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Re: [alt-ed-india] Yahoo! News Story - Home is no place for school

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  • Prashanth Visweswaran
    To a large extent, I feel children find the need to socialize because they are not happy with themselves. Insecurity leads to need to seek outside. Home
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 29, 2003
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      To a large extent, I feel children find the need to socialize because they are not happy with themselves. Insecurity leads to need to seek outside. Home educated kids get the opportunity to socialize with people from varied fields.
       
      In a survey conducted, it was found that HomeSchoolers have higher self esteem, that other kids. I think self esteem and confidence is most important.
       
      Peace within, First.....socialize within.
       
      In my kids, my best friends
      Prashanth


      Rajesh,
       
      Thanks for the post.  It got me disgusted for sure.
       
      I often do try to play devil's advocate and try to understand the opposing viewpoint, but the following extract, from the article, stumped me!

      "Attending school is an important element in the development of the "whole child." Schools, particularly public schools, are the one place where "all of the children of all of the people come together." Can there be anything more important to each child and thus to our democratic society than to develop virtues and values such as respect for others, the ability to communicate and collaborate and an openness to diversity and new ideas? Such virtues and values cannot be accessed on the Internet.

      The isolation implicit in home teaching is anathema to socialization and citizenship. It is a rejection of community and makes the home-schooler the captive of the orthodoxies of the parents."

      I don't understand what they go on and on about socialization for.  At our park days, on the average, 10 (often more) people get together thrice a week, and both adults and children bond very well.  We are again a mixed group, comprising different races and cultures - different yet getting along together.  So is this not a community?  And we are all pretty close to each other, a fact which may not occur if I were to just spend a couple minutes drop-picking up my child from a public school.  Better to know a FEW people, and well, than to have a hundred acquaintances.  As to respecting each other at public schools, the answer is, 'yeah right'.

      This is how I feel.

      I guess that many in this forum will agree with me so I won't go on with further argument :).  But I like reading all your viewpoints as well.

      -Neela.


      Yahoo! News <lelerajesh@...> wrote:
      (lelerajesh@...) has sent you a news article. (Email address has not been verified.)

      Personal message:

      The classic debate of homeschool versus private school goes on. Another article on the same.

      Home is no place for school
      http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20030903/cm_usatoday/11774092


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      Op/Ed - USATODAY.com
      Home is no place for school
      Wed Sep 3, 6:49 AM ET
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      By Dennis L. Evans

      The popularity of home schooling, while not significant in terms of the number of children involved, is attracting growing attention from the media, which create the impression that a "movement" is underway. Movement or not, there are compelling reasons to oppose home teaching both for the sake of the children involved and for society.

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      Home schooling is an extension of the misguided notion that "anyone can teach." That notion is simply wrong. Recently, some of our best and brightest college graduates, responding to the altruistic call to "Teach for America," failed as teachers because they lacked training. Good teaching is a complex act that involves more than simply loving children. Research on student achievement overwhelmingly supports the "common-sense" logic that the most important factor affecting student learning is teacher competency. While some parents may be competent to teach very young children, that competence will wane in more advanced grades as the content and complexity increases.

      But schools serve important functions far beyond academic learning. Attending school is an important element in the development of the "whole child." Schools, particularly public schools, are the one place where "all of the children of all of the people come together." Can there be anything more important to each child and thus to our democratic society than to develop virtues and values such as respect for others, the ability to communicate and collaborate and an openness to diversity and new ideas? Such virtues and values cannot be accessed on the Internet.

      The isolation implicit in home teaching is anathema to socialization and citizenship. It is a rejection of community and makes the home-schooler the captive of the orthodoxies of the parents.

      One of the strengths of our educational system is the wide range of legitimate forms of public, private or parochial schooling available for parental choice.

      With that in mind, those contemplating home teaching might heed the words of the Roman educator, Quintilian (A.D. 95). In opposing home schooling, he wrote, "It is one thing to shun schools entirely, another to choose from them."

      Dennis L. Evans directs doctoral programs in education leadership at the University of California, Irvine.


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      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      This mailing list is primarily for the use of families who are home educating in India, and those who are considering doing so. However, all those with a deep interest in serious education are welcome to participate. The list's intentions are to facilitate enquiry into fundamental educational questions, to learn together, to share, and to  support those who are home educating.


      If you have a web-based subscription, you can learn more about the Alternative Education in India group, and view the archives, by visiting: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alt-ed-india

      To start sending messages to members of the group, simply send emails to:  alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com

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      There are associated web pages at:
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      Here you can if you wish add yourself to the local contact groups data base, which is to enable members of the group to make personal contact with others who live nearby.

      list owner: alt-ed-india-owner@yahoogroups.com

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      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      This mailing list is primarily for the use of families who are home educating in India, and those who are considering doing so. However, all those with a deep interest in serious education are welcome to participate. The list's intentions are to facilitate enquiry into fundamental educational questions, to learn together, to share, and to  support those who are home educating.


      If you have a web-based subscription, you can learn more about the Alternative Education in India group, and view the archives, by visiting: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alt-ed-india

      To start sending messages to members of the group, simply send emails to:  alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com

      If you do not wish to belong to home_educating_india, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to:
      alt-ed-india-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      There are associated web pages at:
      www.alternativeeducationindia.net

      Here you can if you wish add yourself to the local contact groups data base, which is to enable members of the group to make personal contact with others who live nearby.

      list owner: alt-ed-india-owner@yahoogroups.com

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    • Clive Elwell
      Yahoo! News - Home is no place for schoolWhen the writer says: Attending school is an important element in the development of the whole child. Schools,
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 29, 2003
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        Yahoo! News - Home is no place for school
        When the writer says:
        "Attending school is an important element in the development of the "whole child." Schools, particularly public schools, are the one place where "all of the children of all of the people come together." Can there be anything more important to each child and thus to our democratic society than to develop virtues and values such as respect for others, the ability to communicate and collaborate and an openness to diversity and new ideas"
         
        What a marvellous picture of American society he paints! A society full of "whole human beings", all respecting each other, open, etc etc ad nauseum. And he is no doubt paid a good salary to perpetuate such blatant myths and lies. It is quite incredible! It is on a line with President Bush's speeches.
         
        Clive
      • NathanHerrmann01@aol.com
        HOME IS NO PLACE FOR SCHOOL ?????? Every person should have his or her own dicision for his or her own child or children. And every other person should
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 29, 2003
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          HOME IS NO PLACE FOR  SCHOOL ??????

          Every person should have his or her own dicision for his or her own child or children.

          And every other person should respect that !!

          What is so bad about schooling kids at home???

          'Cause the kids at home get more intention combined with love and security??

          'Cause the kids are away from danger in the schools and on the way to schools

            We are Germans and we have something interesting for you all.Education is an important matter in Germany, school attendance is compulsory for children. For this reason the school performance study released by PISA came as a shock to the nation. The German pupils results put them in the bottom third of the table.  
            We have no choice as parents in such a country whether you like it or not we have to accept it and there we miss the home schooling where we  can give our own children better education.
            We have no time tables, no tests, no school buses, nothing for the kids' sake.Would you send your kids in such schools??? Would you like that if your kid is passing his /her examinations without any exams, year by year??
            Will you send your kid to such schools where the kids learn nothing??Will you be able to relax while your kid is at school as  mostly every day a kid is kidnapped or killed or raped??
          No, but most of the people put the responsibility in the hands of the schools and teachers instead of sitting down and spend hours to teach the kids.
            Months ago we went to the school to see how and what we should do for schooling our twins.
            We went there with our twins and the teacher came and said, so we would like to test the twins whether they fit in for the 1st grade or not.Our twins were very excited and said proudly," We know how to write in daily handwriting like the adults, in small letters and we know also already to count 2 digits and we have also science experiments already at home"
          The teacher looked at them and said, "No, you don't need all these in the 1st , 2nd and 3 rd grades,and come, I will show you what you need  to attend the 1st grade.
          The kids looked at them quite disappointed and asked"What do we need then"
             The teacher answered, "Nothing special, but just to be able to come with me without your parents""
             The kids said,"No!!, we are told not to go with any strangers!!"
             And the teacher said"Look, that was the test!!, you both didn't pass the test to attend the 1 st grade"
            Yes, That is all what you need!!! ????
                  And see the resulu!!??
             And  look at the results of the countries where you have  compulsory schools.!!!


            
                  O
          n June 25 Education Minister Edelgard Bulmahn called for a national effort in response to the results of the PISA comparative study on schools. As an initial step she presented a government program aimed at promoting the introduction of all-day education at German schools.

          Reducing disadvantage in education as a result of differences in family background

          On the evening of June 25 the Standing Conference of state government ministers of education and cultural affairs presented the results of a national PISA study. The country-wide comparison of schools was aimed at uncovering deficits in the school systems of the various states. The national PISA study was commissioned after students at German schools ranked very low in the international study.

          Germany's own Leaning Tower of PISA" was a popular headline in German newspapers this week. The reference was not to an architectural discovery, but to the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), sponsored by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which tested 250,000 15-year-old students from 32 industrialized countries in a triennial survey of academic proficiency. Results released late last year showed that the 6,000 German students tested performed surprisingly poorly in reading and comprehension, math basics and natural sciences, placing Germany ahead of only Luxembourg, Mexico and Brazil.

          Germany's own Leaning Tower of PISA" was a popular headline in German newspapers this week. The reference was not to an architectural discovery, but to the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), sponsored by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which tested 250,000 15-year-old students from 32 industrialized countries in a triennial survey of academic proficiency. Results released late last year showed that the 6,000 German students tested performed surprisingly poorly in reading and comprehension, math basics and natural sciences, placing Germany ahead of only Luxembourg, Mexico and Brazil.   

          U.S. Students Rank Among World's
          Best and Worst ReadersBy David J. Hoff Washington The United States scored in the middle on a new 32-nation study of educational achievement, experts say, because many of the best readers in the world live here-and many more of the worst. "The best students in the U.S. do as well as anyone in the world," said Barry McGaw, the deputy director for education for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the Paris-based group that conducted the survey of 15-year-olds' achievement. "What drags the U.S. average down is that there are lots of kids in the country doing poorly.
            
          But 18 percent of the U.S. test-takers scored at or below the lowest performance level in the exam-meaning they were unable to identify themes of reading assignments or locate basic information within a text. That percentage is the same as the international average, but more than twice as high as Finland's and Canada's- the countries that scored the best on the reading test.   
            
          Finland scored the highest on the reading portion of the exam, with Canada and New Zealand also near the top and higher than the United States by statistically significant margins. The U.S. reading score was about the same as those of countries such as Belgium, Germany, and the Czech Republic, but statistically higher than those of Greece, Portugal, Luxembourg, Mexico, Russia, Latvia, and Brazil.   
            

          Finland scored the highest on the reading portion of the exam, with Canada and New Zealand also near the top and higher than the United States by statistically significant margins. The U.S. reading score was about the same as those of countries such as Belgium, Germany, and the Czech Republic, but statistically higher than those of Greece, Portugal, Luxembourg, Mexico, Russia, Latvia, and Brazil.   
            

          In mathematics and science, Japan and Korea ranked at the top, as those Asian nations often do on international assessments, while the United States scored in the middle, along with Ireland, Norway, and the Czech Republic.   
            

          Middle School Slump?The PISA results are in line with the findings of previous international studies. The best schools in the United States are on a par with the highest-performing countries in the world, but the poor showing of a significant minority of American schools lowers the country's overall performance to the international mean.Last spring, results from the Third International Mathematics and Science Study-Repeat revealed that achievement in wealthy suburban schools is comparable with that of leading nations, but that U.S. inner city schools rank with the lowest-scoring countries.   
            





            
            
















        • Clive Elwell
          Thank you for this posting Hermann. Tell me, do parents ever defy the authorities and keep their children at home? Regards Clive ... From:
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 29, 2003
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            Thank you for this posting Hermann. Tell me, do parents ever defy the authorities and keep their children at home?
             
            Regards
             
            Clive
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:45 AM
            Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Yahoo! News Story - Home is no place for school

            HOME IS NO PLACE FOR  SCHOOL ??????

            Every person should have his or her own dicision for his or her own child or children.

            And every other person should respect that !!

            What is so bad about schooling kids at home???

            'Cause the kids at home get more intention combined with love and security??

            'Cause the kids are away from danger in the schools and on the way to schools

              We are Germans and we have something interesting for you all.Education is an important matter in Germany, school attendance is compulsory for children. For this reason the school performance study released by PISA came as a shock to the nation. The German pupils results put them in the bottom third of the table.  
              We have no choice as parents in such a country whether you like it or not we have to accept it and there we miss the home schooling where we  can give our own children better education.
              We have no time tables, no tests, no school buses, nothing for the kids' sake.Would you send your kids in such schools??? Would you like that if your kid is passing his /her examinations without any exams, year by year??
              Will you send your kid to such schools where the kids learn nothing??Will you be able to relax while your kid is at school as  mostly every day a kid is kidnapped or killed or raped??
            No, but most of the people put the responsibility in the hands of the schools and teachers instead of sitting down and spend hours to teach the kids.
              Months ago we went to the school to see how and what we should do for schooling our twins.
              We went there with our twins and the teacher came and said, so we would like to test the twins whether they fit in for the 1st grade or not.Our twins were very excited and said proudly," We know how to write in daily handwriting like the adults, in small letters and we know also already to count 2 digits and we have also science experiments already at home"
            The teacher looked at them and said, "No, you don't need all these in the 1st , 2nd and 3 rd grades,and come, I will show you what you need  to attend the 1st grade.
            The kids looked at them quite disappointed and asked"What do we need then"
               The teacher answered, "Nothing special, but just to be able to come with me without your parents""
               The kids said,"No!!, we are told not to go with any strangers!!"
               And the teacher said"Look, that was the test!!, you both didn't pass the test to attend the 1 st grade"
              Yes, That is all what you need!!! ????
                    And see the resulu!!??
               And  look at the results of the countries where you have  compulsory schools.!!!


              
                    O
            n June 25 Education Minister Edelgard Bulmahn called for a national effort in response to the results of the PISA comparative study on schools. As an initial step she presented a government program aimed at promoting the introduction of all-day education at German schools.

            Reducing disadvantage in education as a result of differences in family background

            On the evening of June 25 the Standing Conference of state government ministers of education and cultural affairs presented the results of a national PISA study. The country-wide comparison of schools was aimed at uncovering deficits in the school systems of the various states. The national PISA study was commissioned after students at German schools ranked very low in the international study.

            Germany's own Leaning Tower of PISA" was a popular headline in German newspapers this week. The reference was not to an architectural discovery, but to the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), sponsored by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which tested 250,000 15-year-old students from 32 industrialized countries in a triennial survey of academic proficiency. Results released late last year showed that the 6,000 German students tested performed surprisingly poorly in reading and comprehension, math basics and natural sciences, placing Germany ahead of only Luxembourg, Mexico and Brazil.

            Germany's own Leaning Tower of PISA" was a popular headline in German newspapers this week. The reference was not to an architectural discovery, but to the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), sponsored by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which tested 250,000 15-year-old students from 32 industrialized countries in a triennial survey of academic proficiency. Results released late last year showed that the 6,000 German students tested performed surprisingly poorly in reading and comprehension, math basics and natural sciences, placing Germany ahead of only Luxembourg, Mexico and Brazil.   

            U.S. Students Rank Among World's
            Best and Worst ReadersBy David J. Hoff Washington The United States scored in the middle on a new 32-nation study of educational achievement, experts say, because many of the best readers in the world live here-and many more of the worst. "The best students in the U.S. do as well as anyone in the world," said Barry McGaw, the deputy director for education for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the Paris-based group that conducted the survey of 15-year-olds' achievement. "What drags the U.S. average down is that there are lots of kids in the country doing poorly.
              
            But 18 percent of the U.S. test-takers scored at or below the lowest performance level in the exam-meaning they were unable to identify themes of reading assignments or locate basic information within a text. That percentage is the same as the international average, but more than twice as high as Finland's and Canada's- the countries that scored the best on the reading test.   
              
            Finland scored the highest on the reading portion of the exam, with Canada and New Zealand also near the top and higher than the United States by statistically significant margins. The U.S. reading score was about the same as those of countries such as Belgium, Germany, and the Czech Republic, but statistically higher than those of Greece, Portugal, Luxembourg, Mexico, Russia, Latvia, and Brazil.   
              

            Finland scored the highest on the reading portion of the exam, with Canada and New Zealand also near the top and higher than the United States by statistically significant margins. The U.S. reading score was about the same as those of countries such as Belgium, Germany, and the Czech Republic, but statistically higher than those of Greece, Portugal, Luxembourg, Mexico, Russia, Latvia, and Brazil.   
              

            In mathematics and science, Japan and Korea ranked at the top, as those Asian nations often do on international assessments, while the United States scored in the middle, along with Ireland, Norway, and the Czech Republic.   
              

            Middle School Slump?The PISA results are in line with the findings of previous international studies. The best schools in the United States are on a par with the highest-performing countries in the world, but the poor showing of a significant minority of American schools lowers the country's overall performance to the international mean.Last spring, results from the Third International Mathematics and Science Study-Repeat revealed that achievement in wealthy suburban schools is comparable with that of leading nations, but that U.S. inner city schools rank with the lowest-scoring countries.   
              





              
              


















            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            This mailing list is primarily for the use of families who are home educating in India, and those who are considering doing so. However, all those with a deep interest in serious education are welcome to participate. The list's intentions are to facilitate enquiry into fundamental educational questions, to learn together, to share, and to  support those who are home educating.


            If you have a web-based subscription, you can learn more about the Alternative Education in India group, and view the archives, by visiting: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alt-ed-india

            To start sending messages to members of the group, simply send emails to:  alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com

            If you do not wish to belong to home_educating_india, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to:
            alt-ed-india-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            There are associated web pages at:
            www.alternativeeducationindia.net

            Here you can if you wish add yourself to the local contact groups data base, which is to enable members of the group to make personal contact with others who live nearby.

            list owner: alt-ed-india-owner@yahoogroups.com

            **********************************************************************


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • NathanHerrmann01@aol.com
            Hello Clive, No, you can t defy the authorities and keep the kids at home as you can be in jail one day for that. Regards, Pat and friedel
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 29, 2003
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              Hello Clive,
                No, you can't defy the authorities and keep the kids at home as you can be in jail one day for that.
               
                Regards,
                    Pat and friedel
            • Clive Elwell
              But of course you can defy them. One may well go to jail for doing so. Has anyone, to your knowledge, done that? Clive ... From: NathanHerrmann01@aol.com To:
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 30, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                But of course you can defy them. One may well go to jail for doing so.
                Has anyone, to your knowledge, done that?
                Clive
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Yahoo! News Story - Home is no place for school

                Hello Clive,
                  No, you can't defy the authorities and keep the kids at home as you can be in jail one day for that.
                 
                  Regards,
                      Pat and friedel


                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                This mailing list is primarily for the use of families who are home educating in India, and those who are considering doing so. However, all those with a deep interest in serious education are welcome to participate. The list's intentions are to facilitate enquiry into fundamental educational questions, to learn together, to share, and to  support those who are home educating.


                If you have a web-based subscription, you can learn more about the Alternative Education in India group, and view the archives, by visiting: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alt-ed-india

                To start sending messages to members of the group, simply send emails to:  alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com

                If you do not wish to belong to home_educating_india, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to:
                alt-ed-india-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                There are associated web pages at:
                www.alternativeeducationindia.net

                Here you can if you wish add yourself to the local contact groups data base, which is to enable members of the group to make personal contact with others who live nearby.

                list owner: alt-ed-india-owner@yahoogroups.com

                **********************************************************************


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • NathanHerrmann01@aol.com
                Oh, Clive, that s a long story. Sure there were some who were against this policy. But Germans are like sheeps. We have no open opinions.We all follow what
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 30, 2003
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                  Oh, Clive, that's a long story.
                    Sure there were some who were against this policy.
                     But Germans are like  sheeps.
                  We have no open opinions.We all follow what the first one does or did.
                    Even if it is wrong every one does what the other does, just to belong to the  others.
                      will tell you more about that one day
                      And we have had our first child in the school here and what she learnt in the school was less than half what the Asian kids at home learnt.
                    At home we all can adjust the level and concentrate on a child or two and give them patience which is not available in the public schools.
                    Sure, the kids need  social  communication, but  do we have to be in a socity to  become good adults?
                  No one is sure about what is good and what is bad But every one know for sure that every person wants the best for his/her child/children.
                    And Every one should have his own opinion and should have  a chance to decide what he/ she thinks the best
                    And no one can ever say against home schooling as here are hte main points
                    1.kids get individual attention
                    2. parents learn again with the kids
                    3. parents have more time and patience than teachers with lots of  kids  ih the class romms
                    4.We can adjust the level and subjects
                  And that is just  nonsence that kids need communication with other kids and so on.
                  If so, we need to arrange play grounds and play centres and handicraft groups and not compulsory schools
                   
                  In the west and in the Industry countries, people have only one child and no brothers and sisters,and every family has to have 2 cars, 2 jobs and no time for the kids andso every one accept the compulsory schools whether they are good or bad and no one ever thinks the negative sides of the public schools.
                    And should not forget one!!! Most of the rich countries with public schools have lower education than those from poor countries and most of the kids from the public schools have very low level in every subject and that's also understandable.
                    To teach 30 kids   is more difficult than to teach one or two kids.
                    To concentrate on one kid is mnuch easier than on 30 kids.And I think these  are the main points!!!


                     But we should leave every person a chance for his/her own dicision.

                           Family Herrmann  from Germany
                   
                   
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