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[Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions??

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  • wtsnet
    I m faced with similar issues. I have five or more systems to sell on my Virtual Altair 8800 For Sale site http://tom12.tech.officelive.com/. My questions are:
    Message 1 of 36 , Apr 7 9:38 AM
      I'm faced with similar issues. I have five or more systems to sell on my
      Virtual Altair 8800 For Sale site http://tom12.tech.officelive.com/. My
      questions are:

      1) What is a system worth?
      2) Who has the deep pockets to purchase and maintain a system?
      3) What Altair technology should be preserved?
      4) How much work/cost is it worth to restore a system

      Your 8800b system has great value because it has a front panel, working
      drives, CRT, and printer. A Turnkey board would be a great enhancement
      because it allows for a full 64K system. I am a great fan of the Turnkey
      board. A full 64K of RAM is a feature that is rare for S-100 systems.

      >I do have software, no accounting though.

      I would like to compare software libraries with others in the group and
      assemble more than one copy of surviving software titles. I have the
      accounting software and manuals. I would hope that the accounting
      software survives. The combination of an Altair and the original
      Peachtree was also a first and marks the
      transition of Small Business Computing to the desktop. This is an
      Altair first that gets little credit.

      > I do not have manuals for the terminal or the printers which are Epson
      wide carriage printers and one daisy wheel printer.

      List the model numbers. Perhaps a PDF of the manuals can be located on
      the net. Do you have a Centronics interface & cables? What is the model
      of the daisy wheel printer? A Qume printer with a MITS logo would be a
      rare find. Qume ribbons are getting hard to find. What value does a
      working printer add to an Altair system?

      >The Atache units all have turnkey boards with basic on them

      I like my Attache, but wonder about its value and place in history. Do
      you have ROM BASIC in your Attache units. The ROM BASIC board is very
      collectible and I estimate the value is at least $500.
      Is BASIC on ROM another Altair first?

      >I have used Ebay and Craigs list for some items I wanted to sell
      without much success ...

      >... The ideal would be for a museum or university have this equipment.

      Hopefully someone in the group has some ideas. Perhaps there some
      corporate sponsors out there. Does Motorola have a 680 or does Sage want
      a Peachtree system?


      Tom




      --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, RMA <robertad@...> wrote:
      >
      > The unit in the rack-mounted does not have a Turnkey board. I start it
      up using a floppy disk. The Atache units all have turnkey boards with
      basic on them.
      > I do have software, no accounting though. I do not have manuals for
      the terminal or the printers which are Epson wide carriage printers and
      one daisy wheel printer. I have used Ebay and Craigs list for some
      items I wanted to sell without much success. I will let this site speak
      for itself and if I sell the items that will be ok, if not it will be
      part of my children's inherence. My goal is to maintain the history of
      this equipment as it is something that needs to be preserved. The ideal
      would be for a museum or university have this equipment. Thanks Tom for
      your note and ideas. Bob
      > On Apr 6, 2010, at 8:08 AM, wtsnet wrote:
      >
      > > Bill gives excellent advice. Let the pictures tell the story and the
      > > equipment will sell itself. I hope more people photograph their
      > > equipment. Robert has items that I may never own. Now more people
      can
      > > see Altair equipment and Robert retains a virtual copy of the
      equipment
      > > after it is sold.
      > >
      > > I like to see the descriptions change from "items" and "lots" to
      > > systems. There may me too much equipment for a single buyer. Buyers
      may
      > > need some education about the value and history of the hardware.
      > >
      > > I see a terminal, mainframe, 3202, and rack-mount case. Does the
      > > mainframe have a Turnkey board and 64K? I think you have printers
      too.
      > > That one system is the equivalent of a MITS 300/25. That one system
      runs
      > > most any MITS floppy software plus CP/M.
      > >
      > > What value does the group estimate for a working 64K Altair floppy
      disk
      > > system with BASIC, DOS, Fortran, CP/M, Original Peachtree
      Accounting,
      > > memory test, fast copy, and a box of blank diskettes? Terminal
      manuals
      > > and a printer might complete the set. What is the importance of
      > > preserving a system that can not only run MITS software, but can
      copy
      > > software and make new diskettes?
      > >
      > > I'll start the estimate for Roberts system at $2k-$3K for just the
      > > floppy drives. You may get lucky on Ebay, but check availability and
      > > price for Pertec floppy drives from any source.
      > >
      > > A custom website does not prohibit someone from selling on Ebay at a
      > > later time. I added a link to http://www.robertsaltaircomputers.com/
      on
      > > my Altair 8800 For Sale site http://tom12.tech.officelive.com/
      > >
      > > Tom
      > >
      > > --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, billdeg@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Thanks.
      > >
      > > > I spoke with Robert a few years ago about this collection.
      > > >
      > > > My suggestion - I am a web designer, but despite that I say keep
      it
      > > simple. Focus on the photography and the rest will take care of
      itself.
      > > There should be a pattern to the pictures, and the structure of the
      > > pages should be predictable and navigable. The rest is just details.
      > > >
      > > > Bill
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: steve alltare@
      > > > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 11:58 pm
      > > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still
      > > working on it. Any suggestions??
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Bill,
      > > >
      > > > It's at
      > > > http://www.robertsaltaircomputers.com/index.html
      > > >
      > > > Steve
      > > > ===============================
      > > >
      > > > --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, billdeg@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > what is the URL
      > > > ...
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • W Tom
      Bill, I could add a short to this board if it would help with enjoyment :) http://tom12.tech.officelive.com/CompuProSystemSupport1A02799A.aspx I love boards
      Message 36 of 36 , Apr 13 11:30 AM
        Bill,

        I could add a short to this board if it would help with enjoyment :)

        http://tom12.tech.officelive.com/CompuProSystemSupport1A02799A.aspx

        I love boards where everything is labeled and all chips have sockets.


        Jack,

        I'm embarrassed to have toasted a 680, but glad Grant cloned it first. At least I learned one cause of 680 board failure. The length of the spacer for add-on boards is important.

        I hope Grant has made progress on another production run of the add-on board. I don't trust my original boards. All but one are Rev 0 and I have no clue what MITS fixed for REV 1. Grant found many of the sockets and chips were bad because something had damaged to metal on the pins and sockets. Replacement RAM chips remain expensive. I think 680 memory is a case where newer may be better than original.

        Regards,

        Tom

        --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, billdeg@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Just to relate...My System Support 1 is toast. After chopping up traces that lead to the 7912 in position U2, the tant caps nearby, etc. I still could not find the source of the problem. The manual says that these tant caps are supposed to be 6.8uf 35v tant caps, but when I check the actual caps on the board they're all marked +1.5 25V. I was told that either will work.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jack Rubin <jack.rubin@...>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 12:43 pm
        > Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions??
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ...and I'm still hoping Godbout will continue production of the System Support 1! :>)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: "billdeg@..." <billdeg@...>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 11:25:03 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions??
        >
        >
        >
        > Jack,
        > I am still hoping Shockley Electronics or someone will produce a kit.
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jack Rubin <jack.rubin@ameritec h.net>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 12:13 pm
        > Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > I'm still looking for a RAM card for my 680 - I'm interested if the board itself isn't toasted.
        >
        > Jack
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: W Tom <yahoo@loslunasnm. net>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 11:05:29 AM
        > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        >
        >
        >
        > I have a 680 with too short board spacers. The memory board was shorted by the crystal below. I also plugged in the power connector one pin off. This Altair should provide great fun for someone. The question is not what chips are bad, but maybe what chips survived.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > --- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, billdeg@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > You could always short something out before you mail it, tell the person they have guess what it is, ha ha.
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: W Tom <yahoo@>
        > > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 10:58 am
        > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > but $10,000 is too steep unless there's really something
        > > extraordinary about it.
        > > Some people think being the first makes the Altair 8800 extraordinary. I think
        > > 10,000 is too much for a mainframe, but the person that took my advice and
        > > sked for "a lot" appreciated the $10,035 bid. Maybe the #2 bidder got a better
        > > rice on a later sale. I think the $10K auction had the effect of increasing the
        > > ltair supply.
        > > >The extra stuff does add to the price
        > > I hope so. As a stuff writer, I hope software adds some value :)
        > > >Many people buy Altairs for the pleasure of working on them, a
        > > complete working system is no fun!
        > > Some people bought Altairs run programs and don't find working on them fun. I'm
        > > tarting to feel like I may be cheating people out of the joy of repair by
        > > rying to fix my hardware.
        > >
        > > om
        > >
        > > -- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, billdeg@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > The typical sales price for an Altair on Ebay is less than $3000, many claim
        > > hat they work/close to working. The extra stuff does add to the price, but
        > > 10,000 is too steep unless there's really something extraordinary about it.
        > > any people buy Altairs for the pleasure of working on them, a complete working
        > > ystem is no fun!
        > >
        > > In my opinion.
        > >
        > >
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: W Tom <yahoo@>
        > > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 12:12 pm
        > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it.
        > > ny suggestions? ?
        > >
        > >
        > > The record is around $10,000 for an 8800 Mainframe. I assume you
        > > overed your costs, but were generous with your time. I believe you have
        > > uch better than average skills and part of your compensation was the
        > > njoyment of the technical challenge. I'm guessing you may have sold
        > > he Altair to make space for your other projects and not to make a
        > > rofit.
        > > Given the time and skill required to build your system, was $6,500 a
        > > ow price? Can you speak to the difficulty of finding parts and the time
        > > equired to restore a system? I'm thinking the price was a bargain and
        > > ou saved someone a lot of time and trouble. How much do you think
        > > upplying software added to the system value?
        > > Thanks for providing the world with a working system.
        > > Tom
        > >
        > > -- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, Craig Landrum <craigl@>
        > > rote:
        > >
        > > > What value does the group estimate for a working 64K Altair floppy
        > > isk
        > > > system with BASIC, DOS, Fortran, CP/M, Original Peachtree
        > > ccounting,
        > > > memory test, fast copy, and a box of blank diskettes? Terminal
        > > anuals
        > > > and a printer might complete the set. What is the importance of
        > > > preserving a system that can not only run MITS software, but can
        > > opy
        > > > software and make new diskettes?
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The complete system I sold a few years ago went for $6500 and was an
        > > original 8800 with floppy disk controllers, 64K (4 static boards), an
        > > SIOC and SIO2 (installed and working), a printer board (working),
        > > ASIC,
        > > CP/M, Altair DOS (all bootable), all original doc. Also came with a
        > > Wyse dumb terminal for everyday use and a working ASR-33. Could use
        > > he
        > > front panel switches to boot from the SIOC (ASR) or the Wyse (SIO2).
        > > System included dual 8-inch MITs floppy drives (working). I included a
        > > centronics printer (non-MITs but working).
        > >
        > > Several spare boards were included along with complete doc and backup
        > > isks.
        > > Also included PROM board with disk head exerciser.
        > >
        > > --
        > > Craig Landrum
        > > Chief Technical Officer
        > > mindwrap, inc.
        > > Phone: (540) 675-3015 x 229
        > > Fax: (540) 675-3130
        > > email: craigl@
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------ --------- --------- -----
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > Individual Email | Traditional
        > > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------ --------- --------- -----
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > Individual Email | Traditional
        > > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Jack,
        > I am still hoping Shockley Electronics or someone will produce a kit.
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jack Rubin <jack.rubin@ameritec h.net>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 12:13 pm
        > Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > I'm still looking for a RAM card for my 680 - I'm interested if the board itself isn't toasted.
        >
        > Jack
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: W Tom <yahoo@loslunasnm. net>
        > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 11:05:29 AM
        > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        >
        >
        >
        > I have a 680 with too short board spacers. The memory board was shorted by the crystal below. I also plugged in the power connector one pin off. This Altair should provide great fun for someone. The question is not what chips are bad, but maybe what chips survived.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > --- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, billdeg@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > You could always short something out before you mail it, tell the person they have guess what it is, ha ha.
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: W Tom <yahoo@>
        > > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 10:58 am
        > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it. Any suggestions? ?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > but $10,000 is too steep unless there's really something
        > > extraordinary about it.
        > > Some people think being the first makes the Altair 8800 extraordinary. I think
        > > 10,000 is too much for a mainframe, but the person that took my advice and
        > > sked for "a lot" appreciated the $10,035 bid. Maybe the #2 bidder got a better
        > > rice on a later sale. I think the $10K auction had the effect of increasing the
        > > ltair supply.
        > > >The extra stuff does add to the price
        > > I hope so. As a stuff writer, I hope software adds some value :)
        > > >Many people buy Altairs for the pleasure of working on them, a
        > > complete working system is no fun!
        > > Some people bought Altairs run programs and don't find working on them fun. I'm
        > > tarting to feel like I may be cheating people out of the joy of repair by
        > > rying to fix my hardware.
        > >
        > > om
        > >
        > > -- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, billdeg@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > The typical sales price for an Altair on Ebay is less than $3000, many claim
        > > hat they work/close to working. The extra stuff does add to the price, but
        > > 10,000 is too steep unless there's really something extraordinary about it.
        > > any people buy Altairs for the pleasure of working on them, a complete working
        > > ystem is no fun!
        > >
        > > In my opinion.
        > >
        > >
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: W Tom <yahoo@>
        > > To: altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 12:12 pm
        > > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Re:Just put up this site, still working on it.
        > > ny suggestions? ?
        > >
        > >
        > > The record is around $10,000 for an 8800 Mainframe. I assume you
        > > overed your costs, but were generous with your time. I believe you have
        > > uch better than average skills and part of your compensation was the
        > > njoyment of the technical challenge. I'm guessing you may have sold
        > > he Altair to make space for your other projects and not to make a
        > > rofit.
        > > Given the time and skill required to build your system, was $6,500 a
        > > ow price? Can you speak to the difficulty of finding parts and the time
        > > equired to restore a system? I'm thinking the price was a bargain and
        > > ou saved someone a lot of time and trouble. How much do you think
        > > upplying software added to the system value?
        > > Thanks for providing the world with a working system.
        > > Tom
        > >
        > > -- In altaircomputerclub@ yahoogroups. com, Craig Landrum <craigl@>
        > > rote:
        > >
        > > > What value does the group estimate for a working 64K Altair floppy
        > > isk
        > > > system with BASIC, DOS, Fortran, CP/M, Original Peachtree
        > > ccounting,
        > > > memory test, fast copy, and a box of blank diskettes? Terminal
        > > anuals
        > > > and a printer might complete the set. What is the importance of
        > > > preserving a system that can not only run MITS software, but can
        > > opy
        > > > software and make new diskettes?
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The complete system I sold a few years ago went for $6500 and was an
        > > original 8800 with floppy disk controllers, 64K (4 static boards), an
        > > SIOC and SIO2 (installed and working), a printer board (working),
        > > ASIC,
        > > CP/M, Altair DOS (all bootable), all original doc. Also came with a
        > > Wyse dumb terminal for everyday use and a working ASR-33. Could use
        > > he
        > > front panel switches to boot from the SIOC (ASR) or the Wyse (SIO2).
        > > System included dual 8-inch MITs floppy drives (working). I included a
        > > centronics printer (non-MITs but working).
        > >
        > > Several spare boards were included along with complete doc and backup
        > > isks.
        > > Also included PROM board with disk head exerciser.
        > >
        > > --
        > > Craig Landrum
        > > Chief Technical Officer
        > > mindwrap, inc.
        > > Phone: (540) 675-3015 x 229
        > > Fax: (540) 675-3130
        > > email: craigl@
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------ --------- --------- -----
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > Individual Email | Traditional
        > > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------ --------- --------- -----
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > Individual Email | Traditional
        > > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
        > >
        >
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