Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update

Expand Messages
  • Chris Patenaude
    I m so backlogged, i m hopping in the middle of this thread without context. So pardon the obvious dummy question... The URL says Pict. as in Scottish
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm so backlogged, i'm hopping in the middle of this thread without context. So pardon the obvious 'dummy' question...
      The URL says Pict. as in Scottish warrior.
      I'm confused as to why this is being called a Native American?...
      -c

      --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...> wrote:

      From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...>
      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
      To: "leeannmclaughlin" <leeannm@...>, ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 1:43 PM



      Hi Judi;
      Later, Natives were said to have no body or facial hair. I dont know if this early 1590 engraving was typical. The yatagan or Turkish sword also appears in several of the drawings. The strand of hair, possibly buffalo fur hanging from the spear at the cross is of interest as well as the spherical object at its base.
       
      What
      Regards;
      Vince
       


      --- On Tue, 12/1/09, leeannmclaughlin <leeannm@...> wrote:

      From: leeannmclaughlin <leeannm@...>
      Subject: Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
      To: "Vince" <v_barrows@...>
      Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 2:28 PM

      Vince,

      Is that a non typical mustache on this man's face?

      Judi

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Vince" <v_barrows@...> wrote:
      >
      > The bannerstones decrease your distance with the Atl-Atl.
      >
      > Take a look at the First-contact 1590 drawings by John White that show readings being taken for an O'clock position:
      > http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uploads/2007/08/pict_neighbor.jpg
      >
      > Notice the same angle of the spear held by all four natives in this photo. The sphere at the base of the spear was used as a pivot.
      >
      > Could the Cross-like object atop the spear in the drawing in earlier times have been the "bannerstone". From 1915, Grinnell stated in Blackfeet Indian Storiesindicate the lock of buffalo hair was attached to a butterfly shaped object that was set atop the lodge poles, as follows:
      > "At the back of the lodge, high up, just below the place where the lodge poles cross, was often a large round disk representing the sun, and above that a cross, which was the sign of the butterfly, the power that they believe brings sleep. From the ends of the wings, or tied to the tips of the poles which supported them, hung buffalo tails, and sometimes running down from one of these poles to the ground near the door was a string of the sheaths of buffalo hooflets, which rattled as it swung to and fro in the breeze."
      >
      > Similar set-up is shown on the Wilmington, Ohio Bannerstone.
      >






    • Vincent Barrows
      Chris, it s a good question. Depicted in John White s volume at the end of the other Jamestown Virginia drawings was a set of Picts , meaning Pictish. They
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 5, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Chris,
        it's a good question. Depicted in John White's volume at the end of the other Jamestown Virginia drawings was a set of "Picts", meaning Pictish. They were added, Possibly by le moyne.
        Even though they were Pictish I have noticed a similarity to the object at the spear with the "bannerstone".

        Vince

        --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:

        > From: Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...>
        > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
        > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 1:59 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm so backlogged, i'm
        > hopping in the middle of this thread without context. So
        > pardon the obvious 'dummy' question...
        > The URL says Pict. as in Scottish warrior.
        > I'm confused as to why this is being called a
        > Native American?...
        > -c
        >
        > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Vincent Barrows
        > <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
        > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: Wilmington Ohio
        > Relics update
        > To: "leeannmclaughlin" <leeannm@iengi.
        > com>, ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 1:43 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Judi;
        > Later, Natives were said to have no body or
        > facial hair. I dont know if this early 1590
        > engraving was typical. The yatagan or Turkish
        > sword also appears in several of the drawings. The
        > strand of hair, possibly buffalo fur hanging from the spear
        > at the cross is of interest as well as the spherical object
        > at its base.
        >  
        > What
        > Regards;
        > Vince
        >  
        >
        >
        > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, leeannmclaughlin
        > <leeannm@iengi. com> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: leeannmclaughlin <leeannm@iengi. com>
        > Subject: Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
        > To: "Vince" <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
        > Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 2:28 PM
        >
        >
        > Vince,
        >
        > Is that a non typical mustache on this man's face?
        >
        > Judi
        >
        > --- In ancient_waterways_
        > society@yahoogro ups.com, "Vince"
        > <v_barrows@.. .> wrote:
        > >
        > > The bannerstones decrease your distance with the
        > Atl-Atl.
        > >
        > > Take a look at the First-contact 1590 drawings by John
        > White that show readings being taken for an O'clock
        > position:
        > > http://www.learnnc
        > org/lp/media/ uploads/2007/ 08/pict_neighbor .jpg
        > >
        > > Notice the same angle of the spear held by all four
        > natives in this photo. The sphere at the base of the spear
        > was used as a pivot.
        > >
        > > Could the Cross-like object atop the spear in the
        > drawing in earlier times have been the
        > "bannerstone" . From 1915, Grinnell stated in
        > Blackfeet Indian Storiesindicate the lock of buffalo hair
        > was attached to a butterfly shaped object that was set atop
        > the lodge poles, as follows:
        > > "At the back of the lodge, high up, just below
        > the place where the lodge poles cross, was often a large
        > round disk representing the sun, and above that a cross,
        > which was the sign of the butterfly, the power that they
        > believe brings sleep. From the ends of the wings, or tied to
        > the tips of the poles which supported them, hung buffalo
        > tails, and sometimes running down from one of these poles to
        > the ground near the door was a string of the sheaths of
        > buffalo hooflets, which rattled as it swung to and fro in
        > the breeze."
        > >
        > > Similar set-up is shown on the Wilmington, Ohio
        > Bannerstone.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Chris Patenaude
        imho... perhaps the similarities behest Old World contact with Nat. Amn s?  What if the style was brought back to the Scottish side as a graceful, yet
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 9, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          imho... perhaps the similarities behest Old World contact with Nat. Amn's?  What if the style was brought back to the Scottish side as a graceful, yet pragmatic fashion just as i now cook regularly with chopsticks in my own kitchen, enjoy wearing Mu-mu's to relax, drive a car with an American trademark but Asian parts, and like to read up on Chinese IChing to compare philosophy. When we find something fresh, new and 'neat', we as humans tend to find our own way to use it in our own context. What if the engravings were included to show that there were definite, perhaps even surprising parallels between what was known in Scotland and this new land?
          -c
          --- On Sat, 12/5/09, Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...> wrote:

          From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@...>
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 10:09 PM

          Chris,
          it's a good question. Depicted in John White's volume at the end of the other Jamestown Virginia drawings was a set of "Picts", meaning Pictish. They were added, Possibly by le moyne.
          Even though they were Pictish I have noticed a similarity to the object at the spear with the "bannerstone".

          Vince

          --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:

          > From: Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...>
          > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 1:59 AM
            
          >       I'm so backlogged, i'm
          > hopping in the middle of this thread without context. So
          > pardon the obvious 'dummy' question...
          > The URL says Pict. as in Scottish warrior.
          > I'm confused as to why this is being called a
          > Native American?...
          > -c
          >
          > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Vincent Barrows
          > <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Vincent Barrows <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: Wilmington Ohio
          > Relics update
          > To: "leeannmclaughlin" <leeannm@iengi.
          > com>, ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 1:43 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Judi;
          > Later, Natives were said to have no body or
          > facial hair. I dont know if this early 1590
          > engraving was typical. The yatagan or Turkish
          > sword also appears in several of the drawings. The
          > strand of hair, possibly buffalo fur hanging from the spear
          > at the cross is of interest as well as the spherical object
          > at its base.
          >  
          > What
          > Regards;
          > Vince
          >  
          >
          >
          > --- On Tue, 12/1/09, leeannmclaughlin
          > <leeannm@iengi. com> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: leeannmclaughlin <leeannm@iengi. com>
          > Subject: Re: Wilmington Ohio Relics update
          > To: "Vince" <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
          > Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 2:28 PM
          >
          >
          > Vince,
          >
          > Is that a non typical mustache on this man's face?
          >
          > Judi
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_
          > society@yahoogro ups.com, "Vince"
          > <v_barrows@.. .> wrote:
          > >
          > > The bannerstones decrease your distance with the
          > Atl-Atl.
          > >
          > > Take a look at the First-contact 1590 drawings by John
          > White that show readings being taken for an O'clock
          > position:
          > > http://www.learnnc.
          > org/lp/media/ uploads/2007/ 08/pict_neighbor .jpg
          > >
          > > Notice the same angle of the spear held by all four
          > natives in this photo. The sphere at the base of the spear
          > was used as a pivot.
          > >
          > > Could the Cross-like object atop the spear in the
          > drawing in earlier times have been the
          >  "bannerstone" . From 1915, Grinnell stated in
          > Blackfeet Indian Storiesindicate the lock of buffalo hair
          > was attached to a butterfly shaped object that was set atop
          > the lodge poles, as follows:
          > > "At the back of the lodge, high up, just below
          > the place where the lodge poles cross, was often a large
          > round disk representing the sun, and above that a cross,
          > which was the sign of the butterfly, the power that they
          > believe brings sleep. From the ends of the wings, or tied to
          > the tips of the poles which supported them, hung buffalo
          > tails, and sometimes running down from one of these poles to
          > the ground near the door was a string of the sheaths of
          > buffalo hooflets, which rattled as it swung to and fro in
          > the breeze."
          > >
          > > Similar set-up is shown on the Wilmington, Ohio
          > Bannerstone.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >       
          >
          >     
          >     
          >
          >     
          >     
          >
          >

          >
          >
          >
          >   
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


               


          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/

          <*> Your email settings:
              Individual Email | Traditional

          <*> To change settings online go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/join
              (Yahoo! ID required)

          <*> To change settings via email:
              ancient_waterways_society-digest@yahoogroups.com
              ancient_waterways_society-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

          <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              ancient_waterways_society-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        • v_barrows
          Here is an article that shows the actual Welch Butterfly bannerstone photographed. Just learned from this article that the slate bannerstone was made of
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 9, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            Here is an article that shows the actual Welch Butterfly bannerstone photographed. Just learned from this article that the slate bannerstone was made of purplish color slate and is in the ohio historical museum.https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/56002/OHIO_ARCHAEOLOGIST_11_2_APRIL_1961.pdf?sequence=1
          • trayloroo
            GREAT .... enjoyed it .... After the Burrows Cave experience, are we still certain this purple stone is a fake, page 64. CAL
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 10, 2014
            • 0 Attachment

              GREAT .... enjoyed it ....  After the Burrows Cave experience, are we still certain this purple stone is a fake, page 64.

               

              CAL 

            • v_barrows
              IMO, it s real as the the four winds. Very rare and important too. Dr. Hill of Concinatti and Warren Moorehead also agreed that it is authentic.
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 10, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                IMO, it's real as the the four winds. Very rare and important too. Dr. Hill of Concinatti and Warren Moorehead also agreed that it is authentic.
              • v_barrows
                Here is a link to photobucket showing more photos of the welch butterfly and Richardson tablet:
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 10, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  Here is a link to photobucket showing more photos of the welch butterfly and Richardson tablet:http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Marburg72/library/KOREA/Dads_retirement_party/PETROGLYPHS/Wilmington
                • wmsmithrock1
                  Thanks for the link Vince. What is your opinion on the Welch butterfly symbols? and the 20 boxes shown in The Richardson tablets?
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 10, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Thanks for the link Vince. What is your opinion on the Welch butterfly symbols? and the 20 boxes shown in The Richardson tablets?

                  • Vincent Barrows
                    William I'm not qualified to translate it, since I'm just an engineer. However I saw some similarities to Mayan glyphs which are visibly evident. This
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 10, 2014
                    • 0 Attachment
                      William
                      I'm not qualified to translate it, since I'm just an engineer. However I saw some similarities to Mayan glyphs which are visibly evident. This was summarized in the white paper that I sent you after the Wilmington conference 2008.
                      Respectfully
                      Vince


                      From: wmsmithrock1@... <wmsmithrock1@...>;
                      To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                      Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] RE: South Carolina shipping maps
                      Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 3:07:30 PM

                       

                      Thanks for the link Vince. What is your opinion on the Welch butterfly symbols? and the 20 boxes shown in The Richardson tablets?

                    • Chris Patenaude
                      Atlatl hunting as stealth technology ... One of my favorite pages to return to off-n-on. -cp On Friday, January 10, 2014 7:22 AM, v_barrows@yahoo.com
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 13, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Atlatl hunting as "stealth" technology
                        >   http://www.hollowtop.com/spt_html/atlstealth.htm   <

                        One of my favorite pages to return to off-n-on.
                        -cp



                        On Friday, January 10, 2014 7:22 AM, "v_barrows@..." <v_barrows@...> wrote:


                        Here is a link to photobucket showing more photos of the welch butterfly and Richardson tablet:http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Marburg72/library/KOREA/Dads_retirement_party/PETROGLYPHS/Wilmington




                      • Karla Akins
                        It certainly appears authentic. Can you point me to information regarding the inscription? Is there an interpretation? And are you of the opinion they are
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 13, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It certainly appears authentic. Can you point me to information regarding the inscription? Is there an interpretation? And are you of the opinion they are Welsh--because it seems oriental to me somehow.


                          On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Chris Patenaude <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:
                           

                          Atlatl hunting as "stealth" technology
                          >   http://www.hollowtop.com/spt_html/atlstealth.htm   <

                          One of my favorite pages to return to off-n-on.
                          -cp




                          On Friday, January 10, 2014 7:22 AM, "v_barrows@..." <v_barrows@...> wrote:


                          Here is a link to photobucket showing more photos of the welch butterfly and Richardson tablet:http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Marburg72/library/KOREA/Dads_retirement_party/PETROGLYPHS/Wilmington





                        • v_barrows
                          Here is a link to some information on the inscription: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arqueologia/monks_mound05.htm It s not Welch, just found by someone
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 13, 2014
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Here is a link to some information on the inscription: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arqueologia/monks_mound05.htmIt's not Welch, just found by someone with that last name. Yes, I concur that it appears to have some similarity to Asian symbolism such as the yin-yang in the center. Still, I think it is Native American origin.
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.