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Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

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  • yp
    I ve been looking at web pages on Waldorf curriculum and most of them are silent on what the medium of ideal instruction is. They often refer to foreign
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 27, 2011
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      I've been looking at web pages on Waldorf curriculum and most of them are silent on what the medium of ideal instruction is.

      They often refer to "foreign languages" -- meaning there could be an assumption that the basic medium of instruction is English or the child's mother tongue.

      But I doubt Rudolf Steiner would recommend teaching in English medium if a Waldorf school was started in a non-Anglophone country, based on all the other child-centric principles of Waldorf.

      Considering this, there should be some debate, I think, on what should be the ideal medium of instructions if Waldorf schools happen to start in a country like India, because we already have a few now.

      India is a very diverse country, and drawing upon its diversity of languages and surroundings is very important for those doing new educational experiments in India. I hope English is not just being picked up by default because those who are experimenting feel comfortable with it.

      Yogesh
    • Hema
      Hello Yogesh, We have been using the Waldorf curriculum to homeschool our two children for the last four years. English is the language that we re most
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 28, 2011
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        Hello Yogesh,
        We have been using the Waldorf curriculum to homeschool our two children for the last four years. English is the language that we're most comfortable in and hence that's our medium of instruction. Because I'm fairly well-versed in Waldorf method, I teach Hindi as well Waldorf style.I have also used Rishi Vally school's Hindi curriculum
        In Germany Waldorf schools use German as the medium of instruction, Its Afrikaans in South Africa, French in France. English is the foreign language there.
        Many of the languages I mentioned above have vast treasure troves of literature for children of all ages. India is unique in that we have very little literature available for our children in our national language. I end up using translations of English works- Ruskin Bond, Harry Potter etc.
        I'm sure the regional languages have more literature available for children. I don't see why Waldorf should not work in any of our languages, provided there's an eager-beaver willing to put in the effort of first understanding how and why Waldorf works and then applying that to the language of his choice.

        Regards,

        Hema Gopinathan

        --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, "yp" <yogesh.pathak@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've been looking at web pages on Waldorf curriculum and most of them are silent on what the medium of ideal instruction is.
        >
        > They often refer to "foreign languages" -- meaning there could be an assumption that the basic medium of instruction is English or the child's mother tongue.
        >
        > But I doubt Rudolf Steiner would recommend teaching in English medium if a Waldorf school was started in a non-Anglophone country, based on all the other child-centric principles of Waldorf.
        >
        > Considering this, there should be some debate, I think, on what should be the ideal medium of instructions if Waldorf schools happen to start in a country like India, because we already have a few now.
        >
        > India is a very diverse country, and drawing upon its diversity of languages and surroundings is very important for those doing new educational experiments in India. I hope English is not just being picked up by default because those who are experimenting feel comfortable with it.
        >
        > Yogesh
        >
      • Aravinda
        Why not a multilingual medium of instruction?  Most families attending would be multilingual.  A school set-up should strive to facilitate communication in
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 28, 2011
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          Why not a multilingual medium of instruction?  Most families attending would be multilingual.  A school set-up should strive to facilitate communication in any language the child uses.

          Aravinda

        • Soma Paul
          Dear Hema I was following your discussions. When you discuss about medium of instruction, it is important to understand which are the factors that motivates us
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 28, 2011
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            Dear Hema

            I was following your discussions. When you discuss about medium of instruction, it is important to understand which are the factors that motivates us to take a decision on this issue? Is it the availability of stories in that language? All Indian languages have storehouse of small stories, adventure stories, rhymes. One can put in an effort to make them available to the mass in a more organized fashion than it is now.  Recently I found some effort has been really going in making Bengali age-old short children stories being presented in a more picturesque fashion. Many revered Bengali writers, poets and novelists are also writing for children which is really a very encouraging gesture.

            I feel availability of stories cannot be a motivation for us to determine medium of instructions.

            soma

            On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Hema <hgopinathan@...> wrote:
             

            Hello Yogesh,
            We have been using the Waldorf curriculum to homeschool our two children for the last four years. English is the language that we're most comfortable in and hence that's our medium of instruction. Because I'm fairly well-versed in Waldorf method, I teach Hindi as well Waldorf style.I have also used Rishi Vally school's Hindi curriculum
            In Germany Waldorf schools use German as the medium of instruction, Its Afrikaans in South Africa, French in France. English is the foreign language there.
            Many of the languages I mentioned above have vast treasure troves of literature for children of all ages. India is unique in that we have very little literature available for our children in our national language. I end up using translations of English works- Ruskin Bond, Harry Potter etc.
            I'm sure the regional languages have more literature available for children. I don't see why Waldorf should not work in any of our languages, provided there's an eager-beaver willing to put in the effort of first understanding how and why Waldorf works and then applying that to the language of his choice.

            Regards,

            Hema Gopinathan



            --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, "yp" <yogesh.pathak@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've been looking at web pages on Waldorf curriculum and most of them are silent on what the medium of ideal instruction is.
            >
            > They often refer to "foreign languages" -- meaning there could be an assumption that the basic medium of instruction is English or the child's mother tongue.
            >
            > But I doubt Rudolf Steiner would recommend teaching in English medium if a Waldorf school was started in a non-Anglophone country, based on all the other child-centric principles of Waldorf.
            >
            > Considering this, there should be some debate, I think, on what should be the ideal medium of instructions if Waldorf schools happen to start in a country like India, because we already have a few now.
            >
            > India is a very diverse country, and drawing upon its diversity of languages and surroundings is very important for those doing new educational experiments in India. I hope English is not just being picked up by default because those who are experimenting feel comfortable with it.
            >
            > Yogesh
            >


          • Hema
            Waldorf uses stories extensively as they speak to the heart to teach everything- sciences, math, music even the language itself. There should be no problem in
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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              Waldorf uses stories extensively as they speak to the heart to teach everything- sciences, math, music even the language itself. There should be no problem in using any language as the given medium of instruction provided you have the depth of knowledge in the language required to teach all age groups of children. I suppose some intrepid soul should do it. Though teaching in say ( only as an example) Bengali would have the same meaning to say ( again only a example)a Tamilian as teaching him in English- which is the unique problem of India.
              Why is English so popular as the medium of instruction in all schools across the country?

              --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, Soma Paul <somapauls@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Hema
              >
              > I was following your discussions. When you discuss about medium of
              > instruction, it is important to understand which are the factors that
              > motivates us to take a decision on this issue? Is it the availability of
              > stories in that language? All Indian languages have storehouse of small
              > stories, adventure stories, rhymes. One can put in an effort to make them
              > available to the mass in a more organized fashion than it is now. Recently
              > I found some effort has been really going in making Bengali age-old short
              > children stories being presented in a more picturesque fashion. Many revered
              > Bengali writers, poets and novelists are also writing for children which is
              > really a very encouraging gesture.
              >
              > I feel availability of stories cannot be a motivation for us to determine
              > medium of instructions.
              >
              > soma
              >
              > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Hema <hgopinathan@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hello Yogesh,
              > > We have been using the Waldorf curriculum to homeschool our two children
              > > for the last four years. English is the language that we're most comfortable
              > > in and hence that's our medium of instruction. Because I'm fairly
              > > well-versed in Waldorf method, I teach Hindi as well Waldorf style.I have
              > > also used Rishi Vally school's Hindi curriculum
              > > In Germany Waldorf schools use German as the medium of instruction, Its
              > > Afrikaans in South Africa, French in France. English is the foreign language
              > > there.
              > > Many of the languages I mentioned above have vast treasure troves of
              > > literature for children of all ages. India is unique in that we have very
              > > little literature available for our children in our national language. I end
              > > up using translations of English works- Ruskin Bond, Harry Potter etc.
              > > I'm sure the regional languages have more literature available for
              > > children. I don't see why Waldorf should not work in any of our languages,
              > > provided there's an eager-beaver willing to put in the effort of first
              > > understanding how and why Waldorf works and then applying that to the
              > > language of his choice.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > Hema Gopinathan
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, "yp" <yogesh.pathak@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I've been looking at web pages on Waldorf curriculum and most of them are
              > > silent on what the medium of ideal instruction is.
              > > >
              > > > They often refer to "foreign languages" -- meaning there could be an
              > > assumption that the basic medium of instruction is English or the child's
              > > mother tongue.
              > > >
              > > > But I doubt Rudolf Steiner would recommend teaching in English medium if
              > > a Waldorf school was started in a non-Anglophone country, based on all the
              > > other child-centric principles of Waldorf.
              > > >
              > > > Considering this, there should be some debate, I think, on what should be
              > > the ideal medium of instructions if Waldorf schools happen to start in a
              > > country like India, because we already have a few now.
              > > >
              > > > India is a very diverse country, and drawing upon its diversity of
              > > languages and surroundings is very important for those doing new educational
              > > experiments in India. I hope English is not just being picked up by default
              > > because those who are experimenting feel comfortable with it.
              > > >
              > > > Yogesh
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Chandrashekara K A
              ... Good point. English is the lingua franca of our times (the reasons behind that being so don t matter so much to the consequences of that fact). If
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                On 03/01/2011 04:51 PM, Hema wrote:
                 

                <snip>Why is English so popular as the medium of instruction in all schools across the country?<snip>

                Good point. English is the lingua franca of our times (the reasons behind that being so don't matter so much to the consequences of that fact). If eventually someone has to work using literature (not literary literature - but technical literature, mainly) and jargon of one language, the tasks are found to be much easier and efficient if one is deeply grounded in that language.

                So I guess most people recognize this fact act on it (meaning choose English medium), when it comes to making practical, life-changing decisions about/with their children.

                --chandra

              • Sejal Chevli (Patel)
                Why is English so popular as the medium of instruction in all schools across the country? English popularity has many illusionary reasons rather than genuine
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                  Why is English so popular as the medium of instruction in all schools across the country?

                  English popularity has many 'illusionary' reasons rather than genuine ones when we talk about 'India'.

                  When parents from illeterate family where nobody knows few words in english choose english as medium of early education .... they only dream their child speaking impressive english!
                  For some it is international lang. ....our child will survive anywhere he go!
                  For girl child...learning in english is marriage passport which ensures good/rich/educated family!
                  Mostly people follow what other people are doing arround them...uska bachcha english me ja raha mera kyo nahi!
                  Somewhere it's just statue symbol!

                  And so many more....without any logic behind.

                  Nobody can denied importance of english but lang. of instruction for 'early' education must be mother tounge except families who made English their mother tounge.



                  Sejal




                   
                • Bhuvana Venkat
                  Children pick up languages very fast. For mine, though english is not mother tongue, she and I know more words in English and have to search for words in our
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                    Children pick up languages very fast. For mine, though english is not mother tongue, she and I know more words in English and have to search for words in our mother tongue for them. For a long time, I was more fluent in English and may be even Hindi than my mother tongue because I didn't grow up in a place where my mother tongue was widely spoken. The biggest use of language is communication. Whatever be the follies of the language, english has one peculiarity. Being spoken as widely as it is, it offers and imbibes into itself words from every corner of the globe. It has evolved to be a perfect medium of communication making the world a village.
                    I understand issues with parents who don't speak english, but every generation will speak better english evolving from parents who don't speak it. In my opinion we must have one common language for communication. I don't care what language it is. Most books from every language are translated into English. Hence, English already has a head start over any other. Learning your mother tongue is useful mainly for the purpose of translating beautiful literature into English, hence making it available to the world at large. Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?
                    regards
                    bhuvana  
                     

                    To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                    From: sej.nik@...
                    Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:51:53 -0800
                    Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                     

                    Why is English so popular as the medium of instruction in all schools across the country?

                    English popularity has many 'illusionary' reasons rather than genuine ones when we talk about 'India'.

                    When parents from illeterate family where nobody knows few words in english choose english as medium of early education .... they only dream their child speaking impressive english!
                    For some it is international lang. ....our child will survive anywhere he go!
                    For girl child...learning in english is marriage passport which ensures good/rich/educated family!
                    Mostly people follow what other people are doing arround them...uska bachcha english me ja raha mera kyo nahi!
                    Somewhere it's just statue symbol!

                    And so many more....without any logic behind.

                    Nobody can denied importance of english but lang. of instruction for 'early' education must be mother tounge except families who made English their mother tounge.



                    Sejal




                     


                  • Sejal Chevli (Patel)
                    Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can t everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride? Why do mankind need so
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                      Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                      Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?
                    • Manas Chakrabarti
                      Might be interesting to look at the relationship between language and thought, culture, politics, etc. (even if not in an extreme Whorfianistic way). See what
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                        Might be interesting to look at the relationship between language and thought, culture, politics, etc. (even if not in an extreme Whorfianistic way). See what cultural anthropologist Wade Davis has to say: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0627_020628_wadedavis.html

                        Excerpt: ""A language isn't just a body of vocabulary or a set of grammatical rules. It is a flash of the human spirit, a vehicle though which the soul of a particular culture comes into the material world. And when we lose a language, we lose a vital element of the human dream."

                        Manas


                        From: Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...>
                        To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 2 March, 2011 8:52:06 AM
                        Subject: RE: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                         

                        ... Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?



                      • Bhuvana Venkat
                        culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                          culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as there are individuals. But language's primary goal is communication. As Feynman describes there is no use for symbols that are not understood by another except for a personal journal. I would however be interested in the anthrophosophical explanation. I will read more on it as suggested in the previous mail.

                          regards
                          bhuvana 

                          To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                          From: sej.nik@...
                          Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:50:35 -0800
                          Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                           
                          Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                          Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?


                        • Sejal Chevli (Patel)
                          Culture can t survive without lang. Absorb meaning than words.Macaulay surely smiling looking at today s India.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                            Culture can't survive without lang. Absorb meaning than words.Macaulay surely smiling looking at today's India.
                          • Bhuvana Venkat
                            Oh yes it can, there was culture even before man started speaking! Most of the things we do culturally, we don t know the meaning! How many of the pundits who
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                              Oh yes it can, there was culture even before man started speaking! Most of the things we do culturally, we don't know the meaning! How many of the pundits who chant the vedas, know what it means? You can transmit culture in any language..
                               

                              To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                              From: sej.nik@...
                              Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:05:42 -0800
                              Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                               

                              Culture can't survive without lang. Absorb meaning than words.Macaulay surely smiling looking at today's India.


                            • Amit Mathur
                              To add to this interesting discussion: There is growing scientific evidence that language shapes what we think about. For an overview, see these: *
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                                To add to this interesting discussion: There is growing scientific evidence that language shapes what we think about. For an overview, see these:
                                * http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html
                                * http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thought.html
                                * http://www.radiolab.org/2011/jan/25/birds-eye-view/ (it contains a story about Australian aboriginal language whose speakers including children have developed an ability to orient themselves very accurately mostly because of the way directionality is woven into their language)

                                So, choice of language is important and not letting the languages die is equally important since with that we lose a certain way to think.

                                Regards,
                                Amit.

                                On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Oh yes it can, there was culture even before man started speaking! Most of the things we do culturally, we don't know the meaning! How many of the pundits who chant the vedas, know what it means? You can transmit culture in any language..

                                Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:05:42 -0800

                                Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                 

                                Culture can't survive without lang. Absorb meaning than words.Macaulay surely smiling looking at today's India.



                              • Sejal Chevli (Patel)
                                sorry, don t know when i included myself into culture protecter ....i m out! but can t support one language theory!
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 1, 2011
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                                  sorry, don't know when i included myself into 'culture protecter'....i'm out!

                                  but

                                  can't support one language theory!



                                • Bhuvana Venkat
                                  Interesting but isn t old always lost paving way for the new... Don t know if this difference in language contributes to the rich diversity and must be
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 2, 2011
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                                    Interesting but isn't old always lost paving way for the new... Don't know if this difference in language contributes to the rich diversity and must be protected or whether it is a divisive force creating inequality which must be fought?
                                     

                                    To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: a.k.mathur@...
                                    Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:17:00 +0530
                                    Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                     
                                    To add to this interesting discussion: There is growing scientific evidence that language shapes what we think about. For an overview, see these:
                                    * http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html
                                    * http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thought.html
                                    * http://www.radiolab.org/2011/jan/25/birds-eye-view/ (it contains a story about Australian aboriginal language whose speakers including children have developed an ability to orient themselves very accurately mostly because of the way directionality is woven into their language)

                                    So, choice of language is important and not letting the languages die is equally important since with that we lose a certain way to think.

                                    Regards,
                                    Amit.

                                    On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Oh yes it can, there was culture even before man started speaking! Most of the things we do culturally, we don't know the meaning! How many of the pundits who chant the vedas, know what it means? You can transmit culture in any language..

                                    Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:05:42 -0800

                                    Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                     

                                    Culture can't survive without lang. Absorb meaning than words.Macaulay surely smiling looking at today's India.




                                  • Yugandhar S
                                    Hi Bhuvana, What is communication? Someone dies. People go there dressed in white robes. Is it the fashion of the day or they are trying to express and
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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                                      Hi Bhuvana,
                                        What is communication?

                                        Someone dies. People go there dressed in white robes. Is it the fashion of the day or they are trying to express and communicate something....
                                        There is a dance performance going on. The dancer is displaying various postures and gestures. Is he/she trying to communicate something or .....
                                        Sarong is played non stop on tv when a national leader expires. Something communicated there or a music festival is on?
                                        A monkey in the forest raises its tail and gives a call. The rest of them become alert of an impending danger. Are the gestures and calls just meaningless gibberish or there is some communication happening?

                                      Best Regards
                                      Yugandhar


                                      On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as there are individuals. But language's primary goal is communication. As Feynman describes there is no use for symbols that are not understood by another except for a personal journal. I would however be interested in the anthrophosophical explanation. I will read more on it as suggested in the previous mail.



                                      regards
                                      bhuvana 

                                      To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: sej.nik@...
                                      Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:50:35 -0800

                                      Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                       
                                      Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                                      Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?



                                    • Bhuvana Venkat
                                      Ok I get your point.. but I hope you see the difference. I enjoy music in any language whether I understand it or not. I love watching any dance whether I
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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                                        Ok I get your point.. but I hope you see the difference. I enjoy music in any language whether I understand it or not. I love watching any dance whether I understand it's basic structure or not. Some traditions wear black, some wear white but they communicate the same thing. In our tradition white is for the widow but westerners wear it at weddings! But everyone will wish someone have a happy married life be it in any language. Why do you need more than one language to say the same thing was the question I put forth. If you do not understand a language, it is meaningless, not so for music or dance etc... 
                                         
                                        One answer that made sense to me is that different languages communicate in different ways .. for ex the sense of direction in one tribal language. But if we really needed that skill I guess it would have transpired into all languages.  I don't think that is convincing for requiring more than one common language, which would be much more useful. There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can't do it very accurately now thanks to the ability to wear a watch. We loose irrelevant skills and gain others... 
                                        Second point some people brought forth is that language and culture go hand in hand and when we loose a language we loose a part of the culture as well. That may be true to some extent but I don't think it is necessary. Stories and traditional values are passed on through word of mouth. They existed even before man could write. Many english books with Indian stories , epics, traditions etc are available. Infact english has books in almost any tradition and gives the reader a chance to pick what is close to his heart. Once we have many Indian writers in english, writing our traditions and culture in english, I don't think we will loose the culture when we loose the language.
                                         
                                        Just as a monkey in the forest raises it's tail and gives a call means danger universally, we need one universal language. That is all we need, we can learn the others for interest but I don't think it is necessary that's all.
                                        regards
                                        bhuvana

                                        To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: s.yugandhar@...
                                        Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:26:02 +0530
                                        Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                         
                                        Hi Bhuvana,
                                          What is communication?

                                          Someone dies. People go there dressed in white robes. Is it the fashion of the day or they are trying to express and communicate something....
                                          There is a dance performance going on. The dancer is displaying various postures and gestures. Is he/she trying to communicate something or .....
                                          Sarong is played non stop on tv when a national leader expires. Something communicated there or a music festival is on?
                                          A monkey in the forest raises its tail and gives a call. The rest of them become alert of an impending danger. Are the gestures and calls just meaningless gibberish or there is some communication happening?

                                        Best Regards
                                        Yugandhar


                                        On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as there are individuals. But language's primary goal is communication. As Feynman describes there is no use for symbols that are not understood by another except for a personal journal. I would however be interested in the anthrophosophical explanation. I will read more on it as suggested in the previous mail.



                                        regards
                                        bhuvana 

                                        To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: sej.nik@...
                                        Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:50:35 -0800

                                        Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                         
                                        Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                                        Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?




                                      • sangeet shivam
                                        Language is a tool to communicate but it is not the only tool. When we communicate, verbal component in the communication consists of only 25 to 30%, rest is
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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                                          Language is a tool to communicate but it is not the only tool. When we communicate, verbal component in the communication consists of only 25 to 30%, rest is body language, gestures and  tone. Otherwise it would not have been possible to communicate at all if one did not understand each others language- what is the role of sign language? As far as having a common language, globally or nationally, is concerned, it can become a reason of  discussion leading to acrimony.
                                          "Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?"
                                           
                                          Instead of discussing which language should be a tool of communication, we should focus on how to create a bridge between different languages and go beyond a politically sensitive and rift creating discussion of language.

                                          --
                                           Warm Regards,
                                          Sangeet Shivam
                                          Principal 
                                          Sanskaar School

                                        • Bhuvana Venkat
                                          I agree. However my question was because of the fact that language is creating a rift. There is opposition to Hindi in Tamilnadu. There was a lot of emphasis
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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                                            I agree.
                                            However my question was because of the fact that language is creating a rift. There is opposition to Hindi in Tamilnadu. There was a lot of emphasis on learning and teaching in the mother tongue in the initial mails of this thread. I think the choice must be individual depending on the requirement. There are several schools with mother tongue as the medium of instruction. Even in most schools where the language of instruction is english, the teacher also explains some concepts in the local language if she feels lack of understanding among the students of some difficult concept. So why the fuss. I feel learning the most commonly spoken language in the world is just as important as learning any other language if not more. And so if english is not the mother tongue, creating opportunities to use the language outside of the house is very important to developing vocabulary in the language. 
                                            regards
                                            bhuvana 

                                            To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: sangeetshivam@...
                                            Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:35:07 +0530
                                            Subject: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                             
                                            Language is a tool to communicate but it is not the only tool. When we communicate, verbal component in the communication consists of only 25 to 30%, rest is body language, gestures and  tone. Otherwise it would not have been possible to communicate at all if one did not understand each others language- what is the role of sign language? As far as having a common language, globally or nationally, is concerned, it can become a reason of  discussion leading to acrimony.
                                            "Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?"
                                             
                                            Instead of discussing which language should be a tool of communication, we should focus on how to create a bridge between different languages and go beyond a politically sensitive and rift creating discussion of language.

                                            --
                                             Warm Regards,
                                            Sangeet Shivam
                                            Principal 
                                            Sanskaar School


                                          • Yugandhar S
                                            Dear Bhuvana, There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can t do it very accurately now thanks to the
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                              Dear Bhuvana,
                                                "There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can't do it very accurately now thanks to the ability to wear a watch. We loose irrelevant skills and gain others... ".
                                                But it seems like we are losing relevant skills and gaining irrelevant ones. Which is better looking at the sun and telling the time(all you need is the sun and your eyes), or being helpless for the lack of a watch?

                                                Also in this same thread you have earlier said: "How many of the pundits who chant the vedas, know what it means? "

                                                If I say you have passed school and college, can read and write emails, can dance, sing, paint etc but you do not know the meaning of it, is it correct? See, even these pundits learn the vedas under strict guidelines away from home, pass exams and what not. Now, you think for yourself if they know the meanings or not.

                                              We may not know the meaning of the many cultural things we do, BUT the thing is they HAVE a meaning. We just do not know for various reasons best known to us.

                                              I wish you all the best to have a universal single language for all mankind. Give it a try.

                                              Best Regards
                                              Yugandhar
                                              All that glitters is not gold.

                                              On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              Ok I get your point.. but I hope you see the difference. I enjoy music in any language whether I understand it or not. I love watching any dance whether I understand it's basic structure or not. Some traditions wear black, some wear white but they communicate the same thing. In our tradition white is for the widow but westerners wear it at weddings! But everyone will wish someone have a happy married life be it in any language. Why do you need more than one language to say the same thing was the question I put forth. If you do not understand a language, it is meaningless, not so for music or dance etc... 
                                               
                                              One answer that made sense to me is that different languages communicate in different ways .. for ex the sense of direction in one tribal language. But if we really needed that skill I guess it would have transpired into all languages.  I don't think that is convincing for requiring more than one common language, which would be much more useful. There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can't do it very accurately now thanks to the ability to wear a watch. We loose irrelevant skills and gain others... 
                                              Second point some people brought forth is that language and culture go hand in hand and when we loose a language we loose a part of the culture as well. That may be true to some extent but I don't think it is necessary. Stories and traditional values are passed on through word of mouth. They existed even before man could write. Many english books with Indian stories , epics, traditions etc are available. Infact english has books in almost any tradition and gives the reader a chance to pick what is close to his heart. Once we have many Indian writers in english, writing our traditions and culture in english, I don't think we will loose the culture when we loose the language.
                                               
                                              Just as a monkey in the forest raises it's tail and gives a call means danger universally, we need one universal language. That is all we need, we can learn the others for interest but I don't think it is necessary that's all.


                                              regards
                                              bhuvana

                                              To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: s.yugandhar@...
                                              Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:26:02 +0530

                                              Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                               
                                              Hi Bhuvana,
                                                What is communication?

                                                Someone dies. People go there dressed in white robes. Is it the fashion of the day or they are trying to express and communicate something....
                                                There is a dance performance going on. The dancer is displaying various postures and gestures. Is he/she trying to communicate something or .....
                                                Sarong is played non stop on tv when a national leader expires. Something communicated there or a music festival is on?
                                                A monkey in the forest raises its tail and gives a call. The rest of them become alert of an impending danger. Are the gestures and calls just meaningless gibberish or there is some communication happening?

                                              Best Regards
                                              Yugandhar


                                              On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as there are individuals. But language's primary goal is communication. As Feynman describes there is no use for symbols that are not understood by another except for a personal journal. I would however be interested in the anthrophosophical explanation. I will read more on it as suggested in the previous mail.



                                              regards
                                              bhuvana 

                                              To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: sej.nik@...
                                              Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:50:35 -0800

                                              Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                               
                                              Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                                              Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?





                                            • Sejal Chevli (Patel)
                                              Every lang. has it s own beauty and it s wonderful to feel it ...knowing more lang means connecting with more people. Language connects...it s politics which
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                                Every lang. has it's own beauty and it's wonderful to feel it ...knowing more lang means connecting with more people. Language connects...it's politics which creates rift. I feel metro children are lucky to have chance to learn many languages so naturally. Learning any language is in fact easy...live for few months in any state and you will start speaking in that state's lang.

                                                Teacher explains in local lang......but could you imagine difficulty of a student to translate and understand each and every word? For example, any child need to teach name of colour used at his home? they naturally know them but for english they have to teach...'this is red,this is yellow....' At the time when child has to develop other conginitive skills which are more important academic base ,they have to be busy getting one lang. which is not their own!

                                                Above is not a problem for  families which use english at home or atleast parents are comfertable telling stories in english. But major part of India still uses local languages . So...it's genuine concern of the thread starter...........'India is a very diverse country, and drawing upon its diversity of languages and surroundings is very important for those doing new educational experiments in India. I hope English is not just being picked up by default because those who are experimenting feel comfortable with it'.

                                                As Hema said...know how and why Waldrof works and then can apply it to any lang.,that's possible. In fact, Gijubhai Badheka has done same with Mountessouri Methods a century ago.



                                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:13 AM, Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Dear Bhuvana,
                                                  "There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can't do it very accurately now thanks to the ability to wear a watch. We loose irrelevant skills and gain others... ".
                                                  But it seems like we are losing relevant skills and gaining irrelevant ones. Which is better looking at the sun and telling the time(all you need is the sun and your eyes), or being helpless for the lack of a watch?

                                                  Also in this same thread you have earlier said: "How many of the pundits who chant the vedas, know what it means? "

                                                  If I say you have passed school and college, can read and write emails, can dance, sing, paint etc but you do not know the meaning of it, is it correct? See, even these pundits learn the vedas under strict guidelines away from home, pass exams and what not. Now, you think for yourself if they know the meanings or not.

                                                We may not know the meaning of the many cultural things we do, BUT the thing is they HAVE a meaning. We just do not know for various reasons best known to us.

                                                I wish you all the best to have a universal single language for all mankind. Give it a try.

                                                Best Regards
                                                Yugandhar
                                                All that glitters is not gold.



                                                On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Ok I get your point.. but I hope you see the difference. I enjoy music in any language whether I understand it or not. I love watching any dance whether I understand it's basic structure or not. Some traditions wear black, some wear white but they communicate the same thing. In our tradition white is for the widow but westerners wear it at weddings! But everyone will wish someone have a happy married life be it in any language. Why do you need more than one language to say the same thing was the question I put forth. If you do not understand a language, it is meaningless, not so for music or dance etc... 
                                                 
                                                One answer that made sense to me is that different languages communicate in different ways .. for ex the sense of direction in one tribal language. But if we really needed that skill I guess it would have transpired into all languages.  I don't think that is convincing for requiring more than one common language, which would be much more useful. There was a time when man was able to tell the time by looking at the position of the sun. We can't do it very accurately now thanks to the ability to wear a watch. We loose irrelevant skills and gain others... 
                                                Second point some people brought forth is that language and culture go hand in hand and when we loose a language we loose a part of the culture as well. That may be true to some extent but I don't think it is necessary. Stories and traditional values are passed on through word of mouth. They existed even before man could write. Many english books with Indian stories , epics, traditions etc are available. Infact english has books in almost any tradition and gives the reader a chance to pick what is close to his heart. Once we have many Indian writers in english, writing our traditions and culture in english, I don't think we will loose the culture when we loose the language.
                                                 
                                                Just as a monkey in the forest raises it's tail and gives a call means danger universally, we need one universal language. That is all we need, we can learn the others for interest but I don't think it is necessary that's all.


                                                regards
                                                bhuvana

                                                To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: s.yugandhar@...
                                                Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:26:02 +0530

                                                Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                                 
                                                Hi Bhuvana,
                                                  What is communication?

                                                  Someone dies. People go there dressed in white robes. Is it the fashion of the day or they are trying to express and communicate something....
                                                  There is a dance performance going on. The dancer is displaying various postures and gestures. Is he/she trying to communicate something or .....
                                                  Sarong is played non stop on tv when a national leader expires. Something communicated there or a music festival is on?
                                                  A monkey in the forest raises its tail and gives a call. The rest of them become alert of an impending danger. Are the gestures and calls just meaningless gibberish or there is some communication happening?

                                                Best Regards
                                                Yugandhar


                                                On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                culture, tradition, clothing, food, dance and music are not meant for communication, they are individual preferences and they come in as many varieties as there are individuals. But language's primary goal is communication. As Feynman describes there is no use for symbols that are not understood by another except for a personal journal. I would however be interested in the anthrophosophical explanation. I will read more on it as suggested in the previous mail.



                                                regards
                                                bhuvana 

                                                To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: sej.nik@...
                                                Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:50:35 -0800

                                                Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Waldorf curriculum - medium of instruction in India

                                                 
                                                Why do we need any language apart from 1 common language? Why can't everyone make english their mother tongue except ofcourse for pride?

                                                Why do mankind need so many different culture,tradition,clothings,food,dances,music.....................................................and not 1 common?






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