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Does TDD make sense when you're the only developer?

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  • dzcepheus
    As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you re the only developer in your company?
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 10 7:44 PM
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      As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
      developer in your company?
    • Jonjon Limjap
      Why not? If you re developing a fairly large system, sooner or later you will forget parts of your code and it will soon seem as though it was written by a
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 10 7:51 PM
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        Why not?

        If you're developing a fairly large system, sooner or later you will forget parts of your code and it will soon seem as though it was written by a totally different person.

        Aside from that, your tests will ensure that no previous features will be broken by subsequent new features.

        My $0.02

        -Jon

        2008/4/11, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...>:

        As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
        developer in your company?




        --
        Pampagising sa inaantok na kamalayan - http://blog.kapenilattex.com
        .NET @ Kape ni LaTtEX - http://dotnet.kapenilattex.com
      • Cláudio Figueiredo
        Man, being the lone coder should be boring. Who would you argue with? :D No, seriusly now, I think it s worth it. TDD, despicte all the arguments presented
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 10 7:53 PM
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          Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
          Who would you argue with? :D
           
          No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
          TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
           
          Regards,

          On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

          As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
          developer in your company?




          --
          Claudio Figueiredo
          jcfigueiredo@...
          Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
        • Erik Forbes
          Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =) Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what s the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 10 8:30 PM
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            Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

            Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

            On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

            Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
            Who would you argue with? :D
             
            No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
            TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
             
            Regards,

            On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

            As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
            developer in your company?




            --
            Claudio Figueiredo
            jcfigueiredo@...
            Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org



            --
            Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
          • Mark Hildreth
            I m the lone coder (at least for .NET stuff) for where I work. Yes, unit testing and TDD has made my code much more reliable.
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 10 8:36 PM
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              I'm the lone coder (at least for .NET stuff) for where I work. Yes, unit testing and TDD has made my code much more reliable.
            • Gabriel Schenker
              Yes, absolutely! TDD is NOT about team development BUT about quality of code and about the possibility to refactor. And as your solution grows you WILL have to
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 10 9:33 PM
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                Yes, absolutely! TDD is NOT about team development BUT about quality
                of code and about the possibility to refactor. And as your solution
                grows you WILL have to refactore. Or migth it even be that the
                requirements change... Only having a good test coverage will give you
                that feeling of "let's just implement this new feature" or "let's
                change it" and immediately have a feedback what possible side effects
                this change introduced. Otherwise people tend to start to sweat if all
                of the sudden they are confronted with significant change requests.
                With TDD you also easily detect code smells - namely when you find out
                that something is hard to test. Then it's time to refactor (or
                re-think)

                On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:44 AM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                > developer in your company?
                >
                >
              • sefstrat
                I am also a lone wolf developer, and I can assure you that both you and your users will eventually be thankful if you make a habit of writing good unit tests.
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 10 11:22 PM
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                  I am also a lone wolf developer, and I can assure you that both you
                  and your users will eventually be thankful if you make a habit of
                  writing good unit tests.

                  I started out with the mindset that it was too time consuming to write
                  a bunch of tests since I was the only developer, and I could
                  understand all my own code, etc.. but I quickly learned after first
                  release of a product the true value of unit tests. There were a few
                  bugs in the release, upon fixing them I created more bugs, upon fixing
                  those I created another. You know the drill, its a vicious circle.
                  Fortunately with good automated tests you can greatly reduce the
                  chance of this happening.

                  Personally I think the best way to learn how to write good tests is by
                  looking at code and how other people write tests. Pretty much any
                  good open source project will have a large library of tests you can
                  learn from. =)

                  --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Forbes" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                  >
                  > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to
                  > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources
                  (preferably
                  > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning
                  > TDD?
                  >
                  > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                  > > Who would you argue with? :D
                  > >
                  > > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                  > > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has
                  served me
                  > > well in one point more then others: It's has made come to
                  conclusions about
                  > > my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code) than would
                  have taken
                  > > without using TDD.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                  > > > developer in your company?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Claudio Figueiredo
                  > > jcfigueiredo@...
                  > > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                  >
                • Roy Osherove
                  To this day I regret not doing The Regulator in TDD techniques. It s buggy and hacky as hell, and I m scared to go near it (even though it s quite small in
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 11 3:37 AM
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                    To this day I regret not doing "The Regulator" in TDD techniques. It's buggy and hacky as hell, and I'm scared to go near it (even though it's quite small in code)

                    On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:22 AM, sefstrat <sefstrat@...> wrote:
                    I am also a lone wolf developer, and I can assure you that both you
                    and your users will eventually be thankful if you make a habit of
                    writing good unit tests.

                    I started out with the mindset that it was too time consuming to write
                    a bunch of tests since I was the only developer, and I could
                    understand all my own code, etc.. but I quickly learned after first
                    release of a product the true value of unit tests.  There were a few
                    bugs in the release, upon fixing them I created more bugs, upon fixing
                    those I created another. You know the drill, its a vicious circle.
                    Fortunately with good automated tests you can greatly reduce the
                    chance of this happening.

                    Personally I think the best way to learn how to write good tests is by
                    looking at code and how other people write tests.  Pretty much any
                    good open source project will have a large library of tests you can
                    learn from.  =)

                    --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Forbes" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                    >
                    > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to
                    > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources
                    (preferably
                    > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning
                    > TDD?
                    >
                    > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >   Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                    > > Who would you argue with? :D
                    > >
                    > > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                    > > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has
                    served me
                    > > well in one point more then others: It's has made come to
                    conclusions about
                    > > my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would
                    have taken
                    > > without using TDD.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >   As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                    > > > developer in your company?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Claudio Figueiredo
                    > > jcfigueiredo@...
                    > > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                    >



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                    --
                    Thanks,

                    Roy Osherove
                    www.TypeMock.com - Simplify Unit Testing

                    Author of "The Art Of Unit Testing" ( http://ArtOfUnitTesting.com )
                    www.ISerializable.com (blog)
                  • Markus Zywitza
                    Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit. -Markus ... Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit. -Markus On 4/11/08, Erik Forbes wrote:
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 11 3:51 AM
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                      Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.
                       
                      -Markus
                       
                      On 4/11/08, Erik Forbes <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                      Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                      Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                      On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

                      Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                      Who would you argue with? :D
                       
                      No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                      TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
                       
                      Regards,

                       
                      On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                      As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                      developer in your company?




                       
                      --
                      Claudio Figueiredo
                      jcfigueiredo@...
                      Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org



                      --
                      Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!

                    • Benny Thomas
                      ... As the only TDD programmer at our company, I feel strongly that TDD helps me managing my projects and keeping away from unwanted bugs and to get a bigger
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 11 4:10 AM
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                        --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "dzcepheus" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                        > developer in your company?
                        >

                        As the only TDD programmer at our company, I feel strongly that TDD
                        helps me managing my projects and keeping away from unwanted bugs and
                        to get a bigger understanding of what I'm doing.
                      • Zdeslav Vojkovic
                        Actually, i believe that TDD is even more important if you are the only developer. At company where I work as a member of a development team, we have a very
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 11 4:26 AM
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                          Actually, i believe that TDD is even more important if you are the
                          only developer.

                          At company where I work as a member of a development team, we have a
                          very dedicated and professional test department. Those guys are
                          extremely efficient in finding bugs and making developers life lousy
                          :)

                          However, if you are working as the only developer, it is very likely
                          that there is no real test department, so you really need TDD, to
                          ensure the desired level of quality.

                          I found out during work on my personal pet projects, that without TDD
                          it would take much more time to produce anything useful, especially
                          when it comes to fixing complex bugs, where you usually break
                          something else.
                        • Emanuele DelBono
                          Here you can find a lot of articles, tools, .... http://codebetter.com/blogs/darrell.norton/articles/50337.aspx bye. -- ema http://blog.codiceplastico.com
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 11 4:49 AM
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                            Here you can find a lot of articles, tools, ....

                            http://codebetter.com/blogs/darrell.norton/articles/50337.aspx

                            bye.

                            --
                            ema
                            http://blog.codiceplastico.com
                          • Cláudio Figueiredo
                            YEAH!! If Skynet had been written with TDD it wouldn t get Crazy! ... Regards, ... -- Claudio Figueiredo jcfigueiredo@stormwindproject.org Stormwind Project
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 11 5:52 AM
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                              YEAH!!
                               
                              If Skynet had been written with TDD it wouldn't get Crazy!
                               
                              :p
                               
                              Regards,


                              On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Roy Osherove <roy@...> wrote:

                              To this day I regret not doing "The Regulator" in TDD techniques. It's buggy and hacky as hell, and I'm scared to go near it (even though it's quite small in code)

                              On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:22 AM, sefstrat <sefstrat@...> wrote:
                              I am also a lone wolf developer, and I can assure you that both you
                              and your users will eventually be thankful if you make a habit of
                              writing good unit tests.

                              I started out with the mindset that it was too time consuming to write
                              a bunch of tests since I was the only developer, and I could
                              understand all my own code, etc.. but I quickly learned after first
                              release of a product the true value of unit tests.  There were a few
                              bugs in the release, upon fixing them I created more bugs, upon fixing
                              those I created another. You know the drill, its a vicious circle.
                              Fortunately with good automated tests you can greatly reduce the
                              chance of this happening.

                              Personally I think the best way to learn how to write good tests is by
                              looking at code and how other people write tests.  Pretty much any
                              good open source project will have a large library of tests you can
                              learn from.  =)

                              --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Forbes" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                              >
                              > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to
                              > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources
                              (preferably
                              > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning
                              > TDD?
                              >
                              > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > >   Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                              > > Who would you argue with? :D
                              > >
                              > > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                              > > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has
                              served me
                              > > well in one point more then others: It's has made come to
                              conclusions about
                              > > my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would
                              have taken
                              > > without using TDD.
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > >
                              > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >   As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                              > > > developer in your company?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Claudio Figueiredo
                              > > jcfigueiredo@...
                              > > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                              >



                              ------------------------------------

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                              --
                              Thanks,

                              Roy Osherove
                              www.TypeMock.com - Simplify Unit Testing

                              Author of "The Art Of Unit Testing" ( http://ArtOfUnitTesting.com )
                              www.ISerializable.com (blog)




                              --
                              Claudio Figueiredo
                              jcfigueiredo@...
                              Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                            • Cláudio Figueiredo
                              TDD by example, Kent Beck. http://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Addison-Wesley-Signature/dp/0321146530 Really like it. Regards, ... -- Claudio
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 11 5:56 AM
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                                TDD by example, Kent Beck.
                                 
                                Really like it.
                                 
                                Regards,

                                On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Erik Forbes <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                                Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                                Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                                On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

                                Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                Who would you argue with? :D
                                 
                                No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
                                 
                                Regards,

                                On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                                As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                developer in your company?




                                --
                                Claudio Figueiredo
                                jcfigueiredo@...
                                Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org



                                --
                                Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!




                                --
                                Claudio Figueiredo
                                jcfigueiredo@...
                                Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                              • Aaron Carlson
                                BOOO!! I didn t like Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit. I would start with Test Driven Development by Example by Kent Beck. Then I would read
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 11 6:27 AM
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                                  BOOO!!  I didn't like Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.  I would start with Test Driven Development by Example by Kent Beck.  Then I would read Refactoring by Martin Fowler.
                                   
                                   
                                  On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:51 AM, Markus Zywitza <markus.zywitza@...> wrote:
                                  Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.
                                   
                                  -Markus
                                   
                                  On 4/11/08, Erik Forbes <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                  Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                                  Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                                  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

                                  Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                  Who would you argue with? :D
                                   
                                  No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                  TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
                                   
                                  Regards,

                                   
                                  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                                  As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                  developer in your company?




                                   
                                  --
                                  Claudio Figueiredo
                                  jcfigueiredo@...
                                  Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org



                                  --
                                  Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!




                                  --
                                  Aaron Carlson
                                • Bill Barry
                                  I am liking Refactoring to Patterns by Joshua Kerievsky so far. It kinda feels like it is bringing together Refactoring (Fowler) and Design Patterns (GoF).
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 11 7:03 AM
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                                    I am liking Refactoring to Patterns by Joshua Kerievsky so far.

                                    It kinda feels like it is bringing together Refactoring (Fowler) and Design Patterns (GoF).

                                    Aaron Carlson wrote:
                                    BOOO!!  I didn't like Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.  I would start with Test Driven Development by Example by Kent Beck.  Then I would read Refactoring by Martin Fowler.
                                     

                                  • Erik Forbes
                                    Thanks a lot for the recommendations, guys. =) On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Bill Barry ... -- Support your local gravity testers
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 11 8:01 AM
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                                      Thanks a lot for the recommendations, guys. =)

                                      On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Bill Barry <after.fallout@...> wrote:

                                      I am liking Refactoring to Patterns by Joshua Kerievsky so far.

                                      It kinda feels like it is bringing together Refactoring (Fowler) and Design Patterns (GoF).



                                      Aaron Carlson wrote:
                                      BOOO!!  I didn't like Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.  I would start with Test Driven Development by Example by Kent Beck.  Then I would read Refactoring by Martin Fowler.
                                       




                                      --
                                      Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                                    • Markus Zywitza
                                      And I don t like fish ;-) What s wrong with Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit? -Markus
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 11 8:08 AM
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                                        And I don't like fish ;-)

                                        What's wrong with Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit?

                                        -Markus

                                        On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Aaron Carlson <carlsonad@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > BOOO!! I didn't like Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit. I would
                                        > start with Test Driven Development by Example by Kent Beck. Then I would
                                        > read Refactoring by Martin Fowler.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:51 AM, Markus Zywitza <markus.zywitza@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit.
                                        > >
                                        > > -Markus
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > On 4/11/08, Erik Forbes <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to
                                        > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably
                                        > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning
                                        > TDD?
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo
                                        > <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                        > > > > Who would you argue with? :D
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                        > > > > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served
                                        > me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions
                                        > about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code) than would have
                                        > taken without using TDD.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Regards,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                        > > > > > developer in your company?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --
                                        > > > > Claudio Figueiredo
                                        > > > > jcfigueiredo@...
                                        > > > > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --
                                        > > > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Aaron Carlson
                                      • togakangaroo
                                        Man, being the only developer at my company I ve been mulling that over myself. Finally decided that it would indeed be too time consuming to write unit tests
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 11 10:59 AM
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                                          Man, being the only developer at my company I've been mulling that
                                          over myself. Finally decided that it would indeed be too time
                                          consuming to write unit tests for large poorly written systems done by
                                          my predecessor I will write unit tests for all future development
                                          which is not simple hacks.

                                          I am working with C# / ASP.NET and am using simple NUnit (I have not
                                          had to write any tests specifically for web functionality yet - not
                                          sure what I'm going to do then). I have my project which is in this
                                          case a library for a data access layer and another project in which I
                                          declare all my nunit fixtures and tests.

                                          --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "dzcepheus" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                          > developer in your company?
                                          >
                                        • greglevenhagen
                                          For an online resource in unit testing, not particularly in TDD, the link below provides some unit test patterns. The overall series may be helpful as well.
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 11 6:16 PM
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                                            For an online resource in unit testing, not particularly in TDD, the
                                            link below provides some unit test patterns. The overall series may
                                            be helpful as well.

                                            http://www.codeproject.com/KB/architecture/autp5.aspx

                                            -Greg

                                            --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Forbes" <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to
                                            > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources
                                            (preferably
                                            > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning
                                            > TDD?
                                            >
                                            > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                            > > Who would you argue with? :D
                                            > >
                                            > > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                            > > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has
                                            served me
                                            > > well in one point more then others: It's has made come to
                                            conclusions about
                                            > > my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code) than would
                                            have taken
                                            > > without using TDD.
                                            > >
                                            > > Regards,
                                            > >
                                            > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                            > > > developer in your company?
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --
                                            > > Claudio Figueiredo
                                            > > jcfigueiredo@...
                                            > > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                                            >
                                          • Joakim Sundén
                                            I kept postponing learning and using TDD because I at the time worked with legacy code in a project where unit testing did not exist. Michael Feathers Working
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Apr 19 2:59 AM
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                                              I kept postponing learning and using TDD because I at the time worked with legacy code in a project where unit testing did not exist. Michael Feathers "Working Effectively with Legacy Code" was the eye-opener for me. It is all about TDD and good design and you also get to learn some great techniques for breaking dependencies and making legacy code testable. It is also very inspiring as Feathers describes how to clean up the code, day by day, bit by bit, until you finally one day come to work, expecting to once again sink your hands into "murky slime" but find that the code actually has improved.

                                              /Joakim

                                              11 apr 2008 kl. 05.30 skrev Erik Forbes:

                                              Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                                              Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                                              On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                              Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                              Who would you argue with? :D
                                               
                                              No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                              TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.
                                               
                                              Regards,

                                              On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@gmail. com> wrote:

                                              As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                              developer in your company?




                                              -- 
                                              Claudio Figueiredo
                                              jcfigueiredo@ stormwindproject .org
                                              Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwin dproject. org



                                              -- 
                                              Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!


                                            • Steven Smith
                                              Definitely pick up “Working Effectively with Legacy Code”. I’m 90% done with it and it is awesome. It’s what “Refactoring” should have been, in
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Apr 19 8:17 PM
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                                                Definitely pick up “Working Effectively with Legacy Code”.  I’m 90% done with it and it is awesome.  It’s what “Refactoring” should have been, in that it is easy to read, follow, and by far more practical.  “Refactoring” has its place, but it reads like an encyclopedia, so I’d recommend it *after* Feathers’ book.

                                                 

                                                Steve

                                                 

                                                --

                                                Steven A Smith | ASP.NET MVP | Microsoft Regional Director

                                                President, ASPAlliance LLC | http://aspalliance.com

                                                ssmith@...

                                                 

                                                From: altdotnet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altdotnet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joakim Sundén
                                                Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:59 AM
                                                To: altdotnet@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [altdotnet] Does TDD make sense when you're the only developer?

                                                 

                                                I kept postponing learning and using TDD because I at the time worked with legacy code in a project where unit testing did not exist. Michael Feathers "Working Effectively with Legacy Code" was the eye-opener for me. It is all about TDD and good design and you also get to learn some great techniques for breaking dependencies and making legacy code testable. It is also very inspiring as Feathers describes how to clean up the code, day by day, bit by bit, until you finally one day come to work, expecting to once again sink your hands into "murky slime" but find that the code actually has improved.

                                                 

                                                /Joakim

                                                 

                                                11 apr 2008 kl. 05.30 skrev Erik Forbes:

                                                Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                                                Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                                                On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

                                                 

                                                Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.

                                                Who would you argue with? :D

                                                 

                                                No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.

                                                TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.

                                                 

                                                Regards,

                                                On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                                                As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                                developer in your company?



                                                -- 
                                                Claudio Figueiredo
                                                jcfigueiredo@...
                                                Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org




                                                -- 
                                                Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!

                                                 

                                                 

                                              • Glenn Block
                                                I brought this at the ALT.NET conf. For me the answer is a definite yes. TDD done right ensures that your implementation meets business requirements. Tests are
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Apr 21 4:28 PM
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                                                  I brought this at the ALT.NET conf. For me the answer is a definite yes. TDD done right ensures that your implementation meets business requirements. Tests are a virtual checklist of what needs to be completed. If all the tests pass, then you know you’ve addressed the requirements that you have identified. (that is as long as the tests are correctly implement ted). The other big value I find in TDD is catching bugs BEFORE you check in. That for me is one of its main selling points.

                                                   

                                                  If you are working with a legacy code base, I’d recommend checking out TypeMock which may help you to write tests for the “untestable” areas of the system.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks

                                                  Glenn

                                                   

                                                  From: altdotnet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altdotnet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joakim Sundén
                                                  Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:59 AM
                                                  To: altdotnet@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [altdotnet] Does TDD make sense when you're the only developer?

                                                   

                                                  I kept postponing learning and using TDD because I at the time worked with legacy code in a project where unit testing did not exist. Michael Feathers "Working Effectively with Legacy Code" was the eye-opener for me. It is all about TDD and good design and you also get to learn some great techniques for breaking dependencies and making legacy code testable. It is also very inspiring as Feathers describes how to clean up the code, day by day, bit by bit, until you finally one day come to work, expecting to once again sink your hands into "murky slime" but find that the code actually has improved.

                                                   

                                                  /Joakim

                                                   

                                                  11 apr 2008 kl. 05.30 skrev Erik Forbes:

                                                  Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)

                                                  Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best way to dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources (preferably online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for learning TDD?

                                                  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.

                                                  Who would you argue with? :D

                                                   

                                                  No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.

                                                  TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has served me well in one point more then others: It's has made come to conclusions about my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code)  than would have taken without using TDD.

                                                   

                                                  Regards,

                                                  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:

                                                  As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                                  developer in your company?



                                                  -- 
                                                  Claudio Figueiredo
                                                  jcfigueiredo@...
                                                  Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org




                                                  -- 
                                                  Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                • Sam Gentile
                                                  Echoing what Glenn and others said. Ever since I learned TDD in the late 90 s, I have found myself using it whenever I program especially when I program
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Apr 21 8:11 PM
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                                                    Echoing what Glenn and others said. Ever since I learned TDD in the
                                                    late 90's, I have found myself using it whenever I program especially
                                                    when I program myself. Why? Because it's a design technique and it
                                                    leads me to design whatever I am doing with the emphasis of being
                                                    the "caller" of the code and the "consumer" of the interface. The
                                                    discipline it forces me into results in better quality.

                                                    HTH,
                                                    Sam Gentile


                                                    --- In altdotnet@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Block" <glenn.block@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I brought this at the ALT.NET conf. For me the answer is a definite
                                                    yes. TDD
                                                    > done right ensures that your implementation meets business
                                                    requirements.
                                                    > Tests are a virtual checklist of what needs to be completed. If all
                                                    the
                                                    > > Hehe, I argue with myself all the time... =)
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks for the input guys. Also another question: what's the best
                                                    way to
                                                    > dive in to this sort of practice? Where are the best resources
                                                    (preferably
                                                    > online, but book recommendations would also be appreciated) for
                                                    learning
                                                    > TDD?
                                                    >
                                                    > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Cláudio Figueiredo
                                                    > <jcfigueiredo@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Man, being the 'lone coder' should be boring.
                                                    >
                                                    > Who would you argue with? :D
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > No, seriusly now, I think it's worth it.
                                                    >
                                                    > TDD, despicte all the arguments presented in other threads, has
                                                    served me
                                                    > well in one point more then others: It's has made come to
                                                    conclusions about
                                                    > my design, sooner (and save throwing away some code) than would
                                                    have taken
                                                    > without using TDD.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Regards,
                                                    >
                                                    > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, dzcepheus <erikforbes@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > As the subject asks: does TDD make sense when you're the only
                                                    > developer in your company?
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Claudio Figueiredo
                                                    > jcfigueiredo@...
                                                    > Stormwind Project Commiter - http://www.stormwindproject.org
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Support your local gravity testers -- Skydive!
                                                    >
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