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Nanih Waiya

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  • Vince
    Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 2, 2009
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      Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

      http://www.uga.edu/toli/information/nanih.html
    • Vincent Barrows
      Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt. ...
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
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        Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

        -------

        Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

        Ted 
        Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

        On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


        On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
        traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
        lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
        connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
        Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
        found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
        Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

        One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
        know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
        strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
        Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
        highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
        statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
        because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
        Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
        and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
        were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
        village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
        was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
        valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

        At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
        answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
        belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

        - - - - - 

        PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

        Editor American Antiquarian.

        I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
        builders. I am unable to give you the name of any parties in Mississippi who
        have made explorations among the mounds.

        I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
        Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
        one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
        with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
        Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
        from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
        acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

        A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
        nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
        terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
        the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
        stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
        greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
        certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
        high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
        at intervals in this rampart.

        Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
        mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
        by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
        may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
        connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
        disappeared.

        But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
        Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
        the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
        rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
        ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
        of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
        up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

        I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
        annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
        road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
        evidence of its great antiquity.

        Could this road have been built by the builders of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
        The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
        swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

        I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
        ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
        are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
        three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
        constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

        Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
        are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
        Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
        Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
        called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
        on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
        thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
        highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
        Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mere conjecture. But
        could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
        the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
        such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
        thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

        H. S. HALBERT.
        Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

        The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
        November 1891

        [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
        http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 



        --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@...> wrote:

        From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
        Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Nanih Waiya
        To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

         
        Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

        http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html


      • simon brighton
        I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
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          I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any proposed work.

          I have recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking them apart beyond comprehension.

          FYI my photos of UK  hills:

          http://picasaweb.google.com/damienbruer/InspiredByNatureFormerlyHolyHills?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyub5TQ#



          From: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Barrows
          Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
          To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Nanih Waiya

           

          Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

          -------

          Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

          Ted 
          Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

          On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


          On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
          traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
          lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
          connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
          Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
          found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
          Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

          One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
          know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
          strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
          Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
          highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
          statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
          because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
          Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
          and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
          were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
          village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
          was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
          valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

          At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
          answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
          belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

          - - - - - 

          PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

          Editor American Antiquarian.

          I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
          builders. I am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi who
          have made explorations among the mounds.

          I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
          Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
          one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
          with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
          Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
          from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
          acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

          A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
          nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
          terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
          the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
          stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
          greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
          certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
          high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
          at intervals in this rampart.

          Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
          mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
          by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
          may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
          connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
          disappeared.

          But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
          Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
          the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
          rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
          ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
          of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
          up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

          I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
          annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
          road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
          evidence of its great antiquity.

          Could this road have been built by the build ers of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
          The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
          swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

          I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
          ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
          are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
          three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
          constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

          Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
          are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
          Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
          Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
          called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
          on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
          thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
          highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
          Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
          could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
          the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
          such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
          thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

          H. S. HALBERT.
          Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

          The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
          November 1891

          [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
          http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 



          --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:


          From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
          Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
          To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
          Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

           
          Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

          http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html




          I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
          We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
          SPAMfighter has removed 45 of my spam emails to date.
          The Professional version does not have this message.
        • joe white
          O siyo Brothers, and Sisters, The destruction of these Sacred Mounds is inexcusable, but NOTHING compared to what we as Cherokee, and american indians suffer
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            O'siyo Brothers, and Sisters,
             
            The destruction of these Sacred Mounds is inexcusable, but
            NOTHING compared to what we as Cherokee, and american indians
            suffer every single day.  You will never see it in the newspapers,
            or on TV News.
             
            I would not even have an idea as to how to start to explain it to you.
             
            Massive Genocide of 6 Million Disenfranched Cherokee, against United
            Nations Law to start with, with intent by the U.S. Government,
            Lying to a Federal Judge, shreading evidence, lying to Congress, Treason
            against the U.S. Constitution, etc., etc.
             
            You would cry.
             
            Gah gey you e,
             
            Sitting Owl
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:03 PM
            Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Nanih Waiya

             

            I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any proposed work.

            I have recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking them apart beyond comprehension.

            FYI my photos of UK  hills:

            http://picasaweb. google.com/ damienbruer/ InspiredByNature FormerlyHolyHill s?authkey= Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyu b5TQ#



            From: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ancient_ waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Barrows
            Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
            To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

             

            Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

            -------

            Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

            Ted 
            Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

            On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


            On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
            traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
            lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
            connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
            Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
            found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
            Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

            One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
            know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
            strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
            Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
            highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
            statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
            because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
            Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
            and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
            were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
            village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
            was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
            valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

            At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
            answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
            belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

            - - - - - 

            PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

            Editor American Antiquarian.

            I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
            builders. I am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi who
            have made explorations among the mounds.

            I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
            Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
            one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
            with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
            Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
            from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
            acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

            A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
            nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
            terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
            the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
            stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
            greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
            certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
            high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
            at intervals in this rampart.

            Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
            mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
            by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
            may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
            connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
            disappeared.

            But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
            Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
            the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
            rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
            ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
            of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
            up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

            I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
            annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
            road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
            evidence of its great antiquity.

            Could this road have been built by the build ers of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
            The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
            swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

            I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
            ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
            are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
            three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
            constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

            Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
            are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
            Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
            Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
            called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
            on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
            thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
            highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
            Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
            could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
            the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
            such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
            thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

            H. S. HALBERT.
            Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

            The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
            November 1891

            [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
            http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 



            --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:


            From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
            Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
            To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

             
            Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

            http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html




            I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
            We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
            SPAMfighter has removed 45 of my spam emails to date.
            The Professional version does not have this message.

          • Martin Carriere
            This is a common effect of the world today and has been since commerce and the inherent destructive force of men was allowed to over-tip the balance of what it
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              This is a common effect of the world today and has been since commerce and the inherent destructive force of men was allowed to over-tip the balance of what it means to be people. One fifth of the world's population of people died from the papal lead spiritual cleansing of the new world in less than 100 years.
              Recently the mummified remains of many ancestors in Peru were destroyed as new roads and other travesties were created by the false assumption that nature needs to be conquered and any history not part of the so called Amero dream is of little worth. You can also look up the Red Hill Valley in Ontario and the traditional burial grounds where an earthmover drove over the site and deposited the bones in a huge pile and the bureaucrat said "there are your remains - you can sort through them".

              Yet the same has gone on in the old world too - See the "Hill of Tara" etc. It is just all signs of the sickness of selfishness that can affect each of us to divide us from the true human family that is not based on nation or skin but on the love in each of our hearts. I am proud to hear the sensitive hearts speak out and applaud all efforts to dissuade the insensitive from making any more mistakes.

              All our love,
              Les Metis
              Martin Carriere

              --- On Wed, 9/16/09, simon brighton <simon@...> wrote:

              From: simon brighton <simon@...>
              Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Nanih Waiya
              To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 5:03 PM

               

              I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any proposed work.

              I have recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking them apart beyond comprehension.

              FYI my photos of UK  hills:

              http://picasaweb. google.com/ damienbruer/ InspiredByNature FormerlyHolyHill s?authkey= Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyu b5TQ#



              From: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ancient_ waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Barrows
              Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
              To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

               

              Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

              -------

              Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

              Ted 
              Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

              On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


              On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
              traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
              lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
              connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
              Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
              found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
              Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

              One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
              know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
              strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
              Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
              highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
              statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
              because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
              Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
              and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
              were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
              village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
              was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
              valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

              At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
              answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
              belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

              - - - - - 

              PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

              Editor American Antiquarian.

              I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
              builders. I am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi who
              have made explorations among the mounds.

              I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
              Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
              one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
              with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
              Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
              from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
              acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

              A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
              nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
              terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
              the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
              stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
              greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
              certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
              high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
              at intervals in this rampart.

              Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
              mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
              by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
              may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
              connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
              disappeared.

              But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
              Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
              the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
              rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
              ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
              of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
              up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

              I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
              annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
              road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
              evidence of its great antiquity.

              Could this road have been built by the build ers of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
              The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
              swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

              I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
              ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
              are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
              three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
              constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

              Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
              are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
              Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
              Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
              called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
              on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
              thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
              highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
              Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
              could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
              the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
              such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
              thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

              H. S. HALBERT.
              Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

              The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
              November 1891

              [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
              http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 


              --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:


              From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
              Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
              To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

               
              Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

              http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html




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            • Ted Sojka
              Thanks for your thoughts Joe, and there are so many trail of tears stories in our history. Zinn s History of America is a good read for most or the book by
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for your thoughts Joe, and there are so many trail of tears stories in our history.  Zinn's History of America is a good read for most or the book by Vine Deloria, native lawyer and writer, that is called "Red Earth, White Lies".  

                Black Elk Speaks started my journey forty years ago, or it may have been earlier than that on the Mohawk Trail where my father was from in Massachusetts.  Natives in that state took care of the pilgrims when they got here and even forgave the stealing of grain by starving Europeans from the graves of the departed.   I am sure when you read about Columbus in the West Indies and his treatment of the natives in accounts of the famous priest who was there to witness how they were treated.

                Ironic that Indios comes from In Dios, or meaning people who lived in the grace of God.  A romantic view but it was still the common one for the Europeans when they met the first Americans.  

                Ted 
                Be Well



                On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:17 PM, joe white wrote:


                O'siyo Brothers, and Sisters,
                 
                The destruction of these Sacred Mounds is inexcusable, but
                NOTHING compared to what we as Cherokee, and american indians
                suffer every single day.  You will never see it in the newspapers,
                or on TV News.
                 
                I would not even have an idea as to how to start to explain it to you.
                 
                Massive Genocide of 6 Million Disenfranched Cherokee, against United
                Nations Law to start with, with intent by the U.S. Government,
                Lying to a Federal Judge, shreading evidence, lying to Congress, Treason
                against the U.S. Constitution, etc., etc.
                 
                You would cry.
                 
                Gah gey you e,
                 
                Sitting Owl
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:03 PM
                Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

                 

                I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any proposed work.

                I have recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking them apart beyond comprehension.

                FYI my photos of UK  hills:

                http://picasaweb. google.com/ damienbruer/ InspiredByNature FormerlyHolyHill s?authkey= Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyu b5TQ#



                From: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ancient_ waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Barrows
                Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
                To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

                 

                Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

                -------

                Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

                Ted 
                Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

                On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


                On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
                traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
                lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
                connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
                Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
                found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
                Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

                One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
                know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
                strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
                Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
                highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
                statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
                because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
                Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
                and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
                were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
                village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
                was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
                valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

                At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
                answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
                belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

                - - - - - 

                PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

                Editor American Antiquarian.

                I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
                builders. I am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi who
                have made explorations among the mounds.

                I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
                Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
                one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
                with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
                Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
                from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
                acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

                A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
                nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
                terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
                the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
                stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
                greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
                certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
                high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
                at intervals in this rampart.

                Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
                mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
                by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
                may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
                connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
                disappeared.

                But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
                Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
                the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
                rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
                ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
                of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
                up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

                I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
                annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
                road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
                evidence of its great antiquity.

                Could this road have been built by the build ers of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
                The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
                swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

                I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
                ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
                are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
                three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
                constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

                Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
                are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
                Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
                Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
                called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
                on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
                thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
                highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
                Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
                could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
                the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
                such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
                thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

                H. S. HALBERT.
                Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

                The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
                November 1891

                [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
                http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 


                --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:


                From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
                To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

                 
                Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well. 

                http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html





                I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
                We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
                SPAMfighter has removed 45 of my spam emails to date.
                The Professional version does not have this message.



              • Martin Carriere
                Aho cousin Joe, Great sadness indeed follows us in this journey. Your thoughts are heard. Best to all, Martin Carriere ... From: joe white
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Aho cousin Joe,

                  Great sadness indeed follows us in this journey. Your thoughts are heard.

                  Best to all,

                  Martin Carriere

                  --- On Wed, 9/16/09, joe white <joe_white@...> wrote:

                  From: joe white <joe_white@...>
                  Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Destruction of Sacred Mounds
                  To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "agnesthomas" <agnesthomas@...>, "Alice Henry" <aghenry@...>, "Amisa Yellowbird" <ayellowbird2@...>, "calmwaters2005" <calmwaters2005@...>, "carolwortman" <cwortman1@...>, "chrisitne Sweat." <wolfhawk1@...>, "Corbin, Johnny" <Johnny.Corbin@...>, "Darren Cole" <attorneydarrencole@...>, "Dennis Wilson" <Dwilson482@...>, "Derrick Keith" <youngroots@...>, "duke" <duke@...>, "Fred and Marcy Palmer, Belle Meade Farm" <bellemeadefarm@...>, "GTECI Dr. Sneed" <GTECI@...>, "HCross" <HCross@...>, "HELEN WIDENER" <hwidener@...>, "Janine Lockwood" <hawk33down@...>, "Jeff Blevins" <wjeffb@...>, "Jessie Smith" <morningstarjls@...>, "jewalters" <jewalters@...>, "Jimi Kelley" <jkelley@...>, "John Harper" <southerncu@...>, "Karen Burgess Gavis" <Karenskollection@...>, "Kim Sizemore" <allaboutimage@...>, "KimberyNichol Walters" <KimberyNichol@...>, "Lazer Brody" <rabbi_lazer@...>, "Lee Vest" <leevest022@...>, "Lkalen" <Lkalen@...>, "channah" <ltljeannie@...>, "Lytespirit" <lytecreations@...>, "Michelle Franklin" <radtherapy7@...>, "Mitchell Jamesson" <mitchelljamesson@...>, "pennycheekpenn" <pennycheekpenn@...>, "robert degnen" <r.f.degnen@...>, "Roberta Estes" <robertajestes@...>, "Robin Harpe" <robinharpe@...>, "RR" <hzwae@...>, "steve.stclair" <steve.stclair@...>, "Ted Sojka" <tedsojka@...>, "THRONE GRACE" <throne_grace@...>, "ThunderinHorse" <ThunderinHorse@...>, "Todd Cole" <toddcole12@...>, "wayne" <wayne@...>, "Wolter, Scott" <swolter@...>, "zhstar" <zhstar@...>
                  Received: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 6:17 PM

                   

                  O'siyo Brothers, and Sisters,
                   
                  The destruction of these Sacred Mounds is inexcusable, but
                  NOTHING compared to what we as Cherokee, and american indians
                  suffer every single day.  You will never see it in the newspapers,
                  or on TV News.
                   
                  I would not even have an idea as to how to start to explain it to you.
                   
                  Massive Genocide of 6 Million Disenfranched Cherokee, against United
                  Nations Law to start with, with intent by the U.S. Government,
                  Lying to a Federal Judge, shreading evidence, lying to Congress, Treason
                  against the U.S. Constitution, etc., etc.
                   
                  You would cry.
                   
                  Gah gey you e,
                   
                  Sitting Owl
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:03 PM
                  Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

                   

                  I find this really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any proposed work.

                  I have recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking them apart beyond comprehension.

                  FYI my photos of UK  hills:

                  http://picasaweb. google.com/ damienbruer/ InspiredByNature FormerlyHolyHill s?authkey= Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyu b5TQ#



                  From: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ancient_ waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Barrows
                  Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
                  To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya

                   

                  Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for fill dirt.

                  -------

                  Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.  

                  Ted 
                  Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa

                  On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:


                  On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails, buffalo
                  traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long straight ceremonial
                  lane at Fort Ancient as a few examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
                  connected Chillicothe and Newark. The following account comes from
                  Mississippi. It describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
                  found in Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound. The
                  Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 

                  One thing you don't get in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
                  know who built the mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
                  strikes me as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked an
                  Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the mounds. I
                  highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that the whole
                  statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption. I say this
                  because when you get the statement you never are given any detail. Take
                  Newark history for example, who was the white person asking the question,
                  and presumably recording the answer? What was the name of the Indian? Who
                  were the Indian's people? Where did they live? Was it in a camp or a
                  village? How long had the Indian's family been living in the area? What year
                  was it? What mound was being asked about? There's never a back story. How
                  valuable even one little detail would be to us now!

                  At least from Mississippi we get some specifics and a reason to believe the
                  answer given by the Choctaws because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
                  belonged to THEIR ancestors. . . Pat 

                  - - - - - 

                  PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN MISSISSIPPI.

                  Editor American Antiquarian.

                  I received your circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
                  builders. I am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi who
                  have made explorations among the mounds.

                  I would, however, call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
                  Waiyah mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
                  one which they claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
                  with the Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner of
                  Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about fifty yards
                  from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers three-fourth of an
                  acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of one-fourth of an acre.

                  A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound - the rampart being perhaps
                  nearly a mile and a half in length, and each end or extremity of the rampart
                  terminating upon the bank of Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
                  the mound, the other the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
                  stands exactly mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
                  greater part of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
                  certain place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five feet
                  high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather, gate-ways, along
                  at intervals in this rampart.

                  Whether a low rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
                  mound, can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was cultivated
                  by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into the country, and
                  may have been cultivated by the Indians for generations, and if such a low
                  connecting rampart ever existed, all traces of it have long since
                  disappeared.

                  But another matter connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
                  Waiyah creek bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
                  the creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while a
                  rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the high
                  ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the mound are traces
                  of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years ago I traced this road
                  up for some hundred yards. It leads directly towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.

                  I traced it up until all traces were lost in the intervening swamp, the
                  annual overflows which would necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
                  road. Now, I noticed some large forest trees standing in this road, an
                  evidence of its great antiquity.

                  Could this road have been built by the build ers of the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
                  The terminus of the last trace of this road, just as it projected into the
                  swamp, is scarcely a mile from the mound, and pointing directly towards it.

                  I have seen in Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
                  ancient, for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
                  are narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at least
                  three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders have
                  constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary Indian trail?

                  Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the east side of the Tombigbee,
                  are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this one, near the Nanih
                  Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its center. This road crosses the
                  Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which are ten miles below Columbus, so
                  called from this circumstance. There is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
                  on Line Creek, in the northern part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
                  thought that this ancient road across the Tombigbee may have been the
                  highway connecting this cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
                  Greene and Perry Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
                  could not the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
                  the bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use of
                  such an expression? How can we account for the construction of such ancient
                  thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common Indian foot paths?

                  H. S. HALBERT.
                  Garlandsville, Miss., Nov. 7, 1891

                  The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
                  November 1891

                  [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
                  http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html.] 


                  --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com> wrote:


                  From: Vince <v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
                  To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM

                   
                  Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi, is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other southeastern tribes as well.

                  http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/ nanih.html




                  I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
                  We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
                  SPAMfighter has removed 45 of my spam emails to date.
                  The Professional version does not have this message.



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                • Susan
                  Ted, Vince, Joe, Simon, Metis Martin and all... I learned about the Oxford, Alabama destruction late last night from a UK newsletter. was sickened reading the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 16, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Ted, Vince, Joe, Simon, Metis Martin and all...

                    I learned about the Oxford, Alabama destruction late last night from a UK newsletter. was sickened reading the articles, seeing the photos.  Deeply stirred by the heartfelt posts here this evening,  I too need to be part of these efforts.

                    Of a number of YouTube video clips on the Alabama mound, the following shows a number of sacred sites destroyed around North and Central America for Walmart constructions alone.

                     "Save a Native Sacred Burial Mound From Destruction": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFvV6jOBOAs

                    I am emailing contact people listed at the above YouTube and Ted's web site.

                    I am one citizen who does not want to see the 'land of plenty' return to the "business as usual" of government and the people of past centuries....but a long-needed, forewarned, and just reckoning.....

                    Susan, traveling ancient global wateways,  hoping we rediscover who we human beings really are....

                     

                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Martin Carriere <metismartin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This is a common effect of the world today and has been since commerce and the inherent destructive force of men was allowed to over-tip the balance of what it means to be people. One fifth of the world's population of people died from the papal lead spiritual cleansing of the new world in less than 100 years.
                    > Recently the mummified remains of many ancestors in Peru were destroyed as new roads and other travesties were created by the false assumption that nature needs to be conquered and any history not part of the so called Amero dream is of little worth. You can also look up the Red Hill Valley in Ontario and the traditional burial grounds where an earthmover drove over the site and deposited the bones in a huge pile and the bureaucrat said "there are your remains - you can sort through them".
                    >
                    > Yet the same has gone on in the old world too - See the "Hill of Tara" etc. It is just all signs of the sickness of selfishness that can affect each of us to divide us from the true human family that is not based on nation or skin but on the love in each of our hearts. I am proud to hear the sensitive hearts speak out and applaud all efforts to dissuade the insensitive from making any more mistakes.
                    >
                    > All our love,
                    > Les Metis
                    > Martin Carriere
                    >
                    > --- On Wed, 9/16/09, simon brighton simon@... wrote:
                    >
                    > From: simon brighton simon@...
                    > Subject: RE: [ancient_waterways_society] Nanih Waiya
                    > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > Received: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 5:03 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I find this
                    > really strange and disturbing , I was under the impression that native American
                    > monuments were protected and there was always a right of objection against any
                    > proposed work.
                    > I have
                    > recently been doing some work around sacred hills and find the idea of taking
                    > them apart beyond comprehension.
                    > FYI my photos
                    > of UK  hills:
                    > http://picasaweb. google.com/ damienbruer/ InspiredByNature FormerlyHolyHill s?authkey= Gv1sRgCOGoj9OMyu b5TQ#
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                    > [mailto:ancient_ waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent
                    > Barrows
                    > Sent: 16 September 2009 19:40
                    > To:
                    > ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Subject: Re:
                    > [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just received the following message from Ted Sojka, about the Nanih
                    > Waiya Mound. I am deeply troubled by the decision to remove this mound for
                    > fill dirt.
                    > -------
                    > Another mound near Oxford. Alabama, is being taken down as you read
                    > this for fill dirt . It is the sacred mother mound of the Choctaws
                    > according to the video on you tube of natives speaking out on this matter.
                    >  
                    > Ted 
                    > Native Earthworks Preservation/ Iowa
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Patricia Mason wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On the subject of ancient roads, in Ohio we had Indian trails,
                    > buffalo
                    > traces, graded ways, the Sacra Via in Marietta, a long
                    > straight ceremonial
                    > lane at Fort Ancient as a few
                    > examples additional to the Hopewell Road which
                    > connected Chillicothe
                    > and Newark. The following account comes from
                    > Mississippi. It
                    > describes a system of roads somewhat similar to what was
                    > found in
                    > Newark. It includes a lovely description of a Choctaw mound.
                    > The
                    > Choctaws even give us the name of the mound, Nanih Waiya. 
                    >
                    > One thing you don't get
                    > in this article is the old saw, the Indians didn't
                    > know who built the
                    > mounds. This is what they say about Newark and it always
                    > strikes me
                    > as funny (and racist, not funny) that someone supposedly asked
                    > an
                    > Indian who didn't know, therefore no Indians knew who built the
                    > mounds. I
                    > highly suspect that they asked the wrong Indian(s) and that
                    > the whole
                    > statement is not truth but myth based on false assumption.
                    > I say this
                    > because when you get the statement you never are given any
                    > detail. Take
                    > Newark history for example, who was the white person
                    > asking the question,
                    > and presumably recording the answer? What was
                    > the name of the Indian? Who
                    > were the Indian's people? Where did they
                    > live? Was it in a camp or a
                    > village? How long had the Indian's family
                    > been living in the area? What year
                    > was it? What mound was being asked
                    > about? There's never a back story. How
                    > valuable even one little
                    > detail would be to us now!
                    >
                    > At least from Mississippi we get some
                    > specifics and a reason to believe the
                    > answer given by the Choctaws
                    > because they tell us the Nanih Waiya mound
                    > belonged to THEIR
                    > ancestors. . . Pat 
                    >
                    > - - - - - 
                    >
                    > PYRAMID AND OLD ROAD IN
                    > MISSISSIPPI.
                    >
                    > Editor American Antiquarian.
                    >
                    > I received your
                    > circular in regard to your forthcoming work on the Mound
                    > builders. I
                    > am unable to give you the name of an y parties in Mississippi
                    > who
                    > have made explorations among the mounds.
                    >
                    > I would, however,
                    > call your attention to a pyramid mound, called the Nanih
                    > Waiyah
                    > mound, of Mississippi, and famed in the folk lore of the Choctaws as
                    > one which they
                    > claim as the cradle of their race. I am perfectly familiar
                    > with the
                    > Nanih Waiyah mound. It is situated in the southeastern corner
                    > of
                    > Winston county, on the west side of Nanih Waiyah creek and about
                    > fifty yards
                    > from it. The mound is forty feet high. Its base covers
                    > three-fourth of an
                    > acre. Its summit, which is flat, has an area of
                    > one-fourth of an acre.
                    >
                    > A semicircular rampart envelopes the mound
                    > - the rampart being perhaps
                    > nearly a mile and a half in length, and
                    > each end or extremity of the rampart
                    > terminating upon the bank of
                    > Nanih Waiyah creek, one about 600 yards above
                    > the mound, the other
                    > the same distance below the mound. In short, the mound
                    > stands exactly
                    > mid-way between the two extremities of the rampart. The
                    > greater part
                    > of this rampart has been worn down by the plow. But in a
                    > certain
                    > place where it traverses the primeval forest it is full five
                    > feet
                    > high. There are quiet a number of vacant spaces, or rather,
                    > gate-ways, along
                    > at intervals in this rampart.
                    >
                    > Whether a low
                    > rampart ever extended from each terminus on the creek to the
                    > mound,
                    > can now never be ascertained, as all around the mound was
                    > cultivated
                    > by the Choctaws in 1832, when the whites first came into
                    > the country, and
                    > may have been cultivated by the Indians for
                    > generations, and if such a low
                    > connecting rampart ever existed, all
                    > traces of it have long since
                    > disappeared.
                    >
                    > But another matter
                    > connected with the mound, I will mention. The Nanih
                    > Waiyah creek
                    > bottom, with is subject to overflow, is on the eastern side of
                    > the
                    > creek. The side on which the mound and rampart are situated, while
                    > a
                    > rather flat country, is far above the high water mark. Now, on the
                    > high
                    > ridge in the primeval forest, somewhat southeasterly of the
                    > mound are traces
                    > of a primeval road about four feet wide. Some years
                    > ago I traced this road
                    > up for some hundred yards. It leads directly
                    > towards the Nanih Waiyah mound.
                    >
                    > I traced it up until all traces
                    > were lost in the intervening swamp, the
                    > annual overflows which would
                    > necessarily soon destroy all traces of the
                    > road. Now, I noticed some
                    > large forest trees standing in this road, an
                    > evidence of its great
                    > antiquity.
                    >
                    > Could this road have been built by the build ers of
                    > the Nanih Waiyah Mound?
                    > The terminus of the last trace of this road,
                    > just as it projected into the
                    > swamp, is scarcely a mile from the
                    > mound, and pointing directly towards it.
                    >
                    > I have seen in
                    > Mississippi many an old Indian trail, and some of them quite
                    > ancient,
                    > for good sized trees were growing in them, but all Indian trails
                    > are
                    > narrow - mere foot paths. But this old road is wide enough for at
                    > least
                    > three persons to walk abreast. Now, could the Mound-builders
                    > have
                    > constructed and made use of roads much wider than the ordinary
                    > Indian trail?
                    >
                    > Some twelve miles below Columbus, Miss., on the
                    > east side of the Tombigbee,
                    > are the remnants of another ancient road similar to this
                    > one, near the Nanih
                    > Waiyah Mound, with large trees growing in its
                    > center. This road crosses the
                    > Tombigbee at the Ten Mile Shoals, which
                    > are ten miles below Columbus, so
                    > called from this circumstance. There
                    > is an ancient Mound-builders' cemetery
                    > on Line Creek, in the northern
                    > part of Oktilheha Co., Miss., and I have
                    > thought that this ancient
                    > road across the Tombigbee may have been the
                    > highway connecting this
                    > cemetery with the Mound-builders' settlements in
                    > Greene and Perry
                    > Counties, Alabama. However, this is mer e conjecture. But
                    > could not
                    > the Mound-builders have made use of rather wide roads in carrying
                    > the
                    > bodies of their dead to their national cemeteries, if I may make use
                    > of
                    > such an expression? How can we account for the construction of
                    > such ancient
                    > thoroughfares which are so much wider than the common
                    > Indian foot paths?
                    >
                    > H. S. HALBERT.
                    > Garlandsville, Miss., Nov.
                    > 7, 1891
                    >
                    > The American Antiquarian and Oriental Journal
                    > November
                    > 1891
                    >
                    > [There is a photo of Nanih Waiya Mound on
                    > http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/
                    > nanih.html.] 
                    >
                    >
                    > --- On
                    > Sun, 8/2/09, Vince v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From:
                    > Vince v_barrows@yahoo. com>
                    > Subject:
                    > [ancient_waterways_ society] Nanih Waiya
                    > To:
                    > ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Date: Sunday,
                    > August 2, 2009, 11:27 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    > Nanih Waiya, The Mother Mound, located near Preston, Mississippi,
                    > is considered the birthplace of the Choctaw Tribe, and other
                    > southeastern tribes as well.
                    >
                    > http://www.uga. edu/toli/ information/
                    > nanih.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >
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