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Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone

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  • Susan
    Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2009
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      Joe, Thanks for the great information.  My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post.  I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
      And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
       
      I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees. 
       
      The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover.  Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm
      The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
       
      I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.  He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him.  I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim.  Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site.  Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.  A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'. 
      Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k.  I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago.  Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today,  very differently shorelines, land masses,  and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.     
      Just a few thoughts here. Susan

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@...> wrote:
      >
      > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
      >
      > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
      > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
      >
      > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
      > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
      >
      > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
      > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
      >
      > Gah gey you e,
      >
      > Sitting Owl
      > Central Band of Cherokee
      > #1 Public Square
      > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
      > 931 762 3733
      >
      >
      >
      > FYI,
      >
      > Gail Hughes,Director
      > Lawrence County Tourism
      >
    • joe white
      O siyo Susan, We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo. I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame. the Issue is Volume 13, Issue
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        O'siyo Susan,
         
        We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
        I did not know it goes both ways,  What a shame.
         
        the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
         
        Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
         
        Gah gey you e,
         
        Sitting Owl
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Susan
        Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone

         

        Joe, Thanks for the great information.  My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post.  I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
        And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
         
        I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees. 
         
        The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover.  Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancienta merican.com/ current.htm
        The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
         
        I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.  He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him.  I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim.  Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site.  Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.  A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'. 
        Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k.  I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents.. ..many thousands of years ago.  Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today,  very differently shorelines, land masses,  and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.     
        Just a few thoughts here. Susan

        --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
        >
        > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
        > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
        >
        > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
        > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
        >
        > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
        > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
        >
        > Gah gey you e,
        >
        > Sitting Owl
        > Central Band of Cherokee
        > #1 Public Square
        > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
        > 931 762 3733
        >
        >
        >
        > FYI,
        >
        > Gail Hughes,Director
        > Lawrence County Tourism
        >

      • james m clark jr
        Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society search #1511 Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone ...mention here that if anyone
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 8, 2010
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          Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
          search #1511

          Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
          ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.

          Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,

          Message recieved!!

          I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many I am sure do as well.

          But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
          I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa. com

          looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!

          be well,
          jamey


          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@...> wrote:
          >
          > O'siyo Susan,
          >
          > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
          > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
          >
          > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
          >
          > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
          >
          > Gah gey you e,
          >
          > Sitting Owl
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@...>
          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
          >
          >
          >
          > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
          > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
          >
          > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
          > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html>
          >
          > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees.
          >
          > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm>
          > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
          >
          > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries. A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'.
          > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
          > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.
          > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
          > >
          > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
          > >
          > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
          > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
          > >
          > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
          > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
          > >
          > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
          > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
          > >
          > > Gah gey you e,
          > >
          > > Sitting Owl
          > > Central Band of Cherokee
          > > #1 Public Square
          > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
          > > 931 762 3733
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > FYI,
          > >
          > > Gail Hughes,Director
          > > Lawrence County Tourism
          > >
          >
        • james m clark jr
          Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl, The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn t see a link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 8, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,

            The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/

            http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html

            even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.

            I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for that also that includes all the links viewable offline).

            Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed. If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of those before him.

            be well,
            jamey



            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
            > search #1511
            >
            > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
            > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.
            >
            > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
            >
            > Message recieved!!
            >
            > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many I am sure do as well.
            >
            > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
            > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa. com
            >
            > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
            >
            > be well,
            > jamey
            >
            >
            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
            > >
            > > O'siyo Susan,
            > >
            > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
            > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
            > >
            > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
            > >
            > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
            > >
            > > Gah gey you e,
            > >
            > > Sitting Owl
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
            > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
            > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
            > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
            > >
            > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
            > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html>
            > >
            > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees.
            > >
            > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm>
            > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
            > >
            > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries. A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'.
            > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
            > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.
            > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
            > >
            > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
            > > >
            > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
            > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
            > > >
            > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
            > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
            > > >
            > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
            > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
            > > >
            > > > Gah gey you e,
            > > >
            > > > Sitting Owl
            > > > Central Band of Cherokee
            > > > #1 Public Square
            > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
            > > > 931 762 3733
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > FYI,
            > > >
            > > > Gail Hughes,Director
            > > > Lawrence County Tourism
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • joe white
            O siyo Brother, The Jubilee Stone is published on the Front cover of Ancient American Magazine, with details inside. You can order a copy from us. $10.00
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 8, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              O'siyo Brother,
               
              The Jubilee Stone is published on the Front cover of Ancient American Magazine,
              with details inside.  You can order a copy from us.  $10.00 plus $4.00 S&H
              It is the most important artifact in Cherokee History.
               
              Shalom, Gah gey you e,
               
              Sitting Owl
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:07 PM
              Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [ message recieved Sitting Owl]

               

              Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,

              The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/

              http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html

              even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.

              I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for that also that includes all the links viewable offline).

              Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed. If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of those before him.

              be well,
              jamey

              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
              >
              > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
              > search #1511
              >
              > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
              > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.
              >
              > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
              >
              > Message recieved!!
              >
              > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many I am sure do as well.
              >
              > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
              > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa. com
              >
              > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
              >
              > be well,
              > jamey
              >
              >
              > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
              > >
              > > O'siyo Susan,
              > >
              > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
              > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
              > >
              > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
              > >
              > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
              > >
              > > Gah gey you e,
              > >
              > > Sitting Owl
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
              > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
              > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
              > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
              > >
              > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
              > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html>
              > >
              > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees.
              > >
              > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm>
              > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
              > >
              > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries. A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'.
              > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
              > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.
              > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
              > >
              > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
              > > >
              > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
              > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
              > > >
              > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
              > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
              > > >
              > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
              > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
              > > >
              > > > Gah gey you e,
              > > >
              > > > Sitting Owl
              > > > Central Band of Cherokee
              > > > #1 Public Square
              > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
              > > > 931 762 3733
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > FYI,
              > > >
              > > > Gail Hughes,Director
              > > > Lawrence County Tourism
              > > >
              > >
              >

            • Susan
              Jamey, All, I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview Joe Sitting Owl White and the Jubilee Stone which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving week,
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 8, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Jamey, All,

                I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving week, 2009:  http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-white-and-the-jubilee-stone  

                - 2 hrs
                Length:2 hrs
                Description:
                h:2579 s:795176
                It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures, diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey
                , this live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma. Pumpkin pie and a cup o' Joe are recommended.

                 
                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james
                m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                >
                > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                >
                > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                >
                > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                >
                > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                >
                > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed. If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of those before him.
                >
                > be well,
                > jamey
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" jameyboy@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                > > search #1511
                > >
                > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.
                > >
                > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                > >
                > > Message recieved!!
                > >
                > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many I am sure do as well.
                > >
                > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa. com
                > >
                > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                > >
                > > be well,
                > > jamey
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > O'siyo Susan,
                > > >
                > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                > > >
                > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                > > >
                > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                > > >
                > > > Gah gey you e,
                > > >
                > > > Sitting Owl
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
                > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                > > >
                > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html>
                > > >
                > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees.
                > > >
                > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm>
                > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                > > >
                > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries. A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'.
                > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.
                > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                > > >
                > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                > > > >
                > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
                > > > >
                > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
                > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                > > > >
                > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
                > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                > > > >
                > > > > Gah gey you e,
                > > > >
                > > > > Sitting Owl
                > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                > > > > #1 Public Square
                > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                > > > > 931 762 3733
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > FYI,
                > > > >
                > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >

              • james m clark jr
                Hey Doc burrr, I m still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 9, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hey Doc burrr,

                  I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.

                  Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.


                  http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm

                  And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                  Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.

                  Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.

                  be well,
                  jamey


                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Jamey, All,
                  >
                  > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                  > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                  > week, 2009:
                  > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                  > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                  > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                  > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                  >
                  > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                  > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                  > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                  > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                  > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                  > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                  > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                  > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                  > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                  > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                  > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                  > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                  > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                  > >
                  > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                  > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                  > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                  > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                  > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                  > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                  > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                  > >
                  > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                  > >
                  > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                  > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                  > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                  > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                  > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                  > >
                  > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                  > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                  > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                  > >
                  > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                  > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                  > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                  > those before him.
                  > >
                  > > be well,
                  > > jamey
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                  > jameyboy@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                  > > > search #1511
                  > > >
                  > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                  > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                  > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                  > web site.
                  > > >
                  > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                  > > >
                  > > > Message recieved!!
                  > > >
                  > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                  > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                  > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                  > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                  > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                  > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                  > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                  > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                  > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                  > I am sure do as well.
                  > > >
                  > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                  > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                  > com
                  > > >
                  > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                  > > >
                  > > > be well,
                  > > > jamey
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                  > <joe_white@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                  > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gah gey you e,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Sitting Owl
                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                  > > > > To:
                  > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                  > ty@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                  > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                  > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                  > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                  > information:
                  > > > >
                  > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                  > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                  > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                  > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                  > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                  > > > >
                  > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                  > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                  > tion.html>
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                  > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                  > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                  > subscription fees.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                  > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                  > which you are referring in your post?
                  > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                  > m/current.htm>
                  > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                  > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                  > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                  > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                  > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                  > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                  > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                  > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                  > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                  > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                  > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                  > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                  > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                  > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                  > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                  > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                  > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                  > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                  > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                  > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                  > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                  > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                  > Cave'.
                  > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                  > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                  > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                  > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                  > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                  > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                  > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                  > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                  > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                  > other professional fields of research.
                  > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                  > <joe_white@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                  > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                  > S&H.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                  > and unique. Scott
                  > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                  > of the
                  > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Sitting Owl
                  > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                  > > > > > #1 Public Square
                  > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                  > > > > > 931 762 3733
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > FYI,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                  > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • james m clark jr
                  Correction: that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus. According some of these websites concerning this it is
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 9, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Correction:

                    that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.

                    According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.

                    be well,
                    jamey

                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hey Doc burrr,
                    >
                    > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                    >
                    > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                    >
                    > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                    > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                    >
                    > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                    >
                    > be well,
                    > jamey
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Jamey, All,
                    > >
                    > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                    > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                    > > week, 2009:
                    > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                    > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                    > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                    > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                    > >
                    > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                    > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                    > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                    > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                    > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                    > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                    > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                    > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                    > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                    > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                    > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                    > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                    > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                    > > >
                    > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                    > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                    > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                    > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                    > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                    > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                    > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                    > > >
                    > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                    > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                    > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                    > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                    > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                    > > >
                    > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                    > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                    > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                    > > >
                    > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                    > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                    > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                    > > those before him.
                    > > >
                    > > > be well,
                    > > > jamey
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                    > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                    > > > > search #1511
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                    > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                    > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                    > > web site.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Message recieved!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                    > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                    > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                    > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                    > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                    > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                    > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                    > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                    > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                    > > I am sure do as well.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                    > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                    > > com
                    > > > >
                    > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > be well,
                    > > > > jamey
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                    > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                    > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Sitting Owl
                    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                    > > > > > To:
                    > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                    > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                    > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                    > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                    > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                    > > information:
                    > > > > >
                    > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                    > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                    > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                    > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                    > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                    > > > > >
                    > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                    > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                    > > tion.html>
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                    > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                    > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                    > > subscription fees.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                    > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                    > > which you are referring in your post?
                    > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                    > > m/current.htm>
                    > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                    > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                    > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                    > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                    > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                    > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                    > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                    > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                    > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                    > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                    > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                    > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                    > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                    > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                    > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                    > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                    > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                    > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                    > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                    > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                    > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                    > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                    > > Cave'.
                    > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                    > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                    > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                    > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                    > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                    > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                    > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                    > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                    > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                    > > other professional fields of research.
                    > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                    > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                    > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                    > > S&H.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                    > > and unique. Scott
                    > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                    > > of the
                    > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                    > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                    > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                    > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                    > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > FYI,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                    > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • james m clark jr
                    Hey Chief, Shabbat Shalom in your neck of the woods still. I ll be sure to order Ancient American Magazine soon. I just wanted to ask as I have t had time to
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 11, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Chief,

                      Shabbat Shalom in your neck of the woods still.

                      I'll be sure to order Ancient American Magazine soon.

                      I just wanted to ask as I have't had time to listen to you on Oz mans show as of late, but was wondering about two things that are not that important besides I need to listen to it again anyway to address some of thing that caught my attention... perhaps you and your band of Cheorkees could assist in the Highland Realm quest to evaluate if it is an archaeological site.

                      If my memory serves me correctly I assume that was you in this past years Levitt Newsletter in Israel?

                      And concering the Ancient American Magazine in relation to the Oz show... this was what you were referring to reguarding the Cherokee Alphabet. If that is the case I commend you for making such a wise desision... but I was about to shave my head and ask the Creator to help you.

                      be well,
                      jamey

                      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white" <joe_white@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > O'siyo Brother,
                      >
                      > The Jubilee Stone is published on the Front cover of Ancient American Magazine,
                      > with details inside. You can order a copy from us. $10.00 plus $4.00 S&H
                      > It is the most important artifact in Cherokee History.
                      >
                      > Shalom, Gah gey you e,
                      >
                      > Sitting Owl
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: james m clark jr<mailto:jameyboy@...>
                      > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:07 PM
                      > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [ message recieved Sitting Owl]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                      >
                      > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/<http://www.icare-recovery.com/>
                      >
                      > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html<http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html>
                      >
                      > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                      >
                      > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                      >
                      > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed. If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of those before him.
                      >
                      > be well,
                      > jamey
                      >
                      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society%40yahoogroups.com>, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                      > > search #1511
                      > >
                      > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                      > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site.
                      > >
                      > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                      > >
                      > > Message recieved!!
                      > >
                      > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many I am sure do as well.
                      > >
                      > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                      > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa. com
                      > >
                      > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                      > >
                      > > be well,
                      > > jamey
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society%40yahoogroups.com>, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > O'siyo Susan,
                      > > >
                      > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                      > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                      > > >
                      > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                      > > >
                      > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                      > > >
                      > > > Gah gey you e,
                      > > >
                      > > > Sitting Owl
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                      > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                      > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone information:
                      > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf><http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>>
                      > > >
                      > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                      > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html><http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.html>>
                      > > >
                      > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings, assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in subscription fees.
                      > > >
                      > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to which you are referring in your post? http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm><http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm>>
                      > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers, scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                      > > >
                      > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008 and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries. A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000 years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth Cave'.
                      > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023><http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>>
                      > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M. Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed, and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from other professional fields of research.
                      > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_society%40yahoogroups.com>, "joe white" <joe_white@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                      > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00 S&H.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative, and unique. Scott
                      > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp of the
                      > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gah gey you e,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sitting Owl
                      > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                      > > > > #1 Public Square
                      > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                      > > > > 931 762 3733
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > FYI,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                      > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • james m clark jr
                      Hello lo lo lo, Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press... In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 14, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello lo lo lo,

                        Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...

                        "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                        We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."

                        A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258

                        How true is this assumption?

                        asplissimus Pudentes domus

                        Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.

                        Historically speaking...

                        "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of Roman Clemency."
                        Tacitus, Annals, 12:37



                        Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.

                        It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.

                        American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].

                        To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.

                        be well,
                        jamey


                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Correction:
                        >
                        > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                        >
                        > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                        >
                        > be well,
                        > jamey
                        >
                        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hey Doc burrr,
                        > >
                        > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                        > >
                        > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                        > >
                        > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                        > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                        > >
                        > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                        > >
                        > > be well,
                        > > jamey
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Jamey, All,
                        > > >
                        > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                        > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                        > > > week, 2009:
                        > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                        > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                        > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                        > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                        > > >
                        > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                        > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                        > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                        > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                        > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                        > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                        > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                        > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                        > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                        > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                        > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                        > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                        > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                        > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                        > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                        > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                        > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                        > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                        > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                        > > > >
                        > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                        > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                        > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                        > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                        > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                        > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                        > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                        > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                        > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                        > > > those before him.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > be well,
                        > > > > jamey
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                        > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                        > > > > > search #1511
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                        > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                        > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                        > > > web site.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Message recieved!!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                        > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                        > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                        > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                        > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                        > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                        > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                        > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                        > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                        > > > I am sure do as well.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                        > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                        > > > com
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > be well,
                        > > > > > jamey
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                        > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                        > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                        > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                        > > > > > > To:
                        > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                        > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                        > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                        > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                        > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                        > > > information:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                        > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                        > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                        > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                        > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                        > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                        > > > tion.html>
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                        > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                        > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                        > > > subscription fees.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                        > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                        > > > which you are referring in your post?
                        > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                        > > > m/current.htm>
                        > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                        > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                        > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                        > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                        > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                        > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                        > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                        > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                        > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                        > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                        > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                        > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                        > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                        > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                        > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                        > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                        > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                        > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                        > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                        > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                        > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                        > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                        > > > Cave'.
                        > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                        > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                        > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                        > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                        > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                        > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                        > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                        > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                        > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                        > > > other professional fields of research.
                        > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                        > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                        > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                        > > > S&H.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                        > > > and unique. Scott
                        > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                        > > > of the
                        > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                        > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                        > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                        > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                        > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > FYI,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                        > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • james m clark jr
                        ...notes continued Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc. WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 3, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ...notes continued


                          Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.

                          WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]



                          Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew, Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?

                          In the old world:

                          It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.

                          "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).


                          As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                          Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.

                          Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...

                          "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                          -Polydore Vergil

                          "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)

                          "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)

                          According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia

                          Roma people may refer to:

                          Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                          Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.

                          This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."

                          The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                          A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.


                          It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                          war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.


                          "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                          in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                          hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                          misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                          will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                          was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)

                          "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                          their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                          ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                          1948-1967.

                          http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm

                          39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                          a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                          this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.


                          Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                          intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                          Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.

                          Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                          "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                          Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                          Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages


                          Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                          either.

                          The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                          www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010

                          Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                          had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.

                          Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?

                          Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                          www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne

                          The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                          books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...

                          From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                          ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                          who was he?


                          Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                          there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...

                          Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                          healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.

                          Question -
                          Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                          of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                          You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.

                          Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?

                          As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                          King Lear Linus?
                          So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                          that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.

                          My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:

                          If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                          who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!

                          Concerning outposts:

                          Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                          That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                          this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                          much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                          baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.

                          I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.

                          Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                          at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:

                          "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.

                          The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                          Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.


                          In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                          Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                          story.

                          rest at:

                          http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html


                          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello lo lo lo,
                          >
                          > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                          >
                          > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                          > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                          >
                          > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                          >
                          > How true is this assumption?
                          >
                          > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                          >
                          > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                          >
                          > Historically speaking...
                          >
                          > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of Roman Clemency."
                          > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                          >
                          > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                          >
                          > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                          >
                          > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                          >
                          > be well,
                          > jamey
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Correction:
                          > >
                          > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                          > >
                          > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                          > >
                          > > be well,
                          > > jamey
                          > >
                          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                          > > >
                          > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                          > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                          > > >
                          > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                          > > >
                          > > > be well,
                          > > > jamey
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Jamey, All,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                          > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                          > > > > week, 2009:
                          > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                          > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                          > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                          > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                          > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                          > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                          > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                          > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                          > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                          > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                          > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                          > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                          > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                          > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                          > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                          > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                          > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                          > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                          > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                          > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                          > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                          > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                          > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                          > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                          > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                          > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                          > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                          > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                          > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                          > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                          > > > > those before him.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > be well,
                          > > > > > jamey
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                          > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                          > > > > > > search #1511
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                          > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                          > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                          > > > > web site.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                          > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                          > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                          > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                          > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                          > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                          > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                          > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                          > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                          > > > > I am sure do as well.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                          > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                          > > > > com
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > be well,
                          > > > > > > jamey
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                          > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                          > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                          > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                          > > > > > > > To:
                          > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                          > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                          > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                          > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                          > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                          > > > > information:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                          > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                          > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                          > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                          > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                          > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                          > > > > tion.html>
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                          > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                          > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                          > > > > subscription fees.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                          > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                          > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                          > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                          > > > > m/current.htm>
                          > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                          > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                          > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                          > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                          > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                          > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                          > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                          > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                          > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                          > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                          > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                          > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                          > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                          > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                          > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                          > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                          > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                          > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                          > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                          > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                          > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                          > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                          > > > > Cave'.
                          > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                          > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                          > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                          > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                          > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                          > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                          > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                          > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                          > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                          > > > > other professional fields of research.
                          > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                          > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                          > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                          > > > > S&H.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                          > > > > and unique. Scott
                          > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                          > > > > of the
                          > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                          > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                          > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                          > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                          > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > FYI,
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                          > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Martin Carriere
                          Hey Jamey, Just a question. Are you one of Clarke s descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?   Best, Martin Good range of info you sent.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 3, 2011
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                            Hey Jamey,
                            Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                             
                            Best,
                            Martin
                            Good range of info you sent.
                             

                            --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:

                            From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                            Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM

                             
                            ...notes continued

                            Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.

                            WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]

                            Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew, Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?

                            In the old world:

                            It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.

                            "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).

                            As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                            Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.

                            Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...

                            "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                            -Polydore Vergil

                            "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)

                            "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)

                            According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia

                            Roma people may refer to:

                            Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                            Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.

                            This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."

                            The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                            A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.

                            It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                            war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.

                            "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                            in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                            hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                            misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                            will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                            was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)

                            "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                            their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                            ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                            1948-1967.

                            http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm

                            39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                            a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                            this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.

                            Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                            intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                            Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.

                            Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                            "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                            Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                            Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages

                            Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                            either.

                            The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                            www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010

                            Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                            had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.

                            Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?

                            Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                            www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne

                            The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                            books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...

                            From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                            ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                            who was he?

                            Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                            there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...

                            Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                            healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.

                            Question -
                            Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                            of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                            You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.

                            Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?

                            As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                            King Lear Linus?
                            So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                            that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.

                            My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:

                            If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                            who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!

                            Concerning outposts:

                            Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                            That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                            this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                            much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                            baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.

                            I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.

                            Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                            at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:

                            "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.

                            The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                            Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.

                            In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                            Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                            story.

                            rest at:

                            http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html

                            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello lo lo lo,
                            >
                            > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                            >
                            > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                            > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                            >
                            > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                            >
                            > How true is this assumption?
                            >
                            > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                            >
                            > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                            >
                            > Historically speaking...
                            >
                            > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of Roman Clemency."
                            > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                            >
                            > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                            >
                            > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                            >
                            > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                            >
                            > be well,
                            > jamey
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Correction:
                            > >
                            > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                            > >
                            > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                            > >
                            > > be well,
                            > > jamey
                            > >
                            > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                            > > >
                            > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                            > > >
                            > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                            > > >
                            > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                            > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                            > > >
                            > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                            > > >
                            > > > be well,
                            > > > jamey
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jamey, All,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                            > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                            > > > > week, 2009:
                            > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                            > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                            > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                            > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                            > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                            > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                            > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                            > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                            > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                            > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                            > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                            > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                            > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                            > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                            > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                            > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                            > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                            > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                            > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                            > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                            > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                            > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                            > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                            > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                            > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                            > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                            > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                            > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                            > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                            > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                            > > > > those before him.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > be well,
                            > > > > > jamey
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                            > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                            > > > > > > search #1511
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                            > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                            > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                            > > > > web site.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                            > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                            > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                            > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                            > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                            > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                            > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                            > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                            > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                            > > > > I am sure do as well.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                            > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                            > > > > com
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > be well,
                            > > > > > > jamey
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                            > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                            > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                            > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                            > > > > > > > To:
                            > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                            > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                            > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                            > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                            > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                            > > > > information:
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                            > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                            > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                            > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                            > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                            > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                            > > > > tion.html>
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                            > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                            > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                            > > > > subscription fees.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                            > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                            > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                            > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                            > > > > m/current.htm>
                            > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                            > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                            > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                            > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                            > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                            > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                            > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                            > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                            > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                            > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                            > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                            > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                            > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                            > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                            > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                            > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                            > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                            > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                            > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                            > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                            > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                            > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                            > > > > Cave'.
                            > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                            > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                            > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                            > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                            > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                            > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                            > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                            > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                            > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                            > > > > other professional fields of research.
                            > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                            > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                            > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                            > > > > S&H.
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                            > > > > and unique. Scott
                            > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                            > > > > of the
                            > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                            > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                            > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                            > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                            > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > FYI,
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                            > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • james m clark jr
                            Not that I know of Martin. Even from the Engish Clark s perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 3, 2011
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                              Not that I know of Martin.

                              Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.

                              Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.

                              be well,
                              jamey

                              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hey Jamey,
                              > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                              >  
                              > Best,
                              > Martin
                              >
                              > Good range of info you sent.
                              >  
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                              > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                              > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                              > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ...notes continued
                              >
                              > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                              >
                              > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                              >
                              > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                              > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                              >
                              > In the old world:
                              >
                              > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                              >
                              > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                              >
                              > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                              > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                              >
                              > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                              >
                              > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                              > -Polydore Vergil
                              >
                              > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                              >
                              > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                              >
                              > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                              >
                              > Roma people may refer to:
                              >
                              > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                              > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                              >
                              > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                              >
                              > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                              > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                              >
                              > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                              > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                              >
                              > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                              > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                              > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                              > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                              > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                              > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                              >
                              > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                              > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                              > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                              > 1948-1967.
                              >
                              > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                              >
                              > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                              > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                              > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                              >
                              > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                              > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                              > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                              >
                              > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                              > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                              > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                              > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                              >
                              > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                              > either.
                              >
                              > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                              > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                              >
                              > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                              > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                              >
                              > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                              >
                              > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                              > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                              >
                              > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                              > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                              >
                              > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                              > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                              > who was he?
                              >
                              > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                              > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                              >
                              > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                              > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                              >
                              > Question -
                              > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                              > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                              > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                              >
                              > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                              >
                              > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                              > King Lear Linus?
                              > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                              > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                              >
                              > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                              >
                              > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                              > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                              >
                              > Concerning outposts:
                              >
                              > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                              > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                              > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                              > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                              > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                              >
                              > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                              >
                              > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                              > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                              >
                              > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                              >
                              > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                              > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                              >
                              > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                              > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                              > story.
                              >
                              > rest at:
                              >
                              > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                              >
                              > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello lo lo lo,
                              > >
                              > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                              > >
                              > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                              > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                              > >
                              > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                              > >
                              > > How true is this assumption?
                              > >
                              > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                              > >
                              > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                              > >
                              > > Historically speaking...
                              > >
                              > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of
                              > Roman Clemency."
                              > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                              > >
                              > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                              > >
                              > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                              > >
                              > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                              > >
                              > > be well,
                              > > jamey
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Correction:
                              > > >
                              > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                              > > >
                              > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                              > > >
                              > > > be well,
                              > > > jamey
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                              > > > >
                              > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                              > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > be well,
                              > > > > jamey
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Jamey, All,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                              > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                              > > > > > week, 2009:
                              > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                              > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                              > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                              > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                              > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                              > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                              > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                              > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                              > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                              > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                              > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                              > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                              > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                              > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                              > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                              > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                              > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                              > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                              > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                              > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                              > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                              > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                              > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                              > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                              > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                              > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                              > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                              > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                              > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                              > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                              > > > > > those before him.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > be well,
                              > > > > > > jamey
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                              > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                              > > > > > > > search #1511
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                              > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                              > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                              > > > > > web site.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                              > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                              > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                              > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                              > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                              > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                              > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                              > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                              > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                              > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                              > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                              > > > > > com
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > be well,
                              > > > > > > > jamey
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                              > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                              > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                              > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                              > > > > > > > > To:
                              > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                              > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                              > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                              > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                              > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                              > > > > > information:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                              > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                              > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                              > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                              > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                              > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                              > > > > > tion.html>
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                              > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                              > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                              > > > > > subscription fees.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                              > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                              > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                              > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                              > > > > > m/current.htm>
                              > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                              > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                              > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                              > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                              > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                              > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                              > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                              > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                              > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                              > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                              > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                              > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                              > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                              > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                              > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                              > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                              > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                              > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                              > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                              > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                              > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                              > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                              > > > > > Cave'.
                              > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                              > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                              > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                              > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                              > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                              > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                              > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                              > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                              > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                              > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                              > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                              > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                              > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                              > > > > > S&H.
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                              > > > > > and unique. Scott
                              > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                              > > > > > of the
                              > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                              > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                              > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                              > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                              > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                              > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Martin Carriere
                              Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  

                                --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:

                                From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM

                                 
                                Not that I know of Martin.

                                Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.

                                Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.

                                be well,
                                jamey

                                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hey Jamey,
                                > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                >  
                                > Best,
                                > Martin
                                >
                                > Good range of info you sent.
                                >  
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ...notes continued
                                >
                                > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                >
                                > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                >
                                > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                >
                                > In the old world:
                                >
                                > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                >
                                > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                >
                                > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                >
                                > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                >
                                > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                > -Polydore Vergil
                                >
                                > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                >
                                > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                >
                                > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                >
                                > Roma people may refer to:
                                >
                                > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                >
                                > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                >
                                > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                >
                                > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                >
                                > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                >
                                > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                > 1948-1967.
                                >
                                > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                >
                                > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                >
                                > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                >
                                > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                >
                                > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                > either.
                                >
                                > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                >
                                > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                >
                                > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                >
                                > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                >
                                > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                >
                                > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                > who was he?
                                >
                                > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                >
                                > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                >
                                > Question -
                                > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                >
                                > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                >
                                > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                > King Lear Linus?
                                > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                >
                                > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                >
                                > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                >
                                > Concerning outposts:
                                >
                                > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                >
                                > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                >
                                > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                >
                                > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                >
                                > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                >
                                > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                > story.
                                >
                                > rest at:
                                >
                                > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                >
                                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                > >
                                > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                > >
                                > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                > >
                                > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                > >
                                > > How true is this assumption?
                                > >
                                > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                > >
                                > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                > >
                                > > Historically speaking...
                                > >
                                > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of
                                > Roman Clemency."
                                > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                > >
                                > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                > >
                                > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                > >
                                > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                > >
                                > > be well,
                                > > jamey
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Correction:
                                > > >
                                > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                > > >
                                > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                > > >
                                > > > be well,
                                > > > jamey
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                > > > >
                                > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > be well,
                                > > > > jamey
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                > > > > > week, 2009:
                                > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                > > > > > those before him.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > be well,
                                > > > > > > jamey
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                > > > > > > > search #1511
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                > > > > > web site.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                > > > > > com
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > be well,
                                > > > > > > > jamey
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                > > > > > > > > To:
                                > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                > > > > > information:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                > > > > > tion.html>
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                > > > > > subscription fees.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                > > > > > Cave'.
                                > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                > > > > > S&H.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                > > > > > of the
                                > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >


                              • james m clark jr
                                The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.

                                  be well,
                                  jmcjr

                                  The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.

                                  Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.

                                  The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                  Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion

                                  While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.

                                  The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.

                                  http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do

                                  Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.

                                  If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.


                                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                  >
                                  > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                  > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                  > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Not that I know of Martin.
                                  >
                                  > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                  >
                                  > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                  >
                                  > be well,
                                  > jamey
                                  >
                                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hey Jamey,
                                  > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                  > >  
                                  > > Best,
                                  > > Martin
                                  > >
                                  > > Good range of info you sent.
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                  > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                  > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ...notes continued
                                  > >
                                  > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                  > >
                                  > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                  > >
                                  > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                  > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                  > >
                                  > > In the old world:
                                  > >
                                  > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                  > >
                                  > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                  > >
                                  > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                  > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                  > >
                                  > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                  > >
                                  > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                  > > -Polydore Vergil
                                  > >
                                  > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                  > >
                                  > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                  > >
                                  > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                  > >
                                  > > Roma people may refer to:
                                  > >
                                  > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                  > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                  > >
                                  > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                  > >
                                  > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                  > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                  > >
                                  > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                  > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                  > >
                                  > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                  > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                  > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                  > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                  > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                  > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                  > >
                                  > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                  > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                  > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                  > > 1948-1967.
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                  > >
                                  > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                  > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                  > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                  > >
                                  > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                  > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                  > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                  > >
                                  > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                  > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                  > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                  > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                  > >
                                  > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                  > > either.
                                  > >
                                  > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                  > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                  > >
                                  > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                  > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                  > >
                                  > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                  > >
                                  > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                  > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                  > >
                                  > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                  > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                  > >
                                  > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                  > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                  > > who was he?
                                  > >
                                  > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                  > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                  > >
                                  > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                  > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                  > >
                                  > > Question -
                                  > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                  > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                  > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                  > >
                                  > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                  > >
                                  > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                  > > King Lear Linus?
                                  > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                  > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                  > >
                                  > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                  > >
                                  > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                  > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                  > >
                                  > > Concerning outposts:
                                  > >
                                  > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                  > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                  > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                  > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                  > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                  > >
                                  > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                  > >
                                  > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                  > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                  > >
                                  > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                  > >
                                  > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                  > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                  > >
                                  > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                  > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                  > > story.
                                  > >
                                  > > rest at:
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                  > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                  > > >
                                  > > > How true is this assumption?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Historically speaking...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of
                                  > > Roman Clemency."
                                  > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                  > > >
                                  > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > be well,
                                  > > > jamey
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Correction:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > be well,
                                  > > > > jamey
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                  > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > be well,
                                  > > > > > jamey
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                  > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                  > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                  > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                  > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                  > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                  > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                  > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                  > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                  > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                  > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                  > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                  > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                  > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                  > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                  > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                  > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                  > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                  > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                  > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                  > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                  > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                  > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                  > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                  > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                  > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                  > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                  > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                  > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                  > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                  > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                  > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                  > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                  > > > > > > those before him.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > be well,
                                  > > > > > > > jamey
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                  > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                  > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                  > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                  > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                  > > > > > > web site.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                  > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                  > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                  > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                  > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                  > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                  > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                  > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                  > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                  > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                  > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                  > > > > > > com
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > be well,
                                  > > > > > > > > jamey
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                  > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                  > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                  > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                  > > > > > > > > > To:
                                  > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                  > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                  > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                  > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                  > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                  > > > > > > information:
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                  > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                  > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                  > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                  > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                  > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                  > > > > > > tion.html>
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                  > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                  > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                  > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                  > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                  > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                  > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                  > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                  > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                  > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                  > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                  > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                  > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                  > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                  > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                  > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                  > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                  > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                  > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                  > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                  > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                  > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                  > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                  > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                  > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                  > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                  > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                  > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                  > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                  > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                  > > > > > > Cave'.
                                  > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                  > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                  > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                  > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                  > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                  > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                  > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                  > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                  > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                  > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                  > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                  > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                  > > > > > > S&H.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                  > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                  > > > > > > of the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                  > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                  > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
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                                • Martin Carriere
                                  Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                     
                                    All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                     
                                    Martin Carriere

                                    --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:

                                    From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                    Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                    To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM

                                     
                                    The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.

                                    be well,
                                    jmcjr

                                    The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.

                                    Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.

                                    The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                    Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.

                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion

                                    While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.

                                    The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.

                                    http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do

                                    Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.

                                    If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.

                                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                    >
                                    > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                    > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                    > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Not that I know of Martin.
                                    >
                                    > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                    >
                                    > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                    >
                                    > be well,
                                    > jamey
                                    >
                                    > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hey Jamey,
                                    > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                    > >  
                                    > > Best,
                                    > > Martin
                                    > >
                                    > > Good range of info you sent.
                                    > >  
                                    > >
                                    > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                    > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                    > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ...notes continued
                                    > >
                                    > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                    > >
                                    > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                    > >
                                    > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                    > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                    > >
                                    > > In the old world:
                                    > >
                                    > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                    > >
                                    > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                    > >
                                    > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                    > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                    > >
                                    > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                    > >
                                    > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                    > > -Polydore Vergil
                                    > >
                                    > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                    > >
                                    > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                    > >
                                    > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                    > >
                                    > > Roma people may refer to:
                                    > >
                                    > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                    > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                    > >
                                    > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                    > >
                                    > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                    > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                    > >
                                    > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                    > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                    > >
                                    > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                    > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                    > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                    > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                    > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                    > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                    > >
                                    > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                    > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                    > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                    > > 1948-1967.
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                    > >
                                    > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                    > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                    > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                    > >
                                    > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                    > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                    > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                    > >
                                    > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                    > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                    > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                    > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                    > >
                                    > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                    > > either.
                                    > >
                                    > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                    > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                    > >
                                    > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                    > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                    > >
                                    > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                    > >
                                    > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                    > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                    > >
                                    > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                    > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                    > >
                                    > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                    > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                    > > who was he?
                                    > >
                                    > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                    > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                    > >
                                    > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                    > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                    > >
                                    > > Question -
                                    > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                    > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                    > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                    > >
                                    > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                    > >
                                    > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                    > > King Lear Linus?
                                    > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                    > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                    > >
                                    > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                    > >
                                    > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                    > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                    > >
                                    > > Concerning outposts:
                                    > >
                                    > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                    > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the Baptistère Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                    > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                    > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                    > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                    > >
                                    > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                    > >
                                    > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                    > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                    > >
                                    > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                    > >
                                    > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                    > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                    > >
                                    > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                    > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                    > > story.
                                    > >
                                    > > rest at:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                    > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                    > > >
                                    > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How true is this assumption?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Historically speaking...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example of
                                    > > Roman Clemency."
                                    > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > be well,
                                    > > > jamey
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Correction:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > be well,
                                    > > > > jamey
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                    > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > be well,
                                    > > > > > jamey
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                    > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                    > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                    > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                    > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                    > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                    > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                    > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                    > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                    > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                    > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                    > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                    > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                    > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                    > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                    > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                    > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                    > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                    > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                    > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                    > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                    > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                    > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                    > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                    > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                    > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                    > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                    > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                    > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                    > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                    > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                    > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                    > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                    > > > > > > those before him.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > be well,
                                    > > > > > > > jamey
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                    > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                    > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                    > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                    > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                    > > > > > > web site.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                    > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                    > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                    > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                    > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                    > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                    > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                    > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                    > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                    > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                    > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                    > > > > > > com
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > be well,
                                    > > > > > > > > jamey
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                    > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                    > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                    > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                    > > > > > > > > > To:
                                    > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                    > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                    > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                    > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                    > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                    > > > > > > information:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                    > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                    > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                    > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                    > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                    > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                    > > > > > > tion.html>
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                    > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                    > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                    > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                    > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                    > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                    > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                    > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                    > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                    > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                    > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                    > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                    > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                    > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                    > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                    > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                    > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                    > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                    > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                    > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                    > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                    > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                    > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                    > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                    > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                    > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                    > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                    > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                    > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                    > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                    > > > > > > Cave'.
                                    > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                    > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                    > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                    > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                    > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                    > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                    > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                    > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                    > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                    > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                    > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                    > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                    > > > > > > S&H.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                    > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                    > > > > > > of the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                    > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                    > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • james m clark jr
                                    Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I m
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.

                                      be well,
                                      jamey


                                      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                      >  
                                      > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                      >  
                                      > Martin Carriere
                                      >
                                      > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                      > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                      > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                      >
                                      > be well,
                                      > jmcjr
                                      >
                                      > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                      >
                                      > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                      >
                                      > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                      > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                      >
                                      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                      >
                                      > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                      >
                                      > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                      >
                                      > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                      >
                                      > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                      >
                                      > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                      >
                                      > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                      > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                      > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >  
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                      > >
                                      > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                      > >
                                      > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                      > >
                                      > > be well,
                                      > > jamey
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hey Jamey,
                                      > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                      > > >  
                                      > > > Best,
                                      > > > Martin
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                      > > >  
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                      > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                      > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >  
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ...notes continued
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                      > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In the old world:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                      > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                      > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                      > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                      > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                      > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                      > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                      > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                      > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                      > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                      > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                      > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                      > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                      > > > 1948-1967.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                      > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                      > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                      > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                      > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                      > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                      > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                      > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                      > > > either.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                      > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                      > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                      > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                      > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                      > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                      > > > who was he?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                      > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                      > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Question -
                                      > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                      > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                      > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                      > > > King Lear Linus?
                                      > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                      > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                      > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Concerning outposts:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                      > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                      > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                      > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                      > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                      > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                      > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                      > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                      > > > story.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > rest at:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                      > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Historically speaking...
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example
                                      > of
                                      > > > Roman Clemency."
                                      > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > be well,
                                      > > > > jamey
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Correction:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > be well,
                                      > > > > > jamey
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                      > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > be well,
                                      > > > > > > jamey
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                      > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                      > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                      > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                      > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                      > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                      > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                      > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                      > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                      > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                      > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                      > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                      > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                      > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                      > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                      > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                      > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                      > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                      > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                      > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                      > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                      > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                      > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                      > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                      > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                      > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                      > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                      > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                      > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                      > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                      > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                      > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                      > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                      > > > > > > > those before him.
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > be well,
                                      > > > > > > > > jamey
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                      > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                      > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                      > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                      > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                      > > > > > > > web site.
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                      > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                      > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                      > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                      > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                      > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                      > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                      > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                      > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                      > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                      > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                      > > > > > > > com
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                      > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                      > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                      > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                      > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                      > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                      > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                      > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                      > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                      > > > > > > > information:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                      > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                      > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                      > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                      > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                      > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                      > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                      > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                      > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                      > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                      > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                      > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                      > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                      > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                      > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                      > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                      > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                      > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                      > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                      > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                      > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                      > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                      > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                      > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                      > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                      > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                      > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                      > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                      > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                      > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                      > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                      > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                      > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                      > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                      > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                      > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                      > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                      > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                      > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                      > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                      > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                      > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                      > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                      > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                      > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                      > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                      > > > > > > > S&H.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                      > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                      > > > > > > > of the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Martin Carriere
                                      Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                         
                                        All our best to all,
                                         
                                        Love and blessings,
                                         
                                        Martiin 
                                         


                                        --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:

                                        From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                        Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM

                                         
                                        Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.

                                        be well,
                                        jamey

                                        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                        >  
                                        > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                        >  
                                        > Martin Carriere
                                        >
                                        > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                        > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                        > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                        >
                                        > be well,
                                        > jmcjr
                                        >
                                        > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                        >
                                        > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                        >
                                        > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                        > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                        >
                                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                        >
                                        > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                        >
                                        > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                        >
                                        > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                        >
                                        > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                        >
                                        > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                        >
                                        > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                        > >
                                        > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                        > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                        > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >  
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                        > >
                                        > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                        > >
                                        > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                        > >
                                        > > be well,
                                        > > jamey
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hey Jamey,
                                        > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                        > > >  
                                        > > > Best,
                                        > > > Martin
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                        > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                        > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ...notes continued
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                        > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In the old world:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                        > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                        > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                        > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                        > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                        > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                        > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                        > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                        > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                        > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                        > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                        > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                        > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                        > > > 1948-1967.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                        > > >
                                        > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                        > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                        > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                        > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                        > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                        > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                        > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                        > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                        > > > either.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                        > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                        > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                        > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                        > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                        > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                        > > > who was he?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                        > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                        > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Question -
                                        > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                        > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                        > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                        > > > King Lear Linus?
                                        > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                        > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                        > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Concerning outposts:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                        > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                        > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                        > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                        > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                        > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                        > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                        > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                        > > > story.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > rest at:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                        > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Historically speaking...
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example
                                        > of
                                        > > > Roman Clemency."
                                        > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > be well,
                                        > > > > jamey
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Correction:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > be well,
                                        > > > > > jamey
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                        > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > be well,
                                        > > > > > > jamey
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                        > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                        > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                        > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                        > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                        > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                        > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                        > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                        > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                        > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                        > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                        > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                        > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                        > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                        > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                        > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                        > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                        > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                        > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                        > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                        > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                        > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                        > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                        > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                        > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                        > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                        > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                        > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                        > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                        > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                        > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                        > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                        > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                        > > > > > > > those before him.
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > be well,
                                        > > > > > > > > jamey
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                        > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                        > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                        > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                        > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                        > > > > > > > web site.
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                        > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                        > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                        > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                        > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                        > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                        > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                        > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                        > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                        > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                        > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                        > > > > > > > com
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                        > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                        > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                        > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                        > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                        > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                        > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                        > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                        > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                        > > > > > > > information:
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                        > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                        > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                        > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                        > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                        > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                        > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                        > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                        > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                        > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                        > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                        > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                        > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                        > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                        > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                        > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                        > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                        > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                        > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                        > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                        > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                        > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                        > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                        > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                        > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                        > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                        > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                        > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                        > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                        > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                        > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                        > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                        > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                        > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                        > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                        > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                        > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                        > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                        > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                        > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                        > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                        > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                        > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                        > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                        > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                        > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                        > > > > > > > S&H.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                        > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                        > > > > > > > of the
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >


                                      • james m clark jr
                                        I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I m not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn t take more than a month of
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.

                                          be well,
                                          jamey

                                          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                          >  
                                          > All our best to all,
                                          >  
                                          > Love and blessings,
                                          >  
                                          > Martin 
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                          > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                          > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                          >
                                          > be well,
                                          > jamey
                                          >
                                          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                          > >  
                                          > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                          > >  
                                          > > Martin Carriere
                                          > >
                                          > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                          > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                          > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >  
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                          > >
                                          > > be well,
                                          > > jmcjr
                                          > >
                                          > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                          > >
                                          > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                          > >
                                          > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                          > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                          > >
                                          > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                          > >
                                          > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                          > >
                                          > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                          > >
                                          > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                          > >
                                          > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                          > >
                                          > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                          > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                          > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >  
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > be well,
                                          > > > jamey
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                          > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                          > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                          > > > > Best,
                                          > > > > Martin
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                          > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                          > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                          > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ...notes continued
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                          > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In the old world:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                          > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                          > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                          > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                          > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                          > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                          > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                          > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                          > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                          > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                          > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                          > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                          > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                          > > > > 1948-1967.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                          > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                          > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                          > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                          > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                          > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                          > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                          > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                          > > > > either.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                          > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                          > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                          > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                          > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                          > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                          > > > > who was he?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                          > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                          > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Question -
                                          > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                          > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                          > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                          > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                          > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                          > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                          > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                          > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'Æ'¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                          > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                          > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                          > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                          > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                          > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                          > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                          > > > > story.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > rest at:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                          > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                          > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > be well,
                                          > > > > > jamey
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Correction:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > be well,
                                          > > > > > > jamey
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                          > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > be well,
                                          > > > > > > > jamey
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                          > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                          > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                          > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                          > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                          > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                          > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                          > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                          > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                          > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                          > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                          > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                          > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                          > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                          > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                          > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                          > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                          > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                          > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                          > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                          > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                          > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                          > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                          > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                          > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                          > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                          > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                          > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                          > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                          > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                          > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                          > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                          > > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                          > > > > > > > > those before him.
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                          > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                          > > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                          > > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                          > > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                          > > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                          > > > > > > > > web site.
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                          > > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                          > > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                          > > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                          > > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                          > > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                          > > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                          > > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                          > > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                          > > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                          > > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                          > > > > > > > > com
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                          > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                          > > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                          > > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                          > > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                          > > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                          > > > > > > > > information:
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                          > > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                          > > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                          > > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                          > > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                          > > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                          > > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                          > > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                          > > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                          > > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                          > > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                          > > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                          > > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                          > > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                          > > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                          > > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                          > > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                          > > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                          > > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                          > > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                          > > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                          > > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                          > > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                          > > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                          > > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                          > > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                          > > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                          > > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                          > > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                          > > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                          > > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                          > > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                          > > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                          > > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                          > > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                          > > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                          > > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                          > > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                          > > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                          > > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                          > > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                          > > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                          > > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                          > > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                          > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                          > > > > > > > > S&H.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                          > > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                          > > > > > > > > of the
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                          > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Martin Carriere
                                          It s been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            It's been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they were the first in many things so we never know where they will pop up next.
                                             
                                            All our love
                                             
                                            Martin et al.
                                             


                                            --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:

                                            From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                            Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                            Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 11:38 PM

                                             
                                            I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.

                                            be well,
                                            jamey

                                            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                            >  
                                            > All our best to all,
                                            >  
                                            > Love and blessings,
                                            >  
                                            > Martin 
                                            >  
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                            > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                            > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >  
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                            >
                                            > be well,
                                            > jamey
                                            >
                                            > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                            > >  
                                            > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                            > >  
                                            > > Martin Carriere
                                            > >
                                            > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                            > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                            > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >  
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                            > >
                                            > > be well,
                                            > > jmcjr
                                            > >
                                            > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                            > >
                                            > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                            > >
                                            > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                            > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                            > >
                                            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                            > >
                                            > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                            > >
                                            > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                            > >
                                            > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                            > >
                                            > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                            > >
                                            > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope that even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that these  blindly racist empires often perpetuate.  
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                            > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                            > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >  
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > be well,
                                            > > > jamey
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                            > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                            > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                            > > > > Best,
                                            > > > > Martin
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                            > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                            > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                            > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ...notes continued
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French Jew,
                                            > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > In the old world:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                            > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                            > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                            > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                            > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                            > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                            > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                            > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                            > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                            > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                            > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                            > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                            > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                            > > > > 1948-1967.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                            > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                            > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                            > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                            > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                            > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                            > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                            > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                            > > > > either.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                            > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                            > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                            > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                            > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                            > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                            > > > > who was he?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                            > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                            > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Question -
                                            > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                            > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                            > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                            > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                            > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                            > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                            > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                            > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'Æ'¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                            > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                            > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                            > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                            > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                            > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                            > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                            > > > > story.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > rest at:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                            > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one example
                                            > > of
                                            > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                            > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > be well,
                                            > > > > > jamey
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Correction:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > be well,
                                            > > > > > > jamey
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                            > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > be well,
                                            > > > > > > > jamey
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                            > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                            > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                            > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                            > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                            > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                            > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                            > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                            > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                            > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                            > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                            > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                            > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                            > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                            > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                            > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                            > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                            > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                            > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                            > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                            > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                            > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                            > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                            > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                            > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                            > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                            > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                            > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                            > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                            > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                            > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                            > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                            > > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                            > > > > > > > > those before him.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                            > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                            > > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                            > > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                            > > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                            > > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                            > > > > > > > > web site.
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                            > > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                            > > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                            > > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                            > > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                            > > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                            > > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                            > > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                            > > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                            > > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                            > > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                            > > > > > > > > com
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                            > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                            > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                            > > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                            > > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                            > > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                            > > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                            > > > > > > > > information:
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                            > > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                            > > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                            > > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                            > > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                            > > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                            > > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                            > > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                            > > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                            > > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                            > > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                            > > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                            > > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                            > > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                            > > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                            > > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                            > > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                            > > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                            > > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                            > > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                            > > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                            > > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                            > > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                            > > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                            > > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                            > > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                            > > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                            > > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                            > > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                            > > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                            > > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                            > > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                            > > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                            > > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                            > > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                            > > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                            > > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                            > > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                            > > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                            > > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                            > > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                            > > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                            > > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                            > > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                            > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                            > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                            > > > > > > > > S&H.
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                            > > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                            > > > > > > > > > > > &g

                                            (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
                                          • james m clark jr
                                            I ve never been in any Order of the Brotherhood. I haven t heard that tune in two decades. I guess I could say I know of a few in admireing posiosions. If I
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I've never been in any Order of the Brotherhood. I haven't heard that tune in two decades. I guess I could say I know of a few in admireing posiosions. If I ever join an Order you are the first to know that I will be a persistant zelot to putting an end to such misery on behalf of the people who have suffer.

                                              be well,
                                              jamey

                                              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > It's been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they were the first in many things so we never know where they will pop up next.
                                              >  
                                              > All our love
                                              >  
                                              > Martin et al.
                                              >  
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@...>
                                              > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                              > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >  
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.
                                              >
                                              > be well,
                                              > jamey
                                              >
                                              > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                              > >  
                                              > > All our best to all,
                                              > >  
                                              > > Love and blessings,
                                              > >  
                                              > > Martin 
                                              > >  
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                              > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                              > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >  
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                              > >
                                              > > be well,
                                              > > jamey
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                              > > >  
                                              > > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                              > > >  
                                              > > > Martin Carriere
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                              > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                              > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >  
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > be well,
                                              > > > jmcjr
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                              > > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                              > > >
                                              > > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope thatÃÆ'‚ even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that theseÃÆ'‚  blindly racist empires often perpetuate. ÃÆ'‚ 
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                              > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                              > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > jamey
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                              > > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                              > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                              > > > > > Best,
                                              > > > > > Martin
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                              > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                              > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                              > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > ...notes continued
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French
                                              > Jew,
                                              > > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > In the old world:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                              > > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                              > > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                              > > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                              > > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                              > > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                              > > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                              > > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                              > > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                              > > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                              > > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                              > > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                              > > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                              > > > > > 1948-1967.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                              > > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                              > > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                              > > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                              > > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                              > > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                              > > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                              > > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                              > > > > > either.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                              > > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                              > > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                              > > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                              > > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                              > > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                              > > > > > who was he?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                              > > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                              > > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Question -
                                              > > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                              > > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                              > > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                              > > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                              > > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                              > > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                              > > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                              > > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                              > > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                              > > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                              > > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                              > > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                              > > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                              > > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                              > > > > > story.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > rest at:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                              > > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one
                                              > example
                                              > > > of
                                              > > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                              > > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > > > jamey
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Correction:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > > > > jamey
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                              > > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > > > > > jamey
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                              > > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                              > > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                              > > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                              > > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                              > > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                              > > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                              > > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                              > > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                              > > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                              > > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                              > > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                              > > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                              > > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                              > > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                              > > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                              > > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                              > > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                              > > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                              > > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                              > > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                              > > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                              > > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                              > > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                              > > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                              > > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                              > > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                              > > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                              > > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                              > > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                              > > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                              > > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                              > > > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                              > > > > > > > > > those before him.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                              > > > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                              > > > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                              > > > > > > > > > web site.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                              > > > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                              > > > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                              > > > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                              > > > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                              > > > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                              > > > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                              > > > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                              > > > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                              > > > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                              > > > > > > > > > com
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                              > > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                              > > > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                              > > > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                              > > > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                              > > > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                              > > > > > > > > > information:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                              > > > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                              > > > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                              > > > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                              > > > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                              > > > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                              > > > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                              > > > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                              > > > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                              > > > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                              > > > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                              > > > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                              > > > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                              > > > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                              > > > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                              > > > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                              > > > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                              > > > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                              > > > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                              > > > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                              > > > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                              > > > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                              > > > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                              > > > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                              > > > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                              > > > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                              > > > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                              > > > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                              > > > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                              > > > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                              > > > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                              > > > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                              > > > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                              > > > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                              > > > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                              > > > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                              > > > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                              > > > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                              > > > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                              > > > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                              > > > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                              > > > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                              > > > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                              > > > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                              > > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                              > > > > > > > > > S&H.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                              > > > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                              > > > > > > > > > of the
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • james m clark jr
                                              Any suggestions to which Order I should join? be well, jamey
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Any suggestions to which Order I should join?

                                                be well,
                                                jamey

                                                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I've never been in any Order of the Brotherhood. I haven't heard that tune in two decades. I guess I could say I know of a few in admireing posiosions. If I ever join an Order you are the first to know that I will be a persistant zelot to putting an end to such misery on behalf of the people who have suffer[ed].
                                                >
                                                > be well,
                                                > jamey
                                                >
                                                > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > It's been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they were the first in many things so we never know where they will pop up next.
                                                > >  
                                                > > All our love
                                                > >  
                                                > > Martin et al.
                                                > >  
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >  
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.
                                                > >
                                                > > be well,
                                                > > jamey
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                                > > >  
                                                > > > All our best to all,
                                                > > >  
                                                > > > Love and blessings,
                                                > > >  
                                                > > > Martin 
                                                > > >  
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >  
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > be well,
                                                > > > jamey
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                                > > > >  
                                                > > > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                                > > > >  
                                                > > > > Martin Carriere
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >  
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > jmcjr
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                                > > > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope thatÃÆ'‚ even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that theseÃÆ'‚  blindly racist empires often perpetuate. ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                                > > > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                                > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                > > > > > > Best,
                                                > > > > > > Martin
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                                > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > ...notes continued
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French
                                                > > Jew,
                                                > > > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In the old world:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                                > > > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                                > > > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                                > > > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                                > > > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                                > > > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                                > > > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                                > > > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                                > > > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                                > > > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                                > > > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                                > > > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                                > > > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                                > > > > > > 1948-1967.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                                > > > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                                > > > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                                > > > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                                > > > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                                > > > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                                > > > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                                > > > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                                > > > > > > either.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                                > > > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                                > > > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                                > > > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                                > > > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                                > > > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                                > > > > > > who was he?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                                > > > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                                > > > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Question -
                                                > > > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                                > > > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                                > > > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                                > > > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                                > > > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                                > > > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                                > > > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                                > > > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                                > > > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                                > > > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                                > > > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                                > > > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                                > > > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                                > > > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                                > > > > > > story.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > rest at:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                                > > > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one
                                                > > example
                                                > > > > of
                                                > > > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                                > > > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Correction:
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                                > > > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                                > > > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                                > > > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                                > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                                > > > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                                > > > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                                > > > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                                > > > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                                > > > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                                > > > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                                > > > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                                > > > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                                > > > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                                > > > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                                > > > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                                > > > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                                > > > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                                > > > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                                > > > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                                > > > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                                > > > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                                > > > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                                > > > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                                > > > > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                                > > > > > > > > > > those before him.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                                > > > > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                                > > > > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                                > > > > > > > > > > web site.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                                > > > > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                                > > > > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                                > > > > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                                > > > > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                                > > > > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                                > > > > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                                > > > > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                                > > > > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                                > > > > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > com
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                                > > > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                                > > > > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                                > > > > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                > > > > > > > > > > information:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                                > > > > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                                > > > > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnection.\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > html<http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/cherokeeisraelconnec\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > tion.html>
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been a subscriber to Ancient American since its beginnings,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > assisted the staff with their conferences in Utah in the mid-to late
                                                > > > > > > > > > > nineties, and you mention of the magazine reminds me I am overdue in
                                                > > > > > > > > > > subscription fees.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current listing on Anceint American web site is Vol. 13 Issue
                                                > > > > > > > > > > #83 with Ohio's Great Serpent Mound on the cover. Is this the issue to
                                                > > > > > > > > > > which you are referring in your post?
                                                > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ancientamerican.com/current.htm<http://www.ancientamerican.co\
                                                > > > > > > > > > > m/current.htm>
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > The magazine will be a quarterly publication now rather than six
                                                > > > > > > > > > > times a year, well worth subscribing to, and, in my opinion is unmatched
                                                > > > > > > > > > > in interconnecting the public with researchrs, writers who plunge into
                                                > > > > > > > > > > areas of discovery or rediscovery where less courageous researchers,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > scholars, and perhaps even 'angels fear to tread'.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I'd mention here that if anyone knows the new email
                                                > > > > > > > > > > address of longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to
                                                > > > > > > > > > > check into our web site. He was an avid correspondent in 2007 znc 2008
                                                > > > > > > > > > > and I think would be very interested in some of the Cherokee tribal and
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Ohio mounds posts here the past months and dozens of new members who
                                                > > > > > > > > > > have joined since we last heard from him. I am one hoping to hear if
                                                > > > > > > > > > > there are any further updates Jamey can share in regard to the hundreds
                                                > > > > > > > > > > of ancient stone birds and huge reptile or animal bones discovered a few
                                                > > > > > > > > > > years ago in cave(s) and sinkholes of landowers along Tennessee's
                                                > > > > > > > > > > HIghland Rim. Jamey was fielding research for a family through the
                                                > > > > > > > > > > PreColumbian Inscriptions web site. Ancient peoples obviously go back a
                                                > > > > > > > > > > long, long way in that region of the continent, and I spent dozens of
                                                > > > > > > > > > > hours studying web sites and articles on Coppertown, Ducktown, the
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Highland Rim, ancient caverns and significant ancient waterways, learned
                                                > > > > > > > > > > that all major Tennessee wateways were Mississippi Riverway tributaries.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > A favorite article written some time ago on JSTOR refers to people 5000
                                                > > > > > > > > > > years ago cave explorers 'went thousands of feet into the perpetual
                                                > > > > > > > > > > darkness, penetrating as far as three miles in such systems as Mammoth
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Cave'.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023<http://www.jstor.org/pss/280023>
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps this is unrelated to your work, Joe, and that of James M.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Clar)k. I am ever looking for ancient interconnections of cooperative
                                                > > > > > > > > > > dffusion, trade, common bonds between diverse peoples within and between
                                                > > > > > > > > > > the continents....many thousands of years ago. Long periods when ocean
                                                > > > > > > > > > > water levels may have been drastically lower than today, very
                                                > > > > > > > > > > differently shorelines, land masses, and isles to sail to were exposed,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > and interconinental navigation was likely far more feasible than
                                                > > > > > > > > > > considered until recently by academics working in arenas isolated from
                                                > > > > > > > > > > other professional fields of research.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts here. Susan
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                                > > > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Brothers, and sisters,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure most of you subscribe to Ancient American Magazine,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for those that do not, we have extra copies, $10.00 plus $3.00
                                                > > > > > > > > > > S&H.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Article on the Cherokee Jubilee Stone is most informative,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > and unique. Scott
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wolter's Scientific Analysis is most detailed.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aagard Lamp on page 41 is nearly identical to the oil lamp
                                                > > > > > > > > > > of the
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hanukkiah Earthworks, this needs to be studied.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Central Band of Cherokee
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Public Square
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrenceburg, TN 38464
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 931 762 3733
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gail Hughes,Director
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence County Tourism
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Frode Th. Omdahl
                                                Join a Lions Club. No Hocus Pocus, just plain helping others. Frode ... From: james m clark jr To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday,
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Join a Lions Club. No Hocus Pocus, just plain helping others.
                                                   
                                                  Frode
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:08 AM
                                                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....

                                                   

                                                  Any suggestions to which Order I should join?

                                                  be well,
                                                  jamey

                                                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I've never been in any Order of the Brotherhood. I haven't heard that tune in two decades. I guess I could say I know of a few in admireing posiosions. If I ever join an Order you are the first to know that I will be a persistant zelot to putting an end to such misery on behalf of the people who have suffer[ed].
                                                  >
                                                  > be well,
                                                  > jamey
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It's been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they were the first in many things so we never know where they will pop up next.
                                                  > >  
                                                  > > All our love
                                                  > >  
                                                  > > Martin et al.
                                                  > >  
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                  > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                  > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >  
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > be well,
                                                  > > jamey
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by the tales, they tell.
                                                  > > >  
                                                  > > > All our best to all,
                                                  > > >  
                                                  > > > Love and blessings,
                                                  > > >  
                                                  > > > Martin 
                                                  > > >  
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                  > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                  > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >  
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > be well,
                                                  > > > jamey
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                                  > > > >  
                                                  > > > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                                  > > > >  
                                                  > > > > Martin Carriere
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                  > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                  > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >  
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > jmcjr
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                                  > > > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope thatÃÆ'‚ even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that theseÃÆ'‚  blindly racist empires often perpetuate. ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                  > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                  > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                                  > > > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                                  > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                  > > > > > > Best,
                                                  > > > > > > Martin
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                                  > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                  > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                  > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > ...notes continued
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French
                                                  > > Jew,
                                                  > > > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > In the old world:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                                  > > > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                                  > > > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                                  > > > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                                  > > > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                                  > > > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                                  > > > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                                  > > > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                                  > > > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                                  > > > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                                  > > > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                                  > > > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                                  > > > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                                  > > > > > > 1948-1967.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                                  > > > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                                  > > > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                                  > > > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                                  > > > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                                  > > > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                                  > > > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                                  > > > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                                  > > > > > > either.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                                  > > > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                                  > > > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                                  > > > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                                  > > > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                                  > > > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                                  > > > > > > who was he?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                                  > > > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                                  > > > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Question -
                                                  > > > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                                  > > > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                                  > > > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                                  > > > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                                  > > > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                                  > > > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                                  > > > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                                  > > > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                                  > > > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                                  > > > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                                  > > > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                                  > > > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                                  > > > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                                  > > > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                                  > > > > > > story.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > rest at:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                                  > > > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one
                                                  > > example
                                                  > > > > of
                                                  > > > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                                  > > > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Correction:
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > remind some of the Oval Office when Jackson disrupted the progress of
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > those before him.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > jameyboy@ wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Online Yahoo newsgroup at ancient_waterways_society
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > search #1511
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > ...mention here that if anyone knows the new email address of
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > longtime Georgia member Jamey Clark, please invite him to check into our
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > web site.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Message recieved!!
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 7 webmail address but there's not one I really use yet except
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > for some folks that don't perfer to list their email in the members
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > section... otherwise I really see no need to bother them like some
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > pestering bot as some nonactive newsgroups tend to be out of control. I
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > check email from time to time but I perfer myself to deal with adverstiy
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > and diversty in the matrix... when I can (no chance of virus). I figure
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > if I can't change my ways then it would be nearly impossible to change
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > someones mind regarless of indigenous ways or european ethos progress is
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > vital, not personal... although I have a higher regard for life as many
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > I am sure do as well.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > But if anyone would like to drop a line my webmail addresses
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > I check occationally is Jameyboy @ Juno.com & Jameyboy.macon.usa.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > com
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > looking forward to visiting the site Sitting Owl... thanks again!
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "joe white"
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > <joe_white@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > O'siyo Susan,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot access the web sites you send us, because of Yahoo.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not know it goes both ways, What a shame.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Issue is Volume 13, Issue Number 84, the most recent issue.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Much Wado for your Group, to share important information.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gah gey you e,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting Owl
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Susan<mailto:beldingenglish@>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_waterways_socie\
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > ty@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:26 PM
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Thanks for the great information. My system was unable to
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > pull up the news link in the email which accompanied your Post. I did
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > find an Internet link w/photo and additonal Cherokee Jubilee Stone
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > information:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf<http://www.ch\
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > erokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/JubileeStone.pdf>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this from the main web site for your tribe showing the
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > extensive research you have been doing in connection with the engravings
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > of the Ohio and Las Lunas Dealogue Stones, Grave Creek Stone, Bat Creek
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > Stone (good 'ancient waterway' names!), and numerous related sites:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  >

                                                  (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

                                                • james m clark jr
                                                  The Lions Club? The same as the local Neighborhood watch program? No! This is on an urgent internation level although It could be helpful as far as local
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jan 4, 2011
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                                                    The Lions Club? The same as the local Neighborhood watch program?
                                                    No! This is on an urgent internation level although It could be helpful as far as local lectures.

                                                    Thanks Frode & be well,
                                                    jamey

                                                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Frode Th. Omdahl" <f2@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Join a Lions Club. No Hocus Pocus, just plain helping others.
                                                    >
                                                    > Frode
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > From: james m clark jr
                                                    > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:08 AM
                                                    > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Any suggestions to which Order I should join?
                                                    >
                                                    > be well,
                                                    > jamey
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I've never been in any Order of the Brotherhood. I haven't heard that tune in two decades. I guess I could say I know of a few in admireing posiosions. If I ever join an Order you are the first to know that I will be a persistant zelot to putting an end to such misery on behalf of the people who have suffer[ed].
                                                    > >
                                                    > > be well,
                                                    > > jamey
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > It's been going on from before and especially since 1717. Yet life is about laughing and playing the right tune. The funny thing about the Irish is that they were the first in many things so we never know where they will pop up next.
                                                    > > > Â
                                                    > > > All our love
                                                    > > > Â
                                                    > > > Martin et al.
                                                    > > > Â
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                    > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Â
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I agree with you Martin, yet I admit that I'm not on the up & up in the political arena. However, if it was that simple it wouldn't take more than a month of Sundays to convince the brotherhood that it is well within their grasp to put a damer on lodge usage. This is nothing new it has been going on since the 1930's.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > be well,
                                                    > > > jamey
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Those are the ones who twisted the moral codes for their own benefit. It is useful looking back at history to see when the state or the religion took control over the codes of behaviour and those who were then subject to the new agendas. The use of someone's previous reputation for moral honour has duped many unwiting scholar into believing all sorts of hooey. (That is the scientific term for hogwashed goo). The understanding is that the moment you create the administration to manage your assets the ideals and codes the organization is founded upon become ancillary and dispensible. Anyone who talks of race or uses it as a definition is part of the bureaucratic jumble of false ideals and agendas aimed only at conquest and subjugation. You can tell the twisted ones by theÃ, tales, they tell.
                                                    > > > > Ã,Â
                                                    > > > > All our best to all,
                                                    > > > > Ã,Â
                                                    > > > > Love and blessings,
                                                    > > > > Ã,Â
                                                    > > > > MartinÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > Ã,Â
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                    > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:08 PM
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Ã,Â
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Wow that has to be the quickest reply to any post in any moderated newsgroup I have ever witnessed in the last decade let alone a reply to me in general. I'm not sure I am able to process that in regards to experince. It could be somewhat reminisant of the birth of U.S. as a Christian Nation Feb. 29th 1892...every leap year perhaps as a lighting bugs are a becon yet their first appearing after the spring equinox is the 17th of the Hebrew Calender which is Fristfruit the very day the Blood Covenant was accepted in A.D. 30. My expeince with Masons was a racist one. In fact the Britannica 2010 makes mention of them as Christian Institution washed up for the first time mentioned in any Ency. ever. I wouldn't spit pollish their shoes, the rascist Masons I knew anyway. There is no way you could justify that half of the brotherhood.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > jamey
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Yet we must remember that to administer the physical survival of a religion that owns property they must surrender some of their moral foundation in the creation of a bureaucracy that merges with the bureaucracy they are resident with. This then allows the creation of genocidal inquisitions and pogroms that gain finacial and property benefits. The Tmplars and masons were the origianl framework of the moral codes adopted and enshrined by manty religions yet without the brotherhood or the compassion originally intended in the codes.
                                                    > > > > > Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > All the best dear cosuins and searchers
                                                    > > > > > Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > Martin Carriere
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                    > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:26 AM
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > The following reply is from a Journalist major and a member in Christian Philosophy newsgroup at yahoo which was a reply to this same subject without the geneology incerts added. Regarless, I'd have to say I agree with you both as I admire you both. The parallelism is so striking when it is educational by the people. Steve O[K] is one of the better political journalist I've come across in recent years who I have considered hireing when that opportunity comes.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > > jmcjr
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > The exploration of historical material with fictive themes is most interesting when the relevancy of the thematic material is related to current events.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Many governments in the past were theocratic. Some were polytheistic. Others were monotheistic. Some governments that maintain a connection with history are still theocratic.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > The US is not a theocracy. The UK and Saudi Arabia are allies with the US that have governments that can be described as theocratic. While Iran is considered to be both a theocracy and a hostile nation, it is conceivable that a theocracy can be non-sectarian.
                                                    > > > > > Much that is happening in places like Darfur, Sudan is not explicitly stated. Nevertheless, the relationship between government and religion is a significant issue. "Genocide" is a mass atrocity that was being perpetuated in Darfur. The genocide targeted black people who were animists and christians.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > While the agents of genocide were supposedly "Muslim," the knowledge of history serves as a reminder that agents of genocide could as easily have been "Animists" or "Christians" against muslims. Does this mean that we should just look at war, atrocity and violence as a part of the "human condition?" No.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > The so-called "secular humanists" do not use explicit religious terminology because an atrocity is an atrocity regardless of who perpetuates it. The following link will connect you to an organization that is dedicated to "watching" for evidence of organization for atrocity in order to promote policy decisions by government designed to avert the social exploitation of adversity in nature.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > http://notonourwatchproject.org/what_we_do
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Religion teaches and promotes morality. Instruction in morality is the value that a religion represents to government. Certain supports are offered in return for the service. Monists however have assumed positions of leadership in religion and government. Monists promote the interests of "the One" and view the needs of "the many" as illusion. This philosophy opens the door to horrendous social policies. Genocide is one of the worst. The genocide against black animists and christians in Darfur is a special case of a general sectarian policy. Special cases of sectarianism often require a non-sectarian method of addressing the violent and anti-human behaviors associated with the position.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > If Christianity is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not Christian. If any religion is not aimed at the promotion and protection of human rights, then it is not religious in a non-sectarian way. The "secular" humanitarian position is offensive when it is anti-religious and aimed at the elimination of freedom of religion as a human right.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Confusion usually happens in genealogy when the real past of the family interferes with the imagined one of the story they need to tell to survive in the anti-Irish and anti-indigenous world at that time. My family's compassion on Clarke when they were starving holds out some hope thatÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ, even when people are in the process of stealing thousands of miles of land without compassion themselves for the original inhabitants does not mean the original inhabitiant have to be uncivilized also. We continue to hope that these acts of compassion will alter the aggressive and anti-indigenous, anti-Irish and anti-freepeople that theseÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ, blindly racist empires often perpetuate. ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/4/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                    > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > Received: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 12:43 AM
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Not that I know of Martin.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Even from the Engish Clark's perspective of geneologist there seems to be some confusion. On the one hand it is claimed there is no record of Clark's and on the other there are Clark's listed as passengers in a log listed in colonal times of a particalar vessel I don't recall the name of. I assume this confusion was due to the Irish Clarke's that may have been listed under English peonage agreements as far as the Irish Clarke's in America, the rest of the Irish Clarke's were sent to Barbados or some other ports to be sold as slaves in earlier times.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Recently, I just watch a episode of Secrets of the Dead relating to the Irish society of the Da Gaul, who managed to free Irishmen that was banished by the English to a prison in the land down under. All, 6 to 8 inmates were resuced and were brought to America. But the grime history of that prison and others like it may require some atention as far as the Irish or the Irish Clarkes.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > > > jamey
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Hey Jamey,
                                                    > > > > > > > Just a question. Are you one of Clarke's descendants from the claiming of the U.S. territory journey?
                                                    > > > > > > > ÃfÆ'Ã?'Ãf¢ââ?s¬Ã.¡ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > > > Best,
                                                    > > > > > > > Martin
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Good range of info you sent.
                                                    > > > > > > > ÃfÆ'Ã?'Ãf¢ââ?s¬Ã.¡ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, james m clark jr <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > From: james m clark jr <jameyboy@>
                                                    > > > > > > > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations....
                                                    > > > > > > > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > Received: Monday, January 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > ÃfÆ'Ã?'Ãf¢ââ?s¬Ã.¡ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > ...notes continued
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Manuscripts: Sonnini & Shepherd of Hermas noted geographical locations, structures etc.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > WAS: Cherokee Jubilee Stone [Sonnini Manuscript and the Dragon Stone ]
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Please accept my apologies in advance due to a lack of literary sources & my library collection 24 years was mostly destroyed. This is just a few notes, unorgainzed if anything and some not personal conclusions to consider although this particualar subject has been an interest for almost two decades and it all started from legends which is to a degree an unavoidable religious nature, so it is said according to the English Clarks geneologist to merely be traditional in which I could live with if I knew more about it maybe. Of no English blood that I know of, I too thought I was an English Clark until I met my Grandfather about ten years ago, who is an Irish Clarke. It wasn't until 2010 that I found out that these so called legends as far as historical content were varified by a curator of the Vatican Library long before these Clark legends were infused with glamorized traditions as odd as that may sound coming from a Yuchi Scottish Irish French
                                                    > > > Jew,
                                                    > > > > > > > Cherokee Scot. Anyone know of the history of Bruce iland in the Gulf of Mexico?
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > In the old world:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > It all starts with Joseph, the man whom the Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" he was an owner of tin & lead mines and had one of the largest fleets of trade ships that sailed from sea to sea before the days of Claudius, as some term Emperors of Rome today. That may have changed in A.D.36 when the Nobilis Decurio was banished from Judah not by Roman decree or Romans but by the same society that it is said that St. Paul had reared up as a Pharisee.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britian and after preaching the gospel there, died." (Cardinal Baronius, Curator of the Vatican Library, Ecclesiastical Annals).
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > As noted "the daughter of Arvirgus" is incorrect.
                                                    > > > > > > > Gladys [not Claudia]was Caradoc's sister not his daughter but Arvirgus blood sister I can't rightly say at this time. Nevertheless she was a British Christian. In other words, if this was not a political move it was a ricky one, this relationship between a Christian princess and a Pagan Roman Commander in Chief Aulus Plautius. You couldn't really blame them, they didn't know love would become a subject in 1976 either. If anything they both risked their lives and their reputation in the highest ranks.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Here we have two enemies Caradoc and other Sirles branches and the largest Roman Army ever assembled by a Roman Emperor and namely against Christianity from which it spread from Britian to the rest of the known world...
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "Britian was the first of all countries to receive the Christian faith."
                                                    > > > > > > > -Polydore Vergil
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "The British National Church was founded A.D. 36, 160 years before heathen Rome confessed Christianity" (Ussher, Britannicarum Ecclesiarum Antiquitates, ch.2)
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "From India to Britain all nations resound with the death and resurrection of Christ (St. Jerome A.D.378)
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > According to Mr. Welsh's Wikipedia
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Roma people may refer to:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Romani people, an ethnic group with origins in India who are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated populations in Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, with more recent diaspora populations in the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in North Africa and the Middle East.
                                                    > > > > > > > Roma (Romani subgroup), a subgroup of the Romani people who live primarily in Central and Eastern Europe.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > This was not in the best interests of Claudius the Roman Empire had boundries regarding the Roman Empire when he made his decree mainly against Christian Britain in which he also included regarding anyone found to be "... decended from David."
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > The symbol of the Welsh Dragon is said to have been adopted from China according to the 2010 Ency. Britannica. It is stated that a Dragon silk sock was used to determine wind conditions for archers.
                                                    > > > > > > > A colonies remains & belongings discovered by disiplined grave robbers in China may attest to that claim. One Chinese scientist even made the claim that they were Irish even though the mummies carbon dated older than the Pharoah's of Egypt. Even Jews find it odd that a Dragon is found in Jewish Apocrphical literature, namely that of Yesu Ha Mashiach or the revelation to St.John.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > It is also interesting to note in Malory's LE MORTE D'ARTHUR that one "King Carados, the King of the Hundred Knights" is mentioned in the Welsh Triads as there are a few named Carados but this particular King only fits the literary imagination of Malory or is it just another Homeric Legend of a New Troy? Homer speaks of one Trojan war... archeogist C.W. Blegen discovers not one but three
                                                    > > > > > > > war layers spanding war time some 500 years apart. Homer has the living with dead as contempraies in the same attemp as Malory. According to Plato, Homer and Malory would be both considered demented. It is also quit convienant that historians have at their disposal what is chosen. This approch is rather disturbing as well.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "In several passages Tacitus speaks of 'the hundred'
                                                    > > > > > > > in idiomatic senses which modern scholars have found
                                                    > > > > > > > hard to understand, but the suggestion that he was
                                                    > > > > > > > misunderstanding the word hundred, meaning district
                                                    > > > > > > > will not do. Neither in Germany nor Anglo-Saxon England
                                                    > > > > > > > was the word so used till centuries later." (p.29 intro)
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "They dwell in a hundred Country districts and in virtue of
                                                    > > > > > > > their magnitude count themselves chief of all the Suebi." -
                                                    > > > > > > > ff Tactius; p.133 On Britain and Germany by H. Mattingly,
                                                    > > > > > > > 1948-1967.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/tacitusc/germany/chap1.htm
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > 39. The oldest and noblest of the Suebi, so it is said, are the Semnones, and the justice of this claim is confirmed by a religious rite. At a set time all the peoples of this blood gather, in their embassies, in a wood hallowed by the auguries of their ancestors and the awe of ages. The sacrifice in public of a human victim marks the grisly opening of their savage ritual. In another way, too, reverence is paid to the grove. No one may enter it unless he is bound with
                                                    > > > > > > > a cord. By this he acknowledges his own inferiority and the power of the deity. Should he chance to fall, he must not get up on his feet again. He must roll out over the ground. All this complex of superstition reflects the belief that in that grove the nation had its birth, and that there dwells the god who rules over all, while the rest of the world is subject to his sway. Weight is lent to
                                                    > > > > > > > this belief by the prosperity of the Semnones. They dwell in a hundred country districts and, in virtue of their magnitude, count themselves chief of all the Suebi.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Small colonies or outposts should be sufficient enough early baptistreies questionalble. Attempts have been claimed in relation to Julus Ceasar. As far as the Druids that would be one possibility for the Educational center in Britain was destroyed by Claudius but Druids were not. I'm not certain who the Culdee were considered to be. Tacitus as senator and historian was well aware of the
                                                    > > > > > > > intellectual frontiers of the British Silures. It was quit convinant that the works of Tacitus was found hidden in a monstary in Germany (info: Royal Irish Academy Library - if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was hidden for it contained much truth but also that which was not.
                                                    > > > > > > > Romans nor British seen this work for nearly 1700 years. Supposedly this work was translated so much that the original Ms of Tacitus was lost.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Pastor Hermas (brother of Pope Pius I) also reffered to the asplissimus Pudentes domus as the "hospitium" or home of hospitality in refference to the Palace of the British in which many atempts conflict regarding movements & decees of Jewish & Christian persecution. It was he, Hermas whom was dipicted first as
                                                    > > > > > > > "the Good Shepard"... not only is it his fresco more or less Pagan graffiti in the catacombs of St. Prisilla it was also through "his" visions that spawned the birth of a new tradition according to Joseph Bingham in his works: The Antiquities of the Christian Church, that which many aknowledge today as Easter is alot more political & philosophical when Firstfruits as aknowledged to a degree by the Christian Philosopical Journal is even taken out of the equation.
                                                    > > > > > > > Firstfruits seems to be the only apointed time not observed by many observant Jews and some Christians that aknowledge the Laws of Moshe. Profane Christianity needs to aknowlowge examples such as Ti-ping tien-kwoh: the history of the Ti-ping revolution - Google Books Result
                                                    > > > > > > > Augustus F. Lindley - 1866 - History - 842 pages
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Otherwise, the following link provides a good bit of information regarding events involved in this partular angelic visitation of Hermas whether he is regarded as a Rabbi or Christian forefater or not. It may also be noted that the following refference to Oxford material is not listed in Mr. Welshs Wikipedia
                                                    > > > > > > > either.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > The Pass Over to Easter... on "the Lord's Day" and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. ...www.vision.org
                                                    > > > > > > > www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=1054 clipped from Google - 12/2010
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Apartantly it is claimed that it was Pastor Hermas(Hermes)who officiated the marriage of Rufus and Claudia according to all sources I've come across; but considering the time gap, much Jewish & Christian perscution, and search for truth, during the time of Hermas the Palatium Britannicum was by his time already refered to as the "hospitium" but the name of the Palatium Britannicum
                                                    > > > > > > > had already been dubbed in Roman terms as the Titulus.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Intersting, and what mount do we have near Mount Pilatus in which the Sonnini Manuscript claims Pilate leaped to his death durring a surmon of Paul in modern Switzerland or ancient Helvetia at a lake?
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Mount Titlis Tour - Eternal Snow and Glaciers from Lucerne ...Lucerne to Mt Titlis, with Sensational Gondola Ride ...... Hotel Hermes (0.0 km) Renovated in the Year 2000, This Hotel Comprises a Total of 29 Rooms ...
                                                    > > > > > > > www.holidayz.com.au/.../mount-titlis-tour-eternal-snow-and-glaciers-from-lucerne
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > The Titlis, called Titli in the local patois, is named after a neighbouring alp,formerly the property of a Titulus, ie of a titular church. ...
                                                    > > > > > > > books.google.com/books?id=3lpNAAAAYAAJ...
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > From what I gather Hermes was a kinsman of the Prudens was he also
                                                    > > > > > > > ...what is a titular church? Was Hermes associated with a Titulus
                                                    > > > > > > > who was he?
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Most of those from Judah and Rome had already been slain, with the exception of John, Polycarp, Polycrates I can't recall if they from Judah and those Jews and Levites in Gaul Spain and Britain an in the regins of the 70 and the 120 that was blessed with the Spirit in which the Blood Covenant remains almost vacantly silent regarding
                                                    > > > > > > > there whereabouts of the 12. Nearly all of which remained in Judah and Rome were put to death in Judah and Rome but what were those Britsh converts up to this entire time...
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Was Claudia still living when the Palatium Britannicum was the Titlis in Hermas day? I wouldn't think so, she was the only one that died a natuarl death in her old age in Rome. And Hermas married her to Rufus when she was 17? I don't think so. Claudia was healthy. Hermas more than likely died as adverage male Romans did, however, if he was a known Christian under Roman terms the Hermes mentioned in the epistle to Romans and if he stayed in Rome he died in Rome. Rufus was
                                                    > > > > > > > healthy and more than likely much older than Hermas. In fact if I have my history correct, it was he who own a vast estate in Umbria. Many of his loyal servants earned their keep, bore offspring that eventually numbered to over 200 servants; Men, women and childern which were all welcome at the home of Hospitality! These sevants may have been taken to Umbria, some may have been distant relitives from other lands East or South of Judah or of Indian decent.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Question -
                                                    > > > > > > > Why was Timothy so urgently called to Rome... AND everybody that Paul mentions was tarring for his arival including Paul's mother's husband Pudens, [Rufus & Paul's mother] father of Rufus, and British cousins of Claudia and Linus her brother! This was a royal wedding remind you. And the fact that Caradoc's agreement to stay in Rome for 7 years was about to come to an end. Caradoc never forged an army against Rome ever again... that was part of the treaty!! No Ile
                                                    > > > > > > > of Britian was ever conquered!! This meant a way for Paul to temporarely escape Rome once Romans found out Paul was the brother of a Roman Senator it was then known that he himself was "...decendant of Daivd." This wedding did not take place at the Emporor Claudius Palace this wedding was at the Palatium Britannicum or House of the British. Is this the reason why Paul never mentions his mother by name? It would seem so Jews or Christians are not to be foolish.
                                                    > > > > > > > You just don't betray your loved ones as some religious idiots do.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Hermas, some translations have "Hermes" at Romans 16:14 but is it the same Hermes that was brother to a Roman Pope Pius I who "Reigned" A.D. 140 to A.D.154? Claudia was born in A.D.36 the same year Yesu called Paul the same year Joseph the one Romans called "Nobilis Decurio" was banish from Judah by the same Order Paul had started! An if the first non-angelican Again, she was married at 17 years of age only lived with the Emporor Clauduis about a year at his palace in which ironically is the customary courtship durration of Jews. And wasn't it Linus, Claudia's brother whom it is said by many the first Bishop after the Apostles?
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > As suprising as it may sound some Literary critics actually claim Linus is the Lear of Shakespere. That I took as a challenge. Not so long ago I broke out my Complete Works of Shakespere once in very good condition before the flames devoured it. I remember thinking Apollo!! Apollo!! Apollo!! How in the world is
                                                    > > > > > > > King Lear Linus?
                                                    > > > > > > > So natural I broke out Judith Hamiltons book Mythology. It turns out
                                                    > > > > > > > that Apollo had a son who was slain by dogs and Linus was an ode sung in the fields this is also where we get the word Alas from but none of the words in Tanakh or the Blood Covenant use the greek form that Homer did. In fact, Homer seems to be the only Greek source.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > My Shakesperean version of an ode to Linus:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > If so perhaps Shakespeare was impling Woe to you decieved in Trojan folly,Woe to to you who lavish in myths of war! Do you not know your Kings your legacy your greatest victories friend? And foe, Do you not know your fathers brothers and sisters and mothers unconquered by death,welders of honor and glory where is your shame? Do we not claim one greater than Apollo? Are the stars brighter in the depths of darkness because of us? Woe to you and your unborn innocent ones
                                                    > > > > > > > who neither have child bering hips nor seed to make a son greater than Linus chosen of Yah the first king to ever lay his crown on his brothers footstool and gather the meek!
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Concerning outposts:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Many don't realize that all baptistries in former times wasn't in the meeting place. These were not necessarily what one would call a "pull pit" within the Bible Belt of hip huger bells of Southern harlotdom.
                                                    > > > > > > > That's what some of these fire and brimstone preachers make out to be yet there are many women that are very very lady like. In fact, not all Baptistries even had water in them. Up until the late 1800's the Round Towers in Ireland was still somewhat a mystery, but more about that later. There is one in particular that is a good example in Poitiers France, the BaptistÃfÆ'Ã?'Ãfâ? 'ÃfÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãfâ?sÃ,¨re Saint Jean otherwise known as the Baptistery of St. John. There are many many many pics on the web of
                                                    > > > > > > > this particular Baptistry. If you find the right side you'll notice one of those triangles with the little triangle above it...yeah it's one of those like on the back of American greenbacks. This is one of the few Merovingian structures that has survived over a thousand years. I say this because the dates vary. In my Text the given suggested date is in the the 6th centry. Other suggestions claim
                                                    > > > > > > > much older dates "Originally constructed in the 4th century, the round
                                                    > > > > > > > baptistery was modified in the 6th and 7th centuries and decorated with frescoes a few centuries later. I asume A.D. 360 is considered the 4th century.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > I wonder how long that dragon stone has been claimed to have healing powers.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Local Dragon Lore regarding the Sonnini Manuscript St.Paul & Pilate
                                                    > > > > > > > at Mount Pontus Pilate or Pilatus:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > "In the summer of 1421, a powerful dragon flew to Mount Pilatus and landed so close to a farmer by the name of Stempflin that he fainted. When the farmer came to, he discovered a lump of coagulated blood and a dragon stone, the healing powers of which were officially confirmed in 1509.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > The chronicle of Petermann Etterlin tells how Regional Governor Winkelried killed one of the Mount Pilatus dragons: he wrapped a spear with thorn twigs and thrust it into the open mouth of the dragon, finishing the beast off with a sword. In the process, drops of poisonous dragon's blood spurted on to his hand. These drops - and the poisonous breath of the dying dragon - froze the blood in
                                                    > > > > > > > Winkelried's veins and he also met his death.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > In the early hours of the morning of 26 May 1499, a wondrous spectacle was seen in Lucerne: after a terrible thunderstorm, an enormous, wingless dragon rose out of the wild waters of the River Reuss at the Spreuer bridge. The beast had probably been taken by surprise by the thunderstorm and washed down from Mount
                                                    > > > > > > > Pilatus in the Krienbach, which flows into the Reuss beneath the Jesuit church. Several well-respected and educated townspeople authenticated the truth of this
                                                    > > > > > > > story.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > rest at:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > http://www.pilatus.ch/content,83,r,_Ez.html
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Hello lo lo lo,
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Text from the Belknap Press of Harvard University Press...
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > "In the history of the Christian churches in the first and second centuries A.D. we are looking along a rich vein of human material notably different from that known to us either among the wellborn of the cities or among the villagers of the Gospels.
                                                    > > > > > > > > We need look only at the Roman Christian community of around A.D. 120, as it is revealed in the visions collected in the Shepherd of Hermas, to see what this could mean."
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > A History of Private Life Vol.I - From Pagan Rome to Byzantium chapter 2 page 258
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > How true is this assumption?
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > asplissimus Pudentes domus
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Archaeologically speaking, this is the name Hermas gave to the Palatium Britannicum... it was built in Pagan Rome not Ancient Britain. Although not built by Romans, but rather through the Roman Emperor Claudius who sought peace with Caractacus [Caradoc King of the Welsh Silures]through an amistice which was a truce durring A.D. 45 with the Pendragon who was eventually betrayed not captured nor none of his family harmed that were taken to Rome...his whole family. Rome feared this King. Not only did over a million Romans cheer, his daughter was unlawfully according to Roman law remained by his side.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Historically speaking...
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > "Had my government in Britain been directed solely with the view to the preservation of my hereditary domains, or the aggrandizement of my own family, I might have long since have entered this city an ally, not a prisoner: nor would you have disdained for a friend a king descended from illustrious ancestors, and the dictator of many nations. My present condition, stript of its former majesty, is as adverse to myself as it is a cause of triumph to you. What then? I was lord of men, horses, arms, wealth; what wonder if at your dictation I refuse to resign them? Does it follow, that because Romans aspire to universal domination, every nation is to accept the Vassalage they would impose? I am now in your power- BETRAYED, NOT CONQUERED. Had I, like others, yielded without resistance, where would hve been the name Caradoc? Where is your glory? Oblivion would have buried both in the same tomb. Bid me live. I shall survive for ever in history one
                                                    > > > example
                                                    > > > > > of
                                                    > > > > > > > Roman Clemency."
                                                    > > > > > > > > Tacitus, Annals, 12:37
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Unlike the small Roman bathhouse found in Jerusalem in November 2010 the two baths at his Palace are the largest ever found in Rome. This Palace still stands today and it is known today as St. Pudintinna. It became the first above ground Church after his daughter was adopted by the Emperor and he give it to her and her husband as a wedding gift before heading back to his Kingdom.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > It turns out that Lake Luzerne in Switzerland is becoming more philosophical and historically interesting. This is a hot spot for dragon lore (not sure where the actual stone called "Dragon Stone" is yet)and may have some bearing related to the early 19c terminology of the secret society of the "Christian Rosenkreuz Order" regarding concept origins of what is dubbed as a Luciferic initiation if there is a mystical or acclaimed truth to Lake Luzerne/Lucerne, and Mount Pilatus.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > American Scientist, Volume 92 [NewScientistpdf] with seismic data added in "files" at ancient_waterways_society [I attempted to notify members but had already began uploading it].
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > To become somewhat acquainted with the surroundings of Lake Luzerne and Mount Pilatus I browsed around a few tourist sites and noticed what appeared as a stain glass window at a local train station of dragon... and wondered if it's possible for the Belgre to visit this location then ancient Welsh tribes could have also.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Correction:
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > that would be not Sweden but rather Switzerland - Lake Luzern, Lucerne, Mount Pilatus.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > According some of these websites concerning this it is considered tradition... no regard is given to the Sonnini Manuscript. Even in the U.S. Harvard, Cambridge [Langler 1947], no English text I've owned, or was once in my possession mentions the name of the Sultan to whom which the Greek text was presented as gift to Sonnini nor is he mentioned being granted acesses to all of the domains of Ottoman Empire freely to travel by royal decree by the last of the Bordon Kings, Louis XVI to whom Franklin won favor to support the English colonist... King Louis did... as a result, France went bankrupt prior to Napoleon's conquest before the turn of the century.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Hey Doc burrr,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > I'm still listing to the show it was the first thing that popped up before I had a chance to search for images. But temps here in Georgia are cooler than Juno Alaska sipping on hot tea in front of the stove. Ha ha ... Who was it that said that the LIA was over? Although the winter solstice is closely approching.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Ocmulgee's Geometric and Spatial topography chart of Perdido Bay Tribe can be gleened and located at their site.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > http://www.perdidobaytribe.org/Ocmulgee.htm
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > And Joe, the "Black Irish" term origianlly refered to Gentiles according to Mackie (Scot.Hist) was to distinguish Scandinavians from Danes or Norwigians. Now in Scotland, Ireland and West England the Cludee were distinguished as Levites accoriding to some scholars. The term Culdee has no European connection outside of the British Iles somewhat as it seems for Tacitus use of the word hundred in relation to the Subi in relation to the ancient Alimmi in centural Europe I assume according to oral traditions. Ireland itself had been once called Culdee. The term Christian according to classic writers had it's origin first among the British. The "Jews (tin) mines" in Cornwall has been mention by Starbo and Julius Ceasear. Such terms were defined in 3 councils in the 1400's to grant Britian religious indepenance as the Defenders of the Faith.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Since then the Sonnini Manuscript is basically the sole acclaimed event of Paul preaching on Monut Lud an the reason why St. Paul's Cathedral has been rebuilt and maintained there at the same spot.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Now what would be interesting regarding common interest or scientic data is data that would coinside with trimmer at Mount Pontus Pilate in Hervina (sic)[ in Sweden where it is stated that Pontus Pilate jumped to his death at a sermon of Paul's]next to the lake of which I still do not know the modern name for nor do I know of the ancient name for prior to the destruction of Herod's Temple.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > be well,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > jamey
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Jamey, All,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > I am currently playing the Oopa Loopa 2 hour interview "Joe Sitting Owl
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > White and the Jubilee Stone" which aired on the Internet Thanksgiving
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > week, 2009:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl-\
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > white-and-the-jubilee-stone
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oopa-loopa-cafe/2009/11/27/joe-sitting-owl\
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > -white-and-the-jubilee-stone>
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > 11/26/2009 2:00 PM - 2 hrs Length: 2 hrs Description:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > h:2579 s:795176 It took a while, but I finally convinced Joe Sitting
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Owl White to appear on the Oopa Loopa Cafe. And on Thanksgiving night to
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > boot. Joe worked out how the so called Jubilee Stone was used as both a
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > calendar and, possibly, a navigation tool. Using personal knowledge of
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Cherokee lore, tradition, and careful application of practical
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > experiment and logic, he was able to reconstruct its use and how its
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > ceremony dates coincide with Jewish holidays. We'll have pictures,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > diagrams, and the object's leading researcher, Chief Joe Sitting Owl
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > White, to explain the Jubilee Stone. Go easy on the turkey <#> , this
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > live segment will be too good to miss due to Tryptophan-induced coma.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Pumpkin pie and a cup <#> o' Joe are recommended.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > <jameyboy@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Sahn gah ley! Sitting Owl,
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > The appearance of site Dec. 8th 2010 appears fine but I didn't see a
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > link to the pdf or Cherokee Jubilee Stone. However, I did notice what
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > appears to be an image to large for the webpage at the bottom over over
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > another image? Going to one of the links at the top of the page flashed
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > an image of what appeared as assorted arrowheads. If this is the only
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > digital information you have for the pdf it can be recovered with a
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > program called "icare" at http://www.icare-recovery.com/
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.icare-recovery.com/download.html
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > even if it has been accidently deleated or corrupted with the images
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > on your personal pc not the webpage itself... that would call for
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > reconstruction. It's the partitions that store the information... even
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the oldest hardrives as small as they were in 80's have 4 to 20 gig for
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > a 20mb hd; some stuff you can recover some not.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > I've come across USGenNet a few times and really like ClustrMaps as
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > well but will have save the whole page as a pdf (theres a program for
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > that also that includes all the links viewable offline).
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not to much of a fan of David Crocket but I could be misinformed.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > > If that was my place I'd have a spitoon under his side of the image to
                                                    > > > > >