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Point Loma

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  • Ted Sojka
    Dear Cal, I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on the Pacific side of that military cemetery. It is a beautiful view with or with
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 26, 2009
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      Dear Cal,

      I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on
      the Pacific side of that military cemetery. It is a beautiful view
      with or with the whales. I wonder what they grew out on that Sandy
      island called Coronado when it was subdivided. My Navy pilot father
      met my Navy nurse mother at the Coronado, and I visited the place with
      Dad years ago to hear the story of how he met Mom. In those days of
      WW 2 there were photographers at all the clubs, and dad actually had a
      photo of their first date with two other couples. Two of the couples
      were married for over 50 years, and he could not remember the names of
      the third pair.

      I was also impressed with how much effort the local history is valued
      out at the National Park at the tip of that point around the light
      house. I found out that all parks in the country only get to keep
      about a dime of every dollar collected and that special parks with
      visitation get a bonus. That explains all those people dressed as
      lighthouse keepers and Coronado sailors as well as Native Americans at
      that park and all the film and presentation history that was told by
      the actors and musicians hired to work at Point Loma.

      I wished I had met Professor Fell back in the day and wish I knew if
      the patio with the footprints in the clay brick are still there? What
      an illustration! I remember being near Hadley, Massachusetts as a
      child, going for a swim in that river near my grandmother's town, and
      seeing dinosaur footprints which were all over the flat. rocky
      bottom. It was an indelible lesson in natural history despite the
      Peabody Museum having collected most of the big footprints in year's
      past.

      My computer illustrating son is now animating the digs of the last
      hundred years of the cave where Java man was found. The digs from
      many years are being done for the present archeologist who is at Iowa
      State University. My son said you can fly through the layers of each
      dig, see the artifacts in situ, and move about in this 3 D world. I
      think my interest in archeology passed on to this offspring. All of
      our family vacations for years involved moving up and down the
      Mississippi River and others, looking at ancient mounds of the
      original people, some large, and some lonesome by themselves, all
      built with amazing geometry and planning, some lined up with celestial
      calendars that were based on the 86 or so years in a Lunar cycle. A
      long time to watch the sky to get the bearing of the heavens and the
      Earth.

      I am glad you took Susan's advice and posted. Do you have any other
      recollections of Barry Fell?

      Ted Sojka
      Art Educators of Iowa
      Native Earthworks Preservation
    • TRAYLOROO
       Do you have any other recollections of Barry Fell? Ted Sojka   ===================================   Ted:   My Grandfather as a young single man lived in
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 26, 2009
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         Do you have any other recollections of Barry Fell?

        Ted Sojka

          ===================================
         
        Ted:
         
        My Grandfather as a young single man lived in a rooming house, San Diego, and spoke about the survety crew rowed to Coronato Island each day.  The fields were grain. He returned to the Texas Panhandle and joined his brother ... in the grain business; like huge silos near the railraod where they shipped car loads of grain.
         
         As for Fell, my impression of his personality was a person very caring, no ego, nature lover. His death left a vacuum, few people had the knowledge and intuitive skills he seemed posessed. He was a pioneer, and pioneering often is not efficient.  Some people today unfairly toast or roast him. But, I feel most of those roasters have no license, no superior skills.  It would be easy to find his address at a local reference library using old phone books, or city directory. 
         
        He twice, maybe thrice ... visited the Los Lunas Stone. (West of Los Lunas, NM, 14 miles.)  Unfortunately, the good Boy Scouts had scoured the stone to make it shine ... and of course altered the patina.  Thee are several other such stones in America. One State archaeologist dericed Fell's work on that stone, saying some hobo dropped off the train near there and ethed that in an idle few moments.  HO HO HO ... Say I.  Did you ever try etching like that on a stone? In an archaeic language?  I tried several times to find that stone, no luck.  One of my friends who was a Ph.D of Speech ... he lacked the language skills to guide me there.
         
        Since then, most of that ranch was sold to the Indians, and the archaeologists were mortified, for they had severl long-term projects in that area, including the nearby mountain WSW of the Stone.  However, we later learned the Stone and some of the other areas of interest were not in the sale.
         
         Cal
         
        My spell and typing checker insists there are no errors ... Hmmmmmm
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
      • yacrispyubetcha@yahoo.com
          Ted, Cal, all As soon as those doggy-prints in the bricks were mentioned, i know exactly why Barry Fell kept them in his patio. Similar marks were left by
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 29, 2009
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          Ted, Cal, all
          As soon as those doggy-prints in the bricks were mentioned, i know exactly why Barry Fell kept them in his patio. Similar marks were left by dogs, kids and stray insects on the bricks he was studying from Comalcalco, Mexico. That was not all that was pressed into the clay, as there were distinctly intentional marks also placed on the bricks before firing.
           
          I have the whole ESOP article scanned to .jpg somewhere. I'll go find the folder if i get encouragement and post it, but it runs to quite a few pages. Since Yahoo, here, only lets me attach 5 at a time, it might take up 3 or 4 posts. Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum? This is a land-based topic, pyramid building, but ya had to sail the Atlantic to bring the technology to the Maya. See, the natives built in stone. Copan for example.
           
          The highland Maya had rock at their disposal to use. The lowland, costal Comalcalcans did not. For lack of Magnificent Material to make structure, the eastern Mexicans languished in their ability to 'rise to preferred station'. Until the refugees from the Mediterranean pogrom of the Roman Empire made it to Mexico. They showed the natives how to use their strongest asset... clay... to their ultimate benefit.

          >   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ehgvAzHrNA   <

           

          Specifically, note the bas-relief carved on specially imported stones at the beginning of the film... 16 seconds to be exact. Put the vid on pause and move the progression button on the 'slider' to :16.  Two figures are talking. One on the right has a distinctly Olmec-y/Mayan headdress on. The one on the left is from a totally different culture. The carving itself is not in Mayan style, but Mediterranean! As if an immigrant carver had been hired to create something for a Mayan commissioner.

           

          At second 23 on the vid ( :23) pause it again. A broken off figurine of a Crocodile God... as in n.African Sobek? See it there, holding up the corner of a stylized, "bricked temple" platform. The Power of Sobek (the magic of Earth plus Water, Fire plus Air creating human-made stone! material of the Grandfathers! Brought to the Maya by a swimming creature-god from afar...) upholds the temple's very foundations.

           

          If an invasive force took Comalcalco (as it eventually did happen) it would be the most natural thing to bring down one's warclub on the delicately carved snout of the Crocodile, breaking it off and smashing the magic of the enemy.

           

          At 1:28 it shows the Comalcalco brick's make-up recipie. The next image is one of a lizard perched on an example of the bricks dimensions. Exactly that of Roman Brick... If one were to actually, open mindedly compare the two!

          >   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_brick   <

           

          The bulk of Comalcalco is created with the stuff, as shown in the video.

           

          Barry Fell was completely engrossed with the Comalcalco observations of undeniable epigraphy comparisons between the marks on the Mexican brick and the time-coincidal expansion of the Roman Empire. Until his end, he considered his advances at Comalcalco to be one of the primal examples of his whole research career. So it was with a nod to the ancestors, there in Mexico, that he retained the doggy-marked bricks as a reflection on brickmakers and their drying yards all over the world.

           

          In the Wiki article, it says the Romans brought their masnory techniques to the countries they conquered. It would seem that 'conquering' was not necessary to pass on a brilliant Idea. Archaeology shows that the Mediterranean immigrants were neither slaves nor totally free-men, but more like endentured servants and technicians of respected skills, working their way to a debt-free status, eventually.

           

          There were signs of both Muslim and Christian conclaves at pre-colon Comalcalco... but of course you won't find that advertised by the tourist brochures. That would blow the allure and 'draw' of a romantic, purely Native presentation that has been cultivated along mainstream lines. Personally, i find it far more exciting to think that humans were communicating and co-exsisting at such complex yet peaceful levels, while the era lasted.

           

          My enthusiasm only echoes Fell's passion and dedication to revealing the Truth, if only a few ears would hear and believe. It falls to our generation to carry out his revelations. He may have made some proceedural mis-steps in his own processes. But Barry was, at the core, gloriously Right in the direction he was hoping to steer human awareness. What more can a person expect from a great pioneer?

           

          -chris

           



          --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...> wrote:

          From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
          Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Point Loma
          To: "trayloroo" <trayloroo@...>
          Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 6:27 PM

          Dear Cal,

          I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on 
          the Pacific side of that military cemetery.   It is a beautiful view 
          with or with the whales.   I wonder what they grew out on that Sandy 
          island called Coronado when it was subdivided.  My Navy pilot father 
          met my Navy nurse mother at the Coronado, and I visited the place with 
          Dad years ago to hear the story of how he met Mom.   In those days of 
          WW 2 there were photographers at all the clubs, and dad actually had a 
          photo of their first date with two other couples.   Two of the couples 
          were married for over 50 years, and he could not remember the names of 
          the third pair.

          I was also impressed with how much effort the local history is valued 
          out at the National Park at the tip of that point around the light 
          house.   I found out that all parks in the country only get to keep 
          about a dime of every dollar collected and that special parks with 
          visitation get a bonus.  That explains all those people dressed as 
          lighthouse keepers and Coronado sailors as well as Native Americans at 
          that park and all the film and presentation history that was told by 
          the actors and musicians hired to work at Point Loma.

          I wished I had met Professor Fell back in the day and wish I knew if 
          the patio with the footprints in the clay brick are still there?  What 
          an illustration!    I remember being near Hadley, Massachusetts  as a 
          child, going for a swim in that river near my grandmother's town,  and 
          seeing dinosaur footprints which were all over the flat. rocky 
          bottom.   It was an indelible lesson in natural history despite the 
          Peabody Museum having collected most of the big footprints in year's 
          past.

          My computer illustrating son is now animating the digs of the last 
          hundred years of the cave where Java man was found.    The digs from 
          many years are being done for the present archeologist who is at Iowa 
          State University.   My son said you can fly through the layers of each 
          dig, see the artifacts in situ, and move about in this 3 D world.   I 
          think my interest in archeology passed on to this offspring.  All of 
          our family vacations for years involved moving up and down the 
          Mississippi River and others, looking at ancient mounds of the 
          original people, some large, and some lonesome by themselves, all 
          built with amazing geometry and planning, some lined up with celestial 
          calendars that were based on the 86 or so years in a Lunar cycle.   A 
          long time to watch the sky to get the bearing of the heavens and the 
          Earth.

          I am glad you took Susan's advice and posted.  Do you have any other 
          recollections of Barry Fell?

          Ted Sojka
          Art Educators of Iowa
          Native Earthworks Preservation






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        • Martin Carriere
          The possibility of the pre-Mayan families building pyramids for over 18,000 years and more and teaching the masons in Africa and parts east about the beauty
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 29, 2009
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            The possibility of the pre-Mayan families building pyramids for over 18,000 years and more and teaching the masons in Africa and parts east about the beauty of pyramids is also a viable theory. Cross Atlantic travel and stories match to the culture hero of the pre-mayans and later as always leaving the birthplace of human evolution and spreading the new culture to the whole globe - which is also more in line with the emergence of cro-magnan and the disappearance of neanderthal after the cross breeding revolution of families crossing the land bridges to populate the old world from the new.
             
            Best to you all,
             
            Love and friendship,
             
            Martin Carriere

            --- On Wed, 4/29/09, yacrispyubetcha@... <yacrispyubetcha@...> wrote:
            From: yacrispyubetcha@... <yacrispyubetcha@...>
            Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] Point Loma
            To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:45 PM

             

            At 1:28 it shows the Comalcalco brick's make-up recipie. The next image is one of a lizard perched on an example of the bricks dimensions. Exactly that of Roman Brick... If one were to actually, open mindedly compare the two!

            >   http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Roman_brick   <

             

            The bulk of Comalcalco is created with the stuff, as shown in the video.

             

            Barry Fell was completely engrossed with the Comalcalco observations of undeniable epigraphy comparisons between the marks on the Mexican brick and the time-coincidal expansion of the Roman Empire. Until his end, he considered his advances at Comalcalco to be one of the primal examples of his whole research career. So it was with a nod to the ancestors, there in Mexico, that he retained the doggy-marked bricks as a reflection on brickmakers and their drying yards all over the world.

             

            In the Wiki article, it says the Romans brought their masnory techniques to the countries they conquered. It would seem that 'conquering' was not necessary to pass on a brilliant Idea. Archaeology shows that the Mediterranean immigrants were neither slaves nor totally free-men, but more like endentured servants and technicians of respected skills, working their way to a debt-free status, eventually.

             

            There were signs of both Muslim and Christian conclaves at pre-colon Comalcalco.. . but of course you won't find that advertised by the tourist brochures. That would blow the allure and 'draw' of a romantic, purely Native presentation that has been cultivated along mainstream lines. Personally, i find it far more exciting to think that humans were communicating and co-exsisting at such complex yet peaceful levels, while the era lasted.

             

            My enthusiasm only echoes Fell's passion and dedication to revealing the Truth, if only a few ears would hear and believe. It falls to our generation to carry out his revelations. He may have made some proceedural mis-steps in his own processes. But Barry was, at the core, gloriously Right in the direction he was hoping to steer human awareness. What more can a person expect from a great pioneer?

             

            -chris

             



            --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Ted Sojka <tedsojka@mchsi. com> wrote:

            From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@mchsi. com>
            Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Point Loma
            To: "trayloroo" <trayloroo@yahoo. com>
            Cc: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 6:27 PM

            Dear Cal,

            I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on 
            the Pacific side of that military cemetery.   It is a beautiful view 
            with or with the whales.   I wonder what they grew out on that Sandy 
            island called Coronado when it was subdivided.  My Navy pilot father 
            met my Navy nurse mother at the Coronado, and I visited the place with 
            Dad years ago to hear the story of how he met Mom.   In those days of 
            WW 2 there were photographers at all the clubs, and dad actually had a 
            photo of their first date with two other couples.   Two of the couples 
            were married for over 50 years, and he could not remember the names of 
            the third pair.

            I was also impressed with how much effort the local history is valued 
            out at the National Park at the tip of that point around the light 
            house.   I found out that all parks in the country only get to keep 
            about a dime of every dollar collected and that special parks with 
            visitation get a bonus.  That explains all those people dressed as 
            lighthouse keepers and Coronado sailors as well as Native Americans at 
            that park and all the film and presentation history that was told by 
            the actors and musicians hired to work at Point Loma.

            I wished I had met Professor Fell back in the day and wish I knew if 
            the patio with the footprints in the clay brick are still there?  What 
            an illustration!    I remember being near Hadley, Massachusetts  as a 
            child, going for a swim in that river near my grandmother' s town,  and 
            seeing dinosaur footprints which were all over the flat. rocky 
            bottom.   It was an indelible lesson in natural history despite the 
            Peabody Museum having collected most of the big footprints in year's 
            past.

            My computer illustrating son is now animating the digs of the last 
            hundred years of the cave where Java man was found.    The digs from 
            many years are being done for the present archeologist who is at Iowa 
            State University.   My son said you can fly through the layers of each 
            dig, see the artifacts in situ, and move about in this 3 D world.   I 
            think my interest in archeology passed on to this offspring.  All of 
            our family vacations for years involved moving up and down the 
            Mississippi River and others, looking at ancient mounds of the 
            original people, some large, and some lonesome by themselves, all 
            built with amazing geometry and planning, some lined up with celestial 
            calendars that were based on the 86 or so years in a Lunar cycle.   A 
            long time to watch the sky to get the bearing of the heavens and the 
            Earth.

            I am glad you took Susan's advice and posted.  Do you have any other 
            recollections of Barry Fell?

            Ted Sojka
            Art Educators of Iowa
            Native Earthworks Preservation






            ------------ --------- --------- ------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ancient_ waterways_ society/

            <*> Your email settings:
                Individual Email | Traditional

            <*> To change settings online go to:
                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ancient_ waterways_ society/join
                (Yahoo! ID required)

            <*> To change settings via email:
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                mailto:ancient_waterways_ society-fullfeat ured@yahoogroups .com

            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                ancient_waterways_ society-unsubscr ibe@yahoogroups. com

            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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            Ted, Cal, all
            As soon as those doggy-prints in the bricks were mentioned, i know exactly why Barry Fell kept them in his patio. Similar marks were left by dogs, kids and stray insects on the bricks he was studying from Comalcalco, Mexico. That was not all that was pressed into the clay, as there were distinctly intentional marks also placed on the bricks before firing.
             
            I have the whole ESOP article scanned to .jpg somewhere. I'll go find the folder if i get encouragement and post it, but it runs to quite a few pages. Since Yahoo, here, only lets me attach 5 at a time, it might take up 3 or 4 posts. Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum? This is a land-based topic, pyramid building, but ya had to sail the Atlantic to bring the technology to the Maya. See, the natives built in stone. Copan for example.
             
            The highland Maya had rock at their disposal to use. The lowland, costal Comalcalcans did not. For lack of Magnificent Material to make structure, the eastern Mexicans languished in their ability to 'rise to preferred station'. Until the refugees from the Mediterranean pogrom of the Roman Empire made it to Mexico. They showed the natives how to use their strongest asset... clay... to their ultimate benefit.

            >   http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=3ehgvAzHrNA   <

             

            Specifically, note the bas-relief carved on specially imported stones at the beginning of the film... 16 seconds to be exact. Put the vid on pause and move the progression button on the 'slider' to :16.  Two figures are talking. One on the right has a distinctly Olmec-y/Mayan headdress on. The one on the left is from a totally different culture. The carving itself is not in Mayan style, but Mediterranean! As if an immigrant carver had been hired to create something for a Mayan commissioner.

             

            At second 23 on the vid ( :23) pause it again. A broken off figurine of a Crocodile God... as in n.African Sobek? See it there, holding up the corner of a stylized, "bricked temple" platform. The Power of Sobek (the magic of Earth plus Water, Fire plus Air creating human-made stone! material of the Grandfathers! Brought to the Maya by a swimming creature-god from afar...) upholds the temple's very foundations.

             

            If an invasive force took Comalcalco (as it eventually did happen) it would be the most natural thing to bring down one's warclub on the delicately carved snout of the Crocodile, breaking it off and smashing the magic of the enemy.




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          • Susan
            Chris, Am in the middle of a string of nursing night shifts out of town and working farm labor on my hands and knees at a CSA.... but agree with Martin in
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 30, 2009
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              Chris,

              Am in the middle of a string of nursing night shifts out of town and working farm labor on my hands and knees at a CSA.... but agree with Martin in finding the posts at this site brilliant, insightful,  and stimulating.  Thank you to so many for taking time to share links and your own skillful work each of you has obviously developed through the years. Re:

              Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum?

              Chris, Vince is also a co-host here, and in lieu of the file and YahooGroup link he sent yesterday to this group that I'd not seen before, he might know better than I who still taking beginning computer classes about files, space, accessing, etc.

              As far as appropriateness, I've not seen anything you or anyone here has sent that hasn't fit very well for a diverse group as ours which relates to historic or ancient navigation, diffusion, related academic sciences pertaining to global waterways,  stone sites, earthworks.  When Ancient Earthworks Society was discontinued a few months ago we invited members of that group into our midsts.    Earthworks, stoneworks, waterways without question are part of the more wholistic science in reexamining the ancient past, as is epigraphic material, as is becoming more frequent the past week.  I am not versed at all on the subject so won't dare to even comment on the subject, nor will I need to, thanks to some of you bringing your experience forward.

              Chris, I'd suggest talking with Vince, Stan or discussing further at this site with others how to enter it into this group by way of Files, Links,  and/or Subject titles of cascading posts in order to be easily accessible and retrievable.  As with so many brilliant posts and insights via Messages to this group, I hate to anything enduring or evolving ideas become obscure or lost in the Archives here.   Or other places/sites  some of this material could even better evolve. 

              Suz
              --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, yacrispyubetcha@... wrote:
                
              > Ted, Cal, all
              > As soon as those doggy-prints in the bricks were mentioned, i know exactly why Barry Fell kept them in his patio. Similar marks were left by dogs, kids and stray insects on the bricks he was studying from Comalcalco, Mexico. That was not all that was pressed into the clay, as there were distinctly intentional marks also placed on the bricks before firing.
              > http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf099/sf099a01.htm
              >  
              > I have the whole ESOP article scanned to .jpg somewhere. I'll go find the folder if i get encouragement and post it, but it runs to quite a few pages. Since Yahoo, here, only lets me attach 5 at a time, it might take up 3 or 4 posts. Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum? This is a land-based topic, pyramid building, but ya had to sail the Atlantic to bring the technology to the Maya. See, the natives built in stone. Copan for example.
              > >   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD1_165VxO0&feature=related   <
              >  
              > The highland Maya had rock at their disposal to use. The lowland, costal Comalcalcans did not. For lack of Magnificent Material to make structure, the eastern Mexicans languished in their ability to 'rise to preferred station'. Until the refugees from the Mediterranean pogrom of the Roman Empire made it to Mexico. They showed the natives how to use their strongest asset... clay... to their ultimate benefit.
              > >   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ehgvAzHrNA   <
              >  
              > Specifically, note the bas-relief carved on specially imported stones at the beginning of the film... 16 seconds to be exact. Put the vid on pause and move the progression button on the 'slider' to :16.  Two figures are talking. One on the right has a distinctly Olmec-y/Mayan headdress on. The one on the left is from a totally different culture. The carving itself is not in Mayan style, but Mediterranean! As if an immigrant carver had been hired to create something for a Mayan commissioner.
              >  
              > At second 23 on the vid ( :23) pause it again. A broken off figurine of a Crocodile God... as in n.African Sobek? See it there, holding up the corner of a stylized, "bricked temple" platform. The Power of Sobek (the magic of Earth plus Water, Fire plus Air creating human-made stone! material of the Grandfathers! Brought to the Maya by a swimming creature-god from afar...) upholds the temple's very foundations.
              >  
              > If an invasive force took Comalcalco (as it eventually did happen) it would be the most natural thing to bring down one's warclub on the delicately carved snout of the Crocodile, breaking it off and smashing the magic of the enemy.
              >  
              > At 1:28 it shows the Comalcalco brick's make-up recipie. The next image is one of a lizard perched on an example of the bricks dimensions. Exactly that of Roman Brick... If one were to actually, open mindedly compare the two!
              > >   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_brick   <
              >  
              > The bulk of Comalcalco is created with the stuff, as shown in the video.
              >  
              > Barry Fell was completely engrossed with the Comalcalco observations of undeniable epigraphy comparisons between the marks on the Mexican brick and the time-coincidal expansion of the Roman Empire. Until his end, he considered his advances at Comalcalco to be one of the primal examples of his whole research career. So it was with a nod to the ancestors, there in Mexico, that he retained the doggy-marked bricks as a reflection on brickmakers and their drying yards all over the world.
              >  
              > In the Wiki article, it says the Romans brought their masnory techniques to the countries they conquered. It would seem that 'conquering' was not necessary to pass on a brilliant Idea. Archaeology shows that the Mediterranean immigrants were neither slaves nor totally free-men, but more like endentured servants and technicians of respected skills, working their way to a debt-free status, eventually.
              >  
              > There were signs of both Muslim and Christian conclaves at pre-colon Comalcalco... but of course you won't find that advertised by the tourist brochures. That would blow the allure and 'draw' of a romantic, purely Native presentation that has been cultivated along mainstream lines. Personally, i find it far more exciting to think that humans were communicating and co-exsisting at such complex yet peaceful levels, while the era lasted.
              >  
              > My enthusiasm only echoes Fell's passion and dedication to revealing the Truth, if only a few ears would hear and believe. It falls to our generation to carry out his revelations. He may have made some proceedural mis-steps in his own processes. But Barry was, at the core, gloriously Right in the direction he was hoping to steer human awareness. What more can a person expect from a great pioneer?
              >  
              > -chris
              >  
              >
              >
              > --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Ted Sojka tedsojka@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@...
              > Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Point Loma
              > To: "trayloroo" trayloroo@...
              > Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 6:27 PM
              >
              >
              > Dear Cal,
              >
              > I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on 
              > the Pacific side of that military cemetery.   It is a beautiful view 
              > with or with the whales.   I wonder what they grew out on that Sandy 
              > island called Coronado when it was subdivided.  My Navy pilot father 
              > met my Navy nurse mother at the Coronado, and I visited the place with 
              > Dad years ago to hear the story of how he met Mom.   In those days of 
              > WW 2 there were photographers at all the clubs, and dad actually had a 
              > photo of their first date with two other couples.   Two of the couples 
              > were married for over 50 years, and he could not remember the names of 
              > the third pair.
              >
              > I was also impressed with how much effort the local history is valued 
              > out at the National Park at the tip of that point around the light 
              > house.   I found out that all parks in the country only get to keep 
              > about a dime of every dollar collected and that special parks with 
              > visitation get a bonus.  That explains all those people dressed as 
              > lighthouse keepers and Coronado sailors as well as Native Americans at 
              > that park and all the film and presentation history that was told by 
              > the actors and musicians hired to work at Point Loma.
              >
              > I wished I had met Professor Fell back in the day and wish I knew if 
              > the patio with the footprints in the clay brick are still there?  What 
              > an illustration!    I remember being near Hadley, Massachusetts  as a 
              > child, going for a swim in that river near my grandmother's town,  and 
              > seeing dinosaur footprints which were all over the flat. rocky 
              > bottom.   It was an indelible lesson in natural history despite the 
              > Peabody Museum having collected most of the big footprints in year's 
              > past.
              >
              > My computer illustrating son is now animating the digs of the last 
              > hundred years of the cave where Java man was found.    The digs from 
              > many years are being done for the present archeologist who is at Iowa 
              > State University.   My son said you can fly through the layers of each 
              > dig, see the artifacts in situ, and move about in this 3 D world.   I 
              > think my interest in archeology passed on to this offspring.  All of 
              > our family vacations for years involved moving up and down the 
              > Mississippi River and others, looking at ancient mounds of the 
              > original people, some large, and some lonesome by themselves, all 
              > built with amazing geometry and planning, some lined up with celestial 
              > calendars that were based on the 86 or so years in a Lunar cycle.   A 
              > long time to watch the sky to get the bearing of the heavens and the 
              > Earth.
              >
              > I am glad you took Susan's advice and posted.  Do you have any other 
              > recollections of Barry Fell?
              >
              > Ted Sojka
              > Art Educators of Iowa
              > Native Earthworks Preservation
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >

            • TRAYLOROO
              To Quick Chris:   Below I see you quickly picked up the connection between the paw prints in Fell s patio ... and the marks on bricks in Camanche, Mexico. 
              Message 6 of 6 , May 1 6:36 AM
              • 0 Attachment

                To Quick Chris:
                 
                Below I see you quickly picked up the connection between the paw prints in Fell's patio ... and the marks on bricks in Camanche, Mexico.  Just minutes ago I emailed that same conclusion that came to my mind during the night. I should have read your email first.
                 
                 Thank you for your perception,
                 
                Cal
                 
                 Incidentally, I just checked book broker ABEBOOKS.COM and most of his books are listed as used, and in various conditions. Other such book brokers will have similar lists.  The list is impressive, but the many articles he published are not listed.  Someplace there probably is a complete list all he wrote. Enter in their Author's window BARRY FELL .... and you will get the same list I saw.  There are 138 books, but many same books are listed by different book dealers.
                 
                 

                ==================================
                From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
                Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: Point Loma
                To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 12:40 PM

                Chris,
                Am in the middle of a string of nursing night shifts out of town and working farm labor on my hands and knees at a CSA.... but agree with Martin in finding the posts at this site brilliant, insightful,  and stimulating.  Thank you to so many for taking time to share links and your own skillful work each of you has obviously developed through the years. Re:

                Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum?

                Chris, Vince is also a co-host here, and in lieu of the file and YahooGroup link he sent yesterday to this group that I'd not seen before, he might know better than I who still taking beginning computer classes about files, space, accessing, etc.

                As far as appropriateness, I've not seen anything you or anyone here has sent that hasn't fit very well for a diverse group as ours which relates to historic or ancient navigation, diffusion, related academic sciences pertaining to global waterways,  stone sites, earthworks.  When Ancient Earthworks Society was discontinued a few months ago we invited members of that group into our midsts.    Earthworks, stoneworks, waterways without question are part of the more wholistic science in reexamining the ancient past, as is epigraphic material, as is becoming more frequent the past week.  I am not versed at all on the subject so won't dare to even comment on the subject, nor will I need to, thanks to some of you bringing your experience forward.

                Chris, I'd suggest talking with Vince, Stan or discussing further at this site with others how to enter it into this group by way of Files, Links,  and/or Subject titles of cascading posts in order to be easily accessible and retrievable.  As with so many brilliant posts and insights via Messages to this group, I hate to anything enduring or evolving ideas become obscure or lost in the Archives here.   Or other places/sites  some of this material could even better evolve. 

                Suz
                --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, yacrispyubetcha@ ... wrote:
                  
                > Ted, Cal, all
                > As soon as those doggy-prints in the bricks were mentioned, i know exactly why Barry Fell kept them in his patio. Similar marks were left by dogs, kids and stray insects on the bricks he was studying from Comalcalco, Mexico. That was not all that was pressed into the clay, as there were distinctly intentional marks also placed on the bricks before firing.
                > http://www.science- frontiers. com/sf099/ sf099a01. htm
                >  
                > I have the whole ESOP article scanned to .jpg somewhere. I'll go find the folder if i get encouragement and post it, but it runs to quite a few pages. Since Yahoo, here, only lets me attach 5 at a time, it might take up 3 or 4 posts. Susan or Stan, should i create a folder at the main group website archives so to be viewable in one lump sum? This is a land-based topic, pyramid building, but ya had to sail the Atlantic to bring the technology to the Maya. See, the natives built in stone. Copan for example.
                > >   http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=AD1_165VxO0&feature=related   <
                >  
                > The highland Maya had rock at their disposal to use. The lowland, costal Comalcalcans did not. For lack of Magnificent Material to make structure, the eastern Mexicans languished in their ability to 'rise to preferred station'. Until the refugees from the Mediterranean pogrom of the Roman Empire made it to Mexico. They showed the natives how to use their strongest asset... clay... to their ultimate benefit.
                > >   http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=3ehgvAzHrNA   <
                >  
                > Specifically, note the bas-relief carved on specially imported stones at the beginning of the film... 16 seconds to be exact. Put the vid on pause and move the progression button on the 'slider' to :16.  Two figures are talking. One on the right has a distinctly Olmec-y/Mayan headdress on. The one on the left is from a totally different culture. The carving itself is not in Mayan style, but Mediterranean! As if an immigrant carver had been hired to create something for a Mayan commissioner.
                >  
                > At second 23 on the vid ( :23) pause it again. A broken off figurine of a Crocodile God... as in n.African Sobek? See it there, holding up the corner of a stylized, "bricked temple" platform. The Power of Sobek (the magic of Earth plus Water, Fire plus Air creating human-made stone! material of the Grandfathers! Brought to the Maya by a swimming creature-god from afar...) upholds the temple's very foundations.
                >  
                > If an invasive force took Comalcalco (as it eventually did happen) it would be the most natural thing to bring down one's warclub on the delicately carved snout of the Crocodile, breaking it off and smashing the magic of the enemy.
                >  
                > At 1:28 it shows the Comalcalco brick's make-up recipie. The next image is one of a lizard perched on an example of the bricks dimensions. Exactly that of Roman Brick... If one were to actually, open mindedly compare the two!
                > >   http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Roman_brick   <
                >  
                > The bulk of Comalcalco is created with the stuff, as shown in the video.
                >  
                > Barry Fell was completely engrossed with the Comalcalco observations of undeniable epigraphy comparisons between the marks on the Mexican brick and the time-coincidal expansion of the Roman Empire. Until his end, he considered his advances at Comalcalco to be one of the primal examples of his whole research career. So it was with a nod to the ancestors, there in Mexico, that he retained the doggy-marked bricks as a reflection on brickmakers and their drying yards all over the world.
                >  
                > In the Wiki article, it says the Romans brought their masnory techniques to the countries they conquered. It would seem that 'conquering' was not necessary to pass on a brilliant Idea. Archaeology shows that the Mediterranean immigrants were neither slaves nor totally free-men, but more like endentured servants and technicians of respected skills, working their way to a debt-free status, eventually.
                >  
                > There were signs of both Muslim and Christian conclaves at pre-colon Comalcalco.. . but of course you won't find that advertised by the tourist brochures. That would blow the allure and 'draw' of a romantic, purely Native presentation that has been cultivated along mainstream lines. Personally, i find it far more exciting to think that humans were communicating and co-exsisting at such complex yet peaceful levels, while the era lasted.
                >  
                > My enthusiasm only echoes Fell's passion and dedication to revealing the Truth, if only a few ears would hear and believe. It falls to our generation to carry out his revelations. He may have made some proceedural mis-steps in his own processes. But Barry was, at the core, gloriously Right in the direction he was hoping to steer human awareness. What more can a person expect from a great pioneer?
                >  
                > -chris
                >  
                >
                >
                > --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Ted Sojka tedsojka@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@...
                > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Point Loma
                > To: "trayloroo" trayloroo@.. .
                > Cc: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
                > Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 6:27 PM
                >
                >
                > Dear Cal,
                >
                > I was there a few times to visit my brother who is now buried up on 
                > the Pacific side of that military cemetery.   It is a beautiful view 
                > with or with the whales.   I wonder what they grew out on that Sandy 
                > island called Coronado when it was subdivided.  My Navy pilot father 
                > met my Navy nurse mother at the Coronado, and I visited the place with 
                > Dad years ago to hear the story of how he met Mom.   In those days of 
                > WW 2 there were photographers at all the clubs, and dad actually had a 
                > photo of their first date with two other couples.   Two of the couples 
                > were married for over 50 years, and he could not remember the names of 
                > the third pair.
                >
                > I was also impressed with how much effort the local history is valued 
                > out at the National Park at the tip of that point around the light 
                > house.   I found out that all parks in the country only get to keep 
                > about a dime of every dollar collected and that special parks with 
                > visitation get a bonus.  That explains all those people dressed as 
                > lighthouse keepers and Coronado sailors as well as Native Americans at 
                > that park and all the film and presentation history that was told by 
                > the actors and musicians hired to work at Point Loma.
                >
                > I wished I had met Professor Fell back in the day and wish I knew if 
                > the patio with the footprints in the clay brick are still there?  What 
                > an illustration!    I remember being near Hadley, Massachusetts  as a 
                > child, going for a swim in that river near my grandmother' s town,  and 
                > seeing dinosaur footprints which were all over the flat. rocky 
                > bottom.   It was an indelible lesson in natural history despite the 
                > Peabody Museum having collected most of the big footprints in year's 
                > past.
                >
                > My computer illustrating son is now animating the digs of the last 
                > hundred years of the cave where Java man was found.    The digs from 
                > many years are being done for the present archeologist who is at Iowa 
                > State University.   My son said you can fly through the layers of each 
                > dig, see the artifacts in situ, and move about in this 3 D world.   I 
                > think my interest in archeology passed on to this offspring.  All of 
                > our family vacations for years involved moving up and down the 
                > Mississippi River and others, looking at ancient mounds of the 
                > original people, some large, and some lonesome by themselves, all 
                > built with amazing geometry and planning, some lined up with celestial 
                > calendars that were based on the 86 or so years in a Lunar cycle.   A 
                > long time to watch the sky to get the bearing of the heavens and the 
                > Earth.
                >
                > I am glad you took Susan's advice and posted.  Do you have any other 
                > recollections of Barry Fell?
                >
                > Ted Sojka
                > Art Educators of Iowa
                > Native Earthworks Preservation
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >

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