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454RE: [americancomm] to Myrene and list...

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  • Mark Fabiano
    May 1, 2006
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      My Com 105 and Comp 101 students are not prepared to
      understand how these notions (informative vs
      peruasive) can be similiar. They are learning the
      basics of academic standards for expressing their
      ideas, by utilizing research, and hopefully, with a
      little technique.

      After they are finished reporting or delivering
      informative based speeches and essays, I takethe
      liberty to explain the subtle (and it is subtler than
      direct advocacy) persuasion thta underlies information
      based assignments (the topic definition, sources and
      supporting ideas selections over others, etc.)

      But there is a huge difference in orientation between
      making a policy speech in which you take a particular
      stand and argue for a specific course of action, and
      even presenting the information enclosed in a
      policy..well there ought to be at least. Its up to us
      to advance the "equal" time rule -even if the modern
      media refuses to do so, and it is important to let
      students experience the task of information gathering
      an reporting with as little bias as possible or at
      least with that bias qualified in the context ( I show
      horses as a hobby and this is my speech on how to
      dothat)

      In a partiuclar setting that topic would be
      potentially debatable. But a COm 105 class is not that
      place. Unless its being taught in an ag school where
      everyone rides horses. THen the instructor neeeds to
      intervene and make it a persuasive assignment.

      I dont undertand the issue really. I mean why confuse
      these students, to what end? Deliver information 1.
      Arguea position 2.

      Now what is important to do that Idont see being done
      in the 4-5 school Iregularly teach at, is to debunk
      the "infotainment" industry. These shouldbe used as
      examples not of information sharing but as pure
      persuasion.

      Other areas for debunking (read making students aware
      of) false information only would be anything that
      comes out of FOX News shows like OReilly, who claims a
      no spin zone by using only spin.

      But then again these last to areas are in the realm of
      persuasion, masking itself as information. I think if
      I was going to try to forego the (pardon the words)
      two step pedagogy in speech class, I would need to
      exemplify how "information" is misused and altererd.
      But then I'dbe teaching a class in persuasion or
      jounralism or TV criticism, and not necessarily an
      intro basic speech class.

      --- "Gring, Mark" <Mark.Gring@...> wrote:

      > So, Tye,
      > (For the sake of stirring the pot, so to speak, on
      > this issue): What exactly IS the difference between
      > "merely presenting information" and advocacy? It is
      > merely "words that actuate" or must it be something
      > else? Can one have advocacy about a point of view
      > that only entails "how one views the data?" If one
      > presents information does the speaker not choose
      > which information to present and HOW to present it?
      > Is it not another kind of advocacy? Does the
      > speaker not attempt to persuade the audience about
      > his/her ethos, the credibility of the "data" being
      > presented, and that the data is "fair and balanced"
      > to the extent possible?
      >
      > I have not seen that the research in rhetoric as
      > epistemic, in writing pedagogy, in standpoint
      > epistemology, or rhetoric of science actually
      > support our pedagogical distinctions. Yet we
      > continue to present so whimsically about some
      > definite ontological distinction between informative
      > and persuasive speaking. What Myrene presents us
      > with here is a critique of our own under-examined
      > pedagogical assumptions.
      >
      > Sorry to come out of "lurker land" with such a burst
      > but this is a "hot button" topic for me and one that
      > I find is easily ignored by our journals--or at
      > least there is little interest to publish what I
      > have written about this.
      >
      > Mark
      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      > Mark Gring,PhD
      > Communication Studies Dept.
      > Texas Tech University
      > Lubbock, TX 79409-3083
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: americancomm@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Ty
      > Adams
      > Sent: Mon 5/1/2006 9:44 AM
      > To: americancomm@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [americancomm] to Myrene and list...
      >
      > Myrene,
      >
      > I just got back in from New Orleans, and so, have
      > just encountered your
      > email. Went to see Springsteen and the Seeger
      > Sessions Band perform at
      > Jazzfest, yesterday. Was quite a treat.
      >
      > As to your question: Here, at UL Lafayette, we like
      > to break the informative
      > and persuasive presentations up into 2 different
      > speeches (5-7 minutes
      > each). Main reason is: Once you make a move to
      > advocacy, the speech (in its
      > entirety) becomes a persuasive speech. I guess one
      > could do a combination
      > speech, as you have outlined. But, doing so [even
      > when done in the business
      > world] amounts to doing 2 speeches which are
      > similarly themed (in my
      > opinion). Interesting concept of pairing the
      > speeches together for a longer
      > presentation, actually. But, I would likely still
      > be inclined to keep the
      > genres distinct so that the students know the
      > difference between merely
      > conveying information and advocating for/against an
      > issue.
      >
      > Ty Adams
      > www.swampboy.com
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Mark Fabiano
      Phone: 614-288-9833
      email: infowriters@...
      Web: http://www.geocities.com/writeprojects/home_1.html
      1678 Hightower Drive
      Columbus, OH 43235









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