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Driftless Area Mounds as puzzle pieces; Welcome new member

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  • Susan
    Welcome to Judith (mareev_zehavi ) from Oakland, California who joined our group last week; we now have several
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 25, 2010
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      Welcome to Judith (mareev_zehavi) from Oakland, California who joined our group last week; we now have several members from California and the western US Coast.  Please email me if you did not receive the newcomer greeting letter, Judity.  

      Chris, as busy as you have been, thank you for sharing time and unique talents in your Timeline and thought-provoking post.  For those who had difficulty as I in reading the small print, I enlarged Chris' letter and Ted's interesting article below that preceded her response.  

      Congratulations to Joe Sitting Owl White, Chief of the Central Band of Cherokee (Tennessee) for his two excellent articles in the current Special Edition issue of Ancient American Magazine: DNA and the Cheokee in North America.  The Ancient Waterways Society and a number of members from this group involved in the project were mentioned in the issue. 

      http://www.facebook.com/pages/Colfax-WI/Ancient-American-Magazine-Archeology-of-the-Americas-Before-Columbus/189002950786?v=photos#!/pages/Colfax-WI/Ancient-American-Magazine-Archeology-of-the-Americas-Before-Columbus/189002950786?v=wall

      Below is a link to the Oopa Loopa Cafe interview that host Rick Osmon did a few months ago of Joe White, which I believe I listed previously.  The magazine issue and two hour Oopa Loopa Cafe interview very well details the ten years of intensive research, cooperative efforts by many, and very recent, exciting results.   

      http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-white-and-the-jubilee-stone

      Keep the posts, sharing of information, and updates coming in.  My reading and on-line time are greatly restricted again, so please continue to encourae and supoport each other here at this site.  I know there are many similarly related Yahoo and other groups, informational, and Facebook sites;  perhaps down the road this group may become unnecessary.  In the meantime, thanks to this diverse membership all for your efforts, and especially, to me, those where you are working and sharing with others.

      Susan

       

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:

      Hi guys,
      I picked this almost randomly out of my 200+ backlog of e-mail/postings. There would seem to be, again, a blind spot in the researcher's speculations. That of the diffusional element. As collegiate trained researchers, they are not allowed to even think that there may have been contact with other people; which may have been causing a stress element in the native population base.

      Timeline... Vikings     http://www.viking.no/e/etimeline.htm 

      981 CE Vikings reach Greenland

      986   Newfoundland being explored

      1000  Christian or not, the Scands are spreading down coast

      1010  Reports have survived of at least one person attempting to start American settlement... how many other 'attempts' may have been semi-successful (and not been kept to written record) allowing a limited contact into the trade network of the indigenous Americans? We cannot assume L'anse Aux Meadows to be Vinland, as even i think those were two different places. If we have two settlements of the new lands, then there is no telling how many others there were which did not get registered in "history".

      1015  Vikings abandon Vinland settlement on EAST coast. By then, how many internal contacts from Hudson Bay & up the Nelson River access were there? Settlements do not have to be established for disease, germs and viruses to be transmitted. If the coasts were being energetically explored, certainly the Mississippi had been found in the next 40 yrs. Timeline targeted to send infections up into the Mounds Cultures from South, down from the North and in from the East.

      By the 1030's the people may have been dying of population decreases due to reproductive infections. Depicting pregnant deer may have been a prayer for their own babies to live and thrive, not be aborted, stillborn or blemished from STD's.

      In the native Cultural training i have had, Deer was associated with fertility, sex appeal, even sexual addiction to the downfall of some young men. A cautionary tale among the Siouxan traditions warns young men not to be lured into the forests by the irresistably gorgeous Deerwoman, who would lead them down a path of thoughtless distraction and get him lost or killed because he failed to pay attention to the basic hazards or needs of proper living.

      Without knowing what the PEOPLE who painted the deer were thinking, we cannot apply our ignorant values to an image when found in a ceremonial setting. A deer was SO much more than 'just meat'. Deer Spirit held extremely complex philosophical, social, physical and religious implications to all Natives. We cannot ascribe everything we simply don't understand to 'primitive mojo' or 'hunting magic'. The truth is very much more complicated.

      That the population was under social and resource pressures, yes we can say that from the archaeological digs. If we do not allow the presence of outsiders to be a factor in the impacts being applied, then we prevent ourselves from exploring alternate solutions to the mystery. We meet a dead end with nowhere else to go, throw up our hands and quit looking. The day you stop searching, you will find nothing else.

      -chris

      --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote: 


      From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Why the mounds the Drift less area are a major piece of the puzzle
      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 10:46 AM

      There are pictures on the MVAC 
      CVES >>>

      Finding A Lost Society
      Uw-lacrosse Archaeologists Research The Demise Of The Effigy Mounds Culture.

      Wisconsin State Journal :: LOCAL :: C1

      Wednesday, September 13, 2006
      RON SEE$LY rseely@...

      608-252-6131

      On a summer afternoon in 1998, UW-La Crosse archaeologist Robert "Ernie" Boszhardt descended into the darkness of a southwestern Wisconsin cave rumored to harbor paintings and artifacts left by people of the ancient Effigy Mounds culture.
      Boszhardt was not expecting much. Such whispered stories of archaeological treasure are common but often turn out to be modern-day graffiti, the "artifacts" actually debris from teenage parties. With the light from the cave's low and narrow entrance fading to dusk behind him, Boszhardt saw plenty of that: doused campfires, scattered beer cans.
      But as he went deeper, into larger and completely darkened rooms, he saw in the beam of his flashlight half-burned birch bark torches scattered on the floor and ghostly images of animals migrating across the stone walls. Eventually he found himself facing a wall upon which was drawn an entire herd of deer -- many of the females pregnant, with tiny fawns drawn carefully inside of them -- being hunted by figures wielding bows and arrows.
      Boszhardt had little idea then that the painting he found in Tainter Cave would help solve a long-standing archaeological mystery. Its story of a long-ago deer hunt would help explain the relatively sudden disappearance of the Effigy Mound peoples from their Mississippi River valley haunts sometime after 1000 A.D.

      Disappearing food
      In an article published late this summer in the American Antiquities journal, Boszhardt and fellow UW-La Crosse archaeologist James Theler offered an eye-opening explanation for the demise of the Effigy Mound culture. Archaeological evidence, they theorized, shows the Effigy Mound people arrived at their fate because they overhunted the white-tailed deer, their primary food source.
      Boszhardt, 51, and Theler, 60, have spent their entire careers studying the ancient people who once lived in the Mississippi River valley and on the adjacent landscapes of the Driftless Area. But -- as with everyone else who has studied the Late Woodland period when the Effigy Mound cultures thrived -- an explanation for the demise of the mound builders remained elusive. They were in the historical record, Theler said, and then they were not.
      "Within the Effigy Mound culture," Theler said, "there were very distinct pottery types. These were signature ceramics. And they were found everywhere up to A.D. 1050 and then they stop. It has been a tremendous mystery, a tremendous problem for archaeology."
      But over the past decade, archaeological sleuthing by Theler and Boszhardt and their study of existing information allowed them to write the story of how the Effigy Mound cultures probably disappeared from southwest Wisconsin. The evidence, as is usually true in science, came together over years and in sometimes surprising ways.
      For example, in the years immediately prior to the disappearance of the Effigy Mound people from the archaeological record, enormous piles, or middens, of mussel shells show up in their camps along the Mississippi. Though interesting, the large size of the middens after 1000 A.D. didn't really click with Theler and Boszhardt until they were having lunch together one day. Boszhardt, Theler said, was talking about how curious it was that the Effigy Mound people were, late in their existence, eating so many mussels, not the most appetizing of foods.
      Theler recalled realizing, suddenly, that Boszhardt had hit on something. "I said, You mean they were reduced to eating mussels.'"
      It became an important part of the theory -- faced with the dwindling supply of deer, the people of the Effigy Mound culture had to find other sources of food.

      Other pieces of the puzzle
      Other pieces of the puzzle came together. Theler had done extensive studies of Effigy Mound camps in the Bad Axe River Valley in southwestern Wisconsin, marked by an unusual number of mounds. Theler speculated that they likely marked clan hunting territories and there were so many of them because the valleys were becoming filled with people; both deer and another essential, firewood, were becoming scarce.
      But the art from Tainter Cave seems the most poignant evidence. Boszhardt said archaeological studies of campsites reveal that very few deer were killed during the winter months. Also, their studies showed it was rare to find fetal deer at any time because they weren't hunted. The hunt of pregnant deer depicted on the wall of Tainter Cave was the act of a people desperate for food, Boszhardt said.
      That theory is echoed by Robert Birmingham, former state archaeologist who also has studied the Effigy Mound culture. Birmingham, who praised the American Antiquities article, said the cave painting -- deep in the cave where no natural light would have aided the artist -- may have been painted by a shaman, a spiritual leader who was, in effect, offering up a prayer.
      The drawing of fertile deer, Birmingham said, was likely a plea to the spirits to bring the deer back to a starving people.


    • joe white
      O siyo Susan, Brothers, and Sisters, The March Issue of Ancient American Magazine has been a great success. People are grabbing this issue off of our shelves.
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 26, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        O'siyo Susan, Brothers, and Sisters,
         
        The March Issue of Ancient American Magazine has been a great success.  People are
        grabbing this issue off of our shelves.  If anyone wants a copy, contact Wayne.
         
        Wayne and myself have been discussing for some time the NEED for a Special Edition
        of the BEST of Ancient Waterways Society, and the Best of the Atlantic Conference.
         
        We hope that youall will want to take on this challenge.  You will need as much color
        illustrations possible, and other good art work.  This is an opportunity to get this vital
        information out to the public, and preserved for your records, and generations to come.
         
        Articles must be written for an 8th Grade Reading Level.
         
        Thank Youall for your Love, and Support.
         
        Please phone me for more details.  931 762 3733
         
        Gah gey you e,  Shalom,
        Return to The Torah,
         
        Joe Sitting Owl White
        Principal Chief
        Central Band of Cherokee.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Susan
        Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:55 PM
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Driftless Area Mounds as puzzle pieces; Welcome new member

         

        Welcome to Judith (mareev_zehavi) from Oakland, California who joined our group last week; we now have several members from California and the western US Coast.  Please email me if you did not receive the newcomer greeting letter, Judity.  

        Chris, as busy as you have been, thank you for sharing time and unique talents in your Timeline and thought-provoking post.  For those who had difficulty as I in reading the small print, I enlarged Chris' letter and Ted's interesting article below that preceded her response.  

        Congratulations to Joe Sitting Owl White, Chief of the Central Band of Cherokee (Tennessee) for his two excellent articles in the current Special Edition issue of Ancient American Magazine: DNA and the Cheokee in North America.  The Ancient Waterways Society and a number of members from this group involved in the project were mentioned in the issue. 

        http://www.facebook .com/pages/ Colfax-WI/ Ancient-American -Magazine- Archeology- of-the-Americas- Before-Columbus/ 189002950786? v=photos# !/pages/Colfax- WI/Ancient- American- Magazine- Archeology- of-the-Americas- Before-Columbus/ 189002950786? v=wall

        Below is a link to the Oopa Loopa Cafe interview that host Rick Osmon did a few months ago of Joe White, which I believe I listed previously.  The magazine issue and two hour Oopa Loopa Cafe interview very well details the ten years of intensive research, cooperative efforts by many, and very recent, exciting results.   

        http://www.blogtalk radio.com/ oopa-loopa- cafe/2009/ 11/27/joe- sitting-owl- white-and- the-jubilee- stone

        Keep the posts, sharing of information, and updates coming in.  My reading and on-line time are greatly restricted again, so please continue to encourae and supoport each other here at this site.  I know there are many similarly related Yahoo and other groups, informational, and Facebook sites;  perhaps down the road this group may become unnecessary.  In the meantime, thanks to this diverse membership all for your efforts, and especially, to me, those where you are working and sharing with others.

        Susan


        --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@ ...> wrote:

        Hi guys,
        I picked this almost randomly out of my 200+ backlog of e-mail/postings. There would seem to be, again, a blind spot in the researcher's speculations. That of the diffusional element. As collegiate trained researchers, they are not allowed to even think that there may have been contact with other people; which may have been causing a stress element in the native population base.

        Timeline... Vikings     http://www.viking. no/e/etimeline. htm 

        981 CE Vikings reach Greenland

        986   Newfoundland being explored

        1000  Christian or not, the Scands are spreading down coast

        1010  Reports have survived of at least one person attempting to start American settlement.. . how many other 'attempts' may have been semi-successful (and not been kept to written record) allowing a limited contact into the trade network of the indigenous Americans? We cannot assume L'anse Aux Meadows to be Vinland, as even i think those were two different places. If we have two settlements of the new lands, then there is no telling how many others there were which did not get registered in "history".

        1015  Vikings abandon Vinland settlement on EAST coast. By then, how many internal contacts from Hudson Bay & up the Nelson River access were there? Settlements do not have to be established for disease, germs and viruses to be transmitted. If the coasts were being energetically explored, certainly the Mississippi had been found in the next 40 yrs. Timeline targeted to send infections up into the Mounds Cultures from South, down from the North and in from the East.

        By the 1030's the people may have been dying of population decreases due to reproductive infections. Depicting pregnant deer may have been a prayer for their own babies to live and thrive, not be aborted, stillborn or blemished from STD's.

        In the native Cultural training i have had, Deer was associated with fertility, sex appeal, even sexual addiction to the downfall of some young men. A cautionary tale among the Siouxan traditions warns young men not to be lured into the forests by the irresistably gorgeous Deerwoman, who would lead them down a path of thoughtless distraction and get him lost or killed because he failed to pay attention to the basic hazards or needs of proper living.

        Without knowing what the PEOPLE who painted the deer were thinking, we cannot apply our ignorant values to an image when found in a ceremonial setting. A deer was SO much more than 'just meat'. Deer Spirit held extremely complex philosophical, social, physical and religious implications to all Natives. We cannot ascribe everything we simply don't understand to 'primitive mojo' or 'hunting magic'. The truth is very much more complicated.

        That the population was under social and resource pressures, yes we can say that from the archaeological digs. If we do not allow the presence of outsiders to be a factor in the impacts being applied, then we prevent ourselves from exploring alternate solutions to the mystery. We meet a dead end with nowhere else to go, throw up our hands and quit looking. The day you stop searching, you will find nothing else.

        -chris

        --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@mchsi. com> wrote: 


        From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@mchsi. com>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Why the mounds the Drift less area are a major piece of the puzzle
        To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 10:46 AM

        There are pictures on the MVAC 
        CVES >>>

        Finding A Lost Society
        Uw-lacrosse Archaeologists Research The Demise Of The Effigy Mounds Culture.

        Wisconsin State Journal :: LOCAL :: C1

        Wednesday, September 13, 2006
        RON SEE$LY rseely@madison. com

        608-252-6131

        On a summer afternoon in 1998, UW-La Crosse archaeologist Robert "Ernie" Boszhardt descended into the darkness of a southwestern Wisconsin cave rumored to harbor paintings and artifacts left by people of the ancient Effigy Mounds culture.
        Boszhardt was not expecting much. Such whispered stories of archaeological treasure are common but often turn out to be modern-day graffiti, the "artifacts" actually debris from teenage parties. With the light from the cave's low and narrow entrance fading to dusk behind him, Boszhardt saw plenty of that: doused campfires, scattered beer cans.
        But as he went deeper, into larger and completely darkened rooms, he saw in the beam of his flashlight half-burned birch bark torches scattered on the floor and ghostly images of animals migrating across the stone walls. Eventually he found himself facing a wall upon which was drawn an entire herd of deer -- many of the females pregnant, with tiny fawns drawn carefully inside of them -- being hunted by figures wielding bows and arrows.
        Boszhardt had little idea then that the painting he found in Tainter Cave would help solve a long-standing archaeological mystery. Its story of a long-ago deer hunt would help explain the relatively sudden disappearance of the Effigy Mound peoples from their Mississippi River valley haunts sometime after 1000 A.D.

        http://l.yimg.com/a/i/space.gif

        Disappearing food
        In an article published late this summer in the American Antiquities journal, Boszhardt and fellow UW-La Crosse archaeologist James Theler offered an eye-opening explanation for the demise of the Effigy Mound culture. Archaeological evidence, they theorized, shows the Effigy Mound people arrived at their fate because they overhunted the white-tailed deer, their primary food source.
        Boszhardt, 51, and Theler, 60, have spent their entire careers studying the ancient people who once lived in the Mississippi River valley and on the adjacent landscapes of the Driftless Area. But -- as with everyone else who has studied the Late Woodland period when the Effigy Mound cultures thrived -- an explanation for the demise of the mound builders remained elusive. They were in the historical record, Theler said, and then they were not.
        "Within the Effigy Mound culture," Theler said, "there were very distinct pottery types. These were signature ceramics. And they were found everywhere up to A.D. 1050 and then they stop. It has been a tremendous mystery, a tremendous problem for archaeology. "
        But over the past decade, archaeological sleuthing by Theler and Boszhardt and their study of existing information allowed them to write the story of how the Effigy Mound cultures probably disappeared from southwest Wisconsin. The evidence, as is usually true in science, came together over years and in sometimes surprising ways.
        For example, in the years immediately prior to the disappearance of the Effigy Mound people from the archaeological record, enormous piles, or middens, of mussel shells show up in their camps along the Mississippi. Though interesting, the large size of the middens after 1000 A.D. didn't really click with Theler and Boszhardt until they were having lunch together one day. Boszhardt, Theler said, was talking about how curious it was that the Effigy Mound people were, late in their existence, eating so many mussels, not the most appetizing of foods.
        Theler recalled realizing, suddenly, that Boszhardt had hit on something. "I said, You mean they were reduced to eating mussels.'"
        It became an important part of the theory -- faced with the dwindling supply of deer, the people of the Effigy Mound culture had to find other sources of food.

        Other pieces of the puzzle
        Other pieces of the puzzle came together. Theler had done extensive studies of Effigy Mound camps in the Bad Axe River Valley in southwestern Wisconsin, marked by an unusual number of mounds. Theler speculated that they likely marked clan hunting territories and there were so many of them because the valleys were becoming filled with people; both deer and another essential, firewood, were becoming scarce.
        But the art from Tainter Cave seems the most poignant evidence. Boszhardt said archaeological studies of campsites reveal that very few deer were killed during the winter months. Also, their studies showed it was rare to find fetal deer at any time because they weren't hunted. The hunt of pregnant deer depicted on the wall of Tainter Cave was the act of a people desperate for food, Boszhardt said.
        That theory is echoed by Robert Birmingham, former state archaeologist who also has studied the Effigy Mound culture. Birmingham, who praised the American Antiquities article, said the cave painting -- deep in the cave where no natural light would have aided the artist -- may have been painted by a shaman, a spiritual leader who was, in effect, offering up a prayer.
        The drawing of fertile deer, Birmingham said, was likely a plea to the spirits to bring the deer back to a starving people.


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