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Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status

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  • <noufal@...>
    ... I think you re right. A common language is a useful thing when it comes to exchange of ideas. The internet has had a similar effect on societies these
    Message 1 of 14 , May 5, 2013
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      CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:

      > Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for
      > reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the
      > common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There
      > were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times
      > through Samskritam as defacto language.

      I think you're right. A common language is a useful thing when it comes
      to exchange of ideas. The internet has had a similar effect on societies
      these days. When a kid in India can talk to an adult in the US about a
      Korean pop song within days of it's release, you can't but marvel at the
      power of the network. It's cut across societies, languages and
      cultures.


      > So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics
      > researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words
      > that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away
      > from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily
      > life and language plays an integral role there.

      I think so but I have a much more fluid concept of culture. I see it as
      continuously evolving. Not some perfect thing that existed at some time
      which we get nostalgic about and try to go back to. Languages get
      replaced, ideas get replaced, new ideas come in, old ideas get
      modified. That living changing thing is culture. Atleast for me.


      [...]


      > Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever
      > suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are
      > more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for
      > or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge
      > we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a
      > puzzle.

      Yup. Takes all kinds to make a world. Thanks for your thoughts.

      [...]


      --
      Cordially,
      Noufal
      http://nibrahim.net.in
    • Viswanathan Vijaya
      My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or
      Message 2 of 14 , May 5, 2013
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        My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 

        Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.

        Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.

        Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.

        Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.

        my two cents
        Harih OM
        Vijaya Viswanathan

        विजया विश्वनाथन्

        On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
         

        Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

        Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

        Regards
        Krishnamurthi

        > From: noufal@...
        > To: cgkmurthi@...
        > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
        > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
        >
        > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
        >
        > > We knew that over 26 university
        > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
        > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
        > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
        > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
        > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
        > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
        > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
        >
        > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
        > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
        > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
        > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
        > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
        > than from school.
        >
        > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
        > formal education.
        >
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
        > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
        > > Ceremonies, etc.
        >
        > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
        > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
        > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
        > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
        > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
        >
        >
        > [...]
        >
        >
        > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
        > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
        > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
        > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
        > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
        > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
        > > Words on the right are indeed right !
        >
        > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
        > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
        > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
        > an opinion.
        >
        > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
        > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
        > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
        > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
        > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
        > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
        > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
        > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
        > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
        > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
        > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
        > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
        > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
        > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
        > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
        >
        > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
        > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
        > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
        > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
        >
        > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
        > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
        > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
        > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
        > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
        > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
        >
        >
        > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
        > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
        > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
        >
        > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
        > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
        > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
        > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
        > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
        >
        > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
        > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
        > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
        >
        > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
        > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
        > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
        > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
        > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
        > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
        >
        > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
        > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
        > this is just a feeling.
        >
        > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
        > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
        > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
        > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
        > > just a couple of decades itself.
        >
        > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
        > language.
        >
        > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
        > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
        > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
        > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
        > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
        > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
        > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
        > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
        >
        > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
        > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
        > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
        > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
        >
        > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
        > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
        > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
        > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
        > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
        > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
        > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
        > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
        > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
        > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
        > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
        > language" is better than touting a single one.
        >
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > --
        > Cordially,
        > Noufal
        > http://nibrahim.net.in




        --
        विजया विश्वनाथन्
      • Shishir Kant Misra
        Vijay, A good efforts that. If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we
        Message 3 of 14 , May 5, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Vijay,
          A good efforts that.
          If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we north Indians call is that] I had posted earlier that I stopped studying Sanskrit about 55 yrs ago but when I started to learn German,in 1965, I found its great similarity with sanskrit. Perhaps my knowledge of Sanskrit still fresh then was very helpful.

          Keep Smiling not becuz of something,
          But INSPITE of every thing
          Shishir
          ( Shishir Kant Misra )

          --- On Sun, 5/5/13, Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...> wrote:

          From: Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...>
          Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
          To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, 5 May, 2013, 11:21 AM

           
          My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 
          Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.
          Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.
          Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.
          Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.
          my two cents
          Harih OM
          Vijaya Viswanathan

          विजया विश्वनाथन्

          On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
           
          Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

          Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

          Regards
          Krishnamurthi

          > From: noufal@...
          > To: cgkmurthi@...
          > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
          > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
          >
          > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
          >
          > > We knew that over 26 university
          > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
          > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
          > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
          > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
          > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
          > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
          > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
          >
          > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
          > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
          > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
          > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
          > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
          > than from school.
          >
          > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
          > formal education.
          >
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
          > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
          > > Ceremonies, etc.
          >
          > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
          > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
          > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
          > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
          > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
          >
          >
          > [...]
          >
          >
          > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
          > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
          > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
          > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
          > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
          > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
          > > Words on the right are indeed right !
          >
          > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
          > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
          > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
          > an opinion.
          >
          > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
          > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
          > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
          > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
          > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
          > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
          > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
          > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
          > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
          > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
          > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
          > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
          > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
          > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
          > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
          >
          > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
          > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
          > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
          > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
          >
          > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
          > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
          > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
          > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
          > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
          > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
          >
          >
          > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
          > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
          > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
          >
          > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
          > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
          > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
          > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
          > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
          >
          > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
          > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
          > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
          >
          > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
          > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
          > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
          > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
          > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
          > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
          >
          > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
          > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
          > this is just a feeling.
          >
          > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
          > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
          > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
          > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
          > > just a couple of decades itself.
          >
          > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
          > language.
          >
          > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
          > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
          > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
          > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
          > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
          > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
          > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
          > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
          >
          > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
          > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
          > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
          > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
          >
          > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
          > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
          > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
          > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
          > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
          > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
          > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
          > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
          > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
          > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
          > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
          > language" is better than touting a single one.
          >
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > --
          > Cordially,
          > Noufal
          > http://nibrahim.net.in



          --
          विजया विश्वनाथन्
        • विनीश गुप्ता Vinish
          This recent article in *The Hindu* should serve to provide much needed edification to certain members of this list:
          Message 4 of 14 , May 27, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            This recent article in The Hindu should serve to provide much needed edification to certain members of this list:
            http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/stories-they-tell-about-languages/article4747023.ece

            Best.

            Vinish



            --
            Centre for Holistic Learning
            Jeevanshala Trust,
            "Nagalaxmi", Hulekal Village,
            Sirsi-581336. Karnataka. India.
            Tel: 08283-240147.
            Cell: +91.8762071817

            http://www.jeevanshala.org/



            On 5 May 2013 20:48, Shishir Kant Misra <eskaym@...> wrote:
             

            Vijay,
            A good efforts that.
            If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we north Indians call is that] I had posted earlier that I stopped studying Sanskrit about 55 yrs ago but when I started to learn German,in 1965, I found its great similarity with sanskrit. Perhaps my knowledge of Sanskrit still fresh then was very helpful.


            Keep Smiling not becuz of something,
            But INSPITE of every thing
            Shishir
            ( Shishir Kant Misra )

            --- On Sun, 5/5/13, Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...> wrote:

            From: Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...>

            Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
            To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, 5 May, 2013, 11:21 AM


             
            My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 
            Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.
            Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.
            Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.
            Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.
            my two cents
            Harih OM
            Vijaya Viswanathan

            विजया विश्वनाथन्

            On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
             
            Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

            Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

            Regards
            Krishnamurthi

            > From: noufal@...
            > To: cgkmurthi@...
            > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
            > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
            >
            > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
            >
            > > We knew that over 26 university
            > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
            > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
            > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
            > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
            > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
            > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
            > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
            >
            > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
            > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
            > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
            > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
            > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
            > than from school.
            >
            > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
            > formal education.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
            > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
            > > Ceremonies, etc.
            >
            > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
            > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
            > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
            > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
            > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            >
            > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
            > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
            > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
            > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
            > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
            > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
            > > Words on the right are indeed right !
            >
            > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
            > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
            > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
            > an opinion.
            >
            > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
            > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
            > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
            > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
            > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
            > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
            > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
            > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
            > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
            > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
            > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
            > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
            > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
            > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
            > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
            >
            > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
            > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
            > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
            > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
            >
            > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
            > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
            > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
            > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
            > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
            > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
            >
            >
            > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
            > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
            > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
            >
            > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
            > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
            > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
            > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
            > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
            >
            > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
            > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
            > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
            >
            > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
            > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
            > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
            > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
            > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
            > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
            >
            > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
            > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
            > this is just a feeling.
            >
            > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
            > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
            > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
            > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
            > > just a couple of decades itself.
            >
            > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
            > language.
            >
            > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
            > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
            > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
            > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
            > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
            > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
            > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
            > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
            >
            > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
            > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
            > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
            > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
            >
            > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
            > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
            > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
            > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
            > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
            > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
            > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
            > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
            > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
            > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
            > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
            > language" is better than touting a single one.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > --
            > Cordially,
            > Noufal
            > http://nibrahim.net.in



            --
            विजया विश्वनाथन्



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