Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: World Heritage status being sought for Newark Earthworks
Ross and All;
Despite their dim origins, it is hoped that more study will prevail. An hypothesis that such documents provide clues to the legends, myths, wisdom, and tribal origins is appealing. Several of these remaining documents include winter counts, the Iroquois Book of Rites, the Walam Olum, The Book of Wild. Birchbark Scrolls of the Southern Ojibway, and Jicarilla Origin texts. If you know of any others, please share. With more study, we may learn of cultural significance of these texts.
Also, a short comment on your interview that I heard on the OOPA LOOPA cafe the other day. I recall that you mentioned a Maya group that is taking notice of the Serpent Mound. Is it correct that they are stating an ancient Maya connection with the mounds there? I have photographed an artifact in the Smithsonian that may have Mayan glyphs engraved into a butterfly shaped bannerstone. What about the engraved bannerstone from Wilmington, Ohio found in 1879? Any thoughts on this piece?
A short review of the texts and bannerstone on a website, located here:
--- On Wed, 10/14/09, Ross Hamilton <d.ross.hamilton@...> wrote:
From: Ross Hamilton <d.ross.hamilton@...>
Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: World HeritageJoe and all,The Cherokee, not the Iroquois, have the true ancestral claim to the Ohio earthwork tradition. It is from the Cherokee tradition alone that we have hints regarding the mythologies associated with a few of these mighty works, including Grandmother Spider and Newark. But the story has some complexity and cannot be adequately understood without long study and good sources.If you read the recommended materials suggested by brother Pennington, a whole new vista on prehistory begins to open. Heckewelder made over 100 converts to Christianity, and in the process he wrote down some of the oral history of the Lenni Lenape (later Delaware and now again Lenape).Oral history of most tribal traditions was rejected back in the days of the onset of organized anthropology by two very influencial men: Robert Lowie and Franz Boaz. Before them, Cyrus Thomas of the Smithsonian attempted to use the Red Bark writings of Constantine Rafinesque as a reasonable guide to the history of the Lenape. All three of these men were working by the lights of their eras, which were, needless to say, dim. Heckewelder's true Lenape account is different however.The "Ancient Ones," aka the Lenape, vanquished the Alligewi, and assimilated them to some extent, becoming the unique so named "Adena" race, aka the "Tallegewi" to the later Iroquoian legend. This was subsequently passed down through the Iroquois Book of Rites (Horatio Hale, 1883). By the new evidence based upon a combination of archaeological research coupled with formerly off-limits Native legend, the ancestors of the later Iroquois didn't have any claim to Ohio (Newark territory) until a far later date which was just prior to the arrival of the messianic Peacemaker early in the second millennium of the Common Era. New research also suggests that the Newark earthwork's design (among others), is far older than the 2,000 year old date assigned to it by local archaeology in that it (again among many others) was refurbished to make it appear "Hopewell." This can be proven through blessed Cherokee legend.The ancestors of the Cherokee were never chased out of Ohio, they were always too strong, too well organized, and far too intelligent to have ever allowed this. When they left Ohio (just before the Common Era), it was because they wanted to, and that's when the so-called Hopewell (pre-Iroquoian) made their entrance from the north and the Great Lakes, i.e. about 100 B.C.E. These later Hopewell bore no physical resemblance to these ancestors of the Cherokee, and there were giants among them, something the Iroquois could not claim until later, based upon the evidence.God Bless Joe and what he brings.Ross
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:38 PM, joe white <joe_white@msn. com> wrote:O'siyo Brother Jay,We cannot thank you enough for this email, and the opportunity to establishfacts concerning the Cherokee.After consulting the Central Band of Cherokee Chief Historian, Ray Pearl Seeker Pennington931 285 2175, those truly interested should read the following.1. "History, Manners, and Customs of the Indian Nations who once InhabitedPennsylvinia, and Neighboring States" by John Heckewelder, Provesthe Cherokee in the Ohio Area, in Ancient Times.2. "History of the Mission of the United Bretheren among the Indians inNorth america" by George Henery Loskiel, Translated from German intoOld English. Verification. and Walum OlamPlease verify to us that you have researched this in order that the Historical TruthBe known for us, and the World Heritage, concerning the Newark Earthworks.Gah gey you e,Sitting Owl----- Original Message -----From: Jay L. TothCc: Colin M. Betts ; Constance Arzigian ; John F Doershuk ; dmarcucci@landmarka rchaeologyinc. com ; Merle_Frommelt@ nps.gov ; phyllis_Ewing@ nps.gov ; gerard_baker@ nps.gov ; Bonnie Jancik ; ghost horse ; K HeddenSent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:17 AMSubject: RE: World Heritage status being sought for Newark EarthworksFYI-Cherokee are a southern Iroquois people. Recent DNA studies by Lisa Mills (Ohio State) confirms that contrary to any oral history , she found that mtDNA samples "...... do not cluster close to the Ohio Hopewell.The Ohio Valley has always been a Northern Iroquois people domain.FYI- Both Seneca Nation and Ho-Chunk will be supporting World heritage status of the Ohio sites. i will be bringing it before other THPO tribes during one of the ACHP conference calls when Brad Lepper from OHS lets me know when he will need tribal support.JAY Toth, HCN ARCHEOLOGIST715-284-2852 ext. 1036
From: joe white [joe_white@msn. com]
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:28 PM
To: Jay L. Toth; Earnie boshhardt; David Benn; David Steven Faldet; Ted Sojka
Cc: Colin M. Betts; Constance Arzigian; John F Doershuk; dmarcucci@landmarka rchaeologyinc. com; Merle_Frommelt@ nps.gov; phyllis_Ewing@ nps.gov; gerard_baker@ nps.gov; Bonnie Jancik; ghost horse; K Hedden
Subject: Re: World Heritage status being sought for Newark EarthworksO'siyo Brothers, and Sisters,You may want to pass this on.Our Chief Historian has reported to us that in the oral history ofthe Delaware Indians that they ran the Cherokee out of this area in Ohio.This could have been an ancient Cherokee Site.Gah gey you e,Sitting Owl----- Original Message -----From: Ted SojkaCc: Colin M. Betts ; Constance Arzigian ; John F Doershuk ; dmarcucci@landmarka rchaeologyinc. com ; Merle_Frommelt@ nps.gov ; phyllis_Ewing@ nps.gov ; gerard_baker@ nps.gov ; Bonnie Jancik ; ghost horse ; joe white ; K HeddenSent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:25 AMSubject: World Heritage status being sought for Newark EarthworksClick here: WOSU: 60 Mile Walk Highlights Ohio Indian Mound Sites. (2009-10-09)Some letters from all of you might be of help to this effort for World Heritage status for the Newark EarthworksTed SojkaNative Earthworks Preservation / Iowa
This email message and any files or other information transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not review, disclose, distribute or copy this e-mail or take any action in reliance upon its contents. Please notify the sender immediately if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Ho-Chunk Nation. The Ho-Chunk Nation specifically disclaims liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.