Re: [alt-ed-india] Conditioning
- The fundemental difference between the western mind set and rural mind set is in the in which intuition and reason is used. Their respective relation or the way they deal with the unknown.Reasoning mind deals with the known or the knowable where as the intuitive mind is comfortable with the unknown.The educated people in the nonwestern world also has western mind set.That is what education has ultimately acheived.Monoculturisation began with the introduction of modern education.There are certain seemingly strange paradoxes in these two ways.Intuitive knowledge deals with concrete experience and the modern reason knowledge deals with lots of abstraction.jinan----- Original Message -----From: Clive ElwellSent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:32 AMSubject: Re: [alt-ed-india] ConditioningI find it hard to reply to Jinan's and Satish's comments about rural/tribal people. I have very little experience in this, and perhaps I should not be writing at all. However I have some experience, and I can think of some individuals who were as you describe - simple, open, direct, perhaps living more in the heart and from intuition. But I cannot bring myself to say they were unconditioned. Conditioning goes deeper that this, it is a process that has been going on in human consciousness for tens of thousands of years. And I have to say that I read stories that reveal that village people can be superstitious, intolerant to a high degree, caught up in tradition - but perhaps you would not regard this an indication of conditioning?Can we say that rural people are LESS conditioned that "westernised" people? That is a difficult question. But I wonder if conditioning, as I understand it, has degrees? Is it a measurable quality? Or does it just exist - or not exist?RegardsClive----- Original Message -----From: Satish NatarajanSent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:10 AMSubject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Conditioning
I agree with you and your concern about the conditioning. I think I also understand what Jinan means. He does not mean that he wants to replace one conditioning with another. I have observed and so have many that people in the rural areas live naturally and are not really conditioned. Because of our conditioning we think that they are also conditioned. But their life is so natural that when you go to them and if you are non-resisting and open, it is very easy to integrate with them. That integration does not mean that you have to drop any of your natural tendencies, you only have drop your conditioned tendencies.
The better way of putting it is they live from the heart than from the head. We are so conditioned to live our life using the head but it has its own limitations. They live from the heart. They live on intuition and that is what Jinan has felt while living with them. To make it more simple we have been conditioned to live from the head whereas life should be lived from the heart. Their way of life reflects that and once you live with them you realise that there is something which strikes a chord in you and that is what is flowering. It allows our heart to open up.
Children by nature live from the heart, live a life of intuition. The way of life in the rural areas does not camoflauge that hence you find that even adults are more like children, innocent, full of life and not bored.
Jinan, I hope I have understood what you meant by conditioning.
Clive Elwell <jevans@...> wrote:Dear Jinan,You wrote:"As you probably know, my last 17 years were spent trying to understand the colonizing and conditioning effect of western education on Indians"Actually, I didn't know, because prior to now I realise that I"ve heard "what I wanted to hear" in your writing. It's been a very interesting learning for me to realise that.I should explain. When you talked of seeing your conditioning, I jumped to the conclusion that you were talking about the total conditioning process of human consciousness. You were actually talking about a part of conditioning, weren't you? "the colonizing and conditioning effect of western education on Indians".Correct me if I'm wrong. And your concern - you may not agree with this - has been to replace one set of conditioning (the western) with another set (which one might call rural indiginous) which you feel to be superior. Please understand there is no criticism implied in what I say; I am just trying to clarify. The mistake has been mine. Also I want to make it clear that I am not taking any sides whatsoever here, supporting one conditioning over another. My concern in education has been to understand the limitations of all conditioning.When you describe your child exploring the world, using her senses, truely learning, wasn't it impressive because it was not done according to any conditioning. Was it? It was not learning from any particular point of view, it was learning from a mind that was completely uncluttered, was it not?I am interested to get your feedback on this.I will try to respond to your ideas of a model learning Centre later. Certainly the heart of the issue is the issue of learning.Kind RegardsClive
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