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"Fishtrap" Bill Frazier, ancient fish weirs, "Ancient Hunter" articles/link

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  • Susan
    Bill, Joe, Ted, members here, I hope you were able to get together with Joe Sitting Owl last week; Joe must live in a neighboring southern state, too. I
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 25, 2009
      Bill, Joe, Ted, members here,
       
      I hope you were able to get together with Joe Sitting Owl last week; Joe must live in a neighboring southern state, too.  I knew nothing of ancient fish traps, weirs  until I started looking up the subject, from your posts to the group here.  I have also added your term  "riverine cultural resources" to a paragraph I sent to newcomers which includes what Ancient Waterways Society is all about.
       
      Of course, if you are listed on the World Wide Web, I am probably going to find you, and to continue in further introducing you here...I hope you all don't mind when I do this....a paragraph from some of your retiree friends, 2005:
      Bill Frazier retired in 1983 but did not stop running and investigating just because he was no longer getting paid. Bill began studying fish traps in the State of Georgia. For 15 years he used his interest and expertise in Archaeology to locate, photograph and document fish traps. In 2004 his work finally was recognized by the Society for Georgia Archaeology. Bill's paper, Georgia's Fish Trap Dams was published in Volume 32, No 1. in June 2004. A good read, keep up the good work Bill.
      And, a copywritten Masters thesis written by a anthropology student from the State University of New York, acknowledges Bill for his generous assistance: "Prehistoric Fishweirs in Eastern North America" (1992, 2004) : http://www.lutins.org/thesis/index.html
       
      Here is an ongoing web site called Ancient Hunter  .....A Look at Indigenous Hunting and Fishing Techniques with a number of current articles which includes a May, 2009 article w/photo of a fishweir from this year's Ancient Fishweir Project in downtown Boston. This isan educational organization which brings Boston school children together with local artists, archaeologists and Native Americans to annually recreate a replica of an ancient fish weir.

      Bill, if you have a link to the article you wrote, please post it into our Files  and also in a Post. I am sure some here and future members will be interested in more on this subject very much related to this group. 

        Susan

      --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Bill Frazier <fishtrap@...> wrote:

       Ted,
           Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my favorite subject "riverine cultural resources".  Tho an avocational, I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their cultural remains in the State of Georgia.  The most of these came from various documents.
           The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be interested in my interests.
       Bill Frazier
      >

    • Susan
      Fishtrap Bill and other members might find interesting this discovery on the west coast of Ireland....from Andy s Megalithic Portal News:
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 2, 2010

        Fishtrap Bill and other members might find interesting this discovery on the west coast of Ireland....from Andy's Megalithic Portal News:  http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=27739

        Megalithic Portal News (Wikepedia):  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Megalithic_Portal

         

        --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Bill Frazier <fishtrap@...> wrote:

        > Joe,
        >     I will take you up on the visit to the large fish trap at your Cherokee Camp.
        > Let me know how to contact you and is during the week or weekend better?  I have found (in the records) that 22 Cherokee were paid for fish traps as part of their improvements. These were on the Etowah (Hightower) River here in Georgia.
        > Bill
        > 404/292-9255
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: joe white joe_white@...
        > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:19:08 PM
        > Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Ted Sojka
        >
        >  
        > O'siyo Bill,
        >
        > I am sure that we have a very large fish trap at
        > our Cherokee Camp location.
        >
        > If you are near Lawrenceburg, TN, I will be happy to show you.
        >
        > Gah gey you e,
        >
        > Sitting Owl
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > >From: Bill Frazier
        > >To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
        > >Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:06 PM
        > >Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Ted Sojka
        > >
        > > 
        > >Ted,
        > >    Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my favorite subject "riverine cultural resources".  Tho an avocational, I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their cultural remains in the State of Georgia.  The most of these came from various documents.
        > >    The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be interested in my interests.
        > >Bill Frazier
        >

      • Ted Sojka
        Here is a site to examine. http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-fishweir.html Hope your health is getting better. ted
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 26, 2013
          Here is a site to examine.


          Hope your health is getting better.  

          ted
          On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:

           

          Ted,
              Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my favorite subject "riverine cultural resources".  Tho an avocational, I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their cultural remains in the State of Georgia.  The most of these came from various documents.
              The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be interested in my interests.
          Bill Frazier


        • Susan
          Ted, I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is considered by archaelogists
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 26, 2013
            Ted,

            I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the fish traps of the Eastern United States".  

            I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison, WI).  On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group. 

            Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as you have strongly advocated.   I believe many here will appreciate the information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to Ask".

            We at AWS know who to ask.  Thank you, Bill...please keep posting.  And Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.  

            I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives. 

            Susan English, Central Wisconsin

            --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
            >
            > Here is a site to examine.
            >
            > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-fishweir.html
            >
            > Hope your health is getting better.
            >
            > ted
            > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Ted,
            > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
            > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
            > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
            > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
            > > from various documents.
            > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
            > > interested in my interests.
            > > Bill Frazier
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Susan
            http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf ... this ... soon ... which ... You ... to ... And ...
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 26, 2013
              http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf

              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
              >
              > Ted,
              > I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this
              > beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by
              > archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the
              > fish traps of the Eastern United States".
              > I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon
              > after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan
              > webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison,
              > WI). On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which
              > I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group.
              > Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as
              > you have strongly advocated. I believe many here will appreciate the
              > information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You
              > Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to
              > Ask".
              > We at AWS know who to ask. Thank you, Bill...please keep posting. And
              > Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.
              > I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject
              > heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives.
              >
              > Susan English, Central Wisconsin
              > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
              > >
              > > Here is a site to examine.
              > >
              > >
              > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-f\
              > ishweir.html
              > >
              > > Hope your health is getting better.
              > >
              > > ted
              > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Ted,
              > > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
              > > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
              > > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
              > > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
              > > > from various documents.
              > > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
              > > > interested in my interests.
              > > > Bill Frazier
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Vincent Barrows
              Here is a site to examine sturgeon depictions http://www2.brandonu.ca/library/CJNS/18.2/cjnsv18no2_pg203-232.pdf
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 26, 2013
                Here is a site to examine sturgeon depictions

                http://www2.brandonu.ca/library/CJNS/18.2/cjnsv18no2_pg203-232.pdf


                From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>;
                To: <ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com>;
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
                Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 1:04:39 AM

                 

                Ted,

                I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the fish traps of the Eastern United States".  

                I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison, WI).  On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group. 

                Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as you have strongly advocated.   I believe many here will appreciate the information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to Ask".

                We at AWS know who to ask.  Thank you, Bill...please keep posting.  And Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.  

                I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives. 

                Susan English, Central Wisconsin

                --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
                >
                > Here is a site to examine.
                >
                > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-fishweir.html
                >
                > Hope your health is getting better.
                >
                > ted
                > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > Ted,
                > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
                > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
                > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
                > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
                > > from various documents.
                > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
                > > interested in my interests.
                > > Bill Frazier
                > >
                > >
                >
              • william smith
                Susan   It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 27, 2013
                  Susan
                    It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its most practical use was to process fish. Their are more ancient fish traps in R.I than all of the other states combined. These stone structures still exist on the sea coast as well as in small streams. Many propose this was a process used by native Americans, however study shows it was a common process for fisherman from Europe.
                  William
                  --- On Wed, 6/26/13, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:

                  From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
                  Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
                  To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013, 9:05 PM

                   
                  http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf

                  --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
                  >
                  > Ted,
                  > I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this
                  > beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by
                  > archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the
                  > fish traps of the Eastern United States".
                  > I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon
                  > after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan
                  > webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison,
                  > WI). On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which
                  > I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group.
                  > Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as
                  > you have strongly advocated. I believe many here will appreciate the
                  > information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You
                  > Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to
                  > Ask".
                  > We at AWS know who to ask. Thank you, Bill...please keep posting. And
                  > Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.
                  > I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject
                  > heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives.
                  >
                  > Susan English, Central Wisconsin
                  > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here is a site to examine.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-f\
                  > ishweir.html
                  > >
                  > > Hope your health is getting better.
                  > >
                  > > ted
                  > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Ted,
                  > > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
                  > > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
                  > > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
                  > > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
                  > > > from various documents.
                  > > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
                  > > > interested in my interests.
                  > > > Bill Frazier
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Susan
                  William, Bill and others might have more insight on this, but as to which US state has the most ancient fish weirs, I do not know how one would make an
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 27, 2013
                    William,

                    Bill and others might have more insight on this, but as to which US state has the most ancient fish weirs, I do not know how one would make an accurate count over the span of millinnea these were used.   There seems to have been so little information on the subject...as in this research thesis on ancient fish weirs twenty years ago stating little archaelogical data, research studies had been done up to that point.  http://www.lutins.org/thesis/#1.1

                    I would suspect means and styles used for seawater fish processing (cod, as your  research on the Newport tower states) in early historic times differed from freshwater stream/lake/river weirs used  in ancient times.   That the latter were used prolifically far back--millinnea ago--within the Americas.  And , as  with ancient earthworks, artifacts, human remains.... countless numbers irretrievably, immeasurably long gone.  Hence the importance of preservationist efdorts and current studies on the subject.
                    Thank you.

                    --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, william smith wrote:
                    >
                    > Susan
                    >   It is interesting you find interest in ancient fish traps. Especially ones made using stones. In my research of the Newport Tower in R.I. I found its most practical use was to process fish. Their are more ancient fish traps in R.I than all of the other states combined. These stone structures still exist on the sea coast as well as in small streams. Many propose this was a process used by native Americans, however study shows it was a common process for fisherman from Europe.
                    > William
                    > --- On Wed, 6/26/13, Susan beldingenglish@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Susan beldingenglish@...
                    > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Ted Sojka, Bill Frazier, Ancient Fish Traps
                    > To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013, 9:05 PM
                    >
                    > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/people/PDF-OCT-2009.pdf
                    >
                    > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ted,
                    > > I am glad you posted the note from Bill Frazier, and, according to this
                    > > beautiful article from People of One Fire, Bill is "considered by
                    > > archaelogists and historians to be the nation's leading expert of the
                    > > fish traps of the Eastern United States".
                    > > I personally have become interested in ancient fish traps. In fact, soon
                    > > after you joined, Bill, I met with former AWS member and Aztalan
                    > > webmaster, Steve Steigerwald at the Aztalan Mounds (east of Madison,
                    > > WI). On the wall of the museum was a photo of very old fish weir, which
                    > > I'd not have recognized had you not joined our group.
                    > > Preservation of these rare remaining ancient fish traps is crucial, as
                    > > you have strongly advocated. I believe many here will appreciate the
                    > > information and research within this excellent article, "Everything You
                    > > Wanted to Know About Native American Fish Traps, But Didn't Know Whom to
                    > > Ask".
                    > > We at AWS know who to ask. Thank you, Bill...please keep posting. And
                    > > Ted...for again sharing your magnificent drawings.
                    > > I hope you don't mind my adding "Ancient Fish Traps" to the subject
                    > > heading for easier retrieval into the AWS archives.
                    > >
                    > > Susan English, Central Wisconsin
                    > > --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Here is a site to examine.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > http://wakinguponturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/09/stylized-drawing-of-f\
                    > > ishweir.html
                    > > >
                    > > > Hope your health is getting better.
                    > > >
                    > > > ted
                    > > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Bill Frazier wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Ted,
                    > > > > Always enjoy good art and especially that dealing with my
                    > > > > favorite subject "riverine cultural resources". Tho an avocational,
                    > > > > I have researched & documented over 150 fish trap dams or their
                    > > > > cultural remains in the State of Georgia. The most of these came
                    > > > > from various documents.
                    > > > > The membership of the Ancient Waterways Society may not be
                    > > > > interested in my interests.
                    > > > > Bill Frazier
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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