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Re: Very Ancient Mariners/Aquatic Ape...dolphins or whale origins?

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  • Susan
    Margaret, you have raised an interesting point. If you run across any such theoretical work on dolphin, whale evolution/mutation, I d be highly interested.
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 25, 2010
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      Margaret, you have raised an interesting point.  If you run across any such theoretical work on dolphin, whale evolution/mutation, I'd be highly interested.  We don't live too far apart and one day we may get a chance to meet near Lake Michigan, perhaps.  I know you are a member of the Old Copper Culture Museum in Oconto, WI.  I plan to become a dues-paying member, so perhaps we couldd meet near there.  I'd like to talk about some oddities I saw in the underwater ceynotes and inner walls decades ago that had a couple of us baffled...looking back, very much indicated the possibility of some kind of acquatic & land mammal with the abilities to carve stone.  Water level differences indicate the last or earlier glacial periods, and location was Yucatan Peninsula and N. Belize.  Hence my comment in the post about 'acquatic mammal'.  I need to read further the article Pam sent, also.   I am not a scientist but need to quench this matter before I am pushing up daisies because that area of the world...almost underworld-type location...still has me baffled.

      Margaret, you travel fairly often northward into Wisconsin toward Manitowoch, WI warm weather months.  Could you keep us updated if you hear anything further about the Tisch Mills, WI possible ancient ship located within very early historic Native American burial grounds?  Some of the media articles, such as one in the Green Bay Gazette have been withdrawn, and there do seem to be "More Questions Than Answers", as was stated in this AAANativeArts.com link: http://www.aaanativearts.com/article1621.html  and old friends acquainted with many members of Ancient Waterways were doing serious investigative research at the site, but I don't know if anything conclusive came up about a old or ancient sailing vessel. 

      Thanks for your comment, Margaret.  Always good hearing from you.  Please post if you hear of any forthcoming, related conferences,  meetings or field trips such as The Hanwakan Center ....for Prehistoric Astronomy, Cosmology and Cultural Landscape Studies, Inc. http://www.hanwakan.org/About/Herman_Bender.html

      I never cease to be amazed by the highly diverse, yet interrelated interests or areas of research many members share.  We also comprise a large span of geographical locations that make up this Ancient Waterways Society.  Thank you for continuing with us,  finding and sharing common ground (or waters).  We appreciate all who post here as well as those members and observers who follow our writings, also.  Please feel free to email Stan, Vince or myself off-line with suggestions or areas that need impoving. 

      Many thanks...      

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "marglutze" <mlutze777@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would like to raise a point for thought here. Dolphins and whales are said to have evolved from land animals, and they have skeletal structures that are very similar to humans. Maybe there is common ancestry, or an evolutionary story, shared by humans and dolphins and whales. I found the Aquatic Ape website referenced below to be very interesting and it may be illuminating to consider dolphins and whales in this type of analysis.
      >
      > Margaret Lutze
      >
      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere metismartin@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Fine by me Susan. The earlier theorists discounted the comments by saying that when the indigenous refer to a large number, like over a million, they are just saying "for eternity beyond our memory". Yet, with our renewed modern understanding of the intricacies known to the ancient Mayans (who are considered the bloodline ancestors to many of the people on this island (including the Dene, Hopi, Mandan, Iroquoian and other families)), we can now dispense with the early misguided theoriies and revisit the true history of the world with open minds and hearts.
      > >  
      > > Best regards,
      > >  
      > > Martin Carriere
      > >
      > > --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Susan beldingenglish@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Susan beldingenglish@
      > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Very Ancient Mariners/Aquatic Ape
      > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      > > Received: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 2:08 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >  
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      > > Pam, Martin, and All,
      > > I don't want the two fine lettersto  get buried or lost into our site's archives without comment.   Even considering the possibilities that intelligent human beings existed half a million to a million years ago stirs my blood as much as anything within the area of ancient navigation and global diffusionism.  Pam, I'd not heard of the Aquatic Ape idea but wondered for some time about a possibly aquatic mammal after seeing evidence on partially and deeply submerged cave and ceynote walls in Mexico and C. America.  Hope to hear more on that subject so relevant to explorations into ancient waterways.
      > >  Martin, if OK, I'd very much like to submit the integrity of your comment (below) in full in quotes with your name for use beyond this group, within my salutation to new friends in the Yucatan, a couple of whom are shaman. It is not a stretch to see strong diffusion and kinship possiblities along ancient Great Lakes-Mississippi Riverways between North America & Canadian First Nations peoples and Mexico, Central and South America.
      > > Megalithic Portal News earlier this week had additional information on Crete with comments, photos of a more recent settlement near where the stone tools were found called Matila. As the article requested,  I sought permission from Jan Herold who is a German physicist and had submitted photos.  Same page also includes a detailed map of nearby sites.  http://www.megalith ic.co.uk/ article.php? sid=11654  
      > >
      > > Susan,
      > >
      > > Thanks for asking. You can use the article and the photos for your society.
      > >
      > > Some years ago I visited at Tenerife the pyramids of Güimar where some
      > > of Thor Heyerdahls ships are presented. His contributions to the
      > > exploration of ancient waterways are very interesting.
      > >
      > > Cheers,  Jan
      > > Another link shows photos of the stone tools evidencing very early sea voyages in the earlier article that Pam had submitted.
      > > http://www.nytimes. com/2010/ 02/16/science/ 16archeo. html?em
      > > All, please continue with the excellent posts and articles, as Ted has been sending this week, too.  Many here too would appreciate updates on continuing exploration and interpretation at the Crete site, also the underwater site off Cuba at 1700 feet.   And,  as waters warm in the north in a few months---the submerged site near Traverse Bay in Lake Michigan investigated by archaeologist Mark Holley.
      > > Susan
      > > "To create a conscious person is no doubt the most important task any human being may embark into, to know how to create a lucid, creative and loving existence; to walk The Path With a Heart is a great challenge full of teachings, satisfactions and beauty;  an invitation to awaken consciousness and to live in a rich, powerful way aiming to freedom"    â€"Mario Gomez Mayorga (Mexico)   Speaker, shaman, & friend from the Prophets Conference- Cancun: http://www.greatmys tery.org/ nl/cancun2012mar io-rocio. html
      > >  
      > >  
      > > --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The match to the Central Amerindian elders who when asked by Cortez's priests how long the traditional histories went back with the answer of a million years is more in line with the indigenous understanding of history. In that way 700,000 is not really a far stretch at all. What the world would have been like if they had just listened peacefully and embraced each other as long lost brothers.
      > > >
      > > > Best,
      > > >
      > > > Martin
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- On Wed, 2/17/10, pamela_giese2000 pamela_giese2000@ ... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From: pamela_giese2000 pamela_giese2000@ ...
      > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Very Ancient Mariners/Aquatic Ape
      > > > To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
      > > > Received: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 3:53 AM
      > > >
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      > > > Hi All,
      > > >
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      > > >
      > > > Here's an interesting article about evidence of ancient mariners going back to 100,000 years or more found on Crete: http://www.palenews .net/2010/ 02/on-crete- new-evidence- of-very-ancient. html . Even more amazing is that further in the article, some of the tools actually would indicate 700,000! While 100,000 is pre-current theories, 700,000 is out of the current "reality". But, it makes me wonder about the "Aquatic Ape" theory of Elaine Morgan and others. Briefly, Aquatic Ape theory says that one reason we haven't found "the missing link" in evolution is that the link would be under water, as humans are descended from an aquatic ape. There are a number of anatomical reasons for this. See: http://www.primitiv ism.com/aquatic- ape.htm
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      > > > Makes you think......
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      > > > Pam
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