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Re: Earlier development of V-2?

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  • scottk01@dreamscape.com
    ... fields ... over the ... major ... way to ... Presume ... the war and ... with a ... instead ... fleet to the ... virtually ... plus air ... Italian 10th
    Message 1 of 75 , Dec 1, 2001
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      --- In alternate-history@y..., "Scott Palter" <victoriancow2345@e...>
      wrote:
      > Now we are on the same frequency.
      >
      > The Caucasus were a myth. Presume the Germans capture the oil
      fields
      > intact. A pipeline dies of guerilla action. The one rail bridge
      over the
      > Don north of Rostov is not going to permit enough traffic to have a
      major
      > impact on the war, and fuel cars on a railroad are a VERY expensive
      way to
      > move the stuff.
      >
      > To me the key alternative comes in the summer and autumn of 1940.
      Presume
      > that Hitler twigs quickly to the idea that Britain is staying in
      the war and
      > doesn't buy the British diplomatic fakes of May - August.
      >
      > Sea Lion is at best a long shot.
      >
      > The key is forcing Italy to take German 'help' early. Send Rome
      with a
      > panzer corps (2 panzer and one motorized divisions in July of 1940)
      instead
      > of the following February - May. Send Kesselring's entire air
      fleet to the
      > Med. Use Student's remnants to quickly take Malta, which was
      virtually
      > undefended in 1940.
      >
      > Egypt was barely defended in the summer of 1940. Rommel's corps
      plus air
      > cover and a bit of air resupply can waltz to the Canal. The
      Italian 10th
      > Army follows behind as an occupation force for Egypt and points
      south
      > (Sudan) and East (Palestine, Jordan).
      >
      > The Brits would put block ships in the Canal and retreat both
      across the
      > Sinai and up the Nile with the fleet (filled to the brim with Empire
      > refugees and military rear area hangers) on pulling back to Aden and
      > Mombassa. Two weeks to clear Alexandria of British demolitions and
      bring in
      > the engineering resources to bridge the Canal. Meantime Student
      and an
      > Italian naval squadron can take Cyprus (equally undefended in
      1940). Once
      > across the Canal, you repeat Dayan's 100 hour Sinai campaign in the
      other
      > direction. Another week gets you Palestine - the Arabs were
      already in
      > revolt and there were basically 4 1918 type divisions (counting the
      Arab
      > Legion) and 100,000 Jews to hold it.
      >
      > A week for resupply through Haifa - the Eastern basin of the Med is
      now an
      > Axis lake and the Brits would be rushed blowing Haifa up - too many
      > refugees, not enough transport, total chaos.
      >
      > The useable part of Jordan takes another week - let the Italian
      fast troops
      > occupy Aquaba while Rommel takes Amman and the Yarmuk Valley.
      >
      > So end of September Rommel's armored car units are fencing with the
      tail end
      > of the British retreat at air base H5 in the desert on the road to
      Baghdad.
      >
      > Now have Rashid Ali's Iraqi revolt break out. Vichy gave transit
      rights
      > through Syria in the actual 1941 revolt. They would be more likely
      to now
      > just after the British treachery at Mers El Kabir and Dakar. So
      Ali gets
      > supported by Student's rump division (a small brigade) and a few
      squadrons
      > of Stukas and Ju 52's out of Kirkuk and Mosul. Rommel does a
      desert dash,
      > living off momentum and captured British supplies and transport
      (same as he
      > did several times in OTL). Major parts of the British retreat cut
      off and
      > captured / massacred around Baghdad. The remains retreat down both
      sides of
      > the Gulf Coast with the RN taking out what they can along the way.
      By the
      > end of October the Brits are penned up at Basra but otherwise out
      of Iraq
      > and the adjacent Persian oil province. By the end of January the
      Axis has
      > cleared the Arabian side of the Gulf to at least the Emirates and
      perhaps to
      > Oman. Persia, Iraq and Turkey have joined the Axis. The pipelines
      to Haifa
      > are pumping oil out at Beirut and Haifa which can be taken by
      tanker toi
      > Trieste or up the Danube.
      >
      > Italian East Africa has been linked up to Axis Europe.
      >
      > A real Axis push would include Aden, Yemen, the rest of Saudi and
      perhaps a
      > bit of Congo and British East Africa but that's all optional.
      >
      > Also no Balkan campaign so add two or three weeks to Barbarossa.
      >
      > Scott

      A lot of Commonwealth units can zip from India to Port Said or
      Baghdad-I have the Europa OB for War in the Desert. I think your
      premise will work, it just won't be a walkover. The Soviets may have
      a Front/army group in the Mid East from the Caucasus(I'll have to dig
      out the 'Red Desert' Europa scenario to check where they came
      from)...and don't forget Turkey. One plan was not to supply monty
      with US tanks but to shift 2 Us divisions around the horn into egypt,
      admittably they'd be a tad late...
      >
      >
    • Thomas Roche
      How does this affect the future course of world history? ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at
      Message 75 of 75 , Dec 4, 2001
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        How does this affect the future course of world
        history?

        --- rurr2@... wrote:
        > --- In alternate-history@y..., Thomas Roche
        > <tertullianus_2000@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > Imagine Hitler foolishly attacks and destroys
        > Mecca,
        > > and, as you suggest, millions of quiescent Muslims
        > > worldwide organize together under some sort of
        > > charismatic leader willing to fight the northern
        > > infidels. What happens? Especially what are the
        > > consequences for worldwide Jewry?
        > >
        > The German Muslim units rebel. Turkey probably
        > declares war
        > agasint Germany. (There's an intresting sitaution
        > here Turkish troops
        > entering Greece and the Russias?) The Brits and
        > French probably get
        > thosuand Islamic volunteers, in their service. Any
        > Vichy french
        > possesions still in N. Africa or the Mid east are
        > set alight.
        >
        > However the net result is atagonism to the West in
        > general. even if
        > the muslim worlds is united by a new caliph. the
        > Isalmic world does
        > not have the infastructure to campaign north. nor
        > are the Brits or
        > frencH going to be to please at thousands of Muslim
        > youths arming.
        > ThE Europeans are driven out of N. africa early.
        >
        >
        > rurr,
        >
        >


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