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Re: [altkeyboards] Re: Name this keyboard!

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  • NobukiSugita
    The keyboard was manufactured by NEC. It is no longer on sale. It is based on the system invented by Dr. Masanori Morita, formerly of NEC, with the intention
    Message 1 of 10 , May 5, 2005
      The keyboard was manufactured by NEC. It is no longer on sale. It is
      based on the system invented by Dr. Masanori Morita, formerly of NEC,
      with the intention of making Japanese input easier. First it was adopted
      for the dedicated word processor and later the keyboard for PC was
      made. In addition to the characteristics Scott described, it has an
      extended feature. The left side of the keyboard is for vowels and the
      right side for consonants. With the simultaneous hit of the left thumb
      and and right hand fingers you get extended consonants such as ky, sy,
      ty, and so on. The combination of the right thumb and the left finger
      will give you a pair of a vowel and a special consonant.

      The principle of the system, called M-shiki, or M system, taken from the
      name of the inventor, is on
      http://121ware.com/apinfo/content/mworld/
      (in Japanese).

      There is currently a project going on to implement the system on
      conventional keyboard,
      http://m-keyboard.cocolog-nifty.com/mkeyboard/
      (in Japanese).

      One interesting thing about this keyboard is the use of simultaneous hit
      of the thumb with other fingers. That is similar to the thumb-shift
      keyboard I described in my privious post.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/message/2327

      Hope this will help.

      Nobuki Sugita
      http://thumb-shift.txt-nifty.com/
      (in Japanese)

      P Scott Horne wrote:
      > I should clarify that I was speaking of the traditional Japanese *lexical*
      > order. It is as if we designed a keyboard for English with A E I O U (in
      > that order) on one hand and B C D F G H ... on the other. The result of that
      > naïve assignment would not yield an especially good keyboard. In the case of
      > Japanese, however, that layout turns out to be quite good, as the most
      > frequent consonants (roughly S K T H) occur at the beginning of the
      > conventional lexical order.
      >
      > Scott Horne
      > Horne Translations
      > www.hornetranslations.com
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of alz
      > Sent: 5 mai 2005 12:21
      > To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [altkeyboards] Re: Name this keyboard!
      >
      >
      > Yup -- I wasn't sure if the arrangement was suited more towards the
      > japanese language, or a better general layout.
      >
      > I've dug pretty deep in Google, but found nothing that actually tells
      > me the keyboard name. It's a great layout to try and remap a new
      > layout onto.
      >
      > After some more researching, it looks like it is/isn't(?) related to
      > the Tron TK1. The TK1 has a similiar layout, but features a built-in
      > writing tablet in the lower half. The TK1 is certainly a bit more
      > larger than this one, however.
      >
      > http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/news98-10fig1.jpg
      > http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/tron08.jpg
      >
      > And another shot of the NEC keyboard:
      > http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/ipsj021.jpg
      >
      >
      > --- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, "P Scott Horne" <prl.horne@s...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >>It's designed for typing Japanese. The vowels are arranged in the
      >>traditional Japanese order (a i u e o), and so are the consonants (k
      >
      > s t n h
      >
      >>m y r w). A rather naïve design, but probably a fairly good one.
      >
      > Presumably
      >
      >>the index fingers would be on A and K (or perhaps S).
      >>
      >>Scott Horne
      >>Horne Translations
      >>www.hornetranslations.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/
      >
      >
      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > altkeyboards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:altkeyboards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      >
      >
      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • NobukiSugita
      Oops, I wrote a wrong name for Dr. Morita. His correct name is Masasuke. Many apologies to Dr. Morita and readers.
      Message 2 of 10 , May 6, 2005
        Oops, I wrote a wrong name for Dr. Morita. His correct name is Masasuke.

        Many apologies to Dr. Morita and readers.

        NobukiSugita wrote:
        > The keyboard was manufactured by NEC. It is no longer on sale. It is
        > based on the system invented by Dr. Masanori Morita, formerly of NEC,
        > with the intention of making Japanese input easier. First it was adopted
        > for the dedicated word processor and later the keyboard for PC was
        > made. In addition to the characteristics Scott described, it has an
        > extended feature. The left side of the keyboard is for vowels and the
        > right side for consonants. With the simultaneous hit of the left thumb
        > and and right hand fingers you get extended consonants such as ky, sy,
        > ty, and so on. The combination of the right thumb and the left finger
        > will give you a pair of a vowel and a special consonant.
        >
        > The principle of the system, called M-shiki, or M system, taken from the
        > name of the inventor, is on
        > http://121ware.com/apinfo/content/mworld/
        > (in Japanese).
        >
        > There is currently a project going on to implement the system on
        > conventional keyboard,
        > http://m-keyboard.cocolog-nifty.com/mkeyboard/
        > (in Japanese).
        >
        > One interesting thing about this keyboard is the use of simultaneous hit
        > of the thumb with other fingers. That is similar to the thumb-shift
        > keyboard I described in my privious post.
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/message/2327
        >
        > Hope this will help.
        >
        > Nobuki Sugita
        > http://thumb-shift.txt-nifty.com/
        > (in Japanese)
        >
        > P Scott Horne wrote:
        >
        >>I should clarify that I was speaking of the traditional Japanese *lexical*
        >>order. It is as if we designed a keyboard for English with A E I O U (in
        >>that order) on one hand and B C D F G H ... on the other. The result of that
        >>naïve assignment would not yield an especially good keyboard. In the case of
        >>Japanese, however, that layout turns out to be quite good, as the most
        >>frequent consonants (roughly S K T H) occur at the beginning of the
        >>conventional lexical order.
        >>
        >>Scott Horne
        >>Horne Translations
        >>www.hornetranslations.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> _____
        >>
        >>From: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com] On
        >>Behalf Of alz
        >>Sent: 5 mai 2005 12:21
        >>To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
        >>Subject: [altkeyboards] Re: Name this keyboard!
        >>
        >>
        >>Yup -- I wasn't sure if the arrangement was suited more towards the
        >>japanese language, or a better general layout.
        >>
        >>I've dug pretty deep in Google, but found nothing that actually tells
        >>me the keyboard name. It's a great layout to try and remap a new
        >>layout onto.
        >>
        >>After some more researching, it looks like it is/isn't(?) related to
        >>the Tron TK1. The TK1 has a similiar layout, but features a built-in
        >>writing tablet in the lower half. The TK1 is certainly a bit more
        >>larger than this one, however.
        >>
        >>http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/news98-10fig1.jpg
        >>http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/tron08.jpg
        >>
        >>And another shot of the NEC keyboard:
        >>http://www.sol.dti.ne.jp/~cdrcarco/ipsj021.jpg
        >>
        >>
        >>--- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, "P Scott Horne" <prl.horne@s...>
        >>wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>>It's designed for typing Japanese. The vowels are arranged in the
        >>>traditional Japanese order (a i u e o), and so are the consonants (k
        >>
        >>s t n h
        >>
        >>
        >>>m y r w). A rather naïve design, but probably a fairly good one.
        >>
        >>Presumably
        >>
        >>
        >>>the index fingers would be on A and K (or perhaps S).
        >>>
        >>>Scott Horne
        >>>Horne Translations
        >>>www.hornetranslations.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
        >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        >>altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> _____
        >>
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>* To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/
        >>
        >>
        >>* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >>altkeyboards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >><mailto:altkeyboards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        >>
        >>
        >>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        >><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
        >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • alz
        Fantastic info! I knew of the mworld link, but had no idea what it was saying. I remember your thumb shift post. I think using the thumb more often is a great
        Message 3 of 10 , May 7, 2005
          Fantastic info!

          I knew of the mworld link, but had no idea what it was saying.

          I remember your thumb shift post. I think using the thumb more often
          is a great new direction. Why limit 2 of your 10 fingers to ONE key?
          ;)

          Thanks again for the helpful information
        • NobukiSugita
          I m glad you liked it. Today (May 7) happens to be the day when a Japanese word processor, called OASYS, from Office Automation SYStem, by Fujitsu was
          Message 4 of 10 , May 7, 2005
            I'm glad you liked it.

            Today (May 7) happens to be the day when a Japanese word processor,
            called OASYS, from Office Automation SYStem, by Fujitsu was officially
            made public 25 years ago, although it was not the first in Japan
            (Toshiba came first). It came with the thumb-shift keyboard, as well as
            the conventional JIS(Japanese Industrial Standard) layout keyboard. A
            lot of manufacturers, such as Toshiba, NEC, Fujitsu, Canon, Sony, Casio
            and so on entered this then rapidly expanding market of Japanese word
            processors.

            At that time, manufacturers put in their effort to make Japanese input
            easier. Thumb-shift and M-shiki are some of the examples. After the
            emergence of personal computers, which are more versatile and became
            more affordable, the market of dedicated word processors shrunk so much
            that now no manufacturers make them. During that process, the
            accumulated knowledge had been lost, in my opinion, and keyboards suited
            for Japanese input were forgotten. That's a pity.

            Thumb-shift users are still lucky. There are currently a few keyboards
            commercially available, including those for the mobile phone. We can use
            it in Windows, Mac OS and Linux, through either commercial or
            community-based (freeware and shareware)solutions.

            Using simultaneous hit with thumb and other fingers makes each key
            "conjugate" in three (in case of thumb-shift) or two (in case of
            M-shiki) characters. This is not necessary in English environment
            because the number of characters is small. But in other languages, the
            number is usually larger than a standard keyboard can accomodate. I
            think here I see a possibility of thumb-shift keyboard. As I mentioned
            in my site, there are several theoretical models for input Asian languages.

            If you have any questions or comments, just tell me. I will be glad to help.

            Nobuki Sugita
          • alz
            If I m googling right, it looks like one of these keyboards are up for sale over at a Japanese Auctioning site.
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 7, 2006
              If I'm googling right, it looks like one of these keyboards are up for
              sale over at a Japanese Auctioning site.

              http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://auction.livedoor.com/
              detail%3Fid%3D597831&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnec%2Bpk-kb015%26start%3D30%
              26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN

              It'd be a great piece to have -- simply rewire/relabel to test the
              layout! But 90,000Y is too rich for my blood.

              Does anyone know what the various non-english keys are?

              Older post with larger photo:
              http://www.auction.co.jp/mem1/item/mem_itm_item.asp?LOT=695112
            • Rob Smith
              I followed a link from the auction web page to http://121ware.com/apinfo1/content/mworld/ and buried in that website I found the following image:
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 8, 2006
                I followed a link from the auction web page to
                http://121ware.com/apinfo1/content/mworld/ and buried in that website I
                found the following image:
                http://121ware.com/apinfo1/content/mworld/images/nwp98.GIF

                It's the best physical keyboard layout that I've seen so far (though would
                require a thorough remapping, and was probably only ever made as a
                prototype).

                It ticks all of these boxes for me:
                -Split keyboard
                -Keys in staggered columns
                -Flat
                -Multiple keys for each thumb
                -No keypad
                -Extra row of keys for your index fingers

                The only thing that it is lacking in, is that it doesn't have laptop style
                keys (and the keyboard probably doesn't exist).

                The search continues....

                On 08/02/06, alz <alzagor@...> wrote:
                >
                > If I'm googling right, it looks like one of these keyboards are up for
                > sale over at a Japanese Auctioning site.
                >
                > http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://auction.livedoor.com/
                > detail%3Fid%3D597831&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnec%2Bpk-kb015%26start%3D30%
                > 26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN
                >
                > It'd be a great piece to have -- simply rewire/relabel to test the
                > layout! But 90,000Y is too rich for my blood.
                >
                > Does anyone know what the various non-english keys are?
                >
                > Older post with larger photo:
                > http://www.auction.co.jp/mem1/item/mem_itm_item.asp?LOT=695112
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


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