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Attack on Florida

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  • Charles Collins
    There was a rumour that when the US invaded Panama in 89, Castro was planning to attack a nuclear power plant in Florida (around Miami, I believe, but I m not
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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      There was a rumour that when the US invaded Panama in '89, Castro was
      planning to attack a nuclear power plant in Florida (around Miami, I
      believe, but I'm not sure). His military talked him out of it
      (thinking he was maybe a little crazy).

      What happens if this occurs?

      Two scenarios: 1) Cuba attacks and planes are destroyed before
      doing damage; or
      2) Cuba hits the plant

      Charley
    • mattias persson
      ... the event is covered up ... nucelear incident and Miami glows in the dark. American public is outraged and the president orders all conventional bombers
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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        >
        >Two scenarios: 1) Cuba attacks and planes are destroyed before
        >doing damage; or

        the event is covered up

        > 2) Cuba hits the plant
        nucelear incident and Miami glows in the dark. American public is outraged
        and the president orders all conventional bombers nearby to attack Havana.
        Cuba gets bombed back to the stoneage and then the marines land and Cuba
        becomes a US protectorate


        ************************************
        *bu99mape@... *
        *icq #11425992 *
        *Have a nice day. *
        ************************************

        http://www.torget.se/users/m/mpn74 GIF inofficiall site
        http://www.geocities.com/bu99mape alternativ history site, in english
      • Charley Collins
        I don t know if we would bomb them to the stoneage, but definitely invade. What about the rest of the world? Does the invasion of a communist country
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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          I don't know if we would bomb them to the stoneage, but definitely invade.

          What about the rest of the world? Does the invasion of a communist country
          (knowing, of course, Cuba was no Panama, and their army would have been
          tough to beat) cause a delay of events in Eastern Europe, or rile up the
          Soviet military against Gorby? What about the situation in Nicaragua?

          How would a prolonged campaign have affected the US military (probably
          pretty high casualties - tens of thousands, I would suspect)? It could not
          have played a waiting game like in Kuwait. We would have invaded pretty
          quick. If conflict in Cuba is prolonged, and continuing when Iraq invades
          Kuwait, does the US respond to Gulf Crisis differently?

          Charley

          -----Original Message-----
          From: mattias persson [mailto:bu99mape@...]
          Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:35 PM
          To: alternate-history@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [alternate-history] Attack on Florida



          >
          >Two scenarios: 1) Cuba attacks and planes are destroyed before
          >doing damage; or

          the event is covered up

          > 2) Cuba hits the plant
          nucelear incident and Miami glows in the dark. American public is outraged
          and the president orders all conventional bombers nearby to attack Havana.
          Cuba gets bombed back to the stoneage and then the marines land and Cuba
          becomes a US protectorate


          ************************************
          *bu99mape@... *
          *icq #11425992 *
          *Have a nice day. *
          ************************************

          http://www.torget.se/users/m/mpn74 GIF inofficiall site
          http://www.geocities.com/bu99mape alternativ history site, in english
        • Charley Collins
          Okay, in the realm of what if, this is a pretty big IF: What happens if France supresses both the Indochina and Algerian revolt in the 1950 s (of course,
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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            Okay, in the realm of what if, this is a pretty big IF:

            What happens if France supresses both the Indochina and Algerian revolt in
            the 1950's (of course, Algeria is more likely), leaving France as an active
            truly imperial power in the 1960's and beyond?

            Charley
          • mattias persson
            ... Soviet high generals may feel that they cant win and do nothing. Why make the americans even angrier than they are ... They tell Saddam nicely to back off
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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              At 14:03 2000-10-02 -0500, you wrote:
              >I don't know if we would bomb them to the stoneage, but definitely invade.
              >
              >What about the rest of the world? Does the invasion of a communist country
              >(knowing, of course, Cuba was no Panama, and their army would have been
              >tough to beat) cause a delay of events in Eastern Europe, or rile up the
              >Soviet military against Gorby? What about the situation in Nicaragua?
              >
              Soviet high generals may feel that they cant win and do nothing. Why make
              the americans even angrier than they are

              >How would a prolonged campaign have affected the US military (probably
              >pretty high casualties - tens of thousands, I would suspect)? It could not
              >have played a waiting game like in Kuwait. We would have invaded pretty
              >quick. If conflict in Cuba is prolonged, and continuing when Iraq invades
              >Kuwait, does the US respond to Gulf Crisis differently?
              >
              They tell Saddam nicely to back off or he will get nuked.


              ************************************
              *bu99mape@... *
              *icq #11425992 *
              *Have a nice day. *
              ************************************

              http://www.torget.se/users/m/mpn74 GIF inofficiall site
              http://www.geocities.com/bu99mape alternativ history site, in english
            • Allan Dunbar
              ... Not covered up at all. Enough civilian s would see it that covering it up would be a fatal mistake for any administration. Instead, the US strikes Cuba
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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                At 08:35 2000-10-02 +0200, you wrote:

                > >
                > >Two scenarios: 1) Cuba attacks and planes are destroyed before
                > >doing damage; or
                >
                >the event is covered up

                Not covered up at all. Enough civilian's would see it that covering it up
                would be a fatal mistake for any administration. Instead, the US strikes
                Cuba with a limited cruise missile barrage, and jacks up the already stiff
                sanctions. Europe and US allies follow suit, and Cuba, already withering
                on the vine, goes into economic meltdown, but manages, somehow to hang on,
                barely.

                > > 2) Cuba hits the plant
                >nucelear incident and Miami glows in the dark. American public is outraged
                >and the president orders all conventional bombers nearby to attack Havana.
                >Cuba gets bombed back to the stoneage and then the marines land and Cuba
                >becomes a US protectorate

                Not quite. The US would adopt a Gulf War/Kosovo Conflict approach and bomb
                Cuba's military for as long as possible. Ground troops would only be sent
                in if Cuba refused to surrender and disarm completely (too many memories of
                the Bay of Pigs). US would expand their protectorate at Guantanamo Bay,
                taking in any Cuban civilians that wanted to flee, and shipping them
                out. Complete and total naval and air blockade of Cuba. Nothing military
                goes in or out. Cuban Airforce ceases to exist. Cuban Navy ceases to exist.

                Castro indicted in absentia for war crimes and environmental crimes in the
                Hague. Cuba refuses to disarm, and US marines make two landings, one at
                Havana and a second near Guantanamo. Both are successful. With total air
                superiority, and very short supply lines, the marines make very short work
                of the low morale troops they face. the reality of the last 50 years of
                communism is that Cubans know how poor they are, and they know how rich the
                US is, and they know that to become rich, they must lose to the US. A few
                stalwarts holdout, but Castro is finally captured a week after the invasion
                and is tried and jailed.

                Cuba becomes a US protectorate like Puerto Rico.


                >************************************
                >*bu99mape@... *
                >*icq #11425992 *
                >*Have a nice day. *
                >************************************
                >
                >http://www.torget.se/users/m/mpn74 GIF inofficiall site
                >http://www.geocities.com/bu99mape alternativ history site, in english
                >
                >
              • Allan Dunbar
                ... They suppress the revolts alright, but do not maintain their hold over the colonies beyond the 1960 s. However, these nations become strong democracies
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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                  At 02:15 2000-10-02 -0500, you wrote:
                  >Okay, in the realm of what if, this is a pretty big IF:
                  >
                  >What happens if France supresses both the Indochina and Algerian revolt in
                  >the 1950's (of course, Algeria is more likely), leaving France as an active
                  >truly imperial power in the 1960's and beyond?
                  >
                  >Charley

                  They suppress the revolts alright, but do not maintain their hold over the
                  colonies beyond the 1960's. However, these nations become strong
                  democracies with decent governments and well defined economic policies,
                  changing the shape of local politics in a positive way.

                  With French trained and equipped troops, Indochina would have stopped any
                  Kampuchean internal disorder (probably at France's suggestion mind you) and
                  Pol Pot would have been a failed tyrant, rather than the bloody mass
                  murderer he became in OTL.

                  With more democractic governments and positive human rights records, these
                  nations encourage more US investment earlier on, so the Asian Tigers form
                  in the middle 80's rather than the middle 90's and as a result, Asia is in
                  some respects, more prosperous, and in others, still suffering from the
                  religious problems that seem to haunt it to this day.

                  China and Vietnam do not get along, but have not yet fought a war, whereas,
                  Indochina actively pursues a policy of building stronger democracies in
                  countries like Burma and Thailand.
                • Victorian Cow
                  1. Zero chance of a successful coverup. Our postWatergate political culture does not reward the satndup guy whether Mob or Company. 2. Fairly good chance that
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 3, 2000
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                    1. Zero chance of a successful coverup. Our postWatergate political culture
                    does not reward the satndup guy whether Mob or Company.
                    2. Fairly good chance that the Cuban army uses the emss as an excuse for a
                    coup followed by a quick firing squard for Fidel, Rauol and the few
                    remaining Fidelistas.

                    Scott


                    >From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@...>
                    >Reply-To: alternate-history@egroups.com
                    >To: alternate-history@egroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [alternate-history] Attack on Florida
                    >Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:18:53 +0800
                    >
                    >At 08:35 2000-10-02 +0200, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > >Two scenarios: 1) Cuba attacks and planes are destroyed before
                    > > >doing damage; or
                    > >
                    > >the event is covered up
                    >
                    >Not covered up at all. Enough civilian's would see it that covering it up
                    >would be a fatal mistake for any administration. Instead, the US strikes
                    >Cuba with a limited cruise missile barrage, and jacks up the already stiff
                    >sanctions. Europe and US allies follow suit, and Cuba, already withering
                    >on the vine, goes into economic meltdown, but manages, somehow to hang on,
                    >barely.
                    >
                    > > > 2) Cuba hits the plant
                    > >nucelear incident and Miami glows in the dark. American public is
                    >outraged
                    > >and the president orders all conventional bombers nearby to attack
                    >Havana.
                    > >Cuba gets bombed back to the stoneage and then the marines land and Cuba
                    > >becomes a US protectorate
                    >
                    >Not quite. The US would adopt a Gulf War/Kosovo Conflict approach and bomb
                    >Cuba's military for as long as possible. Ground troops would only be sent
                    >in if Cuba refused to surrender and disarm completely (too many memories of
                    >the Bay of Pigs). US would expand their protectorate at Guantanamo Bay,
                    >taking in any Cuban civilians that wanted to flee, and shipping them
                    >out. Complete and total naval and air blockade of Cuba. Nothing military
                    >goes in or out. Cuban Airforce ceases to exist. Cuban Navy ceases to
                    >exist.
                    >
                    >Castro indicted in absentia for war crimes and environmental crimes in the
                    >Hague. Cuba refuses to disarm, and US marines make two landings, one at
                    >Havana and a second near Guantanamo. Both are successful. With total air
                    >superiority, and very short supply lines, the marines make very short work
                    >of the low morale troops they face. the reality of the last 50 years of
                    >communism is that Cubans know how poor they are, and they know how rich the
                    >US is, and they know that to become rich, they must lose to the US. A few
                    >stalwarts holdout, but Castro is finally captured a week after the invasion
                    >and is tried and jailed.
                    >
                    >Cuba becomes a US protectorate like Puerto Rico.
                    >
                    >
                    > >************************************
                    > >*bu99mape@... *
                    > >*icq #11425992 *
                    > >*Have a nice day. *
                    > >************************************
                    > >
                    > >http://www.torget.se/users/m/mpn74 GIF inofficiall site
                    > >http://www.geocities.com/bu99mape alternativ history site, in english
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

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                  • Victorian Cow
                    Real simple story outline. French make the European Union (EEC, EDC, ECSC, etc.) dependant on the emerging Europe accepting the defense burden of the French
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 3, 2000
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                      Real simple story outline. French make the European Union
                      (EEC, EDC, ECSC, etc.) dependant on the emerging 'Europe' accepting the
                      defense burden of the French Union. Split the blood and gold price multiple
                      ways and its sustainable, if annoying.

                      Scott

                      >From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@...>
                      >Reply-To: alternate-history@egroups.com
                      >To: alternate-history@egroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [alternate-history] viva la France
                      >Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:26:37 +0800
                      >
                      >At 02:15 2000-10-02 -0500, you wrote:
                      > >Okay, in the realm of what if, this is a pretty big IF:
                      > >
                      > >What happens if France supresses both the Indochina and Algerian revolt
                      >in
                      > >the 1950's (of course, Algeria is more likely), leaving France as an
                      >active
                      > >truly imperial power in the 1960's and beyond?
                      > >
                      > >Charley
                      >
                      >They suppress the revolts alright, but do not maintain their hold over the
                      >colonies beyond the 1960's. However, these nations become strong
                      >democracies with decent governments and well defined economic policies,
                      >changing the shape of local politics in a positive way.
                      >
                      >With French trained and equipped troops, Indochina would have stopped any
                      >Kampuchean internal disorder (probably at France's suggestion mind you) and
                      >Pol Pot would have been a failed tyrant, rather than the bloody mass
                      >murderer he became in OTL.
                      >
                      >With more democractic governments and positive human rights records, these
                      >nations encourage more US investment earlier on, so the Asian Tigers form
                      >in the middle 80's rather than the middle 90's and as a result, Asia is in
                      >some respects, more prosperous, and in others, still suffering from the
                      >religious problems that seem to haunt it to this day.
                      >
                      >China and Vietnam do not get along, but have not yet fought a war, whereas,
                      >Indochina actively pursues a policy of building stronger democracies in
                      >countries like Burma and Thailand.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

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