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Re: Guiding principle for education!

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  • susan sandivigore
    Don t say you are wrong and I am right, or I am wrong and you are right, but let us examine the problem and find out. Let us enquire without denying and
    Message 1 of 54 , Jul 31 8:11 PM
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      "Don't say you are wrong and I am right, or I am wrong and you are
      right, but let us examine the problem and find out. Let us enquire
      without denying and without justifying." Krishanamurti said in
      freedom from the known. well i am not going to say that i am right
      and you are wrong. i dont think in these kind of conversation we can
      even say that.
      secondly in the picture
      (http://tuljo.store20.com/project_outcome.html) different people
      understands same words in different way which usually creates
      misunderstanding and communication problem between us.

      Well back to the conversation again how do you define "egoism" and
      what is "attitude"???
      Yes if we love someone we should take care of them but also should
      let them free. If you try to grab water in the fist you will never
      succeed. If you try to hold it in the open hand water stays there for
      a while. Yes todays world is filled with full of selfish, egoistic
      business men, who even sells their own children for money. But we
      shouldn't forget they are not the only one who lives in this plante
      earth. I guess that's where education comes handy. We should teach
      them to be aware of those kind of people. And we should let them
      learn their own way through experience also. Below is the letter from
      A. Lincon to the headmaster of his son's school. I hope you will
      like itÂ…..

      "He will have to learn, I know, that all men are not just and are not
      true. But teach him if you can, the wonder of books.. but also give
      him quiet time to ponder the eternal mystery of birds in the sky,
      bees in the sun and flowers on a green hillside.
      In school, teach him it is far more honorable to fall than to
      cheat.....
      Teach to have faith in his own ideas, even if everyone tells him he
      is wrong.
      Teach him to be gentle with gentlepeople and tough with the tough.
      Try to give my son the strength not to follow the crowd when everyone
      getting on the bandwagon...
      Teach him to listen to all men; but teach him also to filter all he
      hears on a screen of truth, and take only the good that comes through.
      Teach him, if you can, how to laugh when he is sad... Teach him there
      is no shame in tears.
      Teach him to scoff at cynics and to be beware of too much sweetness..
      Teach him to sell his brawn and brain to highest bidders, but never
      to put a price on his heart and soul. Teach him to close his ears to
      a howling mob.. and stand and fight if thinks he is right.
      Treat him gently, but do not cuddle him, because only the test of
      fire makes fine steel. Let him have the courage to be impatient.. Let
      him have the patience to be brave. Teach him always to have sublime
      faith in himself, because then he will have faith in humankind.
      This is a big order, but see what you can do. . He is such a fine
      little fellow my son!
      - Abraham Lincoln"

      Bijesh


      --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, Madhavi Daruwalla
      <madewarus@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Brijesh,
      > The kind of love i talk about has no words to describe it and i
      guess i did great injustice to you by even attempting to describe it.
      To answer the second question first- as humans we seem to think that
      we are in charge of the world. And i feel that this feeling gets
      transferred to dealing with our kids as well. How would you help a
      flower to grow, you will give it water , sunlight , put it a place
      where the soil is fertile and then step back and enjoy the flower
      bloom. Would you turn it twist it change it's location in the flower
      bed , no. I think that is what we are meant to do with our children.
      Unfortunately we are full of fear that our children may go up all
      wrong, or that we feel we know what is best for our child , and then
      we sit back and watch our child wither. We forget that our children
      are beings very different from us, they have come into this world to
      fulfill their own destiny , whatever it may be , not our destiny.
      They are thinking being and individauls in
      > their own rights, and all they need is soil, water and sunlight(
      we call it love, nurturing, caring, respect) and then we simply have
      to sit back and watch them grow and enjoy the process, no matter
      what happens, that is what we are meant to do. Mind you it is not
      easy and we all as parents have to struggle not to "control" our kids
      or draw the line between loving and holding on to our kids.
      >
      > To the first section, love is an awareness of being one with the
      universe( it is difficult to describe it) it is beyond the sensual,
      physical. I agree one need not love the garbage but one need not hate
      it as well. It is a by product of say vegetables, sure it smells and
      if it upsets you that much DO SOmething about it. Organise a clean up
      drive.
      > I love nature too but am stuck in the city but one has to
      realise that it is because of a choice I have made consciously. If
      the urge of backpacking through the woods is strong enough you will
      find a way to do it. We can't be passive beings . I sense that you
      are not , that you have some issues you feel strongly about and you
      do what you think best about them.
      >
      > It is wonderful that being a young person you are asking such
      questions because questions are what leads us towards our answers.
      Mind you my answers may be absolutely different from your but the
      great thing about life is that none of our answers are right or
      wrong, they are shaped by our experiences, and thought process at
      that point of our life. I think that by home schooling/unschooling we
      are trying for our kids to think and question life for themselves-
      find their own truths.
      >
      > Keep questioning and may you find the process lots of fun, that's
      living, that's life.
      >
      > M and M
      >
      >
      >
      > SUSAN SANDIVAGORE <callsusan@...> wrote:
      > dear madhavi,
      > yes i had not realized that the there could be a love between human
      and non
      > living thing, for example watching the sunrise,sunset, listing to
      the sound
      > of ocean, river, wind and sound of silent, seeing and watching
      different
      > things, feeling and anyother thing that we could feel through our
      five
      > senses. i thought those are pleasurable things, but yes even there
      there is
      > a feeling of love involve. i thoought the love can only exist
      between two
      > living things, but why not surely we also can fall into love with
      non living
      > thing. or can we.
      >
      > please if you can make me bit c
      > why do we feel that we need to own the things we like? is it
      love ?? parents
      > wants to their children to be like what they want? they want their
      childern
      > to do what they want? is this love??
      >
      > "well being oneness with the things aournd you? how can i feel this
      when i
      > am surrounded by garbage (=;. well i had that feeling before when i
      use to
      > go take a hike in the woods. yes i love it. i love every bit of it.
      now i am
      > starting to realize what exactly is living in the city like.
      >
      > thank you
      > bijesh
      >
      >
      > >From: Madhavi Daruwalla
      > >Reply-To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Guiding principle for education!
      > >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
      > >
      > >Dear Brijesh,
      > > Love is the feeling of oneness with all and everything around
      you. That
      > >is the highest form of love that we all as humans try and strive
      for- it is
      > >without boundaries, without fear, without exclusivity and with
      absolute
      > >inclusivity -it could be described as almost without emotion where
      one sees
      > >a connection with all and everything in this world animate and
      inanimate.
      > >That is true love. It is beyond the love of parents for children
      and vice
      > >versa and a partner for another, a person and his country etc etc.
      You
      > >could get a glimpse of it when you see abeautiful sunrise when you
      feel a
      > >part of it and yet you do not feel you want to own it or control
      it and you
      > >feel blessed being there in the presence of its beauty and you are
      aware
      > >that it will not last. If you can extend that feeling for
      everything
      > >include your children, your neighbours, animals , plants , rocks ,
      > >everything then you will become the worlds greatest "lover"and
      funny enough
      > >this love can never end as it
      > > connects you with the God, the creator, nature, whatever you
      believe in
      > >and lasts forever .
      > >
      > > M and M
      > >
      > >
      > >susan sandivigore wrote:
      > > surly ok i well you might love someone deeply but, your lover is
      he/
      > >she immortal???? or can he/ she change? according to the point of
      > >view i definately have right to change myself according to
      > >surrounding needs cant i? if a girl loves me deeply and ready to
      die
      > >for me but i dont love her. i dotn like her so what is next???
      > >
      > >secondly if you love someone that doesnt mean that you have contorl
      > >over her.if it is true love you can't contorl that person and that
      > >is not a true love. you cant make her love you for ever. I
      > >definately seen people changing. i dont want to get personal. well
      i
      > >am 23 years old and i am not a parent also. i havent yet understood
      > >the parent's love but i do love my parents, my siblings definately
      > >and my friends. its relation that has kept me alive till now... i
      > >dont know what true love is for me love is just a love.... and it
      is
      > >a great feeling i have....
      > >
      > >--- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, "Vedant Lath"
      > >wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Love can never be destroyed, if you know what I mean. Once one
      > >gets the
      > > > disease of love, it leaves the soul only after the soul dies. I
      > >mean true
      > > > love, not like the love of parents loving their children. (I
      don't
      > >know
      > > > about that; I am not a parent)
      > > >
      > > > Well I don't know if I agree much with you. It seems you are
      > >referring to
      > > > love like the love between of parents and their children. I am
      > >referring to
      > > > true love - like the love between a boy and a girl.
      > > >
      > > > On 7/28/06, SUSAN SANDIVAGORE wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hellooo once again everyone.... hope you are enjoying your
      > >life...
      > > > > yes i do agree that love doesnt just mean that boy loves a
      gils
      > >or get
      > > > > attaracted towards her for sex or passing time. love is much
      > >deeper
      > > > > concept
      > > > > and it is beyond definately beyond that. well form my personal
      > >experience
      > > > > and some book i read (sorry i couldnt remember the name of the
      > >book )it
      > > > > says
      > > > > "nothing last for ever" everything has its life span.
      > >everything that is
      > > > > created get destroyed. this is true for our feeling of love
      and
      > >our loved
      > > > > ones. love is dedication, as i said before seeing your loved
      > >ones happy,
      > > > > hepling them with their necessity for the life and being there
      > >when they
      > > > > needs you is love. in the book i read it says "Be content with
      > >what you
      > > > > have, but at the same time also be ready to know that it
      doesnt
      > >last for
      > > > > ever. Be prepared to loose them, so that when you loose them
      you
      > >dont feel
      > > > > much pain." things gets destroyed, people changes, people
      dies".
      > >it
      > > > > depends
      > > > > upon the enviroment they are living. we cannot contorl other
      > >people and
      > > > > make
      > > > > them love you for ever. that is not love.
      > > > >
      > > > > regards
      > > > > Bijesh
      > > > > >From: "Vedant Lath"
      > > > > >Reply-To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Re: Guiding principle for
      education!
      > > > > >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:07:10 +0530
      > > > > >
      > > > > >Love is more than just a feeling. It is not love when a boy
      > >just gets
      > > > > >attracted to a girl when he sees her, and forgets about her
      > >once she is
      > > > > >gone. In a way, it corrupts the mind. It may give the best
      > >pleasures of
      > > > > >life to a man or woman. It may also be the cause of the
      ruining
      > >of some
      > > > > >people's lifes. Love is not a general or temporary feeling.
      It
      > >is a
      > > > > >permanent one and cannot be easily changed. (I doubt if it
      can
      > >be
      > > > > changed,
      > > > > >though I do slightly believe it is possible). And yes, I too
      > >won't mind
      > > > > to
      > > > > >be enslaved myself for my life. It is something I would even
      > >die for.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >If we could solve life with simple logic, it wouldn't be as
      > >beautiful
      > > > > >and/or
      > > > > >surprising and/or depressing and/or unpredictable as it is
      now.
      > >But we
      > > > > >cannot generalise and change life. :-)
      > > > > >
      > > > > >(1+1=1)
      > > > > >
      > > > > >On 7/28/06, susan sandivigore wrote:
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >> First of all what is love? It is just a feeling, when you
      > >get
      > > > > >>attraccted towards someone. when you want to see that person
      > >more
      > > > > >>happy than yourself. support her every decision. you take
      care
      > >of
      > > > > >>her more than you yourself. you worry about her... and just
      > >let her
      > > > > >>be who she is. you feel happy, satisfied what is the logic
      > >behind
      > > > > >>that... well this is much more complicated than just adding
      > >2+2...i
      > > > > >>wish life and our feeling are that simple....where we could
      > >solve
      > > > > >>our entire problem with simple logic... but dont get me
      wrong
      > >all
      > > > > >>the problems we have starting from life till enviromental
      > >proble
      > > > > >>everything is created by us....we want more...we dont need
      > >more...
      > > > > >>why... more than hate greed is the opposite of love, when
      you
      > >wnat
      > > > > >>to be better... when you want to be compettitive.... well i
      > >dont
      > > > > >>know if i make any sense but i dont hesitate to say that we
      > >have
      > > > > >>stooped civilizing since we started industrilizing... these
      > >simple
      > > > > >>things like love, happyness, sadness has so much complicated
      > > > > >>meaning...and we are trying to define it... how can you
      define
      > >life
      > > > > >>in words because life is to live not to define in
      > >words....love is
      > > > > >>feeling we need to feel it... for me love is just a feeling
      > >and i
      > > > > >>dedicate my life to see them happy, i dont mind even i have
      to
      > > > > >>enslave myself for rest of my life... once we start caring
      > >about
      > > > > >>other i think the world would be much better place....
      > >selfishness
      > > > > >>we should get out of the feeling of "me myself and i".
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>just a thought
      > > > > >>Love all
      > > > > >>bijesh
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>--- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > >>"Vedant Lath"
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>wrote:
      > > > > >> >
      > > > > >> > In my opinion, there is *no* logic in love. none
      > >whatsoever. (it
      > > > > >>happens
      > > > > >> > when one doesn't want it to happen and what not)
      > > > > >> >
      > > > > >> > If love would have been logical, it wouldn't exactly be
      > >love,
      > > > > >>would it be?
      > > > > >> >
      > > > > >> > On 7/28/06, Clive Elwell wrote:
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > *Sorry, I do not follow what are asking.*
      > > > > >> > > **
      > > > > >> > > *But in any case, can one really approach love with
      logic?
      > >*
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > >> > > *From:* hsim95
      > > > > >> > > *To:* alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > >> > > *Sent:* Friday, July 28, 2006 1:01 AM
      > > > > >> > > *Subject:* [alt-ed-india] Re: Guiding principle for
      > >education!
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > Clive,
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > If "l" is not "i", how does that translate to "i is
      > >false"? In
      > > > > >>this
      > > > > >> > > case, l = love and i = ideas on love. Could you explain
      > >the
      > > > > >>logic
      > > > > >> > > behind this?
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > - Neela.
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > > --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > >>"Clive Elwell"
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >> > > wrote:
      > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > >> > > > In fact, to allow love to flower - love, not
      > >attachment - there
      > > > > >> > > does indeed have to be this "letting go". As we said,
      > >what has
      > > > > >>to be
      > > > > >> > > let go of is the false. Such as false ideas of love. In
      > >fact ALL
      > > > > >> > > ideas of love are false, because love is not an idea.
      > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > >> > > > So we have to let go of all ideas of love, because
      love
      > >is not
      > > > > >>a
      > > > > >> > > thing that can be held at all. It is not "ours" to
      hold.
      > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > >> > > > Attachment, jealousy, possessiveness,
      sentimentality -
      > >non of
      > > > > >>these
      > > > > >> > > are actually love, although they masquerade as love. As
      > >long as
      > > > > >>we
      > > > > >> > > hold on to these false "substitutes" for love, there
      can
      > >be no
      > > > > >>real
      > > > > >> > > love.
      > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > > >> > >
      > > > >
      > >
      >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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      > > > > >>home
      > > > > >> > > educating in India, and those who are considering doing
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      > > > > >> > vedant@
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      > > > > >> >
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      > > > > This mailing list is primarily for the use of families who are
      > >home
      > > > > educating in India, and those who are considering doing so.
      > >However, all
      > > > > those with a deep interest in serious education are welcome to
      > >participate.
      > > > > The list's intentions are to facilitate enquiry into
      fundamental
      > >educational
      > > > > questions, to learn together, to share, and to support those
      > >who are home
      > > > > educating.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > If you have a web-based subscription, you can learn more about
      > >the
      > > > > Alternative Education in India group, and view the archives,
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    • hsim95
      Eloquent words :)! ... you. That is the highest form of love that we all as humans try and strive for- it is without boundaries, without fear, without
      Message 54 of 54 , Aug 10, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Eloquent words :)!

        --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, Madhavi Daruwalla
        <madewarus@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Brijesh,
        > Love is the feeling of oneness with all and everything around
        you. That is the highest form of love that we all as humans try and
        strive for- it is without boundaries, without fear, without
        exclusivity and with absolute inclusivity -it could be described as
        almost without emotion where one sees a connection with all and
        everything in this world animate and inanimate. That is true love.
        It is beyond the love of parents for children and vice versa and a
        partner for another, a person and his country etc etc. You could get
        a glimpse of it when you see abeautiful sunrise when you feel a part
        of it and yet you do not feel you want to own it or control it and
        you feel blessed being there in the presence of its beauty and you
        are aware that it will not last. If you can extend that feeling for
        everything include your children, your neighbours, animals ,
        plants , rocks , everything then you will become the worlds
        greatest "lover"and funny enough this love can never end as it
        > connects you with the God, the creator, nature, whatever you
        believe in and lasts forever .
        >
        > M and M
        >
        >
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