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Have we gone too far?????

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  • Vernon Humphrey
     I agree political correctness has its place, I think we can all agree PC has a place in society no one wants to be called a derogatory name.  But when we
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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       I agree political correctness has its place, I think we can all agree PC has a place in society no one wants to be called a derogatory name.  But when we make holidays non-secular (e.g. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Gmar chatimah tovah, Habari Gani = Seasons Greetings) we are destroying a part of our heritage and history.  Is it really offensive?  Why must we prohibit each person from expressing their feelings and greetings in a way that is part of who they really are, just to be PC? 


       
      “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




      Vernon F. Humphrey
      706.329.7960
      29 Park Place
      Apt 304
      Hattiesburg, MS. 39402

    • Hunter, Debra
      I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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        I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to the drawing board.
         
        Deb Hunter
      • Vernon Humphrey
        The rubber band ball is a metaphor I have in my signature block just something I like.  I am glad you agreed about PC going too far.  I personally have
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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          The rubber band ball is a metaphor I have in my signature block just something I like.  I am glad you agreed about PC going too far.  I personally have never been offended by anyone offering a heartfelt greeting.  If we restrict secular greetings aren't we actually restricting freedom of speech? 
           
          “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




          Vernon F. Humphrey
          706.329.7960
          29 Park Place
          Apt 304
          Hattiesburg, MS. 39402



          From: "Hunter, Debra" <dhunter@...>
          To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 9:43:25 PM
          Subject: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

           

          I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to the drawing board.
           
          Deb Hunter

        • Shirvani, Sheida
          Vernon We need to be sure if you wishing a happy Christmas then turn around and wish Happy Eide, Happy Honokaa etc. It seems to me if we generalize and say
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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            Vernon

             

            We need to be sure if you wishing a happy Christmas then turn around and wish Happy Eide, Happy Honokaa etc.  It seems to me if we generalize and say happy holiday! We include everyone and not exclude anyone either. 

            Although it does not bother me to hear someone tells me happy Christmas although I do not celebrate Christmas.   I have to say in large city with great diversity this might not effect anyone.  But in small towns with little diversity it really take toe on people that do not celebrate certain traditions.

            -Sheida

             

            From: americancomm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:americancomm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Humphrey
            Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:52 PM
            To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

             

             

            The rubber band ball is a metaphor I have in my signature block just something I like.  I am glad you agreed about PC going too far.  I personally have never been offended by anyone offering a heartfelt greeting.  If we restrict secular greetings aren't we actually restricting freedom of speech? 
             

            “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




            Vernon F. Humphrey
            706.329.7960
            29 Park Place
            Apt 304
            Hattiesburg, MS. 39402

             

             


            From: "Hunter, Debra" <dhunter@...>
            To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 9:43:25 PM
            Subject: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

             

            I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to the drawing board.

             

            Deb Hunter

             

          • Thomas Duncanson
            1. I think what conservatives dismiss as political correctness is often the advancement of conscientiousness. I would listen very closely to what people
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 27, 2010
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              1.  I think what conservatives dismiss as "political correctness" is often the advancement of conscientiousness.  I would listen very closely to what people are trying to tell you about what has materially excluded and injured them when they, too bluntly perhaps, complain about certain traditional symbolic practices and usages.  This should be the beginning of listening, not of symmetrical complaint that stops the learning between people in its self-satisfied tracks.
              2.  It has always struck me as screamingly ironic that anyone who has been different or who has had disagreements with the powers that be, has for eons and still today to a remarkable extent (never appreciated in the "charmed loops" of the self-identified "majorities" and the institutional actors who are wounded about "political correctness") have been drastically constrained in their personal expression and symbolic practices-- that every day life is for most human beings a stultifying "correctness"-- political, religious, but mostly commercial-- that this has never much troubled the mandarins of social control.  Now, in one brief era religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities, women, the disabled, have taken relatively small voices to make a few claims on our consciences and language, and those who have benefited most from silencing others, complain bitterly about being silenced!   
              3.  I am always terrified at what those who claim to be silenced by "political correctness" are dying to say.
              4.  Vern, when you say someone has taken expressions such as , "Merry Christmas!" from you, I wonder what has really happened.  For one thing, have even 5% of us been given any instruction whatsoever in the matter?  Nobody has ever told me what to say concerning holiday greetings.  Public schools have gone through significant revisions in Christmas and Easter rituals since we were kids, because they are the crucible for this compound society.  But almost all the rest-- those who work in retail and other high "customer sensitive" jobs-- have been told what to say not because of "political correctness" but because of "commercial cowardice"-- the bottomless, brainless defensiveness of prudent corporate factotum unwilling to risk offending anyone they do not pecuniarily control.  It is extremely painful that THIS is one of the giant themes of what is actually wrong with our society, and instead of concentrating on this we are spending our moral capital looking sideways at Jews, and Unitarians, and Muslems, and secular-liberals, and feminists who have "taken" (stolen!) something from us.  This is wrong; this is creepy.  I think all this "taken from me"-- me, the owner, the proprietor, of USA, Inc.-- needs to be reversed.  Nothing has been taken from you; something precious has been given to you-- an opportunity to rethink, to consider consequences, to meet someone different.  It is a beautiful thing, and very little is lost in the meeting except for our shabby worn innocence and our often fatal errors.

              Merry Christmas!

              Tom

              Tom Duncanson
              Millikin University  

              >>> "Shirvani, Sheida" 11/27/10 10:00 PM >>>
               

              Vernon

               

              We need to be sure if you wishing a happy Christmas then turn around and wish Happy Eide, Happy Honokaa etc.  It seems to me if we generalize and say happy holiday! We include everyone and not exclude anyone either. 

              Although it does not bother me to hear someone tells me happy Christmas although I do not celebrate Christmas.   I have to say in large city with great diversity this might not effect anyone.  But in small towns with little diversity it really take toe on people that do not celebrate certain traditions.

              -Sheida

               

              From: americancomm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:americancomm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Humphrey
              Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:52 PM
              To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

               

               

              The rubber band ball is a metaphor I have in my signature block just something I like.  I am glad you agreed about PC going too far.  I personally have never been offended by anyone offering a heartfelt greeting.  If we restrict secular greetings aren't we actually restricting freedom of speech? 
               

              “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




              Vernon F. Humphrey
              706.329.7960
              29 Park Place
              Apt 304
              Hattiesburg, MS. 39402

               

               


              From: "Hunter, Debra" <dhunter@...>
              To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 9:43:25 PM
              Subject: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

               

              I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to the drawing board.

               

              Deb Hunter

               




              CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message along with any included attachments may contain information that is confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee,) you may not use, copy, or disclose to anyone any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and immediately delete the message and any attachments. Thank you for your cooperation.
            • k rusch
              Killer post from Tom! For many years now, I have opted out of participating in the religious *and* commercial elements of this season, and (for those who
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 28, 2010
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                Killer post from Tom! 

                For many years now, I have opted out of participating in the religious *and* commercial elements of this season, and (for those who haven't tried), it's harder than you think. Avoiding the religious imperatives (any of them) is relatively easy nowadays--that's a "personal" decision that people understand. But avoiding the commercial imperatives is a constant struggle in every social setting, including work. An entire year of being a team player, supporting colleagues with their assignments, working evenings and weekends so the team can get credit for meeting deadlines, and the like, can be erased in an instant by saying you don't want to be a Secret Santa. Suddenly, you're self-centered and anti-social. 

                Regarding the training some employees get on how to speak to customers, let's remember that it's not limited to the holiday season. My sister-in-law, for example, once worked for a national restaurant chain, and had to repeat three lines of greeting *exactly* as written to every party that entered the restaurant. She wasn't even allowed to address with one utterance several parties who entered the restaurant at the same time. She had to repeat the same phrase for every party, even though they just heard her saying it to someone else. She wasn't even allowed to vary the phrases so that it seemed genuine and spontaneous. I've never heard any one complain that this widespread practice is a restriction of freedom of speech. 

                -k



                On Nov 28, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Thomas Duncanson wrote:

                 

                1.  I think what conservatives dismiss as "political correctness" is often the advancement of conscientiousness.  I would listen very closely to what people are trying to tell you about what has materially excluded and injured them when they, too bluntly perhaps, complain about certain traditional symbolic practices and usages.  This should be the beginning of listening, not of symmetrical complaint that stops the learning between people in its self-satisfied tracks.
                2.  It has always struck me as screamingly ironic that anyone who has been different or who has had disagreements with the powers that be, has for eons and still today to a remarkable extent (never appreciated in the "charmed loops" of the self-identified "majorities" and the institutional actors who are wounded about "political correctness") have been drastically constrained in their personal expression and symbolic practices-- that every day life is for most human beings a stultifying "correctness"-- political, religious, but mostly commercial-- that this has never much troubled the mandarins of social control.  Now, in one brief era religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities, women, the disabled, have taken relatively small voices to make a few claims on our consciences and language, and those who have benefited most from silencing others, complain bitterly about being silenced!   
                3.  I am always terrified at what those who claim to be silenced by "political correctness" are dying to say.
                4.  Vern, when you say someone has taken expressions such as , "Merry Christmas!" from you, I wonder what has really happened.  For one thing, have even 5% of us been given any instruction whatsoever in the matter?  Nobody has ever told me what to say concerning holiday greetings.  Public schools have gone through significant revisions in Christmas and Easter rituals since we were kids, because they are the crucible for this compound society.  But almost all the rest-- those who work in retail and other high "customer sensitive" jobs-- have been told what to say not because of "political correctness" but because of "commercial cowardice"-- the bottomless, brainless defensiveness of prudent corporate factotum unwilling to risk offending anyone they do not pecuniarily control.  It is extremely painful that THIS is one of the giant themes of what is actually wrong with our society, and instead of concentrating on this we are spending our moral capital looking sideways at Jews, and Unitarians, and Muslems, and secular-liberals, and feminists who have "taken" (stolen!) something from us.  This is wrong; this is creepy.  I think all this "taken from me"-- me, the owner, the proprietor, of USA, Inc.-- needs to be reversed.  Nothing has been taken from you; something precious has been given to you-- an opportunity to rethink, to consider consequences, to meet someone different.  It is a beautiful thing, and very little is lost in the meeting except for our shabby worn innocence and our often fatal errors.

                Merry Christmas!

                Tom

                Tom Duncanson
                Millikin University  

                >>> "Shirvani, Sheida" 11/27/10 10:00 PM >>>
                 

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              • Vernon Humphrey
                commercial cowardice -- Thanks for the phrase I have been searching for.  I have children in retail, the irritation that people were being restricted in
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 28, 2010
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                  "commercial cowardice"-- Thanks for the phrase I have been searching for.  I have children in retail, the irritation that people were being restricted in their communication came from them and from the generic greetings I receive in stores.  I saw a sign a few years ago that said "Holiday Trees", can you imagine a menorah ever being advertised as a "Holiday Candle Holder"   
                   

                   
                  “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




                  Vernon F. Humphrey
                  706.329.7960
                  29 Park Place
                  Apt 304
                  Hattiesburg, MS. 39402



                  From: Thomas Duncanson <tduncanson@...>
                  To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 12:18:13 AM
                  Subject: RE: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

                   

                  1.  I think what conservatives dismiss as "political correctness" is often the advancement of conscientiousness.  I would listen very closely to what people are trying to tell you about what has materially excluded and injured them when they, too bluntly perhaps, complain about certain traditional symbolic practices and usages.  This should be the beginning of listening, not of symmetrical complaint that stops the learning between people in its self-satisfied tracks.
                  2.  It has always struck me as screamingly ironic that anyone who has been different or who has had disagreements with the powers that be, has for eons and still today to a remarkable extent (never appreciated in the "charmed loops" of the self-identified "majorities" and the institutional actors who are wounded about "political correctness") have been drastically constrained in their personal expression and symbolic practices-- that every day life is for most human beings a stultifying "correctness"-- political, religious, but mostly commercial-- that this has never much troubled the mandarins of social control.  Now, in one brief era religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities, women, the disabled, have taken relatively small voices to make a few claims on our consciences and language, and those who have benefited most from silencing others, complain bitterly about being silenced!   
                  3.  I am always terrified at what those who claim to be silenced by "political correctness" are dying to say.
                  4.  Vern, when you say someone has taken expressions such as , "Merry Christmas!" from you, I wonder what has really happened.  For one thing, have even 5% of us been given any instruction whatsoever in the matter?  Nobody has ever told me what to say concerning holiday greetings.  Public schools have gone through significant revisions in Christmas and Easter rituals since we were kids, because they are the crucible for this compound society.  But almost all the rest-- those who work in retail and other high "customer sensitive" jobs-- have been told what to say not because of "political correctness" but because of "commercial cowardice"-- the bottomless, brainless defensiveness of prudent corporate factotum unwilling to risk offending anyone they do not pecuniarily control.  It is extremely painful that THIS is one of the giant themes of what is actually wrong with our society, and instead of concentrating on this we are spending our moral capital looking sideways at Jews, and Unitarians, and Muslems, and secular-liberals, and feminists who have "taken" (stolen!) something from us.  This is wrong; this is creepy.  I think all this "taken from me"-- me, the owner, the proprietor, of USA, Inc.-- needs to be reversed.  Nothing has been taken from you; something precious has been given to you-- an opportunity to rethink, to consider consequences, to meet someone different.  It is a beautiful thing, and very little is lost in the meeting except for our shabby worn innocence and our often fatal errors.

                  Merry Christmas!

                  Tom

                  Tom Duncanson
                  Millikin University  

                  >>> "Shirvani, Sheida" 11/27/10 10:00 PM >>>
                   

                  Vernon

                   

                  We need to be sure if you wishing a happy Christmas then turn around and wish Happy Eide, Happy Honokaa etc.  It seems to me if we generalize and say happy holiday! We include everyone and not exclude anyone either. 

                  Although it does not bother me to hear someone tells me happy Christmas although I do not celebrate Christmas.   I have to say in large city with great diversity this might not effect anyone.  But in small towns with little diversity it really take toe on people that do not celebrate certain traditions.

                  -Sheida

                   

                  From: americancomm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:americancomm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Humphrey
                  Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:52 PM
                  To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

                   

                   

                  The rubber band ball is a metaphor I have in my signature block just something I like.  I am glad you agreed about PC going too far.  I personally have never been offended by anyone offering a heartfelt greeting.  If we restrict secular greetings aren't we actually restricting freedom of speech? 
                   

                  “Each of us is in essence like a rubber band ball. Culture is developed as if adding one rubber band after another. Some rubber bands are wide and comforting; some are thin, tight and painful, with a variety of sizes in-between adding to the construction. Each new rubber band changes the mass, density and dimension of the ball and how it will react to outside stimuli, just as the layers of culture change how we as humans react to situations.”




                  Vernon F. Humphrey
                  706.329.7960
                  29 Park Place
                  Apt 304
                  Hattiesburg, MS. 39402

                   

                   


                  From: "Hunter, Debra" <dhunter@...>
                  To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 9:43:25 PM
                  Subject: [americancomm] Re: Have we gone too far?????

                   

                  I am with you all the way in paragraph one but as for paragraph two, if the best we can do is compare humanity to a ball of rubber bands we need to get back to the drawing board.

                   

                  Deb Hunter

                   




                  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message along with any included attachments may contain information that is confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee,) you may not use, copy, or disclose to anyone any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and immediately delete the message and any attachments. Thank you for your cooperation.

                • k rusch
                  ... Now marketing a menorah as a holiday candle holder would take some real guts. ;-) But it s probably just a matter of time. I m sure the Pagans never
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 29, 2010
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                    On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Vernon Humphrey wrote:


                    > I saw a sign a few years ago that said "Holiday Trees", can you
                    > imagine a menorah ever being advertised as a "Holiday Candle Holder"

                    Now marketing a menorah as a holiday candle holder would take some
                    real guts. ;-) But it's probably just a matter of time. I'm sure the
                    Pagans never imagined that the co-option of their practice of
                    trimming trees would be so successful that, in time, people would
                    object to the tree being called anything but a "Christmas tree."
                    -kris
                    >
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