Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ancient_waterways_society] copper disk

Expand Messages
  • Ted Sojka
    charles, Yes, a blue green spotting is common on pieces. Saw one at the University of Iowa Museum last weekend with a turquoise spotting on it. . A big
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      charles,
      Yes, a blue green spotting is common on pieces.  Saw one at the University of Iowa Museum last weekend with a turquoise spotting on it.  .  A big chunk, thought a glacial erratic, found in Iowa around the turn of the last century.  
      ted
      On Apr 8, 2010, at 3:10 PM, charles bruns wrote:

      survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness?  
      it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns    


    • Vince
      Interesting... could the material be azurite?
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Interesting... could the material be azurite?

        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
        >
        > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
        > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
        >
      • Vince
        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Azurite-velvet-beauty.jpg
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Azurite-velvet-beauty.jpg


          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
          >
          > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
          > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
          >
        • Susan
          A scroll down the following site shows photos of azurite and copper w/other similar minerals, though not turqouise. (Note also a sample called copper petrified
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
          • 0 Attachment

            A scroll down the following site shows photos of azurite and copper w/other similar minerals, though not turqouise. (Note also a sample called copper petrified wood) 

            http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/029/index.html

            Char, when able to see photos of the artifacts mentioned in your post, perhaps you will find people knowledgeable about PreColumbian jewelry.  I did not see photos akin to your descriptions at this History of Jewelry - PreColumbian site.  Will be curious to learn if the copper discs with holes are beads, annular rings, ear rings.   Or used for non-adornment functions.   http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/jewelry_history_pre-columbian.html

            A Poll of our small group might be interesting sometime.  It would be my bet that most regulars here believe there was extensiveb ongoing two-way traffic, trade, and genetic diffusion between all of the Americas, including the Mississippi Riverways through the Great Lakes, for many thousands of years.  Hopefully most here are not waiting decades until academics and scientists verify and carry such knowledge and 'proof forward into the mainstream.  But are instead carrying forth within your own lives ways of regarding the world---and ourselves---attuned with these preponderances of evidence, and wisdoms passed down to us from ancient ones of all lands and waterways. 

            Thanks for the posts Charles, and all.

            Susan

             

            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <v_barrows@...> wrote:
            >
            > Interesting... could the material be azurite?
            >
            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns charbruns@ wrote:
            > >
            > > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
            > > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
            > >
            >

          • Rick O
            Testing its composition through non-destructive means is easy: weigh it on a good tare type scale, then see how much water volume it displaces. This will give
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 9, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Testing its composition through non-destructive means is easy: weigh it
              on a good tare type scale, then see how much water volume it displaces.
              This will give its specific gravity. Compare that number to the specific
              gravity listed for copper (Wikipedia is an adequate source for that type
              of info).

              But! to the main point, turquoise in copper is nearly unique to ancient
              Egyptian sources/mines...

              Oz


              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, charles bruns
              <charbruns@...> wrote:
              >
              > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum
              turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small
              hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge. beauty of piece
              is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of
              disc. closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.
              Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).
              I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders
              here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans. Now does the turquoise mean it
              comes from the SOUTH? Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue
              inclusions? Can God cure me of this covetesness?
              > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated
              collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore
              the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any
              idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove,
              without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear
              photo? OAE, char bruns
              >
            • charles bruns
              I could just dive into that pool.  the spots are little spheres (you can see them in material within the center hole)  turquoise blue about the shade of
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                I could just dive into that pool.  the spots are little spheres (you can see them in material within the center hole)  turquoise blue about the shade of Sleeping Beauty from the southwest.  couple of geode like dot holes where material was lost.  i ask north, south, or west, and the answer comes back 'on the other side of the world to the east. 
                thank you, chb

                --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Vince <v_barrows@...> wrote:

                From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: copper disk
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                 
                http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/b/ b5/Azurite- velvet-beauty. jpg

                --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@. ..> wrote:
                >
                > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
                > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
                >


              • Steven Steigerwald
                How can I get that for the Aztalan Museum? Steve STeigerwald To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com; ozman@rtccom.net From: charbruns@yahoo.com Date:
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 10, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  How can I get that for the Aztalan Museum?

                  Steve STeigerwald 

                  To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com; ozman@...
                  From: charbruns@...
                  Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:53:41 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: copper disk

                   
                  I could just dive into that pool.  the spots are little spheres (you can see them in material within the center hole)  turquoise blue about the shade of Sleeping Beauty from the southwest.  couple of geode like dot holes where material was lost.  i ask north, south, or west, and the answer comes back 'on the other side of the world to the east. 
                  thank you, chb

                  --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: copper disk
                  To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                   
                  http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/b/ b5/Azurite- velvet-beauty. jpg

                  --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
                  > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
                  >





                  Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.
                • charles bruns
                  stand in line Steve, I am getting going on that tomorrow.  chb ... From: Steven Steigerwald Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society]
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 12, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    stand in line Steve, I am getting going on that tomorrow.  chb

                    --- On Sat, 4/10/10, Steven Steigerwald <aztalan2008@...> wrote:

                    From: Steven Steigerwald <aztalan2008@...>
                    Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: copper disk
                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 10:51 PM

                     
                    How can I get that for the Aztalan Museum?

                    Steve STeigerwald 

                    To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com; ozman@rtccom. net
                    From: charbruns@yahoo. com
                    Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:53:41 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: copper disk

                     
                    I could just dive into that pool.  the spots are little spheres (you can see them in material within the center hole)  turquoise blue about the shade of Sleeping Beauty from the southwest.  couple of geode like dot holes where material was lost.  i ask north, south, or west, and the answer comes back 'on the other side of the world to the east. 
                    thank you, chb

                    --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                    Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: copper disk
                    To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                    Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                     
                    http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/b/ b5/Azurite- velvet-beauty. jpg

                    --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
                    > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
                    >





                    Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.

                  • Chris Patenaude
                    ummm,.... just sorta kinda out of right-brain leftfield... a) assuming human enterprenurism was not invented in the 21st century... b) that there s always
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 12, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      ummm,.... just sorta kinda out of right-brain leftfield...
                      a) assuming human enterprenurism was not invented in the 21st century...
                      b) that there's always gonna be that one guy who tries to get more for a knock-off than is deserved...
                      c) owing to the well known fact, even "back then" (400 CE) that the sign of Egyptian Copper [a high-value piece] was inclusion of blue/turquoise bits (even as small as rocksalt) in the metal....
                      d) and any upper Midwest American having local copper be as cheap as doing a bit of stream-hunting on one's own...
                      e) Would it be out of the question to see Sleazy Racoon of the local village get his hands on left-over turquoise tooling grit, soften up some local copper he mined himself, and thump in some 'inclusions'. Takes a 3beaverpelt priced piece & boosts it up to (faux) Levant Import status. If someone in 'business' thinks up things like this today, you don't believe it didn't happen all over world history?
                       
                      Just a thot...
                      -c
                       
                       
                       

                      --- On Sat, 4/10/10, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:

                      From: charles bruns <charbruns@...>
                      Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: copper disk
                      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Osmon" <ozman@...>
                      Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 10:53 AM



                      I could just dive into that pool.  the spots are little spheres (you can see them in material within the center hole)  turquoise blue about the shade of Sleeping Beauty from the southwest.  couple of geode like dot holes where material was lost.  i ask north, south, or west, and the answer comes back 'on the other side of the world to the east. 
                      thank you, chb

                      --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Vince <v_barrows@...> wrote:

                      From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
                      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: copper disk
                      To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                       
                      http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/b/ b5/Azurite- velvet-beauty. jpg

                      --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, charles bruns <charbruns@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > survey this week of mixed finds donated to Halifaxc Historical Museum turned up copper disk aprox. quarter sized, twice as thick, with small hole in center and evidence of tool abrasion on edge.  beauty of piece is a splash of turquoise dots (inclusions in metal)across center of disc.  closest archaic site is Tick Island on the St. Johns River, FL.  Find listed as from Daytona Mound (there isn't one anymore, of course).  I am preaching to the waves here that the prehistoric mound builders here were Olmec or other proto-Mayans.  Now does the turquoise mean it comes from the SOUTH?  Has anyone seen Great Lakes copper with blue inclusions?  Can God cure me of this covetesness? 
                      > it is such an outstanding anomally from the rest of the donated collection. the halifax ladies have no idea what they have, all adore the bead, and have not decided what to do with the collection nor any idea of how to assemble or display it. Any suggestions on how to prove, without damage, the disc is copper? Origin? How to get macro/clear photo? OAE, char bruns   
                      >





                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.