > > > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I communicated
                                        > > all
                                        > > > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the project
                                        > > > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish they
                                        > > > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly, but
                                        > > > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the Gulf
                                        > > > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern Seaboard.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                        > > > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned that
                                        > > > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito ditches,"
                                        > > dug
                                        > > > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable for
                                        > > > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the channels
                                        > > > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                        > > around
                                        > > > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth and
                                        > > the
                                        > > > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw the
                                        > > > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has decided
                                        > > to
                                        > > > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                        > > > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >


                                      • Susan
                                        Steve, Vince and All, I try to be careful what headings and cascading posts I use when posting---- especially when replying to messages of other members here.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 15, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Steve, Vince and All,

                                          I try to be careful what headings and cascading posts I use when posting---- especially when replying to messages of other members here.  I do occasionally resurrect old Posts and subject headings I believe hold merit or of may be of interest to a group such as ours.  Occasionally to support new material under a previously used subject heading, which I sometimes alter.  But i usually make reference to the older date. when including the cascade of older posts within an older thread on the same topic.  As I did last week when re-posting Jim Scherz' 'Old World Units of Measure....' MES article with his and Pam's 2009 supporting posts.  The reposting spawned the sharing of similar avenues of commendable research by Ross Hamilton, Larry Hancock, Vince Barrows, and hopefully,  ongoing commentary when this subject arises again.  So many old posts from this group exemplify dozens of individual members sharing years of insights and carefully documented reports (oftentimes unpatented) to public scrutiny.  Which demonstrate, to me, humility and courage perhaps inherent within the potential synergy of collaborative 'avocational' research.  And boosting the development of comprehensive,  broad-field research based upon scientific method.

                                          Steve,  you will see in the undated (April, 2011) post under Vince's recent post that I did take your word for the "canals" not being ancient.  Though for awhile, without comment to this group,  continued to follow The ACB web site and John Johnson's Facebook comments (I believe both are still active).  I started finding my own concerns within their work and the direction(s) they were, and may still be taking.   I also did Anot resurrect the Ancient Canal Builders posts, including my own,  from a year ago.  Yet I can  understand why Vince did when, in his post earlier this month, he brought in new material---a link on Native American canals--after undoubtedly doing a diligent search into the nearly 3000 AWS archived posts to find the old thread which included at least a dozen posts on ancient canals, titled under the "Ancient Canal Builders" heading.  Unfortunately, when lifting and writing atop old posts,  YahooGroup's  format does not include the dates of old posts.  So, my undated old post from a year ago beneath Vince's recent post looks as though it is current.  Then, two or three others replied, all under the heading of Ancient Canal Builders.  (i need to add that the Spring, 2011 "Ancient Canal Builders" heading  also included posts on subjects such as the alleged Viking ship-Tisch Mills site near Lake Michigan,  which should have had its own heading!)

                                           I am all for bringing back old posts, especially because the YahooGroup Search Bar only goes back a year or so.  Many excellent, yet seemingly irretrievable posts, links, articles are very difficult to find amidst the archives of our group's several years.  Not intending to make a big deal of this matter, it may well serve to caution us all to pay heed to the headings and subject matter we are posting under. 

                                          Ted, very good letter to the Ohio newsletter and mounds groups.  Thank you also for submitting a couple more drawings.  I hope you are extending your fine artwork, experience and writings beyond these groups and further into the mainstream.

                                          Larry Hancock's initial post without the link to his NEARA article sent me to that site searching for it.  Which reminded me to mention here that one of our members, Terry Deveau from Halifax, Nova Scotia is webmaster of the large New England Antiquities Research Association.  I am including their main link and a mention that their Spring Meeting (conference?) is April 20-22, 2012 in Concord, New Hampshire.  http://www.neara.org/

                                          Larry had also submitted links to a 4 or 5 section report he wrote on  Ancient Vermont.  James Clark posted recently he was working on getting the immense report (with dozens of photos and illustrations) into our Links or Files section. I hope you will let us know when that occurs because, when clicking into the "1 New File (or Link)" notice that appears for one week  on our Home Page, we are brought to the main page.  Then have to search through all the files or links to find the new addition.  Another small flaw of the YahooGroup format!

                                          I earlier meant to post earlier my appreciation, Steve Garcia, for your candor once again in the Jan. 12, 2012 Post #2667 -- under the ANCIENT CHEROKEE ORIGINS heading.  You express from your experience a significant area of thought--and conscience--on the subject.  The straightforwardness of your last line really impacted me.  

                                          Please continue to post related events.   I don't like to over-post here.   Thanks again for all if your sharings and polite expression of oftentimes very diverse areas of research and personal viewpoints.

                                          Susan

                                          Sent from my iPad

                                          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2" <puppet@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > To all -
                                          >
                                          > Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts
                                          > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                          > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                          > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                          >
                                          > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                          > something amazing. But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                          > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern. Nothing ancient
                                          > about them at all.
                                          >
                                          > Please trust me on this, Susan. I probably have to be as much of an
                                          > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                          >
                                          > John Jensen's canals are not ancient. Period.
                                          >
                                          > The IDEA of aquaculture in canals on marshland I DO think is not only a
                                          > good one, but possibly a terrific source of nutrients and an efficient
                                          > way of feeding a large population. It would be flush-through, possibly
                                          > even more so than modern fish farming, because nutrients come directly
                                          > from rivers.
                                          >
                                          > However much I liked the idea, John's canals proved to not be what he
                                          > thought they were. They turned out to be three different types of
                                          > modern canals/channels (in the order I found them out) - mosquito
                                          > ditches, oil exploration canals for drilling platforms, and muskrat
                                          > channels.
                                          >
                                          > On the other hand, looking at the book referenced, those are not the
                                          > same thing, and without reading the book, I cannot have an opinion about
                                          > them, other than hip shooting.
                                          >
                                          > I will make only one - mostly uninformed - observation, that the ones in
                                          > Peru are in the areas of irrigation that have puzzled and impressed
                                          > archeologists for a long time. If so, irrigation canals are something
                                          > different from what the 'Ancient Canal Builders' site is/was all about.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for you patience, folks.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Steve Garcia
                                          >
                                          > P.S. NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one:
                                          >
                                          > Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put
                                          > these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?
                                          >
                                          > S.
                                          >
                                          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO
                                          > trayloroo@ wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >  Tell me that book about canals ... it has an index......
                                          > Right?           Â
                                          > >
                                          > > CALÂ
                                          > > Â
                                          > > Â ===========================
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ________________________________
                                          > > From: Vince v_barrows@
                                          > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
                                          > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders
                                          > website & The Atlantic Dispersion Theory (Overview)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Â
                                          > >
                                          > > Please see the following link for native American contributions
                                          > regarding canals.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=QIFTVWJH3doC&q=Canals
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan"
                                          > beldingenglish@ wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Knock me over with a feather, Steve; sorry I made the assumption
                                          > you
                                          > > > were still part of the Canalbuilders group. I do have the utmost
                                          > > > respect for you and what you have articulated since I met you at a
                                          > > > World Explorers Club Conf. in Central Illinois many years
                                          > ago....adore
                                          > > > your dialogues at these web sites, your keen mind, and utmost
                                          > integrity.
                                          > > > Your ideas about 'glaciers' in posts a few years ago kept me awake a
                                          > > > night or two trying to understand assumptions I'd always made,
                                          > mainly
                                          > > > because much of what you said seemed to ring true.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I will nevertheless keep an open mind that there may have been
                                          > people in
                                          > > > 'ancient' rather than early historic times within the Americas who
                                          > > > created canals when portaging became too cumbersome...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Are you going to attend the upcoming World Explorers Conference in
                                          > Ill.
                                          > > > this June? No speakers listed yet but I am thinking of it and will
                                          > > > announce it here when details come on the WEX site. Main web site:
                                          > > > http://wexclub.com/ <http://wexclub.com/> I will go for sure if
                                          > some
                                          > > > of the members from this group go there...cute Bed and Breakfast
                                          > nearby.
                                          > > > Is held in a tiny farm town of 246 where David Hatcher Childress has
                                          > his
                                          > > > main home (clubhouse) and bookstore. Fun, informal conference...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Susan
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "bigalemc2"
                                          > > > <puppet@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Susan -
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I need to inform you that I am no longer part of John Jensen's
                                          > Ancient
                                          > > > > Canal Builders project.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In investigating the sources of the canals John found, I satisfied
                                          > > > > myself that there were modern explanations for them. I
                                          > communicated
                                          > > > all
                                          > > > > my findings to John, and he has chosen to continue on with the
                                          > project
                                          > > > > anyway. But I am content that the canals are not ancient. I wish
                                          > they
                                          > > > > were, but I don't think so. It was worth looking into, certainly,
                                          > but
                                          > > > > after looking closely at it, I have to disagree with John.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The two main types of canals were the long straight ones in the
                                          > Gulf
                                          > > > > coastal areas and the "irrigation" ones along the Eastern
                                          > Seaboard.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I learned that the long wide ones in the Gulf were dredged for oil
                                          > > > > exploration, mostly in the middle of the 20th century. I learned
                                          > that
                                          > > > > the "irrigation" ones on the Atlantic coast were "mosquito
                                          > ditches,"
                                          > > > dug
                                          > > > > to control mosquitos and make the Atlantic coast more habitable
                                          > for
                                          > > > > humans. The "symbols" turned out to be muskrat dens and the
                                          > channels
                                          > > > > they "dug" because they get around better in water than waddling
                                          > > > around
                                          > > > > on land. The "symbols" were totally an artifact of Google Earth
                                          > and
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > way the satellite images get flattened out.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > All these explanations came as surprises to me, but after I saw
                                          > the
                                          > > > > evidence I was convinced. I am really surprised that John has
                                          > decided
                                          > > > to
                                          > > > > keep going on this, because I don't see there is anything to it. I
                                          > > > > thought so, but now I don't. Facts convinced me.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • minnesotastan@yahoo.com
                                          P.S. NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 16, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            "P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?"

                                            Susan and Vince and I are what are loosely termed "moderators" on this board (we don't do much actual "moderating" - more erasing of spam).  In answer to your question, I don't know of any way to alter old threads other than just deleting them, and personally I don't have time to go back and "clean up" the board regarding the various erroneous materials that have been posted. 

                                            But I do remember the posting of the "ancient canal builders" perhaps a year or two ago, and I quite agree that it has been shown that the canals along the Eastern and Gulf shorelines are modern constructions - not evidence of an pre-contact society.

                                            Stan



                                            > Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts
                                            > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                            > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                            > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                            >
                                            > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                            > something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                            > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient
                                            > about them at all.
                                            >
                                            > Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an
                                            > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                            >
                                            > John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.
                                          • TRAYLOROO
                                            A SUGGESTION  RE  MOVING POSTS TO A NEW THREAD =   Click FORWARD on the old thread Then highlight what you want to move - and leave it highlighted put
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 16, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              A SUGGESTION  RE  MOVING POSTS TO A NEW THREAD =
                                               
                                              Click FORWARD on the old thread
                                              Then highlight what you want to move - and leave it highlighted
                                              put cursor on highlighed area and click   COPY
                                              Close the old thread
                                               
                                              Open a new thread and in  SUBJECT  line give it a NAME
                                              then put cursor in text area and click   PASTE
                                              and supposedly all you highlighted will  PASTE  into new text
                                              then hit SEND
                                               
                                              Then I will check your new thread when it arrives here.
                                               
                                              Cheers
                                               
                                              Cousin Cal (AKA Cuz Cal)
                                              Cousin? According to DNA regression theory, somewhere between now and back 220,000 years .... our family branches will merge into the trunk of the tree. That includes every bipedal humanoid on earth today, Cuz.
                                               
                                               =========================
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                              From: "minnesotastan@..." <minnesotastan@...>
                                              To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:32 PM
                                              Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders

                                               

                                              "P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?"

                                              Susan and Vince and I are what are loosely termed "moderators" on this board (we don't do much actual "moderating" - more erasing of spam).  In answer to your question, I don't know of any way to alter old threads other than just deleting them, and personally I don't have time to go back and "clean up" the board regarding the various erroneous materials that have been posted. 

                                              But I do remember the posting of the "ancient canal builders" perhaps a year or two ago, and I quite agree that it has been shown that the canals along the Eastern and Gulf shorelines are modern constructions - not evidence of an pre-contact society.

                                              Stan



                                              > Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last
                                              posts
                                              > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                              > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                              > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                              >
                                              > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                              > something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                              > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient
                                              > about them at all.
                                              >
                                              > Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an
                                              > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                              >
                                              > John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.


                                            • Vincent Barrows
                                              Native American contributions to modern society included canal technology, a point That the referenced book makes. This point recognizes much more Fundamental
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 18, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Native American contributions to modern society included canal technology, a point
                                                That the referenced book makes. This point recognizes much more
                                                Fundamental gift if the
                                                Native canal building invention,  and does purport to claim that all Canals Were built by natives.
                                                The canals that were discussed in the book about native American contributions to modern society confirms that canals were created, used, and maintained Among ancient native American cultures.  It is notable that without the native American contribution, modern culture would not have such advanced canals to use. This is as
                                                Fundamental as acknowledging that the ancient native
                                                American inventors of The concept Of canals are owed the acknowledgement for
                                                Their important contribution to modern society. Native Americans
                                                also gave us moderns notable
                                                contributions such ad Corn And tobacco, and this message motions to give credit to the ancient native American engineers who contributed canal Technology. To Not allow such credit would be like claiming we invented corn and Tobacco.


                                                From: minnesotastan@... <minnesotastan@...>;
                                                To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders
                                                Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 3:32:54 AM

                                                 


                                                "P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?"

                                                Susan and Vince and I are what are loosely termed "moderators" on this board (we don't do much actual "moderating" - more erasing of spam).  In answer to your question, I don't know of any way to alter old threads other than just deleting them, and personally I don't have time to go back and "clean up" the board regarding the various erroneous materials that have been posted. 

                                                But I do remember the posting of the "ancient canal builders" perhaps a year or two ago, and I quite agree that it has been shown that the canals along the Eastern and Gulf shorelines are modern constructions - not evidence of an pre-contact society.

                                                Stan



                                                > Since her
                                                response is still showing up prominently in these last posts
                                                > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                                > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                                > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                                >
                                                > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                                > something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                                > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient
                                                > about them at all.
                                                >
                                                > Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an
                                                > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                                >
                                                > John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.

                                              • Ted Sojka
                                                Hello all, I am sure the ditches that were discussed on this site last year that showed up on google earth images, are not ancient. But, It seems to me, in
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 18, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment

                                                  Hello all, 
                                                  I am sure the ditches that were discussed on this site last year that showed up on google earth images, are not ancient.  But, It seems to me, in the 4 corners region of states, there are irrigated fields that were used by the Asnazzi, Hopi, and Navajo, to use river water diverted to fields alongside the rivers.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?  I was taught that this allowed for farming in that dry area which allowed people to live in this places and grow abundances of food.

                                                  I have seen images of the ancient roads or trails that connect many of the sites which are created by removing stones from the desert floor and placing them along these walkways in long straight lines. Obviously they had survey techniques that allowed them to create these on the face of the earth.  

                                                  The discussion on this site led to the conclusion that the East Coast canals were later mosquito ditches dug much later than ancient times.  This was good for the group.  
                                                  ted

                                                  On Feb 18, 2012, at 2:48 AM, Vincent Barrows wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Native American contributions to modern society included canal technology, a point
                                                  That the referenced book makes. This point recognizes much more
                                                  Fundamental gift if the
                                                  Native canal building invention,  and does purport to claim that all Canals Were built by natives.
                                                  The canals that were discussed in the book about native American contributions to modern society confirms that canals were created, used, and maintained Among ancient native American cultures.  It is notable that without the native American contribution, modern culture would not have such advanced canals to use. This is as
                                                  Fundamental as acknowledging that the ancient native
                                                  American inventors of The concept Of canals are owed the acknowledgement for
                                                  Their important contribution to modern society. Native Americans
                                                  also gave us moderns notable
                                                  contributions such ad Corn And tobacco, and this message motions to give credit to the ancient native American engineers who contributed canal Technology. To Not allow such credit would be like claiming we invented corn and Tobacco.



                                                  From: minnesotastan@... <minnesotastan@...>;
                                                  To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders
                                                  Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 3:32:54 AM

                                                   


                                                  "P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?"

                                                  Susan and Vince and I are what are loosely termed "moderators" on this board (we don't do much actual "moderating" - more erasing of spam).  In answer to your question, I don't know of any way to alter old threads other than just deleting them, and personally I don't have time to go back and "clean up" the board regarding the various erroneous materials that have been posted. 

                                                  But I do remember the posting of the "ancient canal builders" perhaps a year or two ago, and I quite agree that it has been shown that the canals along the Eastern and Gulf shorelines are modern constructions - not evidence of an pre-contact society.

                                                  Stan



                                                  > Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts
                                                  > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                                  > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                                  > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                                  >
                                                  > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                                  > something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                                  > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient
                                                  > about them at all.
                                                  >
                                                  > Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an
                                                  > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                                  >
                                                  > John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.



                                                • Vincent Barrows
                                                  Once again, all canals are NOT ancient, but the canal technology was originally invented by Native Americans. It should be noted that some ancient canals have
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Feb 18, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Once again, all canals are NOT ancient, but the canal technology was originally invented by Native Americans. It should be noted that some ancient canals have survived to modern day. These prehistoric canals include: Florida's Ortona canoe canals, snaketown canals in arizona canals, and Aztec village canals, among others.  There is an article in the group files about the snaketown canals. Floridas canals in central florida are well accepted as ancient native american contributions.
                                                     
                                                    The amount of ancient canals that may have existed in the midwest and east coast, but were destroyed through a series of later canal building events (including mosquito drainage canals) is also unknown and lost forever.
                                                     

                                                    From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
                                                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:19 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders
                                                     

                                                    Hello all, 
                                                    I am sure the ditches that were discussed on this site last year that showed up on google earth images, are not ancient.  But, It seems to me, in the 4 corners region of states, there are irrigated fields that were used by the Asnazzi, Hopi, and Navajo, to use river water diverted to fields alongside the rivers.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?  I was taught that this allowed for farming in that dry area which allowed people to live in this places and grow abundances of food.

                                                    I have seen images of the ancient roads or trails that connect many of the sites which are created by removing stones from the desert floor and placing them along these walkways in long straight lines. Obviously they had survey techniques that allowed them to create these on the face of the earth.  

                                                    The discussion on this site led to the conclusion that the East Coast canals were later mosquito ditches dug much later than ancient times.  This was good for the group.  
                                                    ted
                                                    On Feb 18, 2012, at 2:48 AM, Vincent Barrows wrote:
                                                     
                                                    Native American contributions to modern society included canal technology, a point t hat the referenced book makes. This point recognizes much more f undamental gift of the Native canal building invention,  and does not purport to claim that all Canals Were built by natives.  The canals that were discussed in the book about native American contributions to modern society confirms that canals were created, used, and maintained Among ancient Native American cultures.  It is notable that without the native American contribution, modern culture would not have such advanced canals to use. This is as f undamental as acknowledging that the ancient native American inventors of the concept Of canals are owed the acknowledgement for t heir important contribution to modern society. Native Americans also gave us moderns notable contributions such as Corn And tobacco, and this message motions to give credit to the ancient native American engineers who contributed canal Technology. To Not allow such credit would be like claiming that we invented corn and Tobacco.
                                                    From: minnesotastan@... <minnesotastan@...>;
                                                    To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                    Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders
                                                    Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 3:32:54 AM
                                                     

                                                    "P.S.  NOTE TO MODERATOR, if we have one: Is there any way to close out this Ancient Canal Builders thread and put these last two or three comments on a differently titled thread?"

                                                    Susan and Vince and I are what are loosely termed "moderators" on this board (we don't do much actual "moderating" - more erasing of spam).  In answer to your question, I don't know of any way to alter old threads other than just deleting them, and personally I don't have time to go back and "clean up" the board regarding the various erroneous materials that have been posted. 

                                                    But I do remember the posting of the "ancient canal builders" perhaps a year or two ago, and I quite agree that it has been shown that the canals along the Eastern and Gulf shorelines are modern constructions - not evidence of an pre-contact society.

                                                    Stan



                                                    > Since her response is still showing up prominently in these last posts
                                                    > on 'Ancient Canal Builders' and the Atlantic Dispersion Overview, I'd
                                                    > like to reiterate to Susan and to everyone else that John Jensen's
                                                    > Ancient Canal Builders site turned out to be wrong, flat out.
                                                    >
                                                    > I had joined up with John, and was all excited at his having found
                                                    > something amazing.  But, right in the middle of proving they were not
                                                    > modern, I found out that his WERE, in fact, modern.  Nothing ancient
                                                    > about them at all.
                                                    >
                                                    > Please trust me on this, Susan.  I probably have to be as much of an
                                                    > expert on this as anyone can be, and take my word for it:
                                                    >
                                                    > John Jensen's canals are not ancient.  Period.
                                                  • Deb Twigg
                                                    Sorry - new to this thread - but those of you interested might want to look into the HOHOKAM for ancient water diversion techniques in the southwest. Hope this
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Feb 18, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Sorry - new to this thread - but those of you interested might want to look into the HOHOKAM for ancient water diversion techniques in the southwest. Hope this is helpful.

                                                      Deb Twigg
                                                      Executive Director
                                                      SRAC
                                                      607-727-3111
                                                      www.SRACenter.org
                                                    • TRAYLOROO
                                                      ANCIENT  CANALS  PERU --- much data if you use that as an Internet search question.  Example:    Evidence Found for Canals That Watered Ancient Peru -
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Feb 18, 2012
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                         
                                                        ANCIENT  CANALS  PERU --- much data if you use that as an Internet search question.  Example:   
                                                        [Jan 3, 2006] RUNNING WATER The sites of ancient irrigation canals. People in Peru's Zaña Valley dug the canals as early as 6,700 years ago to divert river water 
                                                         
                                                        Cal
                                                        ================          

                                                         
                                                        From: Deb Twigg <deb_twigg@...>
                                                        To: "ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com" <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:09 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ancient Canal Builders

                                                         
                                                        Sorry - new to this thread - but those of you interested might want to look into the HOHOKAM for ancient water diversion techniques in the southwest. Hope this is helpful.

                                                        Deb Twigg
                                                        Executive Director
                                                        SRAC
                                                        607-727-3111
                                                        www.SRACenter.org


                                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.