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Altair 680 CSAVE Problems!@ : (

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  • Grant Stockly
    I m having a ton of trouble saving a program on a cassette tape using Altair 680 basic. Was there a KCACR basic made without the CSAVE command? My basic
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
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      I'm having a ton of trouble saving a program on a cassette tape using Altair 680 basic.  Was there a KCACR basic made without the CSAVE command?  My basic appears to have a CSAVE command, but it won't accept the name!!!!!  : (

      I'm sending this to two groups.  I've been at this problem for hours now...  : (

      I'll post a transcript below.  Let me know what I'm doing wrong!  : (

      --------------------
      .J FD00 (cassette bootstrap rom address)
      (basic loading)
      (basic loaded)
      .J 0000 (run basic...)
      MEMORY SIZE?
      TERMINAL WIDTH? 80
      WANT SIN-COS-TAN-ATN? YES

      9604 BYTES FREE

      MITS ALTAIR 680 BASIC VERSION 1.1 REV 3.2
      --KCACR--
      COPYRIGHT 1976 BY MITS INC.

      OK
      10 PRINT "HELLO"
      20 GOTO 10
      CSAVE A

      ?TM ERROR
      OK
      --------------------

      TM is a type mismatch error.  SM is for a command it doesn't understand.  Watch...
      --------------------
      CSAVE A
      ?TM ERROR
      OK

      CSAVE
      ?SN ERROR
      OK

      AHHHH!
      ?SN ERROR
      OK

      AHHHH! A
      ?SN ERROR
      OK
      --------------------

      Am I wrong assuming that because it gives me a TM error instead of SN that it is "trying" to work?  I get the same things for CLOAD...  How in the world are you supposed to save something to tape!  : (

      If I have the wrong version of basic, anyone have the right one?  What will it take for me to get a copy!  : )  (first smile in this e-mail...  ; )  )

      Thanks,
      Grant
    • H.E.Robert
      Grant, Try putting the filename in double quotes, CSAVE A , as A is an integer variable without quotes, and with , is interpreted as an ASCII string?? Just
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
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        Grant,

         

        Try putting the filename in double quotes,  CSAVE “A”, as A is an integer variable without quotes, and “with”, is interpreted

        as an ASCII string?? 

         

        Just Bob!

         


        From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Stockly
        Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 4:12 AM
        To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com ; cctalk@...
        Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Altair 680 CSAVE Problems!@ : (

         

        I'm having a ton of trouble saving a program on a cassette tape using Altair 680 basic.  Was there a KCACR basic made without the CSAVE command?  My basic appears to have a CSAVE command, but it won't accept the name!!!!!  : (

        I'm sending this to two groups.  I've been at this problem for hours now...  : (

        I'll post a transcript below.  Let me know what I'm doing wrong!  : (

        --------------------
        .J FD00 (cassette bootstrap rom address)
        (basic loading)
        (basic loaded)
        .J 0000 (run basic...)
        MEMORY SIZE?
        TERMINAL WIDTH? 80
        WANT SIN-COS-TAN-ATN? YES

        9604 BYTES FREE

        MITS ALTAIR 680 BASIC VERSION 1.1 REV 3.2
        --KCACR--
        COPYRIGHT 1976 BY MITS INC.

        OK
        10 PRINT "HELLO"
        20 GOTO 10
        CSAVE A

        ?TM ERROR
        OK
        --------------------

        TM is a type mismatch error.  SM is for a command it doesn't understand.  Watch...
        --------------------
        CSAVE A
        ?TM ERROR
        OK

        CSAVE
        ?SN ERROR
        OK

        AHHHH!
        ?SN ERROR
        OK

        AHHHH! A
        ?SN ERROR
        OK
        --------------------

        Am I wrong assuming that because it gives me a TM error instead of SN that it is "trying" to work?  I get the same things for CLOAD...  How in the world are you supposed to save something to tape!  : (

        If I have the wrong version of basic, anyone have the right one?  What will it take for me to get a copy!  : )  (first smile in this e-mail...  ; )  )

        Thanks,
        Grant

      • Steve
        Yeah, CSAVE A should work. Unlike the MSBASIC, PC BASIC, GW BASIC, and other BASICs that came later for the IBM PC, Altair BASIC wasn t finicky about spaces
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
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          Yeah, CSAVE"A" should work.

          Unlike the MSBASIC, PC BASIC, GW BASIC, and other BASICs that came
          later for the IBM PC, Altair BASIC wasn't finicky about spaces in
          commands, so it would treat these the same:
          CSAVE"A"
          CSAVE "A"

          I think the syntax for saving an ASCII file to tape is
          CSAVE"filename",A .

          It's a little trickier to save an ASCII file to disk. You must
          always give the drive number when using the ASCII option, such as
          SAVE"A",1,A

          The complete syntax for the SAVE (to DISK) command is
          SAVE"filename"[[,disk number],A]

          steve
          ========================

          --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, "H.E.Robert" <ueoguy@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Grant,
          >
          >
          >
          > Try putting the filename in double quotes, CSAVE "A", as A is an
          integer
          > variable without quotes, and "with", is interpreted
          >
          > as an ASCII string??
          >
          >
          >
          > Just Bob!
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grant
          Stockly
          > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 4:12 AM
          > To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com; cctalk@...
          > Subject: [Altair Computer Club] Altair 680 CSAVE Problems!@ : (
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm having a ton of trouble saving a program on a cassette tape
          using Altair
          > 680 basic. Was there a KCACR basic made without the CSAVE
          command? My
          > basic appears to have a CSAVE command, but it won't accept the
          name!!!!! :
          > (
          >
          > I'm sending this to two groups. I've been at this problem for
          hours now...
          > : (
          >
          > I'll post a transcript below. Let me know what I'm doing wrong! :
          (
          >
          > --------------------
          > .J FD00 (cassette bootstrap rom address)
          > (basic loading)
          > (basic loaded)
          > .J 0000 (run basic...)
          > MEMORY SIZE?
          > TERMINAL WIDTH? 80
          > WANT SIN-COS-TAN-ATN? YES
          >
          > 9604 BYTES FREE
          >
          > MITS ALTAIR 680 BASIC VERSION 1.1 REV 3.2
          > --KCACR--
          > COPYRIGHT 1976 BY MITS INC.
          >
          > OK
          > 10 PRINT "HELLO"
          > 20 GOTO 10
          > CSAVE A
          >
          > ?TM ERROR
          > OK
          > --------------------
          >
          > TM is a type mismatch error. SM is for a command it doesn't
          understand.
          > Watch...
          > --------------------
          > CSAVE A
          > ?TM ERROR
          > OK
          >
          > CSAVE
          > ?SN ERROR
          > OK
          >
          > AHHHH!
          > ?SN ERROR
          > OK
          >
          > AHHHH! A
          > ?SN ERROR
          > OK
          > --------------------
          >
          > Am I wrong assuming that because it gives me a TM error instead of
          SN that
          > it is "trying" to work? I get the same things for CLOAD... How in
          the
          > world are you supposed to save something to tape! : (
          >
          > If I have the wrong version of basic, anyone have the right one?
          What will
          > it take for me to get a copy! : ) (first smile in this e-
          mail... ; ) )
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Grant
          >
        • Grant Stockly
          ... CSAVE A worked guys... I was going by the file MITS_Altair_680b_BASIC_Manual.pdf for the syntax on CSAVE A . ; ) Sure is fun playing with these old
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
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            >Yeah, CSAVE"A" should work.
            >
            >Unlike the MSBASIC, PC BASIC, GW BASIC, and other BASICs that came
            >later for the IBM PC, Altair BASIC wasn't finicky about spaces in
            >commands, so it would treat these the same:
            >CSAVE"A"
            >CSAVE "A"


            CSAVE"A" worked guys... I was going by the file
            "MITS_Altair_680b_BASIC_Manual.pdf" for the syntax on "CSAVE A". ; )

            Sure is fun playing with these old things. : )

            Grant
          • Steve
            Sometimes you gotta read those manuals between the lines. It may help you to know that 680 BASIC is essentially the same as Altair 8800 8K BASIC, rev 3. All
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
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              Sometimes you gotta read those manuals between the lines. It may
              help you to know that 680 BASIC is essentially the same as Altair
              8800 8K BASIC, rev 3.

              All BASICs were backward compatable to a great extent. For
              example, Altair disk BASIC and Hard Disk BASIC (and even IBM PC
              BASIC) retained the CSAVE and CLOAD commands. Sometimes, a better
              description of a command might be found in the manual for another
              version of BASIC.

              Steve
              =============================

              --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, Grant Stockly <grant@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > >Yeah, CSAVE"A" should work.
              > >
              > >Unlike the MSBASIC, PC BASIC, GW BASIC, and other BASICs that came
              > >later for the IBM PC, Altair BASIC wasn't finicky about spaces in
              > >commands, so it would treat these the same:
              > >CSAVE"A"
              > >CSAVE "A"
              >
              >
              > CSAVE"A" worked guys... I was going by the file
              > "MITS_Altair_680b_BASIC_Manual.pdf" for the syntax on "CSAVE
              A". ; )
              >
              > Sure is fun playing with these old things. : )
              >
              > Grant
              >
            • Grant Stockly
              So how do you paper tape punch a basic program? Do you just switch output to the punch and type LIST? Grant
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
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                So how do you paper tape punch a basic program? Do you just switch output
                to the punch and type LIST?

                Grant

                At 02:49 PM 1/2/2007, you wrote:

                >Sometimes you gotta read those manuals between the lines. It may
                >help you to know that 680 BASIC is essentially the same as Altair
                >8800 8K BASIC, rev 3.
              • Tom Sanderson
                The change to CSAVE syntax is described in an article titled Software Tidbits by Mark Chamberlin. See Computer Notes, April 1977, page three, 2. Using CSAVE
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
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                  The change to CSAVE syntax is described in an article titled "Software
                  Tidbits" by Mark Chamberlin. See Computer Notes, April 1977, page
                  three, 2. Using CSAVE and CLOAD in 8800 BASIC 4.0.

                  It looks the the change was made in Altair 8800 BASIC 4.0. The same
                  change appears to be in:

                  MITS ALTAIR 680 BASIC VERSION 1.1 REV 3.2
                  --KCACR--
                  COPYRIGHT 1976 BY MITS INC



                  --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alltare@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Sometimes you gotta read those manuals between the lines. It may
                  > help you to know that 680 BASIC is essentially the same as Altair
                  > 8800 8K BASIC, rev 3.
                  >
                  > All BASICs were backward compatable to a great extent. For
                  > example, Altair disk BASIC and Hard Disk BASIC (and even IBM PC
                  > BASIC) retained the CSAVE and CLOAD commands. Sometimes, a better
                  > description of a command might be found in the manual for another
                  > version of BASIC.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  > =============================
                  >
                  > --- In altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com, Grant Stockly <grant@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >Yeah, CSAVE"A" should work.
                  > > >
                  > > >Unlike the MSBASIC, PC BASIC, GW BASIC, and other BASICs that came
                  > > >later for the IBM PC, Altair BASIC wasn't finicky about spaces in
                  > > >commands, so it would treat these the same:
                  > > >CSAVE"A"
                  > > >CSAVE "A"
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > CSAVE"A" worked guys... I was going by the file
                  > > "MITS_Altair_680b_BASIC_Manual.pdf" for the syntax on "CSAVE
                  > A". ; )
                  > >
                  > > Sure is fun playing with these old things. : )
                  > >
                  > > Grant
                  > >
                  >
                • H.E.Robert
                  Grant, Well, pretty much! Most people using a 33ASR or 35ASR would turn the punch on, and create a leader using rubout s or null s (CTRL P) or the hereis
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
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                    Grant,

                    Well, pretty much! Most people using a 33ASR or 35ASR would turn the punch
                    on, and create a leader using rubout's or null's (CTRL P) or the "hereis"
                    key on a machine with an unprogrammed answerback drum, then switch off
                    The punch, type LIST, turn the punch on, and hit return.

                    You could write a small basic program to do everything if your TTY has the
                    proper stunt box levers/options for device control of the punch and reader,
                    more common on the 35's than the 33's however.

                    The nulls give you room to write on the tape, as only the feed holes are
                    punched, whereas the rubout punches all data holes, but both are ignored on
                    input to Altair BASIC.

                    I have no knowledge with regards to the Altair High Speed Punch and Reader,
                    maybe Steve remembers using one.

                    Just Bob!

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grant Stockly
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:08 PM
                    To: altaircomputerclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Altair Computer Club] Altair 680 CSAVE Problems!@ : (

                    So how do you paper tape punch a basic program? Do you just switch output
                    to the punch and type LIST?

                    Grant

                    At 02:49 PM 1/2/2007, you wrote:

                    >Sometimes you gotta read those manuals between the lines. It may
                    >help you to know that 680 BASIC is essentially the same as Altair
                    >8800 8K BASIC, rev 3.




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