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Inquiry from John White re: elephant-like artifacts + his latest MES aticle

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  • Susan
    Ancient Waterways members, I recieved an email inquiry from retired physicist and board member of Midwestern Epigraphic Society in Columbus, Ohio, Dr. John
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1 10:19 PM
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      Ancient Waterways members,
       
      I recieved an email inquiry from retired physicist and board member of Midwestern Epigraphic Society in Columbus, Ohio, Dr. John White (with his permission):
       
      Friday, July 31, 2009 7:14 PM
      From: "John White" johnwhite@...
      I am compiling a list of elephant-like artifacts in America.  Would you help me get some information on the Elephant Mound of Wisconsin?  Where is it?  Do we have a picture or drawing of it?  Has it been written up in recent times?  Thank you.
      John

      and earlier...."Susan:  You may use any of my finished works for the MES or Ancient American",  in regard to a July 19, 2009 email he wrote which included his recent (excellent)review published in the

      MIDWESTERN  EPIGRAPHIC  NEWSLETTER ,  Volume  26 ,  Number  3 ,  2009

      REVIEW  OF  A  NEW  BOOK  BY  SORENSON  AND JOHANNESSEA  DEATH  KNELL  FOR  ISOLATIONISM 

      I would be remiss if I copied and pasted John's article because, as you have seen before, photos will not transfer directly into YahooGroups Messages.  If you write John,  please ask if he will email you his review.  Then one of you more computer-savy hopefully can transfer it to our site.  Best that John join our membership and put the Review directly into our Files or Attachments.  I ask you all to please post and insert these things directly to the site.

      Thank you,  Susan

    • Rick Osmon
      Regarding the elephant effigy mounds, there almost certainly were more than one. The best documented example seems to have been / be in Grant County, WI. In
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 2 9:15 AM
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        Regarding the elephant effigy mounds, there almost certainly were more than one. The best documented example seems to have been / be in Grant County, WI. In recent years, is was examined using airborne laser altimetry (as the weather and man made wear have severely reduced its unaided visibility).

        For the old documentation and the location, please see:

        Animal Carvings from Mounds of the Mississippi Valley by Henry W. Henshaw

        http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18184/18184-h/18184-h.htm
        page 153.

        I have to go rescue a damsel in distress right now, but I'll try to find an satellite image when I get home.

        Oz


        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ancient Waterways members, I recieved an email inquiry from retired
        > physicist and board member of Midwestern Epigraphic Society in Columbus,
        > Ohio, Dr. John White (with his permission): Friday, July 31, 2009 7:14
        > PM From: "John White" johnwhite@...
        > <mailto:johnwhite@... I am compiling a list of
        > elephant-like artifacts in America. Would you help me get some
        > information on the Elephant Mound of Wisconsin? Where is it? Do we
        > have a picture or drawing of it? Has it been written up in recent
        > times? Thank you. John
        > and earlier...."Susan: You may use any of my finished works for the MES
        > or Ancient American", in regard to a July 19, 2009 email he wrote which
        > included his recent (excellent)review published in the
        >
        > MIDWESTERN EPIGRAPHIC NEWSLETTER , Volume 26 , Number 3 , 2009
        >
        > REVIEW OF A NEW BOOK BY SORENSON AND JOHANNESSEA DEATH KNELL
        > FOR ISOLATIONISM
        >
        > I would be remiss if I copied and pasted John's article because, as you
        > have seen before, photos will not transfer directly into YahooGroups
        > Messages. If you write John, please ask if he will email you his
        > review. Then one of you more computer-savy hopefully can transfer it to
        > our site. Best that John join our membership and put the Review
        > directly into our Files or Attachments. I ask you all to please post
        > and insert these things directly to the site.
        >
        > Thank you, Susan
        >
      • Susan
        Thanks Rick, Steve, Joe, and all. John White and others interested in elephant, mastadon, and mammoth motif, artifacts, might want to see some of the older
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 2 10:04 AM
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          Thanks Rick, Steve, Joe, and all. 

          John White and others interested in elephant, mastadon, and mammoth motif, artifacts, might want to see some of the older posts on the subject, #689 has several web sites leading to research, drawings, artifacts from the late 1800's, early 1900's.  Below that are more posts from other members with additional comments and   links on the subject.   http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/message/689

          Susan


          --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Osmon" <ozman@...> wrote:
          >
          > Regarding the elephant effigy mounds, there almost certainly were more
          > than one. The best documented example seems to have been / be in Grant
          > County, WI. In recent years, is was examined using airborne laser
          > altimetry (as the weather and man made wear have severely reduced its
          > unaided visibility).
          >
          > For the old documentation and the location, please see:
          > Animal Carvings from Mounds of the Mississippi Valley by Henry W.
          > Henshawhttp://www.gutenberg.org/files/18184/18184-h/18184-h.htm
          > page 153.
          >
          > I have to go rescue a damsel in distress right now, but I'll try to find
          > an satellite image when I get home.
          >
          > Oz
          >
          >
          > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan"
          > beldingenglish@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Ancient Waterways members, I recieved an email inquiry from retired
          > > physicist and board member of Midwestern Epigraphic Society in
          > Columbus,
          > > Ohio, Dr. John White (with his permission): Friday, July 31, 2009
          > 7:14
          > > PM From: "John White" johnwhite@
          > > <mailto:johnwhite@ I am compiling a list of
          > > elephant-like artifacts in America. Would you help me get some
          > > information on the Elephant Mound of Wisconsin? Where is it? Do we
          > > have a picture or drawing of it? Has it been written up in recent
          > > times? Thank you. John
          > > and earlier...."Susan: You may use any of my finished works for the
          > MES
          > > or Ancient American", in regard to a July 19, 2009 email he wrote
          > which
          > > included his recent (excellent)review published in the
          > >
          > > MIDWESTERN EPIGRAPHIC NEWSLETTER , Volume 26 , Number 3 , 2009
          > >
          > > REVIEW OF A NEW BOOK BY SORENSON AND JOHANNESSEA DEATH KNELL
          > > FOR ISOLATIONISM
          > >
          > > I would be remiss if I copied and pasted John's article because, as
          > you
          > > have seen before, photos will not transfer directly into YahooGroups
          > > Messages. If you write John, please ask if he will email you his
          > > review. Then one of you more computer-savy hopefully can transfer it
          > to
          > > our site. Best that John join our membership and put the Review
          > > directly into our Files or Attachments. I ask you all to please post
          > > and insert these things directly to the site.
          > >
          > > Thank you, Susan
          > >
          >

        • Vince
          Here is also a link to the Seneca and Iroquois National Museum Library information on Mammoths and Mastodons.
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 2 10:47 AM
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            Here is also a link to the Seneca and Iroquois National Museum Library information on Mammoths and Mastodons.

            http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/Marburg72/mastadon%20mammoth/?action=view¤t=mastodon.jpg
          • Chris Patenaude
            Hello, all It occurs to me that, in the case of the afore-mentioned Elephant Pipes , the critics do not extend their visualization to BABY elephants. They
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 11 3:03 PM
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            • 173 KB
            Hello, all
            It occurs to me that, in the case of the afore-mentioned "Elephant Pipes", the critics do not extend their visualization to BABY elephants. They have very short trunks, no tusks, and about as much meat on them as an elk. Tender, too. Besides its assumed tastiness on the menu, we do not have any idea what spiritual or sacred symbology an infant elephant might have in the tribal traditions. Perhaps it was linked with life-renewal, the Start of Something Big (seeing as how they could figure the pachyderms lived at least as long as they did).
             
            Then again, more 'down to earth'... There is research showing specific parallels to East Indian practices among the SW tribes here in the US. Archetectural patterns, village/pueblo layouts, similar uses of pollens & paint as sacred substances, dance and ceremony have some eerie echos between Native Amn's and the original "east Indian". If we consider this branch of comparisons, it might suggest some of the Ganesh reverence could have been reflected from the Red River Valley (of the south) and up the Mississippi trade net. I found this... exerpted from:

            >   http://www.thaiexotictreasures.com/lord_ganesh.html   <

             Overview of Lord Ganesh

             

            This statue of Lord Ganesha was created in the Mysore District of Karnataka in the 13th century.

             

            Lord Ganesh acquired his head through varying methods in different stories. In one, Shiva decapitated him because Lord Ganesha refused to allow him to enter the bath while Parvati was bathing. Shiva had to give him the new head to placate his wife. In another version, Parvati showed the child off to Shiva, whose face burned his head to ashes, which Brahma told Shiva to replace with the first head he could find—in this case, that of an elephant. The lack of a second tusk is explained by different stories. An avatar of Vishnu, Parashurama, once went to visit Shiva but the way was blocked by Lord Ganesh. Parasurama threw his axe at him and  Lord Ganesha, knowing the axe had been given to him by Shiva, allowed it to cut off one of his tusks. Yet another myth is that, in the process of writing the Mahabharata (at the dictation of Vyasa), Lord Ganesh found that his pen had broken, and in the urgency of taking down the great words, snapped off his left tusk as a replacement quill.

            Lord Ganesha is known as Aumkara, because his body mirrors the shape of the Aum; the elephant god is thus seen as the embodiment of the cosmos. His elephantine head symbolizes the intelligence and beatitude of the elephant, powerful, yet gentle. His vehicle is a mouse (mooshikam), and this symbolizes the intellect, small enough to find out any secret in the most remote of places. It also signifies his humility, that he espouses the company of one of the smaller creatures.

            He is the lord of wisdom, intelligence, education, prudence, luck and fortune, gates, doors, doorways, household and writing. He is the remover of obstacles, and as such it is normal to invoke him before the undertaking of any task with such incantations as Aum Shri Ganeshaya Namah (hail the name of Ganesha), or similar.

            …..

            Birth of Lord Ganesha - The first incident is the birth of Lord Ganesh and how he got his elephant head. When Parvati was idly playing around with some mud one day, she noticed that she had unwittingly created the form of a boy. When she noticed this and expressed surprise at the beauty of the form, she breathed life into it and thus Lord Ganesha was created. This occured in the days when Shiva used to go away on long periods of meditation/tapas. The boy thus grew with time. It then so happened that one day Parvati asked Lord Ganesh to stay outside and guard the house while she bathed. She was specific that nobody should be let inside. The little boy understood the instructions and took it seriously. Thus when Shiva happened to come by and saw a young boy guarding the door, he was surprised. He tried to go in but Lord Ganesha bared him from entering. Shiva questioned him, but the boy simply sayed that his mom has forbid anybody from entering the house. Shiva at first reasoned with him, and then got angry and cut of Lord Ganesh's head with his Trishul (trident). Parvati obviously on hearing this commotion and learning what has happened is disconsolate. She demanded that Shiva restore Ganesha's life at once. But unfortunately, Shiva's Trishul was so powerful that it had hurled Ganesha's head very far off. All attempts to find the head were in vain. As a last resort, Shiva approached Brahma who suggested that he replace Lord Ganesha's head with the first animal that comes his way. Shiva sent his ganas to accordingly get the head of the first thing that they saw. The ganas spotted a baby elephant whose head got transplanted onto Lord Ganesh. [italics mine...CAP] That is the reason Mud Ganeshas are made to this day in the villages of India for worship during Lord Ganesh Chaturti and then dissolved in flowing water or well water. ( No other God is worshipped thus ). That is also the reason shape is also given to Lord Ganesha using the auspicious turmeric instead of mud, for "first pooja" before the start of any major pooja. 

             

            On another tack, the retained IMAGE and description of the Mastodon/Mammoth creatures could have been carried verbally down many generations, especially if there were cave carvings and images which COULD have dated from co-existant times... Even if, by the Moundbuilders' era, the creatures were indeed extinct. I'm thinking specifically of a Mastodon shape carved by 'scratch art' onto the wall of an inner chamber of the Coopna Cave of Iowa. See attached. That is only one image we know about. Who knows how many other petroglyph sites hiding in unknown places retained the shape and dimensions for memory's sake, long after the original critter was gone. Notice the Coopna example, for all its exactitude, also has little or no tusks. Perhaps it was images like these that the Moundbuilders were running on, not personal experience.
            -chris

            --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Vince <v_barrows@...> wrote:

            From: Vince <v_barrows@...>
            Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Elephant-like artifacts (responding to John White inquiry/latest MES article)
            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 12:47 PM

            Here is also a link to the Seneca and Iroquois National Museum Library information on Mammoths and Mastodons.

            http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/Marburg72/mastadon%20mammoth/?action=view¤t=mastodon.jpg



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