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Re: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?

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  • B Degnan
    I scraped away the original label and checked again. Very clearly both proms read MF1702R date code 7436 See http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG good
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 5, 2013
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      I scraped away the original label and checked again.  Very clearly both proms read

       MF1702R

      date code 7436

      See
      http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG

      good excuse this weekend to make those 1702 prom programmer updates Martin sent.  I forget what is different between the 1702 and 1702a that necessitated the updates to his programmer.

      Bill



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tom at Home <tdurston@...>
      To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Apr 5, 2013 8:16 pm
      Subject: RE: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?



      Hmmmm.  I think the number seen in th photo is not the part number, maybe a lot code, date code or?
      A little digital filtering suggests 4th character from the right seems to not be a 7 as in 1702?
      Looks like an F to me.
       
      Intel’s old package code, “R”, is a LLC package but this is clearly a DIP 24

      From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Degnan
      Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:04 AM
      To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?
       
       
    • mfeberhard
      Those look like 1702 (plain) clones made by the Canadian company, Microsystems International. I believe that Intel was selling naked dies to Microsystems
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 6, 2013
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        Those look like 1702 (plain) clones made by the Canadian company,
        Microsystems International. I believe that Intel was selling naked dies
        to Microsystems International, who packaged them and sold them under
        their own name. I bet if you peeled the label back further, you'd find
        the MI logo.

        Take a look at these chips:
        https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-XdfCubTNJJajVpcEJEQjE2dWs/edit?usp=sha\
        ring
        They are Microsystems 1702's. These are marked "2R" at the end - I bet
        the 2R version came after the R version.

        These chips program just fine with my programmer in the plain 1702 mode,
        assuming you have done the simple mods that I sent to all of my
        customers :-)

        -Martin


        --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:
        >
        > I scraped away the original label and checked again. Very clearly
        both proms read
        >
        > MF1702R
        >
        > date code 7436
        >
        > See
        > http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG
        >
        > good excuse this weekend to make those 1702 prom programmer updates
        Martin sent. I forget what is different between the 1702 and 1702a that
        necessitated the updates to his programmer.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Tom at Home tdurston@...
        > To: altaircomputerclub altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Fri, Apr 5, 2013 8:16 pm
        > Subject: RE: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hmmmm. I think the number seen inth photo is not the part number,
        maybe a lot code, date code or?
        > A little digital filtering suggests 4thcharacter from the right seems
        to not be a 7 as in 1702?
        > Looks like an F to me.
        >
        >
        > Intel’s old package code, “R”,is a LLC package
        but this is clearly a DIP 24
        >
        >
        >
        > From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Degnan
        > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:04AM
        > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Altair Computer Club]1702R ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Is a 1702R ePROM a "non-A" 1702?
        > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/RCA/COSMAC/RCA_GMC-3901803_front.jpg
        > Bill
        >
      • mfeberhard
        The difference is that the 1702 (plain) draws a LOT more current during programming than the 1702A s - the upgrade to my programmer accounts for this extra
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 6, 2013
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          The difference is that the 1702 (plain) draws a LOT more current during programming than the 1702A's - the upgrade to my programmer accounts for this extra current, and guarantees that the data is still read correctly, even at high current.

          The original resistor values for the high-voltage data driver/receiver circuits were copied from an old Intel 1702 programmer - which turned out to be marginal. The new values were calculated based on worst-case specs :-)

          The plain 1702 is actually quite different than the 1702A for programming, though the two are compatible for reading.

          For programming, the 1702A erases to 00, while the 1702 erases to FF. Also, the maximum programming duty cycle for the 1702A is 20%, while it's only 2% for the plain 1702. This means it will take around 20 minutes to program a 1702!

          -Martin

          --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:
          >
          > I scraped away the original label and checked again. Very clearly both proms read
          >
          > MF1702R
          >
          > date code 7436
          >
          > See
          > http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG
          >
          > good excuse this weekend to make those 1702 prom programmer updates Martin sent. I forget what is different between the 1702 and 1702a that necessitated the updates to his programmer.
          >
          > Bill
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Tom at Home <tdurston@...>
          > To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Fri, Apr 5, 2013 8:16 pm
          > Subject: RE: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hmmmm. I think the number seen inth photo is not the part number, maybe a lot code, date code or?
          > A little digital filtering suggests 4thcharacter from the right seems to not be a 7 as in 1702?
          > Looks like an F to me.
          >
          >
          > Intel’s old package code, “R”,is a LLC package but this is clearly a DIP 24
          >
          >
          >
          > From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Degnan
          > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:04AM
          > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Altair Computer Club]1702R ?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Is a 1702R ePROM a "non-A" 1702?
          > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/RCA/COSMAC/RCA_GMC-3901803_front.jpg
          > Bill
          >
        • B Degnan
          Martin, I don t know how (yet) but after doing the mods I no longer get any voltage being sent through the rs232 driver. I need to determine why. All I did
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 6, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Martin,
            I don't know how (yet) but after doing the mods I no longer get any voltage being sent through the rs232 driver.  I need to determine why.  All I did was put in the new resistors and the upgraded program chip.  I intend to disassemble the unit and re-check the solder joints.  They look clean but I must have missed one.  The light is Green otherwise, the checkout procedure voltages are OK.
            bd



            -----Original Message-----
            From: mfeberhard <eberhard@...>
            To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 2013 1:34 pm
            Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?

            The difference is that the 1702 (plain) draws a LOT more current during 
            programming than the 1702A's - the upgrade to my programmer accounts for this 
            extra current, and guarantees that the data is still read correctly, even at 
            high current.
            
            The original resistor values for the high-voltage data driver/receiver circuits 
            were copied from an old Intel 1702 programmer - which turned out to be marginal. 
            The new values were calculated based on worst-case specs :-)
            
            The plain 1702 is actually quite different than the 1702A for programming, 
            though the two are compatible for reading. 
            
            For programming, the 1702A erases to 00, while the 1702 erases to FF. Also, the 
            maximum programming duty cycle for the 1702A is 20%, while it's only 2% for the 
            plain 1702. This means it will take around 20 minutes to program a 1702!
            
            -Martin
            
            
            --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote: > > I scraped away the original label and checked again. Very clearly both proms read > > MF1702R > > date code 7436 > > See > http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG > > good excuse this weekend to make those 1702 prom programmer updates Martin sent. I forget what is different between the 1702 and 1702a that necessitated the updates to his programmer. > > Bill > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom at Home <tdurston@...> > To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Apr 5, 2013 8:16 pm > Subject: RE: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ? > > > > > > Hmmmm. I think the number seen inth photo is not the part number, maybe a lot code, date code or? > A little digital filtering suggests 4thcharacter from the right seems to not be a 7 as in 1702? > Looks like an F to me. > > > Intel’s old package code, “R”,is a LLC package but this is clearly a DIP 24 > > > > From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Degnan > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:04AM > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Altair Computer Club]1702R ? > > > > > > Is a 1702R ePROM a "non-A" 1702? > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/RCA/COSMAC/RCA_GMC-3901803_front.jpg > Bill > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altaircomputerclub/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altaircomputerclub/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: altaircomputerclub-digest@yahoogroups.com altaircomputerclub-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: altaircomputerclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • mfeberhard
            It sounds like the PIC is not running. If you put the old PIC in, does it work?
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 4, 2013
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              It sounds like the PIC is not running. If you put the old PIC in, does it work?

              --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:
              >
              > Martin,
              > I don't know how (yet) but after doing the mods I no longer get any voltage being sent through the rs232 driver. I need to determine why. All I did was put in the new resistors and the upgraded program chip. I intend to disassemble the unit and re-check the solder joints. They look clean but I must have missed one. The light is Green otherwise, the checkout procedure voltages are OK.
              > bd
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: mfeberhard <eberhard@...>
              > To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 2013 1:34 pm
              > Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?
              >
              >
              > The difference is that the 1702 (plain) draws a LOT more current during
              > programming than the 1702A's - the upgrade to my programmer accounts for this
              > extra current, and guarantees that the data is still read correctly, even at
              > high current.
              >
              > The original resistor values for the high-voltage data driver/receiver circuits
              > were copied from an old Intel 1702 programmer - which turned out to be marginal.
              > The new values were calculated based on worst-case specs :-)
              >
              > The plain 1702 is actually quite different than the 1702A for programming,
              > though the two are compatible for reading.
              >
              > For programming, the 1702A erases to 00, while the 1702 erases to FF. Also, the
              > maximum programming duty cycle for the 1702A is 20%, while it's only 2% for the
              > plain 1702. This means it will take around 20 minutes to program a 1702!
              >
              > -Martin
              >
              > --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I scraped away the original label and checked again. Very clearly both proms
              > read
              > >
              > > MF1702R
              > >
              > > date code 7436
              > >
              > > See
              > > http://www.cpu-zone.com/1702/DSCF1888.JPG
              > >
              > > good excuse this weekend to make those 1702 prom programmer updates Martin
              > sent. I forget what is different between the 1702 and 1702a that necessitated
              > the updates to his programmer.
              > >
              > > Bill
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Tom at Home <tdurston@>
              > > To: altaircomputerclub <altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Fri, Apr 5, 2013 8:16 pm
              > > Subject: RE: [Altair Computer Club] 1702R ?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hmmmm. I think the number seen inth photo is not the part number, maybe a lot
              > code, date code or?
              > > A little digital filtering suggests 4thcharacter from the right seems to not
              > be a 7 as in 1702?
              > > Looks like an F to me.
              > >
              > >
              > > Intel’s old package code, “R”,is a LLC package but this is clearly a DIP
              > 24
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of B Degnan
              > > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:04AM
              > > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club]1702R ?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Is a 1702R ePROM a "non-A" 1702?
              > > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/RCA/COSMAC/RCA_GMC-3901803_front.jpg
              > > Bill
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
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